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January 2023 Transfer Window


mcbendy
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2 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Thing is, if you had the choice of signing Moi, Djenepo, Aribo or Ox, who would you go for?

Not sure Chamberpot can play as a winger or 10 anymore. Since he absolutely destroyed his knee, the few outings he's had over the last three (!) years have been in the centre of midfield, unremarkably recycling the ball. No speed, dribbling, creating.

That injury has long since wrapped up the high point of his career. 

So I suppose the question is, do we need an injury ravaged number 8 whose best days are long behind him? Or can we do better?

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2 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I don’t think he was better than Theo when they were younger, but Ox has developed more.  Thing is, if you had the choice of signing Moi, Djenepo, Aribo or Ox, who would you go for? I think most would choose Ox. For me therefore it’s a definite yes if the deal is right for Saints and on the condition that we still get a proper Striker. With that in mind if there’s still a chance Broja is in the mix then it’s break the bank time because he would be perfect for NJ’s plans IMO.

Nope, Aribo for me. It’s still like choosing your favourite STD but he has actually done something this season, unlike Ox.

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20 hours ago, Rebel said:

And to stay in the premier league your team needs a core of solid premier league players - not world beaters - but good premier league players who are experienced enough to know their way around the premier league.  I'm talking about players in the 24-32 age bracket who have enough games under their belt to make a difference. This core of players gives you the framework or spine of the team if you like to bring through players from the 18-24  age group and develop them without throwing them to the wolves game after game.

You also need depth to your squad - and I don't just mean having 25 players - you need enough good and experienced players in the 24-32 age bracket to last the season and cope with rotation, injuries, suspensions and international breaks.  At the very least a first 11 if not more than that.

I am not arguing they all have to be proven premier league players - but at least seasoned professionals from the Championship or another top tier league.   

 

I'd argue that being `good enough' is all that matters, not the age, previously experience and where that experience was. Our problem is not the age of our players, or their experience, its the quality.

Haarland had not got Prem experience and doesn't fit that age profile, but he'd be first choice in every Prem side right now. ABK doesn't fit the Prem experience or age criteria, but he's perhaps the first name on the team sheet right now. In the end, all that matters is buying quality. Age and experience, meh. The Ajax side a few years ago made the UEFA final and every player was under 21.

We actually signed a (balanced) mix of players this summer. AMN,ABK,  Carleta-Car and Aribo - all seasoned pros. Edozie, Mara, Bazunu and Larios - all nippers.

 

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1 hour ago, the saint in winchester said:

Older fans will recall MLT was just like that. By his own admission, he never sprinted or chased back, but he had so much talent he was an ever-present.

When you're regularly scoring 20+ goals a season you can do what you want IMO. Unfortunately we dont have a player who can score half that.

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28 minutes ago, waylander said:

Look back at the end of the last season. Plenty of people on here were complaining that his legs had gone.

The problem usually is that over the last few years when ‘problem’ players leave, Saints seem to have a knack of signing a lesser option which inevitably leads to an overall drop in 1st team quality and eventual flirting with the relegation zone. Ings and Romeu are the most recent examples but there are others.

I guess what I’m saying is that sometimes even a ‘problem’ player is better than a lesser skilled player. A great example of this I think was Le Saux at LB - old legs when with us but positionally he knew exactly what to do and used that to maintain a very high level of performance.

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1 hour ago, Chez said:

I'd argue that being `good enough' is all that matters, not the age, previously experience and where that experience was. Our problem is not the age of our players, or their experience, its the quality.

Haarland had not got Prem experience and doesn't fit that age profile, but he'd be first choice in every Prem side right now. ABK doesn't fit the Prem experience or age criteria, but he's perhaps the first name on the team sheet right now. In the end, all that matters is buying quality. Age and experience, meh. The Ajax side a few years ago made the UEFA final and every player was under 21.

We actually signed a (balanced) mix of players this summer. AMN,ABK,  Carleta-Car and Aribo - all seasoned pros. Edozie, Mara, Bazunu and Larios - all nippers.

 

I think ABK, Mara, Bazunu and Edozie were all good signings - just like Tino.  I don't think ABK is a seasoned player yet though with just one season at the top level in the Bundesliga.  

I meant experienced players at the top level - La Liga, Ligue 1, Bundesliga, Serie A for example - and I would also count the Championship as it is probably up there with those leagues in terms of competition.

