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Tottenham 4-1 Saints - Match Thread

Bad Wolf

By Bad Wolf,
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jabei

jabei

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, obelisk said:

Well at least that's pretty much what I expected so can't say I'm particularly disappointed. If Ralph is given 10 games we'll be down by March.

If JWP or KWP get a decent offer they'll likely be off.

Who is after JWP? I've not heard anything

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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

Posted
Posted

Well that was pretty horrific. Started OK and scored a decent goal from open play, then did the very Saintsy thing of capitulating at the back and gifting the opponents a comfortable win.

The defending for each of their goals was comical. Salisu well short of his best today, and Bednarek very much at his terrible best. I really hope we can replace him soon. We are always going to concede with him playing, whatever the formation.

Up front, A Armstrong did literally nothing. So instead of replacing him with another striker, Ralph plays out the second half with two MFs up front. I know we are still in the market for another striker, possibly two, but really? What has Che done to deserve that? he scored twice at that ground last season and can't even get on the pitch today? Baffling.

I'm very sorry to day that any goodwill I still have left towards Ralph is fast evaporating. I know Spurs are a top side with some of the best attacking talent in Europe, but what happened today was mostly self inflicted and that is the most frustrating thing. He'd better learn some lessons from today's game and make them count or he can do one IMO.

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64saint

64saint

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

Well this result can only spur the club on to bring in the players we keep saying we need. .

 

 

You're right, problem is we've probably blown most of our budget for the season already 

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sydney_saint

sydney_saint

Posted
Posted

That was really difficult

Negatives

Defending obviously. No one knows quite where to be. KWP was tucking in too much at time (which I can't blame him, he used to playing orthodox fullbak). Bednarek doesn't look like he wants to be here, and I don't want him here either.

Formation. Maybe it will come good, but I hate the way it makes our play so predictable. Once the centre backs have the ball, their only option is to either pass it straight down the middle, who will then pass to the wingbacks, or straight to the wingbacks anyway. Made all the worse with no presence up front

Valery- he's okay for like a 6th choice cb, but should not be starting. It's like Ralph wants to prove a point that his coaching can turn someone around. Valery lacks the discipline to ever be a true starter.

 

Positives

I didn't think Djenepo was too bad. Okay he's not good enough, but he always gets stuck in. 

Clearly got a decent midfield, even if they were overun today against a good side.

I liked seeing JWP playing more advanced and think he can get more goals like that from open play.

I've always been more in the Ralph in camp. But he's lost me on one of the things that kept me on board. We had a clear playing style under him with a high team press and quick balls if we overturned it up high up the pitch. I look at us today- and I have no fucking idea what we are. Are we a defensive team that tries to score off set pieces? Are we a counter attack side? Are we a pressing side? What the fuck are we? Without that identity, then I don't know what Ralph brings anymore.

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John B

John B

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, bangkoksaint said:

I staggered there’s people out there still giving him the benefit of the doubt and a string of games to fix things. Nothing, absolutely nothing has changed. We’re not sleep walking towards relegation……..we’re wide awake and know exactly what’s coming.

Nothing has changed because we have not really improved the squad we have got a few young players in but nobody outstanding.

 

Spurs finished 4th in the PL last season and have spent loads of money on improving the squad.

 

WE have not done that so consequently our performances have not improved

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whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 31/07/2022 at 13:01, Matthew Le God said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This thread is as depressed as Antonio Conte was the last time Saints played away at Spurs!

FY_ZjlLXEAE43o4.jpg.d9215eedc9640cdc653170d6924f5160.jpg

 

Bump smug MLG post. Who was right?

Edited by whelk
Fuck doesn’t bring in multi quotes predicting this
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Winnersaint

Winnersaint

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Called 4-1 though 😅

I agreed. Didn't expect anything else. Good side Spurs, way better than us. Our battles elsewhere in this league. Understandable reaction here as little seems to have changed since last season. Happy to reserve judgement until window shuts though.

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John Boy Saint

John Boy Saint

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Maggie May said:

What has this new back room team brought in? 

