Well, it definitely won't be Suella Braverman and the rebirth of the Conservative Party

[whelk]

Braverman has a dream to see a plane load of immigrants go to Rwanda. Hardly a Martin Luther King

also needs to understand what a fucking coup is - it isn’t MPs speaking against a tax break they don’t agree with!

[buctootim]

The CEO of Shell thinks that windfall taxes to help the poorest are inevitable and desirable as a sociasl obligation - but Liz Truss doesnt.  Tells you everything. 

[saint1977]

2 hours ago, buctootim said:

The CEO of Shell thinks that windfall taxes to help the poorest are inevitable and desirable as a sociasl obligation - but Liz Truss doesnt.  Tells you everything. 

Yep, Truss and Kwarteng are out of step and out of time, bar 160k zealots. This is a good article which underscores why, with Boris’s co-writer of the 2019 GE manifesto hitting the nail on the head - Truss is unelected on this mandate. The Red Wall voted for levelling up and One Nation Conservatism, because Boris wasn’t a typical Tory. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63110539

All the u turns won’t make that go away. I wasn’t happy with Gordon Brown but at least he carried on broadly the platform from the 2005 GE notwithstanding the credit crunch. This by contrast is a coup. The ERG and Bruges Group seem to have less of a problem with this unelected official. 

The howls at John Curtice were quite funny, they didn’t enjoy it as much as his 2015 exit poll clearly. Not sure how that’s a surprise to them really, but then we are talking about people who chose Truss over Sunak. Not saying Sunak is all that but 2024 GE would have been a contest at least as Starmer isn’t pulling up trees (or needing to). And the economy and society wouldn’t be a smouldering wreck as Rishi actually understands economics a bit. I’d have been a fuck sight happier with him as PM and more of a mandate and right to be there continuing largely a mandate won at a GE.

Its like a Soho cinema at their conference, blue on blue now with Braverman and Badenoch clashing about the former’s idiotic ‘coup’ remarks. I see one of the Cornwall MPs has called Braverman out as well and rightly so. Every twat who voted for Braverman in Fareham needs to have a long look in the mirror with some of the moronic, unevidenced and plain stupid things she has said today about Rwanda, benefits inflation etc. Jenkyns has been saying equally stupid things as well - not enough people studying construction and architecture and too many Harry Potter. The Bruges Group got the hump on social media when someone pointed out 245k were studying those disciplines and 0 Harry Potter.

But you can always fall back and say you were trying to rile the left - which starts at George Osborne, David Willets and Heseltine onwards these days - when you really you are just post-truth fuckwits caught in a lie. 

Edited 4 October, 2022 by saint1977

[whelk]

Truss makes a thing of being happy doing unpopular things. She would well to listen to this pollster when he talk of annihilation

 

[badgerx16]

51 minutes ago, whelk said:

Truss makes a thing of being happy doing unpopular things. She would well to listen to this pollster when he talk of annihilation

 

If she continues like this, she might be facing a 1922 vote well before the next GE. After all, the majority of her MPs supported Rishi.

Edited 4 October, 2022 by badgerx16

[Sheaf Saint]

4 hours ago, buctootim said:

The CEO of Shell thinks that windfall taxes to help the poorest are inevitable and desirable as a sociasl obligation - but Liz Truss doesnt.  Tells you everything. 

This is mental. Shell are one of the most unethical, profit-hungry corporations this world has ever seen (if you're not already familiar with the case of Ken Saro-Wiwa, look it up).

For their CEO's calls to implement more socialist policies and be taxed more to fall on deaf ears at Number 10 speaks volumes about how ghoulish Thick Lizzy's government is.

Edited 4 October, 2022 by Sheaf Saint

[Weston Super Saint]

5 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

This is mental. Shell are one of the most unethical, profit-hungry corporations this world has ever seen (if you're not already familiar with the case of Ken Saro-Wiwa, look it up).

For their CEO's calls to implement more socialist policies and be taxed more to fall on deaf ears at Number 10 speaks volumes about how ghoulish Thick Lizzy's government is.

