Stuart Armstrong

[benjii]

I'd be fucking fuming if I was him.

Imagine watching Elyounoussi and Armstrong getting picked ahead of you every week. 

People say he's not as good as he used to be but he's way better, still, than either of those.

[stknowle]

25 minutes ago, benjii said:

I'd be fucking fuming if I was him.

 

I'm fucking fuming and I'm not him.

[S-Clarke]

We have very poor quality in attack, I'd argue Stu Armstrong and Aribo are the only premier league quality we have in those positions, yet they're not shoe-ins. It's a weird one, can only think it's a fitness thing.

[revolution saint]

1 hour ago, benjii said:

I'd be fucking fuming if I was him.

Imagine watching Elyounoussi and Armstrong getting picked ahead of you every week. 

People say he's not as good as he used to be but he's way better, still, than either of those.

Completely agree. Last night he should have played. If Ralph didn’t fancy AMN as part of a three then S Armstrong could have done it easily and he should absolutely be starting instead of Moi.
There’s an interview with Stu on YouTube on the saints channel where he talks about Ralph and how Ralph didn’t like him when he first joined. I think that’s still the case and Ralph always seems to be looking for a reason not to play him. 

[saintscottofthenortham]

25 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Completely agree. Last night he should have played. If Ralph didn’t fancy AMN as part of a three then S Armstrong could have done it easily and he should absolutely be starting instead of Moi.
There’s an interview with Stu on YouTube on the saints channel where he talks about Ralph and how Ralph didn’t like him when he first joined. I think that’s still the case and Ralph always seems to be looking for a reason not to play him. 

 

[trousers]

2 hours ago, revolution saint said:

Ralph always seems to be looking for a reason not to play him. 

Stu was pretty much the first player on Ralph's team sheet in our halcyon year of 2020, and there was that curious long running stat where we never lost when he played. I wonder why he's now seemingly out of favour? (I know I keep mentioning this but he never seemed the same after that bout of covid he had....)

Edited 17 September, 2022 by trousers

[revolution saint]

3 minutes ago, trousers said:

Stu was pretty much the first player on Ralph's team sheet in our halcyon year of 2020, and there was that curious long running stat where we never lost when he played. I wonder why he's now seemingly out of favour? (I know I keep mentioning this but he never seemed the same after that bout of covid he had....)

Ralph seems to have players that he falls out with regularly.  Bertrand seemed to be one and Adams seems to be another (alongside S Armstrong).  Hard to know what it is that he's got against them.  Feels to me like he drops them up until the point where he absolutely has to play them because things are so bad he doesn't have much choice.  I guess there's two possible reasons - one is he rates Moi more than he does S Armstrong and the other is that they've had a disagreement.  Neither of those reflect well on Ralph.

There's been rumours around S Armstrong leaving for a couple of seasons now.  Wouldn't surprise me if there's a grain of truth in them.

[Dusic]

In a central position I think he sometimes gives the ball away too much and in dangerous areas.

In a wide position, I would pick him considering our other options.

Personally, now we have a decent CB pairing I think we should go back to 4-2-2-2 because I think we need to use 2 strikers in combination to be more of a threat. 

In a 4-3-3 you need one CM thats a goal threat and at least one of the wide players to be a goal threat (Zaha, Barnes, ASM style). We have none.

Adams is a good striker but against two CBs its really tough. Give him a partner and all of a sudden the whole team has more options and is less reliant on individual quality - which we don't have.

[sadoldgit]

3 hours ago, revolution saint said:

Ralph seems to have players that he falls out with regularly.  Bertrand seemed to be one and Adams seems to be another (alongside S Armstrong).  Hard to know what it is that he's got against them.  Feels to me like he drops them up until the point where he absolutely has to play them because things are so bad he doesn't have much choice.  I guess there's two possible reasons - one is he rates Moi more than he does S Armstrong and the other is that they've had a disagreement.  Neither of those reflect well on Ralph.

There's been rumours around S Armstrong leaving for a couple of seasons now.  Wouldn't surprise me if there's a grain of truth in them.

You seem to take these rumours as fact. Have we actually had any evidence of these multiple alleged falling outs?