I am not so sure about Aribo as the Scottish Premiership and League 1 or 2 are not of a good standard (and playing for Rangers means its relatively easy) and he is still relatively young.

The problem is when 2 or 3 out of your back 4 and your defensive midfielder are under 23 and relatively inexperienced - for example.  

Who are ABK and Salisu supposed to learn from on the pitch? Who teaches them how to manage games or see out a draw - or adapt to the other teams tactics.  I think we have all complained that Saints just don't seem to have this ability lately.

Ajax are probably the exception to the rule - and have been so more than once (the team of Kluivert, Litmanen, Kanu, Davids, Reizeger, De Boer, De Boer, etc stands out as the best young team ever).

And Haaland is one of those freaks of nature - but Dortmund and Citeh have the structure around him that we just don't have.

JWP, KWP and Caleta-Car would be the first names on my team sheet - with maybe Adams, Stu and AMN after them.  Add ABK, Edozie and Lavia to that and its a much stronger team.  

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, qwertyell said:

Not sure Chamberpot can play as a winger or 10 anymore. Since he absolutely destroyed his knee, the few outings he's had over the last three (!) years have been in the centre of midfield, unremarkably recycling the ball. No speed, dribbling, creating.

That injury has long since wrapped up the high point of his career. 

So I suppose the question is, do we need an injury ravaged number 8 whose best days are long behind him? Or can we do better?

Surely if he’s ‘destroyed’ his knee his career would be over…certainly at the top level? If that’s true and our medical assessment shows he’s not suitable for NJ’s plans, we’ll politely decline the opportunity I’m sure.

Edited by Saint Fan CaM
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4 hours ago, Rebel said:

I think ABK, Mara, Bazunu and Edozie were all good signings - just like Tino.  I don't think ABK is a seasoned player yet though with just one season at the top level in the Bundesliga.  

I meant experienced players at the top level - La Liga, Ligue 1, Bundesliga, Serie A for example - and I would also count the Championship as it is probably up there with those leagues in terms of competition.

I am not so sure about Aribo as the Scottish Premiership and League 1 or 2 are not of a good standard (and playing for Rangers means its relatively easy) and he is still relatively young.

The problem is when 2 or 3 out of your back 4 and your defensive midfielder are under 23 and relatively inexperienced - for example.  

Who are ABK and Salisu supposed to learn from on the pitch? Who teaches them how to manage games or see out a draw - or adapt to the other teams tactics.  I think we have all complained that Saints just don't seem to have this ability lately.

Ajax are probably the exception to the rule - and have been so more than once (the team of Kluivert, Litmanen, Kanu, Davids, Reizeger, De Boer, De Boer, etc stands out as the best young team ever).

And Haaland is one of those freaks of nature - but Dortmund and Citeh have the structure around him that we just don't have.

JWP, KWP and Caleta-Car would be the first names on my team sheet - with maybe Adams, Stu and AMN after them.  Add ABK, Edozie and Lavia to that and its a much stronger team.  

 

I'm lost. You said what we needed to bring in this summer was 24-32 year old players with lots of top flight experience and good quality, yet you then say ABK, Mara, Bazunu and Edozie are "good signings". So do you value those attributes or not? Sounds to me that all you really care about is their quality, just like me.

Our problem is not that ABK has no one to learn from, his colleagues CC, Lyanco, Salisu, KWP and Perraud  have over700 games under their belts, it's that we don't have 10 more players of his quality. 

 

Returning to your original post about us needing to sign players with those three attributes,  a 25 year old premiership player with a hundred games and is as a quality player, is going to be tough to attract and afford. Remove two of those criteria and we have a chance of signing them.

So, which two are you gonna lose?

Age and experience has to go. And that is what the club have said. We can't sign absolute top quality players with the age and experience you mention, so they are going to sacrifice those two criteria and go for absolute quality young and untried blokes. That makes total sense (as long as they do sign absolute quality), but just for fans like you that are not sold on that philosophy, they actually signed some players with age and experienced too. Now, whether those player have the quality, I'm not sure.

 

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3 hours ago, Chez said:

I'm lost. You said what we needed to bring in this summer was 24-32 year old players with lots of top flight experience and good quality, yet you then say ABK, Mara, Bazunu and Edozie are "good signings". So do you value those attributes or not? Sounds to me that all you really care about is their quality, just like me.

Our problem is not that ABK has no one to learn from, his colleagues CC, Lyanco, Salisu, KWP and Perraud  have over700 games under their belts, it's that we don't have 10 more players of his quality. 

