Tottenham 4-1 Saints - Match Thread

[Ekelund]

Just now, Gurj said:

I thank u. Spot on again. 

Hero

[Forester]

14 minutes ago, saintant said:

Ralph needs to learn quick that he will not solve anything by concentrating on keeping a tight defence. I've supported this team for nearly sixty years and for most of that time we have conceded for fun but been a good, attacking side playing plenty of attractive football and scoring loads of goals. I'd rather we went down trying that than some badly contrived formation designed to keep the goals against down to a minimum - that has never worked for us and it won't now. Put out a side to attack not defend.

I am sorry but while this sounds fun it’s just plain wrong.  Go look at our four top eight finishes and read the table.  We conceded only 1 to 1.2 goals per game and won lots of 1-0s.  Reality is everyone outside the big six needs a solid defense to finish in top half

[Saints foreva]

5 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Is it unfashionable to say that Salisu is not actually that good? He seems to get a free pass with all the criticism being aimed at Bednarek and co (they deserve it too), but Salisu’s been gash for a while.

Expected nothing today but was hoping to see some shoots of change. Same old same old.

He had a purple patch last season and that's it. He's a very clumsy defender and wouldn't make any other established side in this division. Madness that we've started this season with the same shite CBs that conceded 60+ goals last season. 

[Fitzhugh Fella]

14 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Hmm this is all very miserable, there's no way to swing that one. For me at HT the changes were obvious - Romeu for Armstrong and Adam Armstrong off for Adams, but Ralph has tried to be clever again I think. 

First half was 'ok' when we got the ball to Aribo, the problem was the lack of movement or quality up front. So the logical thing would have been to keep Aribo where he was and bring on Adams up top (I'm assuming he hasn't got an injury). But what happened by putting Aribo up top is we lost any attacking out, we didn't have anything and Spurs were able to stretch us - Aribo was covering quite well in the first half on that right hand side.

The 2nd half was a total tactical shambles sadly. Pulled all over the pitch, stretched in behind, no cover for the full backs. Then when you add in individual cluster fucks to it, it makes for a really difficult situation. Salisu's head has gone, it's been gone for months. He's got a brain fart in him every game at the moment, so his partnership with Bednarek has clearly matured. 

Onto the few positives....Lavia looked tidy in the middle, keeps the ball well, moves it well, seems strong. He can't do it all on his own though.

Aribo in the 10 looks decent, coming in from the right. I see some positives in a partnership with him and KWP. Let's not kill him by trying to pretend he's a striker.

Other than that I'm struggling to see anything. I wasn't expecting to get anything today, but you want to see some chink of light and some decent things to build upon. But this was all to similar as to the Brentford away game, the Leicester away game, Burnley away, Villa away. It's just like groundhog day. Another season of not watching MOTD.

I am surprised you seem surprised. We are going nowhere with RH even if we sign a couple of world beaters before the window shuts. You used the words “tactical shambles” and that is utterly down to the manager. The writing was clearly on the wall last season and yet many chose not to read it. 

[saintant]

1 minute ago, Forester said:

I am sorry but while this sounds fun it’s just plain wrong.  Go look at our four top eight finishes and read the table.  We conceded only 1 to 1.2 goals per game and won lots of 1-0s.  Reality is everyone outside the big six needs a solid defense to finish in top half

Attack is the best from of defence.

[DT]

Ralph is the problem

[S-Clarke]

Just now, saintant said:

Attack is the best from of defence.

Not in this league, and not with the attackers we have!

[AlexLaw76]

The reason Adams never got on the pitch

 

[Fan The Flames]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

Why? It's just patronising and an insult to people's intelligence.

Because they're paid by the club.

Also it's the first game of the season, went one nil up away from home, played well in patches. There was stuff for someone wanting to be positive to be positive. 

It shouldn't matter, you can see the truth, Ralph can, they can. 

[Tanlee]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

Attack is the best from of defence.

We're shit at both 

[Baird of the land]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

The reason Adams never got on the pitch

 

Here was me thinking Adam Armstrong went off at HT.

[saintant]

1 minute ago, Baird of the land said:

Here was me thinking Adam Armstrong went off at HT.

Ralph coming out with his usual post match ramblings.

Edited 6 August, 2022 by saintant

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

I am surprised you seem surprised. We are going nowhere with RH even if we sign a couple of world beaters before the window shuts. You used the words “tactical shambles” and that is utterly down to the manager. The writing was clearly on the wall last season and yet many chose not to read it. 