It is now a squad game. If you wanted to go up a gear in the second half would you rather bring on Ely or Stuey? There are many tactical reasons for playing or not playing players from the start. For example, AMN was apparently left out of the squad yesterday because he is still learning the way we want him to play. I read on another forum that he had been left out because Ralph didn’t like his attitude and he needed to be taught a lesson. Which is the more likely do you think? You say that there have been rumours about Armstrong leaving but guess what, he is still here and still playing. 

[revolution saint]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

You seem to take these rumours as fact. Have we actually had any evidence of these multiple alleged falling outs?

It is now a squad game. If you wanted to go up a gear in the second half would you rather bring on Ely or Stuey? There are many tactical reasons for playing or not playing players from the start. For example, AMN was apparently left out of the squad yesterday because he is still learning the way we want him to play. I read on another forum that he had been left out because Ralph didn’t like his attitude and he needed to be taught a lesson. Which is the more likely do you think? You say that there have been rumours about Armstrong leaving but guess what, he is still here and still playing. 

What rumours have I taken as fact?  I've listed instances of players dropped when we didn't have either fitter or better players to take their place.  I've surmised that was because he had fallen out with them, the alternative being that he actually genuinely believes , in this instance, that Moi is a better player than S Armstrong.  If that's the case then he really has a problem.  As for it being a squad game?  That's correct and if it had worked then fine but it didn't, and hasn't on more than one occasion.  Feel free to defend his current record of what 3 wins in 19 games is it?

Do you believe if AMN really isn't up to speed with the way Ralph wants to play him then he should be dropped completely from the squad when we're crying out for another midfield presence.  Do you actually think that's the best way to treat him.  To freeze him out and to criticise him in a presser?  The lad has played at this level and far higher - he's played for England and yet he really doesn't make a squad that can contain a burnt out Walcott.  That, in my opinion, isn't going to get the best out of him.

I did mention rumours of S Armstrong leaving and said I wouldn't be surprised if there was a grain of truth in them.  That's not taking it as fact at all. 

I think I made it pretty clear these were opinions - you don't have to agree with them and that's fine but don't wilfully misconstrue the arguments I'm making. 

Edited 17 September, 2022 by revolution saint

[saintant]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

You seem to take these rumours as fact. Have we actually had any evidence of these multiple alleged falling outs?

It is now a squad game. If you wanted to go up a gear in the second half would you rather bring on Ely or Stuey? There are many tactical reasons for playing or not playing players from the start. For example, AMN was apparently left out of the squad yesterday because he is still learning the way we want him to play. I read on another forum that he had been left out because Ralph didn’t like his attitude and he needed to be taught a lesson. Which is the more likely do you think? You say that there have been rumours about Armstrong leaving but guess what, he is still here and still playing. 

I don't get all this sudden idea that now 5 subs can be used it is preferable not to start your best eleven, that it is somehow more advantageous to have a few of your better players sitting watching from the bench so you can bring them on later - what, when you are chasing the game? Talk about putting the cart before the horse! Pick your best team from the start, take the game to the opposition and for me that gives you far more chance of winning.  Stick the best of the rest on the bench and use them as and when for injuries, tiredness or as a tactical switch. 

[VectisSaint]

10 hours ago, saintant said:

I don't get all this sudden idea that now 5 subs can be used it is preferable not to start your best eleven, that it is somehow more advantageous to have a few of your better players sitting watching from the bench so you can bring them on later - what, when you are chasing the game? Talk about putting the cart before the horse! Pick your best team from the start, take the game to the opposition and for me that gives you far more chance of winning.  Stick the best of the rest on the bench and use them as and when for injuries, tiredness or as a tactical switch. 

It is clearly the tactics that Ralph and his team are employing, and there is evidence other teams are doing the same. We used to go hell for leather from the start, get a goal and then get beaten, hence we are top of the points dropped from winning positions. Now the game plan is to keep it tight for the first half, with the possibility of a goal and then change it up with attacking players after half time, and to some extent it has worked (we were actually top of the most points won from losing positions table). Trouble is without a solid midfield since Lavia got crocked we are a shambles and don't get the service to the attackers to make the difference. I don't think there is any issue between Ralph and Stu, just Stu doing what he is asked, but I think it will change soon as it clearly isn't working at the moment. But there is no doubt that 5 subs has brought a new dynamic to team selection and tactics and managers, not just Ralph, are still working out how best to exploit it.