I was thinking the same, I wasn’t expecting a photocopy, with the toner running out, of the abject gruel we were dished up at the latter stage of last season. I thought this much lauded bunch were a step up on the good old boy and ex goalkeeping coach. Unless that’s because Ralph rules the place his way and his way only, ignoring their input.
Lets see what happens next week, sat in the stadium with a full view of the pitch.  

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saintant

saintant

Posted
Posted

Ralph needs to learn quick that he will not solve anything by concentrating on keeping a tight defence. I've supported this team for nearly sixty years and for most of that time we have conceded for fun but been a good, attacking side playing plenty of attractive football and scoring loads of goals. I'd rather we went down trying that than some badly contrived formation designed to keep the goals against down to a minimum - that has never worked for us and it won't now. Put out a side to attack not defend.

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted

Hmm this is all very miserable, there's no way to swing that one. For me at HT the changes were obvious - Romeu for Armstrong and Adam Armstrong off for Adams, but Ralph has tried to be clever again I think. 

First half was 'ok' when we got the ball to Aribo, the problem was the lack of movement or quality up front. So the logical thing would have been to keep Aribo where he was and bring on Adams up top (I'm assuming he hasn't got an injury). But what happened by putting Aribo up top is we lost any attacking out, we didn't have anything and Spurs were able to stretch us - Aribo was covering quite well in the first half on that right hand side.

The 2nd half was a total tactical shambles sadly. Pulled all over the pitch, stretched in behind, no cover for the full backs. Then when you add in individual cluster fucks to it, it makes for a really difficult situation. Salisu's head has gone, it's been gone for months. He's got a brain fart in him every game at the moment, so his partnership with Bednarek has clearly matured. 

Onto the few positives....Lavia looked tidy in the middle, keeps the ball well, moves it well, seems strong. He can't do it all on his own though.

Aribo in the 10 looks decent, coming in from the right. I see some positives in a partnership with him and KWP. Let's not kill him by trying to pretend he's a striker.

Other than that I'm struggling to see anything. I wasn't expecting to get anything today, but you want to see some chink of light and some decent things to build upon. But this was all to similar as to the Brentford away game, the Leicester away game, Burnley away, Villa away. It's just like groundhog day. Another season of not watching MOTD.

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SNSUN

SNSUN

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, James said:

Difficulty is - on paper and no matter how you dress it up - our first XI is very weak in comparison to the rest of the league. There is nothing at all wrong with buying talented youngsters and hoping for future return but in terms of immediate improvement on last season there was none and hard to argue we’ve gone backwards (AA a massive downgrade on Broja, Yan in a back three etc.). We’ve made an encouraging amount of signings this summer but when Stephens is getting on ahead of ABK and Mara isn’t even on the bench it’s a bit of a concern given how bad we were last year. A first team striker before the window is an absolute must otherwise it’s going to be an almighty slog.

Agree, We don't have an attack but at least start by having a good defence and hoping to nick a goal for a 1-0 or something. The Sean Dyche playbook. We conceded 67 league goals last season and were in dire need to sign defenders in the summer - we signed 1, ABK, and he didn't even get a game today so we were using the same lot we have during the terrible run at the end of last season. Until we can bring another CB and full back in, we should not be playing this 3 at the back nonsense and go back to Ralph's tried and tested 4-2-2-2. The problem with THAT formation is we don't have the strikers. It's Catch-22.

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UpweySaint

UpweySaint

Posted
Posted

The Good

  • We scored. A decent finish from JWP which suggests he may continue with the goals from open play the crept into his game last season.
  • Aribo showed some promise. I think there is a player in there in a more sensible shape.
  • Lavia looked composed and a more dynamic presence than Romeu. I would like to see him in a midfield two with JWP.
  • KWP remains top quality - he got through a lot of work and luckily came away without an injury.
  • It's only three points and let's be honest nobody expected much today so hopefully we can dust it off and go again.
  • The window is still open and hopefully the need for an actual striker has been made much more apparent - if Sports Republic are serious about us surviving and/or pushing on the cheque book needs to come up for a reliable goal scorer.

