Well, it definitely won't be Suella Braverman and the rebirth of the Conservative Party

[Weston Super Saint]

13 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

 

#runningscared

Of what?  A competent, sensible Prime Minister with the desire to get on with the job?

I'm just not a fan of Soggy's convoluted fairytales about how we will get there!  Starmer will be voted in becase the tories will put forward an inept candidate, nothing to do with far left agitators or right wing media.

[egg]

19 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

I disagree. The country is ready for a change and are ready for a grown up for PM. The far left might be irrelevant to the country but they will do what they can to derail Starmer’s attempt to get elected and the right wing media will be all over it, just as they were with the Blairites attempt to hamstring Corbyn. Starmer is not stupid. He knows what he needs to do to get elected and is doing it. He can see that he doesn’t need to do too much right now because the Tories are doing his job for him. If they elect Truss, which seems likely at the moment, he job becomes easier. Just be a viable alternative to the current shit show, which really isn’t difficult. He has some difficult waters to navigate with the forthcoming and current strikes. The far left expect to see Labour MPs supporting the strikers and standing in picket lines. Starmer knows that is a vote loser amongst the floating middle England voters and has to tread a fine line between not alienating those fighting for a living wage and those who are being affected by the strikes. So far he has managed it and he is right to say that the government needs to do more to fasciliate negotiations between management and workers. These strikes will only end with both sides talking and reaching agreements. The Tories enjoy unrest by unions as it plays into their hands. Where they are getting it wrong now is that public opinion seems to be turning in favour of those striking as more and more of us are being hit by costblof living rises. Starmer could probably afford to stand by the unions more and not lose the middle England support he needs to get elected. This winter is going to be a nightmare for this country whoever wins the race to become PM. Starmer should be cleaning up next year.

just re "Where they are getting it wrong now is that public opinion seems to be turning in favour of those striking as more and more of us are being hit by costblof living rises".

What makes you say that there is sympathy is with the strikers? I have zero sympathy with those dock workers who are striking because an 8.1-9.6% pay increase isn't good enough. The dopey unions can't see that nothing getting through the ports will only cause supply/demand issues, thus more inflationary pressures. 

I agree though that it'll be a nightmare winter. There's genuine fear out there amongst a lot of people. Striking and demanding pay massive rises that'll only make things worse isn't the solution though. 

[whelk]

9 minutes ago, egg said:

just re "Where they are getting it wrong now is that public opinion seems to be turning in favour of those striking as more and more of us are being hit by costblof living rises".

What makes you say that there is sympathy is with the strikers? I have zero sympathy with those dock workers who are striking because an 8.1-9.6% pay increase isn't good enough. The dopey unions can't see that nothing getting through the ports will only cause supply/demand issues, thus more inflationary pressures. 

I agree though that it'll be a nightmare winter. There's genuine fear out there amongst a lot of people. Striking and demanding pay massive rises that'll only make things worse isn't the solution though. 

It is definitely split by age group as to sympathy for the strikes, younger more supportive. 
There is so much spin and bs to try and get public support for or against. 
Interesting you say ‘massive’ yeah massive if you don’t want to pay it. There is so much money being made in the 5th largest economy in the world but the narrative is always the country can’t afford it. They can but not if there is a shareholders must have their profit mentality. 
 

[badgerx16]

19 minutes ago, egg said:

just re "Where they are getting it wrong now is that public opinion seems to be turning in favour of those striking as more and more of us are being hit by costblof living rises".

What makes you say that there is sympathy is with the strikers? I have zero sympathy with those dock workers who are striking because an 8.1-9.6% pay increase isn't good enough. The dopey unions can't see that nothing getting through the ports will only cause supply/demand issues, thus more inflationary pressures.

Will you support the Barristers in their industrial action over pay ?

[egg]

3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Will you support the Barristers in their industrial action over pay ?

On balance, yes. The junior criminal bar are earning £85 for a brief for all prep, travel time, conference, paperwork, hearing time, etc. Often many many hours work. There's a genuine public interest in having representation in the criminal courts. 