I'm assuming she earned herself some shares during her time with Shell and is doing everything she can to protect them  

[The Left Back]

I've tried but sorry I can't do it any more. I crumbled after less than 10 minutes

Switched on the Truss conference speech live and tried to listen with an open mind.  I failed.  How have we stooped so low? How is it possible that such banal, incompetent, unengaging, ridiculous people get to run our country.

She wants to get Britain moving.  She may get her way.  Foreigners to Rwanda, Scottish, NI and even Welsh people to independent countries, businesses to Europe, talent to America and Asia.

What a clusterfuck

 

Edited 5 October, 2022 by The Left Back
Edit: just logged back on to discover Greenpeace have intervened and put everyone out of their misery (at least for now).  Thanks greenies, and also for asking "Who voted for this?" Well  who did vote for this?

[rallyboy]

She can't even read stuff out loud - currently banging through a greatest hits medley about scroungers, foreigners and how we lead the world in everything.

She's only making it interesting by fucking up the pauses for applause. 

 

[whelk]

Haven’t heard the speech but this lot talk about growth as if it is their new thing and all previous chancellors have wanted the economy to contract. 

[badgerx16]

Just now, whelk said:

Haven’t heard the speech but this lot talk about growth as if it is their new thing and all previous chancellors have wanted the economy to contract. 

Particularly all the Tory chancellors we have had since Cameron's coalition Government. What on Earth did George Osborne know about managing a country's finances.

[Tamesaint]

Is "growth" the  new "pork markets"? 

[Weston Super Saint]

Cheese.  Cheese will save us.  So much growth potential in cheese.  Cheese can even 'grow' it's own bacteria, that's got to count as growth right? Nurse, nurse!

I watched about 30 seconds of the speech, no idea what she was talking about, but she was looking off to her right quite nervously as if she didn't believe what she was talking about and was looking for re-assurance.

[whelk]

3 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Cheese.  Cheese will save us.  So much growth potential in cheese.  Cheese can even 'grow' it's own bacteria, that's got to count as growth right? Nurse, nurse!

I watched about 30 seconds of the speech, no idea what she was talking about, but she was looking off to her right quite nervously as if she didn't believe what she was talking about and was looking for re-assurance.

Truss believes you can grow a pie

[revolution saint]

Not seen the speech but apparently she talks about an "anti-growth coalition".  Is she talking about Brexiteers?

[Weston Super Saint]

Just now, whelk said:

Truss believes you can grow a pie

I can  

[whelk]

Ambulances on time, burglaries solved, appointments with GPs, social care….. yada yada. All by cutting tax and public services. 12 years of rule and eureka was a piece of piss to solve all along. 

[Winnersaint]

Pork Markets!! The Anti-growth Coalition, the new mythical beast on the block.

Edited 5 October, 2022 by Winnersaint

[aintforever]

has she explained how paying £500 more a month on our mortgages is going to help growth yet?

[badgerx16]

Liz Truss used "Moving on up" by M People as her walk on music.

This is the first verse

"You've done me wrong, your time is up

You took a sip from the devil's cup

You broke my heart, there's no way back

Move right out of here, baby, go on pack your bags."

 

And this is the second bridge

"Just who do you think you are?

This time you've gone too far."

[Turkish]

22 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Liz Truss used "Moving on up" by M People as her walk on music.

This is the first verse

"You've done me wrong, your time is up

You took a sip from the devil's cup

You broke my heart, there's no way back

Move right out of here, baby, go on pack your bags."

 

And this is the second bridge

"Just who do you think you are?

This time you've gone too far."

it would have been amusing if they'd gone with Moving on up by Primal Scream instead

I was blind, now I can see
You made a believer, out of me
I was blind, now I can see
You made a believer, out of me

I'm movin' on up now
Gettin' out of the darkness
My light shines on
My light shines on
My light shines on

I was lost, now I'm found
I believe in you, I've got no bounds
I was lost, now I'm found
I believe in you, I got no bounds

I'm movin' on up now
Gettin' out of the darkness
My light shines on
My light shines on
My light shines on

[rallyboy]

Truss seems to be suggesting that she and her chancellor are the only ones who wants the UK to have growth, growth, growth.