The bad

  • The lack of tactical plan. In the second half in particular I had no idea how we expected to score - where was the goal threat?
  • The score. 4-1 is a pretty depressing way to start the season against any opponent.
  • Romeu looked lost being asked to play further forward. I just don't see it.
  • Bazunu understandably nervy and his distribution was patchy - though who he was meant to be hitting wasn't clear.
  • Spurs fans giving it the big'un.
  • Armstrong. Barely had a kick and couldn't hold up the ball at any point - though this is evidently not his game. Presume the plan had been for him to play off the shoulder and hit Spurs on the break but it didn't work at all. Broja is a big miss on today's display ... still bizarre Adams didn't get the nod at any point.
  • The officiating. It wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference to the outcome but f*ck me there was some poor decisions - how Romero didn't get at least a yellow is beyond me - he didn't get the ball (despite what the commentary team on my feed were keen to tell us) and it was a reckless tackle with unnecessary force. The Spurs players then had the audacity to mob the referee to complain it was even given as a foul .

The Ugly

  • Same old same old. A calamity goal conceded and then we fell apart. We need to start keeping our heads and stay in games - at 3-1 we are still just about in the game (in theory) but at 4 we are all fearing a tanking and it's a case of damage limitation.
  • The lack of ambition. I can take losing games. I can take the odd spanking (just ask Mrs Upwey ...) but when we set up like we did today and still get taken apart I just don't see the point. I miss seeing us trying.
  • Ralph. I've been an advocate of giving him time and patience - in the cold light of day I still might sit in that camp. What worries me the most is he appears to have lost his bottle. Where has the high intensity, front foot football gone? He got plenty wrong today. Tactics, line up, subs, game management ...
  • The defence. All over the f*cking shop. I'm a fan of settling on a first choice CB pairing and giving them a run to build a partnership and understanding. Nobody seemed to have a clue today.
  • Salisu's howler. I rate him. At points last year he was a ball magnet and his positioning was quality. But he had a shocker today and won't want to look lack on the own goal any time soon.
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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted (edited)

What is Dean Hammond on? How can he stand there and say he was happy with what he saw, there were positives, lots to build on. Feels like he's been fed a club script to read.

I'm all for having bias people on your own club social channels, but don't fluff it up like this. Fans want to hear the truth and honesty from former pro's who have been there and done it, not a load of wet propaganda.

Edited by S-Clarke
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Mr Saints

Mr Saints

Posted
Posted

It says it all that Valery and Djenepo are starting in our defensive unit for a Premier League opener. Jesus wept.

and Salisu… useless, he could have done 59 other things rather than the one he chose for the OG. Body shape, technique, mindset woeful.

The only positive was Lavia who looks a player.

 

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Fan The Flames

Fan The Flames

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

What is Dean Hammond on? How can he stand there and say he was happy with what he saw, there were positives, lots to build on. Feels like he's been fed a club script to read.

I'm all for having bias people on your own club social channels, but don't fluff it up like this. Fans want to hear the truth and honesty from former pro's who have been there and done it, not a load of wet propaganda.

You can see it with your own eyes. Of course the clubs channels are going to be positive.

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
Just now, Fan The Flames said:

I see that Salisu og at least once a month by some fat 50+ player.

I still think Vergini's OG at St Mary's was the worst ever OG i've seen, but this one pushes it very close. It wasn't just the OG in it's self, it was the fact that he'd got himself in the wrong position to start with and then couldn't sort himself out. He's not been the same since he was tracked by Newcastle (assuming it was true).

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ErwinK1961

ErwinK1961

Posted
Posted

Is it unfashionable to say that Salisu is not actually that good? He seems to get a free pass with all the criticism being aimed at Bednarek and co (they deserve it too), but Salisu’s been gash for a while.

Expected nothing today but was hoping to see some shoots of change. Same old same old.