I liked to show faith, I wanted to stick with him and let Sports Republic show their hand and see what he can do. I wasn't happy with last season, it was by far his worst with us. He's been backed this window more than he's ever been backed so time will tell if this improves things longer term. I don't want to read 'too' much into one game, but the concerning bit is that it's all very much groundhog day.

I want to see who we get through the door in attack as that will make a huge difference. (and I still think we're in the market for another CB, just a hunch). He's got until November though, if we head into the world cup in the bottom 3 then he's got to go and we can use the world cup to prepare with a new manager. It's probably quite telling that as a PL club we'll only have 1 guaranteed player away, good for us but it does show up the lack of real proven quality.

[Dr Who?]

Stuart Armstrong would be one of my first names on the team sheet. Not sure why he is left out. Then when he does come on he is played out of position. I was not expecting anything today, but it was a very strange team and line up. Bit like the start to last season away at Everton. Took the lead, and then went to shit. 

[captainchris]

Ralph ! TWO UP FRONT and also no full backs at all or cover or closing down defensively or zonal marking or playing Bednarek will not work.

Now wake up or ship out. On second thoughts, three plus years of pressing the repeat button isn’t going to change is it… 

[Fan The Flames]

10 minutes ago, derry said:

We were hanging in there after an hour albeit 1-2 but still in the game, then came the one most incompetent pieces of crap from a so called professional who can't get his head around putting his right boot through the ball and into the stand. He is so embarrassingly left footed that he hit the ball into an empty net under no pressure, an air shot and the goal wouldn't have happened. All the talk of improving him is rubbish, he should be practiceing using his right foot every day until it's natural, he obviously isn't. That killed the game along with the half acre behind Djenepo. 

It's all very well playing three centre backs but rediculous if the full backs are out of the game defensively and the other defenders get pulled out and exposed. For me A. Armstrong only plays if there are two more forwards. On his own not in the game. Lavia looks a decent holding link. The team needs a rethink. Full backs are defenders against top half sides not wingers. Aribo is an attacking midfielder as is S.Armstrong. Lavia but not with both Romeu amd JWP. As fot Valery, Stephens and Bednarek not good enough. 

That side today was a schizophrenic mess wide open to quick breaks.. The manager has to bear responsibility he set it up.

Agree. If he can't put his right foot through it or his right foot on the ball and then play it with his left then we are in trouble.

We looked open like we did against Spurs in 2020 when Son scored 4, if I remember rightly we tighten up after that one. 

[The Cat]

On the train back, left after 75 minutes.

We started alright, nice goal and Spurs were huffing and puffing without doing much, their fans very quiet.

Then 2 poor pieces of defending and suddenly we are behind. 3rd goal killed the game, no idea what Salisu was doing there although was up the other end.

Positives were Lavia who I thought was excellent, and Aribo who had a decent game.

Negatives was Djenepo reverting to pre pre season type and forgetting how to defend, plus the lack of threat up front from Armstrong. Surely it would have been better to play Adams because he at least can hold the ball up.

Had a good day out drinking at Pressure Drop taproom around Tottenham Hale in the sun and saw a few people I hadn't seen for ages. So at least the day wasn't a complete waste of time, haha.

Also, Spurs fans are massive twats. Couldn't believe how many of them were walking back to the station when we left. They were 4-1 up FFS. Awful fans really, just another London ground full of rich, part time fans and tourists.

 

[hasper57saint]

I have supported Saints now for over 65 years and in spite of the continued errors which has led yet again to almost humiliation on the first day of the season I shall continue to support my Club. However, the eternal optimist that I am, and prepared to give the benefit of the doubt, I honestly believed that Ralph had actually learned some lessons from the total surrender at the latter part of last season. No! He hasn't even remedied the stupidity of selecting players that are not only mediocre but also unsuitable to play in today's PL. What has Che done wrong? AA is not a PL striker. Why in the close season did we not  buy a recognised striker? Ralph has not lost the plot. He just continues to use the defunct version and it will never pay dividends. Sean Dyche is available; so as a special request Ralph. Jump before you are pushed. I am reluctant to say this but 'you have outstayed your usefulness here, Just go!'

[macca155]

Well that was fun ... not.