 

Returning to your original post about us needing to sign players with those three attributes,  a 25 year old premiership player with a hundred games and is as a quality player, is going to be tough to attract and afford. Remove two of those criteria and we have a chance of signing them.

So, which two are you gonna lose?

Age and experience has to go. And that is what the club have said. We can't sign absolute top quality players with the age and experience you mention, so they are going to sacrifice those two criteria and go for absolute quality young and untried blokes. That makes total sense (as long as they do sign absolute quality), but just for fans like you that are not sold on that philosophy, they actually signed some players with age and experienced too. Now, whether those player have the quality, I'm not sure.

 

100% signing players with a proven track record of top-level mediocrity s what got us into this mess. That said, whether our scouting network is up to the task of finding low experience, high quality is another matter.

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On 17/11/2022 at 16:20, Saint Fan CaM said:

Surely if he’s ‘destroyed’ his knee his career would be over…certainly at the top level? If that’s true and our medical assessment shows he’s not suitable for NJ’s plans, we’ll politely decline the opportunity I’m sure.

He's started 28 league games in almost 5 years. Does that sound like a player at the peak of his powers?

 

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1 hour ago, qwertyell said:

He's started 28 league games in almost 5 years. Does that sound like a player at the peak of his powers?

 

Clearly not (although I’m not sure I’d class him in the same league as Batman or Spider-Man 😂), but then an experienced and skilled player who knows how to score goals playing a few games a season is more valuable to Saints than he is to Liverpool. Look, I’m not saying the guy is the answer, just that the right deal may be a worthwhile punt providing we still get a great striker and AM.

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9 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Clearly not (although I’m not sure I’d class him in the same league as Batman or Spider-Man 😂), but then an experienced and skilled player who knows how to score goals playing a few games a season is more valuable to Saints than he is to Liverpool. Look, I’m not saying the guy is the answer, just that the right deal may be a worthwhile punt providing we still get a great striker and AM.

Rather spend his huge wages on a regular striker than a bit part midfielder.

No new credible links to strikers yet?

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I've previously been on board with the narrative of re-signing players I've once enjoyed in a Saints shirt. I was excited when Walcott re-signed, thinking he'd bring something different to our team and that he was a natural finisher with experience, even if his pace had started to wane. How wrong I was, he's turned out to be a huge waste of wages and a squad place, which we can't replace until his contract expires. He's become the 2022 unsellable and has declined far below the current level we're playing at. This also made me hesitant when the Bale rumours started in the summer, and again, some were on board with it, but most know club football isn't for him anymore and he's started just twice in 17 matches in the MLS this season. Would've been another costly mistake.

Oxlade-Chamberlain is now, also very similar to Walcott and Bale. A crock who spends more time with the physio than he does on the pitch and will be asking for a high wage, as he also made it to the top clubs. All of these players are on the decline and they're declining to a level below us. We have good memories of what they were, but possibly like Rooney did, they've now burnt out to a lower level because they went straight into the first team when they were young because they were once that good. Plus, Oxlade-Chamberlain isn't even the winger we had, like Maitland-Niles he has some weird complex about being a central midfielder, rather than his best position where most managers played him.

So, I'd avoid him.

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16 hours ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Wouldn’t touch chamberlain with a shitty stick myself.. walcott 2.0 waiting to happen.. he never really lived up to his promise and long time since he’s done anything of note really 

Never really understood how these players "never lived up to their promise"? They both had incredible careers.

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It's clear the club is well aware of the need of a goal scoring front man, and are probably as desperate as we are to get one. As we know finding one we can afford is bloody difficult at the best of times, and the January window is not the best of times. They may be eyeing a quality striker or two, but that's a bit like me eyeing Scarlett Johansson.

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On 19/11/2022 at 09:54, HarvSFC said:

I've previously been on board with the narrative of re-signing players I've once enjoyed in a Saints shirt. I was excited when Walcott re-signed, thinking he'd bring something different to our team and that he was a natural finisher with experience, even if his pace had started to wane. How wrong I was, he's turned out to be a huge waste of wages and a squad place, which we can't replace until his contract expires. He's become the 2022 unsellable and has declined far below the current level we're playing at. This also made me hesitant when the Bale rumours started in the summer, and again, some were on board with it, but most know club football isn't for him anymore and he's started just twice in 17 matches in the MLS this season. Would've been another costly mistake.