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derry

derry

Posted
Posted

We were hanging in there after an hour albeit 1-2 but still in the game, then came the one most incompetent pieces of crap from a so called professional who can't get his head around putting his right boot through the ball and into the stand. He is so embarrassingly left footed that he hit the ball into an empty net under no pressure, an air shot and the goal wouldn't have happened. All the talk of improving him is rubbish, he should be practiceing using his right foot every day until it's natural, he obviously isn't. That killed the game along with the half acre behind Djenepo. 

It's all very well playing three centre backs but rediculous if the full backs are out of the game defensively and the other defenders get pulled out and exposed. For me A. Armstrong only plays if there are two more forwards. On his own not in the game. Lavia looks a decent holding link. The team needs a rethink. Full backs are defenders against top half sides not wingers. Aribo is an attacking midfielder as is S.Armstrong. Lavia but not with both Romeu amd JWP. As fot Valery, Stephens and Bednarek not good enough. 

That side today was a schizophrenic mess wide open to quick breaks.. The manager has to bear responsibility he set it up.

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, derry said:

We were hanging in there after an hour albeit 1-2 but still in the game, then came the one most incompetent pieces of crap from a so called professional who can't get his head around putting his right boot through the ball and into the stand. He is so embarrassingly left footed that he hit the ball into an empty net under no pressure, an air shot and the goal wouldn't have happened. All the talk of improving him is rubbish, he should be practiceing using his right foot every day until it's natural, he obviously isn't. That killed the game along with the half acre behind Djenepo. 

It's all very well playing three centre backs but rediculous if the full backs are out of the game defensively and the other defenders get pulled out and exposed. For me A. Armstrong only plays if there are two more forwards. On his own not in the game. Lavia looks a decent holding link. The team needs a rethink. Full backs are defenders against top half sides not wingers. Aribo is an attacking midfielder as is S.Armstrong. Lavia but not with both Romeu amd JWP. As fot Valery, Stephens and Bednarek not good enough. 

That side today was a schizophrenic mess wide open to quick breaks.. The manager has to bear responsibility he set it up.

Can't disagree with anything you've said there, well summed up.

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Baird of the land

Baird of the land

Posted
Posted

I was hoping for a gritty draw or a narrow loss.

What We got was an embarassing 4-1 thrashing & the formation we've spent all pre-season solely focusing on dissolving into a mess.

Clueless management. Was concerned when manager was talking pre-season about how a 30yrd stu armstrong was now a striker and how Bednarek was a leader. Thought CB selection was bizarre and playing no natural striker for 45 minutes odder.

Feel sorry for Adam Armstrong. Misused and therefore looked lost, whilst the striker good at holding the ball up languished on the bench for the whole game.

Hopefully we revert to a 4 for leeds.

 

Small positives. Bazanu at least looked not horrible. Lavia looked bright. JWP still can score.

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Fan The Flames

Fan The Flames

Posted
Posted

For me it's just more of the same, we've been at this point for far too long.

I'm sure we will pick up and then drop off and then have a blinder followed by a shit result.

We look so vulnerable at the back and toothless up front. We haven't progressed at all, I'm getting to the point where I'm don't care enough, this is the worst place I've been at as a Saints fan ever.

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Vancouver Saint

Vancouver Saint

Posted
Posted

So I'm posting before reading other comments. Thought there were plenty of positives in that. Game turned on a ridiculous own goal just when we were pushing for an equaliser that killed it as a contest. Lavia looked really good. Djenepo played well in his new position. Bazunu is a real goalkeeper. Aribo will get some goals. Perraud back.

Downside, obvious failings - suicidal defending, Failure to stop crosses. Valery starting? No striking threat. Romeu and S Armstrong off the pace.

Spurs will spank plenty of teams at home this season - the depth of their bench is ridiculous when you see the four subs they can bring on at once.

No Che Adams...suggests Forest sale might be real - I'd be okay if that meant we got Timo Werner, otherwise silly to sell.

We will beat teams around us if we play like that minus the obvious mistakes.

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