[saintant]

1 hour ago, VectisSaint said:

It is clearly the tactics that Ralph and his team are employing, and there is evidence other teams are doing the same. We used to go hell for leather from the start, get a goal and then get beaten, hence we are top of the points dropped from winning positions. Now the game plan is to keep it tight for the first half, with the possibility of a goal and then change it up with attacking players after half time, and to some extent it has worked (we were actually top of the most points won from losing positions table). Trouble is without a solid midfield since Lavia got crocked we are a shambles and don't get the service to the attackers to make the difference. I don't think there is any issue between Ralph and Stu, just Stu doing what he is asked, but I think it will change soon as it clearly isn't working at the moment. But there is no doubt that 5 subs has brought a new dynamic to team selection and tactics and managers, not just Ralph, are still working out how best to exploit it.

Problem with keeping it tight for the first half is that we are not good enough defensively to do that and usually concede. Stats show that if we are behind at half time we never win, someone else posted that it's something over a hundred games since we've come back to win after trailing at half time. I don't know if that is accurate but it does feel like an age since we reversed a half time deficit. To me we are always better if we set out to make a fast start and take the game to our opponents from the first whistle. We have never been much of a side that is able to start slowly and build up a head of steam. I'm never optimistic when we kick off with a load of sideways, backwards passing which is more about keeping possession than actually taking a few risks and trying to hurt the opposition - it rarely ends well for us. Better to have a right go from the start and get on the front foot.

[VectisSaint]

50 minutes ago, saintant said:

Problem with keeping it tight for the first half is that we are not good enough defensively to do that and usually concede. Stats show that if we are behind at half time we never win, someone else posted that it's something over a hundred games since we've come back to win after trailing at half time. I don't know if that is accurate but it does feel like an age since we reversed a half time deficit. To me we are always better if we set out to make a fast start and take the game to our opponents from the first whistle. We have never been much of a side that is able to start slowly and build up a head of steam. I'm never optimistic when we kick off with a load of sideways, backwards passing which is more about keeping possession than actually taking a few risks and trying to hurt the opposition - it rarely ends well for us. Better to have a right go from the start and get on the front foot.

I didn't say that I agreed with the tactics, merely that this appears to be what has been happening in most games so far this season. Fact is that all 7 points we have gained this season we have come from behind.  Every other game we have lost (also from behind of course). In the past we so often lost having gone in front usually because Ralph had no idea how to protect a lead, it seems logical to me that Ralph (with his new staff) has sought to address this, but we don't have the players to do it, especially with Lavia out. I don't think anyone has really realised what a huge loss he has been coupled with Oriol's crazy departure.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Stuey won a free kick at the end following an awful touch yesterday. I feel like everyone was infected by the uselessness

[JRM]

20 hours ago, trousers said:

Stu was pretty much the first player on Ralph's team sheet in our halcyon year of 2020, and there was that curious long running stat where we never lost when he played. I wonder why he's now seemingly out of favour? (I know I keep mentioning this but he never seemed the same after that bout of covid he had....)

Not sure if it was "we never lost when he played " more of "we've only won when he has played", I think that's still the case going back to 2019. 

[S-Clarke]

2 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Stuey won a free kick at the end following an awful touch yesterday. I feel like everyone was infected by the uselessness

This is what we saw from everyone on Friday, the first touch from everyone was so, so poor. The two basic principles of football at any level - touch and pass, we couldn't do anything. It was weird, it's like everyone of them forgot the basics. 

Still 2 days on I can't remember a worse attempt at playing football from any team at this level. I noticed KWP coming out and saying ''at least it was only 1'' - give me strength, if we're taking that as a positive in a game like that against a team like that then we should just liquidate.

Edited 18 September, 2022 by S-Clarke

[sadoldgit]

21 hours ago, revolution saint said:

Ralph seems to have players that he falls out with regularly.  Bertrand seemed to be one and Adams seems to be another (alongside S Armstrong).  Hard to know what it is that he's got against them.  Feels to me like he drops them up until the point where he absolutely has to play them because things are so bad he doesn't have much choice.  I guess there's two possible reasons - one is he rates Moi more than he does S Armstrong and the other is that they've had a disagreement.  Neither of those reflect well on Ralph.