Pretty grim performance all round.

Spurs are a better side but they aren't unbeatable. If you have a decent game plan then you have a chance.

The fact we had a 1 0 lead but didn't know what to do with it, is scandalous.

The good thing about being in the stadium is, you miss loads. None of us saw the OG ... Good.

However we did see close up the interaction between Djneppo and the other players. They were not happy with him one bit. Lots of verbal. I don't want to see him at LB again.

Stephens looked the best of the defence. Take from that what you will.

Expected to lose  we did, forget it move on and get a result against Leeds. Long way to go.

 

 

[beatlesaint]

9 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

The reason Adams never got on the pitch

 

Hang on, hang on….dudnt he say mid week he likes the 5 subs cos you can change up both strikers?

Fkin idiot makes it up as he goes

[OttawaSaint]

Awful, a monkey could pick a better formation and line up.

He's just so fucking stubborn. I dunno what Adams had done to deserve this but that formation and tactic(s) was shockingly naive. 

You'd give a new manager a bit of a pass for this but RH has been here long enough.

Shocking. I'm actually thinking that if RH tried to n lose he'd fuck up and end up winning.

A decent manager could get a tune out of this team. I'm convinced of that. 

Why do we always get these jokers as managers?

Start at thr back (in preseason) and make us solid there. Then work on the attacking.

We're shit up front and shit at the back. He's got to go,  right away. 

[jabei]

Surprised absolutely nothing being said about the two Spurs horror tackles. I know it wouldn't make any difference to the result but both were pretty bad....especially the one that didn't even get a booking.

[DT]

Just seen the Salisu OG. Embarrassing. 

[OttawaSaint]

Surely this suits our players strengths better?

               Bazunu

KWP Kotchap Salisu Perraud

       JWP Romeu Lavia

            Stu Aribo

              Adams              

[Baird of the land]

Just now, DT said:

Just seen the Salisu OG. Embarrassing. 

Ralph will convince us that he's sure that Salisu is now a striker like Stu  Armstrong.

[saintant]

1 minute ago, OttawaSaint said:

Surely this suits our players strengths better?

               Bazunu

KWP Kotchap Salisu Perraud

       JWP Romeu Lavia

            Stu Aribo

              Adams              

Agree, not difficult is it Ralph?

[saint michael]

I don’t feel angry I feel sad. First game in 67. I feel I have lost my club. Ralph is a real Charlatan. All bullshit now with prem and Ralph who is fi ing clueless. I would seriously be in any league with a set up that I can connect to than this shit 

[DT]

1 minute ago, OttawaSaint said:

Awful, a monkey could pick a better formation and line up.

He's just so fucking stubborn. I dunno what Adams had done to deserve this but that formation and tactic(s) was shockingly naive. 

You'd give a new manager a bit of a pass for this but RH has been here long enough.

Shocking. I'm actually thinking that if RH tried to n lose he'd fuck up and end up winning.

A decent manager could get a tune out of this team. I'm convinced of that. 

Why do we always get these jokers as managers?

Start at thr back (in preseason) and make us solid there. Then work on the attacking.

We're shit up front and shit at the back. He's got to go,  right away. 

The happy clappies will be on your back, saying it’s too early. Despite it being glaringly obvious that he is tactically clueless for the entire season last time out. He picks wrong teams. Favours wrong players. Plays people out of position. Cannot time a substitute. Useless at man management. Can’t manage a game. Please give him a deadline. I hope the owners can see it too. 

[OttawaSaint]

3 minutes ago, DT said:

The happy clappies will be on your back, saying it’s too early. Despite it being glaringly obvious that he is tactically clueless for the entire season last time out. He picks wrong teams. Favours wrong players. Plays people out of position. Cannot time a substitute. Useless at man management. Can’t manage a game. Please give him a deadline. I hope the owners can see it too. 

The happy clappers can suck my balls!

We've won, what? One in the last 15? Excuses excuses excuses. 

Spurs top 4, yes, but I didn't see Fulham put out a comedy formation and lineup vs Liverpool. They looked well-organized.

[qwertyell]

28 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

this is the worst place I've been at as a Saints fan ever.

There are other websites.

[Lighthouse]

7 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Surely this suits our players strengths better?

               Bazunu

KWP Kotchap Salisu Perraud

       JWP Romeu Lavia

            Stu Aribo

              Adams              

You think we’d have defended better with a fourth debutant in the team, playing at CB no less, and a LB who isn’t fit?