[egg]

23 minutes ago, whelk said:

It is definitely split by age group as to sympathy for the strikes, younger more supportive. 
There is so much spin and bs to try and get public support for or against. 
Interesting you say ‘massive’ yeah massive if you don’t want to pay it. There is so much money being made in the 5th largest economy in the world but the narrative is always the country can’t afford it. They can but not if there is a shareholders must have their profit mentality. 
 

For me it's about keeping a lid in inflation. As tough as it'll be to have sub inflation pay hikes, the fact is that inflation plus will only fuel inflation, thus even higher interest rates, and the vicious cycle goes on. There's a degree of restraint needed on pay to help us get out of the shit we're in.

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Of what?  A competent, sensible Prime Minister with the desire to get on with the job?

I'm just not a fan of Soggy's convoluted fairytales about how we will get there!  Starmer will be voted in becase the tories will put forward an inept candidate, nothing to do with far left agitators or right wing media.

Exactly, he’s right about one thing the county is ready for change and labour will more than likely get in for this reason alone not because the right wing media. His endless drivel about this almost as amusing as his white saviour complex 

[badgerx16]

30 minutes ago, egg said:

On balance, yes. The junior criminal bar are earning £85 for a brief for all prep, travel time, conference, paperwork, hearing time, etc. Often many many hours work. There's a genuine public interest in having representation in the criminal courts. 

So which groups of people are entitled to strike and which aren't ?

[rallyboy]

It's difficult for multi-millionaire cabinet ministers to tell minimum-wage workers that they need to tighten their belts when many of the problem has been caused by billions of pounds of taxpayer money being channelled to donors and the friends and families of MPs.

Chuck in all the lies about new hospitals and Brexit dividends, plus the energy companies now being prioritised above people in poverty, and the last elements of trust are being washed away in the rapidly rising rivers of human shit - river filth sanctioned by government. 

The UK is a rudderless failing football team right now - No direction, no shape or tactics on display, losing every week, propping up most tables, always blaming someone else or claiming that we lead the world in every competition.

The dugout is empty, we have nothing on the bench - and we're all standing around paying for this shitshow, watching the inevitable weekly car crash performances that drop us further into a black hole - and half the fans are still cheering...😨

These are mad times.

 

 

 

 

[egg]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

So which groups of people are entitled to strike and which aren't ?

That's too simplistic. 

[whelk]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/19/liz-truss-lead-uk-sewage-leadership-marina-hyde?CMP=share_btn_tw

[Whitey Grandad]

4 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Of what?  A competent, sensible Prime Minister with the desire to get on with the job?

I'm just not a fan of Soggy's convoluted fairytales about how we will get there!  Starmer will be voted in becase the tories will put forward an inept candidate, nothing to do with far left agitators or right wing media.

Scared by the possibility of a Labour government.

[Weston Super Saint]

11 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Scared by the possibility of a Labour government.

Nope.

[egg]

22 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Scared by the possibility of a Labour government.

 

11 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Nope.

I've never voted labour, but I would take a left of centre thinking labour government over this Tory mob every day of the week. I dread to think what Truss will do over the next 2 + years though. 

[badgerx16]

46 minutes ago, egg said:

That's too simplistic. 

Is wanting to maintain a standard of living a bad thing ? The major drivers of inflation at the moment are nothing to do with wages, and for some industries shareholder dividends are booming. People are seeing the wealthy grow even wealthier without lifting a finger, whilst at the same time being told that they have to accept a significant drop in their living standards ( because we have a moribund and clueless Government, that blames everybody else for it's problems and is incapable of generating solutions ).

To take the case of the Barristers; their claim for increased fees, paid out of the Public purse, is directly at odds with Truss' proposed tax cuts, which won't solve anything and, as usual, would benefit the better off disproportionately.