There's been rumours around S Armstrong leaving for a couple of seasons now.  Wouldn't surprise me if there's a grain of truth in them.

“Wilfully misconstrue?” With all due respect if you go back and read your own words it would appear that you are quite happy to accept unsubstantiated gossip as fact. You are now turning something else into a negative. The manager says that he and the coaching staff (I assume) don’t believe that AMN is ready to start in our system now yet according to you he has been frozen out and criticised? Hmmm. Who to believe? The manager or someone with an anti manager agenda I’m an Internet forum. Without any evidence to the contrary I am prepared to believe that he hasn’t been frozen out and will be brought back when ready. 
 

As for the 5 sub rule. Players used to be held back in case of injuries later in the game. With 5 subs you can now make tactical changes earlier while still having the resources to cover late injuries from the bench.

[revolution saint]

3 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

“Wilfully misconstrue?” With all due respect if you go back and read your own words it would appear that you are quite happy to accept unsubstantiated gossip as fact. You are now turning something else into a negative. The manager says that he and the coaching staff (I assume) don’t believe that AMN is ready to start in our system now yet according to you he has been frozen out and criticised? Hmmm. Who to believe? The manager or someone with an anti manager agenda I’m an Internet forum. Without any evidence to the contrary I am prepared to believe that he hasn’t been frozen out and will be brought back when ready. 
 

As for the 5 sub rule. Players used to be held back in case of injuries later in the game. With 5 subs you can now make tactical changes earlier while still having the resources to cover late injuries from the bench.

At no point have I accepted unsubstantiated gossip as fact.  I've commented and speculated on it.  It's a forum and that's what we do - I shouldn't need to explain that and you're free to disagree.  

As for anti-manager agenda - find a post I made criticising him before this pre-season.  I didn't.  I've had enough now and the reasons are blatantly obvious.  If that's anti-manager I don't really care.

[Dr Who?]

Love Stuart Armstrong, my favourite Saints player. His work is under rated. He can also score goals from midfield. Seems we do not want to score goals. 2 shots are target in 180 minutes. 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Dr Who? said:

Love Stuart Armstrong, my favourite Saints player. His work is under rated. He can also score goals from midfield. Seems we do not want to score goals. 2 shots are target in 180 minutes. 

Unfortunately I would think in Ralph's eyes he is a bit of a maverick because he'll try to carry the ball, take players on and sometimes roam around and vacate his position. Ralph is happier with players like Elyounoussi who will obey his every instruction down to the last detail. It's why we are so short of creativity as he does not tolerate straying from his ridiculous playbook.

[East Kent Saint]

10 hours ago, saintant said:

Unfortunately I would think in Ralph's eyes he is a bit of a maverick because he'll try to carry the ball, take players on and sometimes roam around and vacate his position. Ralph is happier with players like Elyounoussi who will obey his every instruction down to the last detail. It's why we are so short of creativity as he does not tolerate straying from his ridiculous playbook.

So Ralph is the new Puel , we're doomed !

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Another player who has regressed under RH. The list grows. 

[danjosaint]

30 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Another player who has regressed under RH. The list grows. 

How day u say that, look how KWP has come on, nothing to do with the fact he's now getting game time something he didnt really get at spurs

[sadoldgit]

14 hours ago, Dr Who? said:

Love Stuart Armstrong, my favourite Saints player. His work is under rated. He can also score goals from midfield. Seems we do not want to score goals. 2 shots are target in 180 minutes. 

I like him as a player too, but as someone else said, he hasn’t been the same since he had covid and he had gone from being one of the first names on the team sheet to not getting regular starts because he isn’t performing at the same level. All this nonsense about personality clashes is just that. If Stuey was putting in the performances he did 2 seasons ago he would start. The same happened with Romeu. Once his legs started to go he was no longer a guaranteed starter.