[DT]

1 minute ago, OttawaSaint said:

The happy clappers can suck my balls!

We've won, what? One in the last 15? Excuses excuses excuses. 

Spurs top 4, yes, but I didn't see Fulham put out a comedy formation and lineup vs Liverpool. They looked well-organized.

Agreed. Ralph is the emperor’s new clothes

[OttawaSaint]

Just now, Lighthouse said:

You think we’d have defended better with a fourth debutant in the team, playing at CB no less, and a LB who isn’t fit?

Yes.

[Midfield_General]

All summer to plan for it and almost a full squad to choose from, and he comes up with that absolute mess of a side. 

Leaving Adams on the bench in favour of an out of position midfielder up front is so obtuse, it's genuinely farcical. 

That was an absolute tactical shambles today. He's had ages and still doesn't have a clue what his best formation or first XI is. Confused thinking and square pegs in round holes all over the place. 

What was even more concerning was how quickly the heads went down. In the past, even when we were really shit, we had really limited players who put in some fighting back-to-the-walls performances to rescue something from games, or just to avoid a hiding. Didn't see any of that today. As soon as the third one went in we just meekly accepted getting tonked, and on day one of the season, that is worrying. 

Unless we improve drastically in terms of tactics, organisation and mentality, we are bang in trouble. And I hate to say it as I've always liked Ralph as a bloke, but I'm just not sure he's got it in him to do it. He just looks lost to me. 

Need to beat Leeds, and convincingly. If we can manage that then maybe we can build from there. But he's had time, and he's been backed - there are no excuses left now. 

[The Kraken]

3 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

You think we’d have defended better with a fourth debutant in the team, playing at CB no less, and a LB who isn’t fit?

I don’t think you can hold up our defensive performance today as a positive benchmark of anything.

What made it more surprising was that Ketchup played so many minutes in pre season. He’s clearly got a long way to go but he’s also clearly not as horrendous as Valery. He would have had to have had a disaster to not be an improvement in Valery or Stephens.

As for Perraud, if he’s not fit he wouldn’t be in the bench and wouldn’t have come on.

[West end Saints]

22 minutes ago, Dr Who? said:

Stuart Armstrong would be one of my first names on the team sheet. Not sure why he is left out. Then when he does come on he is played out of position. I was not expecting anything today, but it was a very strange team and line up. Bit like the start to last season away at Everton. Took the lead, and then went to shit. 

Don't think he can play a role in 5/3/2, very likely to give the ball away in dangerous positions so far too risky for this defensive midfield RH is using, not a wing back or forward.  (didn't see today but in talkssport commentary first time mentioned was giving the ball away for the attack with Salisu howler.) He needs to be the advanced midfield if we go back to 4/2/2/2, or more attacking role in more conventional formations. 

 

 

[egg]

8 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

You think we’d have defended better with a fourth debutant in the team, playing at CB no less, and a LB who isn’t fit?

Do you seriously disagree with him?

I can't imagine you'd have much support in arguing against a CB at CB and a LB at LB rather than the mess we had this afternoon.

[OttawaSaint]

Ralph "smartest man in room" Hassenhüttl has probably been fully erect for weeks thinking about his masterstroke of playing a defensive formation all preseason to frustrate Spurs and pull off a smash and grab victory on opening day only to lose 4-1 and just stand there doing nothing looking like a butler unable to believe his cunning plan hasn't worked.

Time to go Baldrick!

Edited 6 August, 2022 by OttawaSaint

[CanadaSaint]

I've tried to calm down before posting because I was spitting blood for most of the game.

On the negative side, after hanging in there with him through thick and thin, I'm now convinced that we have a relegation manager. He is - and always has been - arrogant, self-opinionated, blind to his own failings, and too obstinate to recognize and change what's not working with a starting line-up that should never have started. Our back-left quadrant was wide open from the get-go because Djenepo will never, ever be an effective LB/LWB; to pick him and leave Perraud on the bench (who played very well against Spurs last year) was madness. Valery in Ralph's back-three makes our composure deficit even worse.

Picking Armstrong ahead of Adams (and keeping Adams on the bench) was senseless - unless they're protecting him because there's a deal pending that would see Adams leave and a new striker come in.