Edited 21 August, 2022 by badgerx16

[egg]

46 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Is wanting to maintain a standard of living a bad thing ? The major drivers of inflation at the moment are nothing to do with wages, and for some industries shareholder dividends are booming. People are seeing the wealthy grow even wealthier without lifting a finger, whilst at the same time being told that they have to accept a significant drop in their living standards ( because we have a moribund and clueless Government, that blames everybody else for it's problems and is incapable of generating solutions ).

To take the case of the Barristers; their claim for increased fees, paid out of the Public purse, is directly at odds with Truss' proposed tax cuts, which won't solve anything and, as usual, would benefit the better off disproportionately.

Correct that wage rises haven't created this inflation issue. However, wage rises at or above it will drive it up. Basic economics.

The reality is that in times of high inflation, we (the masses) will have to tolerate a reduction in living standards. 

The barristers issue is a serious one. No professional should be expected to do a days work for £85. Barristers don't want to do criminal work, that's understandable. The criminal courts will clog up. People will rot on remand. Victims will be denied justice. Wholly different issue to dockers refusing to work unless they get 10% more money. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 hours ago, egg said:

For me it's about keeping a lid in inflation. As tough as it'll be to have sub inflation pay hikes, the fact is that inflation plus will only fuel inflation, thus even higher interest rates, and the vicious cycle goes on. There's a degree of restraint needed on pay to help us get out of the shit we're in.

The problem is the country isn’t ready for it. The pitch should have been prepared a couple of years ago when The Chancellor was paying people to stay at home and the BoE was printing money. The consequences of this should have been spelt out and nobody should have been left in any doubt a reckoning was coming. The Ukrainian situation has only added to the problem, they’d still be a massive problem regardless of what Russia did there.
 

People won’t accept pay restraint, and you can’t really blame them when there’s plenty of work about. High Inflation is a cancer in the economy and as you’ve said we’ll end up in a vicious circle. The only way out of it is horrendously high interest rates, job losses and a recession. People will only accept pay restraints when they’re worried about the future and their future job prospects. For all Tory hopes that this is ‘79 & Thatcher did this and Thatcher did that, we’re nowhere near there at the moment. It’s more like Heath/Wilson/Callaghan 70’s. The Tories will kick the can down the road hoping to squeak back in, whoever wins the next election will probably do the same, rinse and repeat for a few more years. There is absolutely no way people are ready for the type of recession needed to bring inflation down to the levels we’ve seen for 20 years. 

Edited 21 August, 2022 by Lord Duckhunter

[ecuk268]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

Exactly, he’s right about one thing the county is ready for change and labour will more than likely get in for this reason alone not because the right wing media. His endless drivel about this almost as amusing as his white saviour complex 

It'll be interesting to see what The Sun does.

Murdoch likes backing winners. Hence he ditched Major and supported Blair when the Tories were in trouble.

If Lizzy doesn't get results I can see him backing Starmer.

[sadoldgit]

6 hours ago, egg said:

just re "Where they are getting it wrong now is that public opinion seems to be turning in favour of those striking as more and more of us are being hit by costblof living rises".

What makes you say that there is sympathy is with the strikers? I have zero sympathy with those dock workers who are striking because an 8.1-9.6% pay increase isn't good enough. The dopey unions can't see that nothing getting through the ports will only cause supply/demand issues, thus more inflationary pressures. 

I agree though that it'll be a nightmare winter. There's genuine fear out there amongst a lot of people. Striking and demanding pay massive rises that'll only make things worse isn't the solution though. 

I have seen plenty of support for the strikers in the media. A neighbour works for the railways, is a striker and says that he has received plenty of support. More and more people have had no pay rises for years and are now getting below inflation increases. Throw in fuel poverty and food price hikes and I think there are a lot more people struggling and have sympathy for those in the same boat, even if you don’t personally.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, sadoldgit said:

I have seen plenty of support for the strikers in the media. A neighbour works for the railways, is a striker and says that he has received plenty of support. More and more people have had no pay rises for years and are now getting below inflation increases. Throw in fuel poverty and food price hikes and I think there are a lot more people struggling and have sympathy for those in the same boat, even if you don’t personally.