Whatever we think of Ralph’s team selections he clearly wants to win football matches. The Villa game was strange in that pretty much the whole team seemed to have forgotten how to pass and tackle. You could tell by the expression on his face what he thought of it. As much as some people are desperate to pin every bit of blame on him, these are very highly paid professional footballers and need to take responsibility for their own performances. Very few of them performed on Friday night. It happens to the best. There are times when teams like City and Liverpool have looked rubbish too.

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 hours ago, East Kent Saint said:

So Ralph is the new Puel , 

If only…..

[Give it to Ron]

26 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

If only…..

Well we hardly score now so something in common….except we don’t do cleans sheets.

[sadoldgit]

16 hours ago, revolution saint said:

At no point have I accepted unsubstantiated gossip as fact.  I've commented and speculated on it.  It's a forum and that's what we do - I shouldn't need to explain that and you're free to disagree.  

As for anti-manager agenda - find a post I made criticising him before this pre-season.  I didn't.  I've had enough now and the reasons are blatantly obvious.  If that's anti-manager I don't really care.

When you use the phrase “it seems” you give unsubstantiated rumours (of which 95% plus on social media are rubbish) credence. The way you have framed your comments you make it sound as though these rumours are facts. You state that AMN has been frozen out. That is not speculation. That is you stating it as a fact. As for having an anti manager agenda, when does it matter when it started? An agenda is an agenda. You are using rumours to support your agenda. I’m sure none of us are happy about the performance last Friday but, at the end of the day, we are an average EPL team sitting in mid table. I understand your need to find something or someone to blame for your frustration, but repeating unsubstantiated rumours as if they have some substance does nothing to help the situation. Other people read it and repeat it (as you are doing now) and before you know it, it becomes fact. Did we lose on Friday because Ralph has allegedly fallen out with Stuart Armstrong? No. We lost because the team as a whole seemed to forget how to play football. Apart from the Spurs game, we haven’t played badly this season until the Villa game. Losing Lavia has proved to be a massive lose to the way we play. That has nothing to do with Ralph falling out with the list of players you provided us with. You are perfectly entitled to speculate as we all are, but if he was the terrible man manager that you speculate that he is, how on earth did we manage to find ourselves at the top of the EPL and put together some great runs, playing some fantastic football and why is he still employed by the club?

our problem is that we struggle with inconsistency. We can look like world beaters at times and dreadful at others, sometimes in the same games. Is that down to Ralph allegedly falling out with players or down to the calibre of player we have? For a couple of games Che looked great. Against Wolves he finished like a park player. Ralph’s fault? Ely was excellent against Chelsea but ineffective against Villa. Due to a falling out with Ralph? JWP has been one of our most constant performers over the last few years and has signed a new contract to stay here when he could have gone elsewhere (which would indicate that he is happy to play under the manager). He looked dreadful on Friday. 
 

Look on the bright side. We have both Lavia (who looks a real gem) and Tino to come back. We have a number of bright young players on the books (assuming Ralph doesn’t fall out with them and they all turn to crap 😉)and we are not Leicester. We have the majority of the season ahead of us and, I speculate, that we won’t play as badly again as we did against Villa.

[revolution saint]

7 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

When you use the phrase “it seems” you give unsubstantiated rumours (of which 95% plus on social media are rubbish) credence. The way you have framed your comments you make it sound as though these rumours are facts. You state that AMN has been frozen out. That is not speculation. That is you stating it as a fact. As for having an anti manager agenda, when does it matter when it started? An agenda is an agenda. You are using rumours to support your agenda. I’m sure none of us are happy about the performance last Friday but, at the end of the day, we are an average EPL team sitting in mid table. I understand your need to find something or someone to blame for your frustration, but repeating unsubstantiated rumours as if they have some substance does nothing to help the situation. Other people read it and repeat it (as you are doing now) and before you know it, it becomes fact. Did we lose on Friday because Ralph has allegedly fallen out with Stuart Armstrong? No. We lost because the team as a whole seemed to forget how to play football. Apart from the Spurs game, we haven’t played badly this season until the Villa game. Losing Lavia has proved to be a massive lose to the way we play. That has nothing to do with Ralph falling out with the list of players you provided us with. You are perfectly entitled to speculate as we all are, but if he was the terrible man manager that you speculate that he is, how on earth did we manage to find ourselves at the top of the EPL and put together some great runs, playing some fantastic football and why is he still employed by the club?

our problem is that we struggle with inconsistency. We can look like world beaters at times and dreadful at others, sometimes in the same games. Is that down to Ralph allegedly falling out with players or down to the calibre of player we have? For a couple of games Che looked great. Against Wolves he finished like a park player. Ralph’s fault? Ely was excellent against Chelsea but ineffective against Villa. Due to a falling out with Ralph? JWP has been one of our most constant performers over the last few years and has signed a new contract to stay here when he could have gone elsewhere (which would indicate that he is happy to play under the manager). He looked dreadful on Friday. 
 