Oxlade-Chamberlain is now, also very similar to Walcott and Bale. A crock who spends more time with the physio than he does on the pitch and will be asking for a high wage, as he also made it to the top clubs. All of these players are on the decline and they're declining to a level below us. We have good memories of what they were, but possibly like Rooney did, they've now burnt out to a lower level because they went straight into the first team when they were young because they were once that good. Plus, Oxlade-Chamberlain isn't even the winger we had, like Maitland-Niles he has some weird complex about being a central midfielder, rather than his best position where most managers played him.

So, I'd avoid him.

Walcott was never a natural finisher , he was ok if he didn’t have time to think what he was going to do with the ball but as soon as he had time or a one on one it seemed to go wrong .

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16 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

Walcott was never a natural finisher , he was ok if he didn’t have time to think what he was going to do with the ball but as soon as he had time or a one on one it seemed to go wrong .

I did a double take at that too. Finishing was always Walcott's weakness. It's the reason Wenger never trusted him to take over from Henry. You always got the feeling that he found the corner by accident rather than placement.

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21 minutes ago, Turkish said:

in any case you can usually spot similarities in posting styles and I cannot see anything that would make anyone believe Manji or TBS are the same person.

Thanks for that. FWIW I always appreciate a good Cortese anecdote - otherwise, we only have the vomit-inducing Jim White's sycophancy to go on.

Also the true reason for Danny Rohl's exit when you feel safe to divulge it...!

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55 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I stopped posting my bits of information a few years ago after people started to be desperate for me to be wrong. Unfortunately for the forum it was their loss, the hyenas who circled the forum lion were beaten off but as a result the lion no longer cares for the opinions or to share insights with the forum of gazelles

It took me years to rejoin after logging in only to see the forum lion beat off a circle of other posters. 🙂

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2 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

I did a double take at that too. Finishing was always Walcott's weakness. It's the reason Wenger never trusted him to take over from Henry. You always got the feeling that he found the corner by accident rather than placement.

Regularly hit double figures for Arsenal and that was often from that wide position. 18 goals in 67 Champions League appearances, which is perceived to be the highest level. 21 in 43 in 2012-13 and 19 in 37 in 2016-17. Finishing might have been his weakness, but if he was any good now, his finishing would have been a huge improvement on anything we currently have and would have been a good addition to Ings.

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26 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

It took me years to rejoin after logging in only to see the forum lion beat off a circle of other posters. 🙂

I've heard a rumour that some posters circle together and create a soggy biscuit.

Probably an urban myth though.

(That or a suppressed memory from boarding school.)

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On 17/11/2022 at 21:08, Chez said:

I'm lost. You said what we needed to bring in this summer was 24-32 year old players with lots of top flight experience and good quality, yet you then say ABK, Mara, Bazunu and Edozie are "good signings". So do you value those attributes or not? Sounds to me that all you really care about is their quality, just like me.

Our problem is not that ABK has no one to learn from, his colleagues CC, Lyanco, Salisu, KWP and Perraud  have over700 games under their belts, it's that we don't have 10 more players of his quality. 

 

Returning to your original post about us needing to sign players with those three attributes,  a 25 year old premiership player with a hundred games and is as a quality player, is going to be tough to attract and afford. Remove two of those criteria and we have a chance of signing them.

So, which two are you gonna lose?

Age and experience has to go. And that is what the club have said. We can't sign absolute top quality players with the age and experience you mention, so they are going to sacrifice those two criteria and go for absolute quality young and untried blokes. That makes total sense (as long as they do sign absolute quality), but just for fans like you that are not sold on that philosophy, they actually signed some players with age and experienced too. Now, whether those player have the quality, I'm not sure.

 

I think they are good signings - they have the quality and the potential we need - but we need more experienced players to go with them. The problem we have is we may well get relegated for the lack or experience before those players fulfil their potential.

Maybe I didn't say it explicitly enough but I meant we need to sign those players as well - not only or instead of (but I also know you are one of those posters who just likes to find something to disagree with and have an argument).

Salisu is 22 and had one full season in the La Liga before we signed him - I don't class him as experienced.   Lycano - I am not sure has played regularly enough at the top level to be seasoned.  KWP and Caleta-Car probably have.  Perraud is on this way there but only has 1 or 2 season at the top level in France.

For truly great players maybe age isn't so relevant and hopefully ABK, Tino and Lavia will fall in to that bracket.