Walter strikes again!  Discussion about strikes and Walter just happens to have a neighbour that is on strike!  Walter must know nearly everyone within 200 miles of his home town!  You couldn't make it up (unless your name was Walter).

[Lord Duckhunter]

Every time Soggy, knows, meets, or speaks to somebody, they always seem to back up his opinions. 

Edited 21 August, 2022 by Lord Duckhunter

[Weston Super Saint]

13 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Every time Soggy, knows, meets, or speaks to somebody, they always seem to back up his opinions. 

It's astonishing.

I reckon this place is probably the only place on earth where it isn't an echo chamber for Soggy.

[egg]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

I have seen plenty of support for the strikers in the media. A neighbour works for the railways, is a striker and says that he has received plenty of support. More and more people have had no pay rises for years and are now getting below inflation increases. Throw in fuel poverty and food price hikes and I think there are a lot more people struggling and have sympathy for those in the same boat, even if you don’t personally.

Not sure how you lurch to saying I don't have sympathy for people's living standards going down. I have huge sympathy. However, I also have common sense and a modicum of understanding of economics. Big pay rises will make things a hell of a lot worse. I understand that, even if you don't personally. 

[whelk]

6 hours ago, egg said:

Correct that wage rises haven't created this inflation issue. However, wage rises at or above it will drive it up. Basic economics.

The reality is that in times of high inflation, we (the masses) will have to tolerate a reduction in living standards. 

The barristers issue is a serious one. No professional should be expected to do a days work for £85. Barristers don't want to do criminal work, that's understandable. The criminal courts will clog up. People will rot on remand. Victims will be denied justice. Wholly different issue to dockers refusing to work unless they get 10% more money. 

Do shareholders have to tolerate lower or no dividends in these times?

[Turkish]

3 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Walter strikes again!  Discussion about strikes and Walter just happens to have a neighbour that is on strike!  Walter must know nearly everyone within 200 miles of his home town!  You couldn't make it up (unless your name was Walter).

It’s probably just people taking the piss. When he enters the local the mixed raced bar lady probably sighs and wonders how she can get rid of him so he doesn’t bore her by going on and on and on and on how terrible it must be for her being black again. One week she got someone to pretend to be a BLM protester, it worked so well they’re at it every week the lads are at it every week pretending to be all sorts of characters, with a sweepstake running on who can carry on the wind up the longest. 

Edited 21 August, 2022 by Turkish

[egg]

26 minutes ago, whelk said:

Do shareholders have to tolerate lower or no dividends in these times?

Yes, but what's that got to do with higher inflation and an even worse economy?

Edited 21 August, 2022 by egg

[Turkish]

13 hours ago, whelk said:

Do shareholders have to tolerate lower or no dividends in these times?

Despite there being a fuel crisis it appears there has never been a better time to be a shareholder in a fuel company 

Edited 22 August, 2022 by Turkish

[whelk]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Yes, but what's that got to do with higher inflation and an even worse economy?

You realise the workers see these profits and don’t want to fall for your parroted line of ‘doing your bit for the greater good of the country’ as there isn’t enough money to give you a pay rise as it needs to go here. Quite basic really

[whelk]

Marxist scum. Although didn’t realise there were actual journalists there as assumed bots and algorithms took care of the articles

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/21/journalists-at-rightwing-daily-express-set-to-strike-over-pay

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, whelk said:

Marxist scum. Although didn’t realise there were actual journalists there as assumed bots and algorithms took care of the articles

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/21/journalists-at-rightwing-daily-express-set-to-strike-over-pay

Well well well, difficult one for soggy this, does he support the strikers or the right wing paper? I look forward to his response. 

[Weston Super Saint]

4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Well well well, difficult one for soggy this, does he support the strikers or the right wing paper? I look forward to his response. 

 

The strikers.  Definitely the strikers!  A neighbour of his is a striker and he supports him 100%!  Think of the fuel poverty and food price hikes!

 

5 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

I have seen plenty of support for the strikers in the media. A neighbour works for the railways, is a striker and says that he has received plenty of support. More and more people have had no pay rises for years and are now getting below inflation increases. Throw in fuel poverty and food price hikes and I think there are a lot more people struggling and have sympathy for those in the same boat, even if you don’t personally.