Look on the bright side. We have both Lavia (who looks a real gem) and Tino to come back. We have a number of bright young players on the books (assuming Ralph doesn’t fall out with them and they all turn to crap 😉)and we are not Leicester. We have the majority of the season ahead of us and, I speculate, that we won’t play as badly again as we did against Villa.

Too long did not read.  Give it a rest though you interminable bore.

[Gurj]

On 18/09/2022 at 03:17, revolution saint said:

What rumours have I taken as fact?  I've listed instances of players dropped when we didn't have either fitter or better players to take their place.  I've surmised that was because he had fallen out with them, the alternative being that he actually genuinely believes , in this instance, that Moi is a better player than S Armstrong.  If that's the case then he really has a problem.  As for it being a squad game?  That's correct and if it had worked then fine but it didn't, and hasn't on more than one occasion.  Feel free to defend his current record of what 3 wins in 19 games is it?

Do you believe if AMN really isn't up to speed with the way Ralph wants to play him then he should be dropped completely from the squad when we're crying out for another midfield presence.  Do you actually think that's the best way to treat him.  To freeze him out and to criticise him in a presser?  The lad has played at this level and far higher - he's played for England and yet he really doesn't make a squad that can contain a burnt out Walcott.  That, in my opinion, isn't going to get the best out of him.

I did mention rumours of S Armstrong leaving and said I wouldn't be surprised if there was a grain of truth in them.  That's not taking it as fact at all. 

I think I made it pretty clear these were opinions - you don't have to agree with them and that's fine but don't wilfully misconstrue the arguments I'm making. 

It's all he ever does, on here and TUI. Real nutcase that one. Anyway, on topic...i think there can be no doubt in any normal person's head that there is an issue between RH and Stu Armstrong. Nothing odd about that. It's very believable and happens in football all the time. All managers have their favorites and those they don't like. Ralph has clearly lost it with his balmy team selections and his post-match press conferences berating everyone as being at fault. His time has come. He is finished here, and should be removed unless we want to play Pompey next season. 

[david in sweden]

10 hours ago, East Kent Saint said:

So Ralph is the new Puel , we're doomed !

Doomed ? ...you mean at the thought of only finishing 8th this season.. as did Puel ?

[david in sweden]

Most of us on here seem to give credit to Stu for his past performances, but I ask myself if he is 100% fit ?,

or even good enough to play in the Prem. for 70 minutes, instead of coming on after 70 mins when all is lost.

30 is a dangerous age for Prem. players.   Stu doesn't seem to have the stamina that we saw from Steven Davis

and is nowhere near as mobile as JWP in midfield.     Doesn't feel right to me. 

Not sure when his contract runs out, but no bets that he will be moving back (home)... north of  the border.

[East Kent Saint]

1 hour ago, david in sweden said:

Doomed ? ...you mean at the thought of only finishing 8th this season.. as did Puel ?

I mean that the players have been instructed to play in a certain way which seems to involve playing safe , sideways and back etc rather than risking going forward at pace. Players out of position , playing a system that they don’t seem to have much faith in . Driving the fans to despair , rarely scoring goals . Not having settled team , pointing the finger at the players when we lose again.

[saintant]

1 hour ago, david in sweden said:

Most of us on here seem to give credit to Stu for his past performances, but I ask myself if he is 100% fit ?,

or even good enough to play in the Prem. for 70 minutes, instead of coming on after 70 mins when all is lost.

30 is a dangerous age for Prem. players.   Stu doesn't seem to have the stamina that we saw from Steven Davis

and is nowhere near as mobile as JWP in midfield.     Doesn't feel right to me. 