On the positive side, I think we're not too far from a solid, mid-table Premier League squad, although we obviously need a striker. I'll justify that optimism with an analogy. If someone changed his guitar strings around, even Eric Clapton would look like an idiot. The problem's not the guitar but the dipshit who set it up.

 

[trousers]

23 minutes ago, jabei said:

Surprised absolutely nothing being said about the two Spurs horror tackles. I know it wouldn't make any difference to the result but both were pretty bad....especially the one that didn't even get a booking.

Yeah, I'm not looking to make excuses either but those are the kind of tackles that we've had players sent off for before - and changed the course of the game at the time - yet they don't even raise an eyebrow when against us. It also doesn't help when our players aren't in the ref's face when it happens to us either. Can you imagine the Spurs players reaction if the other way around. Once again, as per previous seasons, we're far too nice.....

Edited 6 August, 2022 by trousers

[ErwinK1961]

22 minutes ago, DT said:

Just seen the Salisu OG. Embarrassing. 

Didn’t watch the game then?

[egg]

20 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Surely this suits our players strengths better?

               Bazunu

KWP Kotchap Salisu Perraud

       JWP Romeu Lavia

            Stu Aribo

              Adams              

Yep. Two actual CB's at CB, an actual RB and LB, 3 actual midfielders, 2 actual 10's, and an actual striker. It's not complicated, and I'm staggered that there's any argument against it. The mind boggles. 

[The Cat]

22 minutes ago, saint michael said:

I don’t feel angry I feel sad. First game in 67. I feel I have lost my club. Ralph is a real Charlatan. All bullshit now with prem and Ralph who is fi ing clueless. I would seriously be in any league with a set up that I can connect to than this shit 

Christ, how did you feel under Branfoot and the second reign of Lowe then?

Some perspective please.

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

New coaching staff, new system, (some) new players, same manager, same comedy defending and poor overall team performance. Hmmm...

Always going to be a tough ask to go to Spurs and get something but why does it always have to end in a hiding?

[Convict Colony]

27 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Surely this suits our players strengths better?

               Bazunu

KWP Kotchap Salisu Perraud

       JWP Romeu Lavia

            Stu Aribo

              Adams              

Like that a lot can see che holding the ball up as aribo and stu run off him

[OttawaSaint]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

Yep. Two actual CB's at CB, an actual RB and LB, 3 actual midfielders, 2 actual 10's, and an actual striker. It's not complicated, and I'm staggered that there's any argument against it. The mind boggles. 

Right?

It's not that any formation in isolation, is better or worse than any other.

But the coach MUST pick the formation that fits the attributes of what players he or she has at his or her disposal.

From that, then the tactics are decided and worked on.

[OttawaSaint]

1 minute ago, Convict Colony said:

Like that a lot can see che holding the ball up as aribo and stu run off him

Exactly and Romeu can drop off a bit to provide extra cover for the CBs.

[egg]

4 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Christ, how did you feel under Branfoot and the second reign of Lowe then?

Some perspective please.

Do you find our form from we tailed off last season to now, the humiliating nine nils, the bonkers team selections, etc, any less painful than the Branfoot days? 

[The Kraken]

6 minutes ago, CanadaSaint said:

Picking Armstrong ahead of Adams (and keeping Adams on the bench) was senseless - unless they're protecting him because there's a deal pending that would see Adams leave and a new striker come in.

I’ve been thinking about the Adams situation and it’s just a bit baffling. 

I saw the Villareal game as a bit of a dress rehearsal, plus Mara getting a runout. When Armstrong came on at half time and not Adams, it obviously raised a few issues. I thought then that it was likely AA would start this week. Which was worrying.

I know all players look pissed off when not playing, but Che Adams looked massively fucked off today. Slumped in his seat with a face of thunder and resignation, when I saw him I thought there’s no way he’s in todays plans and so it was. I reckon he’s had a fall out with Ralph, maybe he has asked to leave and been told no / not yet.

To not get on the pitch at all today is a joke. Definitely more to it than Ralph has said.

[Dragon_man]

Back at Waterloo ... anyone want Leicester and Wolves tickets ...

This is going to be a tough season. Ni lessons learned. I'm surprised at SR's faith in RH. It could cost them very dearly.

JWP and KWP will be wondering whether a relegation battle season ahead is better than being in a tip 10 team on more money. Defeat next Saturday and I expect their resolve to be tested.