[Turkish]

24 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

 

The strikers.  Definitely the strikers!  A neighbour of his is a striker and he supports him 100%!  Think of the fuel poverty and food price hikes!

 

Surely the right wing scum journos would not have his support? They’re trying to smear labour to keep those evil tories in power

Edited 21 August, 2022 by Turkish

[moonraker]

On 20/08/2022 at 13:07, Lord Duckhunter said:

Dear God 

Excellent contribution 

[egg]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

You realise the workers see these profits and don’t want to fall for your parroted line of ‘doing your bit for the greater good of the country’ as there isn’t enough money to give you a pay rise as it needs to go here. Quite basic really

Yep, very basic thinking mate. If you can't see that hyper pay rises will make the inflation situation worse, thus leading to more expectations of more pay, yet more inflation, and a continuing cycle, there's no point discussing the issue with you. 

[whelk]

19 minutes ago, egg said:

Yep, very basic thinking mate. If you can't see that hyper pay rises will make the inflation situation worse, thus leading to more expectations of more pay, yet more inflation, and a continuing cycle, there's no point discussing the issue with you. 

I have a finance degree mate but mightily impressed with your grasp of macro economics. 

[kyle04]

On 13/07/2022 at 17:33, whelk said:

Penny Mordaunt has a penis. You heard it here first 

What, an actual functioning one, or a trophy in a jar of formaldehyde?

[egg]

11 minutes ago, whelk said:

I have a finance degree mate but mightily impressed with your grasp of macro economics. 

Yet you seem to think that big pay rises is the answer to rapid inflation. Blimey. 

[revolution saint]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Yep, very basic thinking mate. If you can't see that hyper pay rises will make the inflation situation worse, thus leading to more expectations of more pay, yet more inflation, and a continuing cycle, there's no point discussing the issue with you. 

Not really read much of this part of the thread so may have been covered elsewhere but part of the problem has been sub-inflation pay rises for over a decade.  Obviously the high rate at the moment is the rather large straw on the camels back but if wages had kept pace with inflation then I suspect we wouldn't be seeing the same level of strike action.  Wage growth is pretty important at a macro level - remember reading that one of the things Obama saw as a problem to the recovery of the economy after the recession was stagnant wages and one of the recommendations was trying to strengthen the hand of unions.

 

[Jonnyboy]

12 hours ago, rallyboy said:

It's difficult for multi-millionaire cabinet ministers to tell minimum-wage workers that they need to tighten their belts when many of the problem has been caused by billions of pounds of taxpayer money being channelled to donors and the friends and families of MPs.

Chuck in all the lies about new hospitals and Brexit dividends, plus the energy companies now being prioritised above people in poverty, and the last elements of trust are being washed away in the rapidly rising rivers of human shit - river filth sanctioned by government. 

The UK is a rudderless failing football team right now - No direction, no shape or tactics on display, losing every week, propping up most tables, always blaming someone else or claiming that we lead the world in every competition.

The dugout is empty, we have nothing on the bench - and we're all standing around paying for this shitshow, watching the inevitable weekly car crash performances that drop us further into a black hole - and half the fans are still cheering...😨

These are mad times.

 

 

 

 

Still, thank God we dodging a Labour government under Corbyn eh? 

[whelk]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Yet you seem to think that big pay rises is the answer to rapid inflation. Blimey. 

Nice try sunshine. You seem to think it’s all very simple.  Don’t forget to doff your cap when doing your masters work

[whelk]

12 hours ago, whelk said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/19/liz-truss-lead-uk-sewage-leadership-marina-hyde?CMP=share_btn_tw

Frankly these cunts should have a pay freeze. ‘Back at the helm’ 

Edited 21 August, 2022 by whelk
Wrong link but cannot be arse to find the right one

[Weston Super Saint]

7 hours ago, revolution saint said:

Not really read much of this part of the thread so may have been covered elsewhere but part of the problem has been sub-inflation pay rises for over a decade.  Obviously the high rate at the moment is the rather large straw on the camels back but if wages had kept pace with inflation then I suspect we wouldn't be seeing the same level of strike action.  Wage growth is pretty important at a macro level - remember reading that one of the things Obama saw as a problem to the recovery of the economy after the recession was stagnant wages and one of the recommendations was trying to strengthen the hand of unions.