Not sure when his contract runs out, but no bets that he will be moving back (home)... north of  the border.

JWP is mobile in midfield - hadn't noticed.

[West end Saints]

Maybe he isn't that great? 

10 assists for us in something like 5 years? No great for an attacking midfielder, pretty poor. 

[david in sweden]

14 hours ago, East Kent Saint said:

I mean that the players have been instructed to play in a certain way which seems to involve playing safe , sideways and back etc rather than risking going forward at pace. Players out of position , playing a system that they don’t seem to have much faith in . Driving the fans to despair , rarely scoring goals . Not having settled team , pointing the finger at the players when we lose again.

Several points here. 

Everyone has had to learn 4-2-2-2  and it has taken some a bit longer, and one or two are still struggling a bit, but sometimes we need a 5-3-2.

Many teams change formation during a game. and it not always as obvious to players, or staff in the dug out - as it is for spectators /TV viewers.

I also think the sideways / back passing is pretty boring but it does work for many teams who retain possession and get a breather at the same time.

 

Naturally some players are played in their best position to good effect, but I'm all in favour of trying alternatives and many were critical seeing 

KWP suddenly starting at LB, but now he looks just as good on either flank.  Likewise, many of us were disappointed at Djenepo last season,

but he does seem to have a new lease of life in his new attacking / defensive role.  If  Adam A. was bought to replace Ings, his move to the

left wing reduces his effectiveness, but he can't be in two places at the same time.  

Somehow Stu Armstrong has been tried in several positions and doesn't seem too happy in any of them.

 

Now that we practically have half of a new team, the process of gelling / moulding a new side will take a bit of time, and RH needs to get it right PDQ

but i don't feel it's wrong to experiment with different players / formations but not every player is a University graduate, or understands tactics from birth.

IMHO our biggest problem is the failure to buy a new striker in the summer. It wa right not to squander £15-20 million on a fifth choice target, but we 

need to see a new face up front after the New Year as Ché Adams is taking a battering every game, and is also expected to score every game.  

 

[saintant]

3 hours ago, david in sweden said:

Several points here. 

Everyone has had to learn 4-2-2-2  and it has taken some a bit longer, and one or two are still struggling a bit, but sometimes we need a 5-3-2.

Many teams change formation during a game. and it not always as obvious to players, or staff in the dug out - as it is for spectators /TV viewers.

I also think the sideways / back passing is pretty boring but it does work for many teams who retain possession and get a breather at the same time.

 

Naturally some players are played in their best position to good effect, but I'm all in favour of trying alternatives and many were critical seeing 

KWP suddenly starting at LB, but now he looks just as good on either flank.  Likewise, many of us were disappointed at Djenepo last season,

but he does seem to have a new lease of life in his new attacking / defensive role.  If  Adam A. was bought to replace Ings, his move to the

left wing reduces his effectiveness, but he can't be in two places at the same time.  

Somehow Stu Armstrong has been tried in several positions and doesn't seem too happy in any of them.

 

Now that we practically have half of a new team, the process of gelling / moulding a new side will take a bit of time, and RH needs to get it right PDQ

but i don't feel it's wrong to experiment with different players / formations but not every player is a University graduate, or understands tactics from birth.

IMHO our biggest problem is the failure to buy a new striker in the summer. It wa right not to squander £15-20 million on a fifth choice target, but we 

need to see a new face up front after the New Year as Ché Adams is taking a battering every game, and is also expected to score every game.  

 

Che Adams only takes a battering in games like Villa where we constantly launch the ball forward from our own half and expect him to win aerial battles against huge centre backs. Play a bit of football with fast attacking build ups on the ground, getting between the lines, moving off the ball and he is just fine - his hold up play and passing when we do this is excellent. It's the tactics that are wrong not Che Adams getting battered because the latter is all down to Ralph.

[Yozzman]

18 hours ago, saintant said:

JWP is mobile in midfield - hadn't noticed.

You can accuse JWP of many things but not being mobile isn't one of them. I suggest you open your eyes.

Across the entire season, Southampton workhorse James Ward-Prowse has covered a league-topping 334.6km - the equivalent of running eight marathons or the distance from St Mary's Stadium to Paris as the crow flies.