A back 2 of Salisu and ABK lacks experience - and when you add Tino at right back, Peraud and left back  and Lavia in CDM I just don't think there is enough experience or gamesmanship there to see out hard games, turn losses in to draws and draws in to wins.

And you are right we probably can't afford a 25 year old premiership player with a hundred games and is as a quality player - but I was talking about a top tier or competitive league experience - not just the premier league - eg  Matt Grimes or Josh Brownhill in midfield  - both seasoned players from the Championship. 

But also keeping players like Romeu until we have other players experienced enough to take his palace in the squad would have been a good idea. 

 

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59 minutes ago, Saintscummer said:

Who would go for Adam Armstrong straight swap for Bremerton Diaz ? 
I know it’s Championship for Championship but great players have come up through the leagues. Ie, Lambert, Philips etc 

Of course but Blackburn Rovers aren't stupid. They could sell Diaz for £15m+. We will get nowhere near when the time comes to move Armstrong on. We won't be able to get rid of Armstrong unless he accepts a wage cut or we subsidise them. If we stay up, loaning him out next season is the most likely scenario or he stays.

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14 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Of course but Blackburn Rovers aren't stupid. They could sell Diaz for £15m+. We will get nowhere near when the time comes to move Armstrong on. We won't be able to get rid of Armstrong unless he accepts a wage cut or we subsidise them. If we stay up, loaning him out next season is the most likely scenario or he stays.

I read or heard somewhere that he is running his contract down and was going for £10 million. My point is would they be happy with Adam A ? He has scored plenty at that level and what else could they get with £10 million 

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I watch a lot of Lille as I am Canadian and watch Jonathan David and I have to say I’m usually very impressed with Tim Weah and his ability to create. He doesn’t particularly get a lot of opportunity to play but when he does come on he creates a lot of havoc. He looked really good in the first half vs Wales and his goal was a great finish. Probably would be available for under £15M 

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14 hours ago, The Fat Controller said:

I think we should take a closer look at the Iranian striker Medhi Taremi who scored twice against England today.

his record at Porto and prior to that  is pretty good but the only down side is he is 30 years old.

If Sports Republic have got any sense, invite him to Staplewood and advise him to claim asylum - effectively a free transfer. 

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19 hours ago, Saintscummer said:

I read or heard somewhere that he is running his contract down and was going for £10 million. My point is would they be happy with Adam A ? He has scored plenty at that level and what else could they get with £10 million 

Blackburn might get promoted. They will be very very reluctant to sell Diaz until the summer.

 

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5 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Jude Bellingham CDAJFU.

17 year old Bellingham going for £30m shows exactly what we are up against.

We want to buy top quality talent. We know we need to look at young and inexperienced players for the right quality of player to be in our financial ball park, but not a chance we were able to sign him ahead of Dortmund, even though he only had one season in the championship.

The only way we could have signed him is while he was playing for the Birmingham youth team.

Everyone knew he was quality, but we would have had to spend £15m to get him...much like we have done with Edozie. So obviously that's the way to go then? Snap up the wonder kids. The trouble of course is that not every wonder kid thrives like Bellingham did once he started playing first team football. 

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9 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

His contract runs out in the summer - he is free to talk to interested parties this January

Gotcha. Has the rule changed. I thought it used to be that players in their final year of contract could start talking to oversees clubs in January and then in this country once contracts had ended? Or have I just got that wrong?

I'd of thought he'd keep his options open in case Blackburn did get promoted. Having said that, if a team like Saints came in for him in January (and agreed a fee with Blackburn) he's have to consider it. You wouldn't want to miss out on a Prem pay day.

I liked him when he was at Forest. Good feet and great prospect. Lacked goals back then. Not any more.

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19 minutes ago, Chez said:

Gotcha. Has the rule changed. I thought it used to be that players in their final year of contract could start talking to oversees clubs in January and then in this country once contracts had ended? Or have I just got that wrong?

I'd of thought he'd keep his options open in case Blackburn did get promoted. Having said that, if a team like Saints came in for him in January (and agreed a fee with Blackburn) he's have to consider it. You wouldn't want to miss out on a Prem pay day.

I liked him when he was at Forest. Good feet and great prospect. Lacked goals back then. Not any more.

Go to admit I don’t know enough about him and how he scores the majority of his goals. If Blackburn have unlocked his potential then it’s essential that our style of play is able to maintain the system that suits him. We don’t have the luxury of hoping another Ch’ship striker will come good in a years time.

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