 

I can't find too much on this, but this article suggests above inflation pay rises for quite a lot of the last decade (although it doesn't give a total figure for the past decade for either inflation or pay rises).

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/jun/14/uk-pay-falling-inflation-energy-bills-unemployment

 

[Weston Super Saint]

7 hours ago, Jonnyboy said:

Still, thank God we dodging a Labour government under Corbyn eh? 

Yep.  Every day we thank our lucky stars he was too shit to even beat Boris.

[Turkish]

8 hours ago, whelk said:

Frankly these cunts should have a pay freeze. ‘Back at the helm’ 

Boris looks like a your typical fat, scruffy, pasty British tourist doesn’t be. Bet he went back for seconds at every buffet and still complained about the food

Edited 22 August, 2022 by Turkish

[Jeremy Corbyn]

11 hours ago, egg said:

Yep, very basic thinking mate. If you can't see that hyper pay rises will make the inflation situation worse, thus leading to more expectations of more pay, yet more inflation, and a continuing cycle, there's no point discussing the issue with you. 

We really need to teach basic econonmics in school.  This is just made up daily mail nonsense.  It's insane that anyone genuinely thinks that these pay increases can cause further inflation - it's what happens when people read the same guff over and over again.

[egg]

14 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

We really need to teach basic econonmics in school.  This is just made up daily mail nonsense.  It's insane that anyone genuinely thinks that these pay increases can cause further inflation - it's what happens when people read the same guff over and over again.

I'd get yourself to a class mate. 

[whelk]

54 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

We really need to teach basic econonmics in school.  This is just made up daily mail nonsense.  It's insane that anyone genuinely thinks that these pay increases can cause further inflation - it's what happens when people read the same guff over and over again.

And probably completely ignore money supply and quantitative easing.

[whelk]

41 minutes ago, egg said:

I'd get yourself to a class mate. 

I think everyone understands labour costs contribute to price. You think the answer is to pay everyone less in real terms to keep inflation down. Thankfully many see beyond your Victorian mill owner mentality and actually care about how most people survive. Imagine have paid piss breaks at Amazon - before you know it Bezos will be liquidating the company with such unaffordable costs.

[sadoldgit]

17 hours ago, egg said:

Not sure how you lurch to saying I don't have sympathy for people's living standards going down. I have huge sympathy. However, I also have common sense and a modicum of understanding of economics. Big pay rises will make things a hell of a lot worse. I understand that, even if you don't personally. 

You seem to have lurched from questioning my point that  more people now have sympathy for strikers. Not sure what that has to do with the economy as that wasn’t what I was talking about. I understand that even if you didn’t personally 😉. Thanks for the patronisation and yes, of course I understand that higher wages will fuel higher inflation but again, that is not the point. After 10 years of austerity and now rapidly rising inflation and below inflation pay rises more people now have sympathy for strikers was the point. You, personally, took issue with that point. Are we on the same page now?

[egg]

53 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

You seem to have lurched from questioning my point that  more people now have sympathy for strikers. Not sure what that has to do with the economy as that wasn’t what I was talking about. I understand that even if you didn’t personally 😉. 1. Thanks for the patronisation and yes, of course I understand that higher wages will fuel higher inflation but again, that is not the point. After 10 years of austerity and now rapidly rising inflation and below inflation pay rises more people now have sympathy for strikers was the point. You, personally, took issue with that point. 2. Are we on the same page now?

1. Perhaps don't patronise if you can't accept a little back.

2. No. I cannot support strikers who turned their nose up at a pay offer that equated to about 9%, and in doing so choke the supply chain only fuelling inflation.