West Ham's Declan Rice is behind his fellow England international on 317.2km, followed by Abdoulaye Doucoure (309.6km), Jack Cork (304.3km), Roberto Firmino (301.9km), James McCarthur (297.3km) and Ashley Westwood (296.8km).

Edited 20 September, 2022 by Yozzman

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Yozzman said:

You can accuse JWP of many things but not being mobile isn't one of them. I suggest you open your eyes.

Across the entire season, Southampton workhorse James Ward-Prowse has covered a league-topping 334.6km - the equivalent of running eight marathons or the distance from St Mary's Stadium to Paris as the crow flies.

West Ham's Declan Rice is behind his fellow England international on 317.2km, followed by Abdoulaye Doucoure (309.6km), Jack Cork (304.3km), Roberto Firmino (301.9km), James McCarthur (297.3km) and Ashley Westwood (296.8km).

I think we're looking at two different meanings of the word mobile. I accept that he covers a lot of ground and has a fantastic engine. However, I was meaning that he is not mobile in terms of the speed he gets about the pitch. 

[qwertyell]

1 hour ago, Yozzman said:

You can accuse JWP of many things but not being mobile isn't one of them. I suggest you open your eyes.

Across the entire season, Southampton workhorse James Ward-Prowse has covered a league-topping 334.6km - the equivalent of running eight marathons or the distance from St Mary's Stadium to Paris as the crow flies.

Eddie Izzard ran 32 marathons in 31 days.

Doesn't mean he isn't slow as shit and easily outmanoeuvred in the midfield.

[egg]

2 hours ago, Yozzman said:

You can accuse JWP of many things but not being mobile isn't one of them. I suggest you open your eyes.

Across the entire season, Southampton workhorse James Ward-Prowse has covered a league-topping 334.6km - the equivalent of running eight marathons or the distance from St Mary's Stadium to Paris as the crow flies.

West Ham's Declan Rice is behind his fellow England international on 317.2km, followed by Abdoulaye Doucoure (309.6km), Jack Cork (304.3km), Roberto Firmino (301.9km), James McCarthur (297.3km) and Ashley Westwood (296.8km).

JWP runs around a lot. That doesn't make him mobile. 

[Yozzman]

2 hours ago, egg said:

JWP runs around a lot. That doesn't make him mobile. 

Surely that is the definition of mobility. You could say he could do it quicker but that attribute would be speed not mobility.

[Jonnyboy]

7 hours ago, qwertyell said:

Eddie Izzard ran 32 marathons in 31 days.

Doesn't mean he isn't slow as shit and easily outmanoeuvred in the midfield.

So in one of those days he did 2 marathons in 1 day?? 

[VectisSaint]

7 hours ago, Jonnyboy said:

So in one of those days he did 2 marathons in 1 day?? 

She 😉

[once_bitterne]

On 17/09/2022 at 16:40, trousers said:

Stu was pretty much the first player on Ralph's team sheet in our halcyon year of 2020, and there was that curious long running stat where we never lost when he played. I wonder why he's now seemingly out of favour? (I know I keep mentioning this but he never seemed the same after that bout of covid he had....)

That wasn't the stat.  It was that we didn't WIN a game for over a year if he DIDN'T play.

[Bad Wolf]

On 19/09/2022 at 18:40, david in sweden said:

Doomed ? ...you mean at the thought of only finishing 8th this season.. as did Puel ?

Yeah but the football was crap or something. So say those who now want to appoint Sean Dyche...

[Whitey Grandad]

51 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Yeah but the football was crap or something. So say those who now want to appoint Sean Dyche...

Puel’s football was crap, and I don’t want Sean Dyche.

[egg]

4 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Yeah but the football was crap or something. So say those who now want to appoint Sean Dyche...

Who are these Sean Dyche fans of whom you speak?

[Bad Wolf]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Who are these Sean Dyche fans of whom you speak?

Well whenever I ask the "Ralph Out" brigade who they want, they go quiet but that's the option they seem to go with.

[Bad Wolf]

5 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Puel’s football was crap, and I don’t want Sean Dyche.

Personally, I couldn't care less what brand of football is played as long as points are being picked up.