The enemy, enemy, enemy, is made up of Boris and Rishi, Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, anyone Scottish, Greenpeace - all these people are traitors who want the country to stagnate.....apparently.  🤡

As a plan it's nuts, as a PR message it's pathetic - she seems to be taking the advise of lunatics.

[Turkish]

5 hours ago, aintforever said:

has she explained how paying £500 more a month on our mortgages is going to help growth yet?

Take a Ukrainian in and she’ll give you a £350 a month grant, help the war and boost the economy by bringing in more labour. So shut your trap and get on with it

[buctootim]

3 hours ago, rallyboy said:

Truss seems to be suggesting that she and her chancellor are the only ones who wants the UK to have growth, growth, growth.

The enemy, enemy, enemy, is made up of Boris and Rishi, Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, anyone Scottish, Greenpeace - all these people are traitors who want the country to stagnate.....apparently.  🤡

As a plan it's nuts, as a PR message it's pathetic - she seems to be taking the advise of lunatics.

This BS populism has spread worse than covid the past 10 years. All you need to justify crackpot policies is some lies and someone to blame and people will lap it up.    

[saint1977]

She is really as thick as pigshit. Whether or not people agreed with Thatcher’s policies, she was very bright but capable of being pragmatic and had real opponents who had made the 1970s very challenging for both main parties - union extremists, a much more potent USSR, economy stagnating with inflation soaring and already receiving monetarist-led policies to some extent post-IMF in 1976. The same policies simply aren’t needed today as they were then and there’s no mandate whatsoever for them after the election of a One Nation Tory admisinistration in 2019. The only coup (Braverman) is Truss’s. 

Liz just had imagined ones that her culture war mates talk about - BBC, NHS, George Osborne/Philip Hammond/Rishi Sunak, all Remainers, scientists, all educational and learning establishments, public sector, charities, other parties, emaciated unions weaker than Mann’s Brown Ale. The biggest opposition she has is Brexit - if you want to grow the economy overnight rejoin the Single Market FFS - and subsequently because of their views on Brexit (and she was a remainer btw) she has the most dense and talentless cabinet you could possibly pick. Whilst Sunak, Gove, Javid, Hunt and others with cabinet experience in pressure situations who can read, write and count sit on the backbenches. 

By contrast she has selected a lunatic in the Home Office, although lol for finding someone even worse than ‘Priti Awful’ (Alan Duncan), Coffey as Health Minister who doesn’t believe in a reproductive rights, a Business Secretary in charge of enabling the growth of green industries and technologies who doesn’t believe in man made climate change and who has made a fortune out of Brexit (insider trading anyone?), a Skills Minister whose only skill is moving her middle finger up and who can’t speak English, a CoE who doesn’t understand economics.

I could go on but it’s depressing how low this country has sank. We used to have Thatcher, Baker, Clarke, Heseltine (my favourite politician), Brittain, Hurd, Howe, Rifkind, Blair, Brown, Mowlam, Mandelson, D Miliband, Burnham, Straw, Osborne, Willetts, Cable, Laws, Hammond as our senior politicians. Had their faults but compare it now. Even Teddy Taylor and Theresa Gorman would have got a go at a cabinet post with this lot and probably done better. It’s like Saints dropping into the National League having been a founder PL member. I guess it’s how Oldham FC feels. 

Truss is an inverse Corbyn, Kwarteng is an inverse McDonnell, you can decide which minister in this shower is Dianne Abbot or Jon Lansley. The Mail editors are Owen Jones. Let’s make sure the result is an inverse 2019, not 2017 as these cunts don’t deserve any help or hope. 

 

Edited 5 October, 2022 by saint1977

[Turkish]

4 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Liz Truss used "Moving on up" by M People as her walk on music.

This is the first verse

"You've done me wrong, your time is up

You took a sip from the devil's cup

You broke my heart, there's no way back

Move right out of here, baby, go on pack your bags."

 

And this is the second bridge

"Just who do you think you are?

This time you've gone too far."

https://inews.co.uk/news/m-people-song-moving-on-up-liz-truss-soundtrack-tory-conference-speech-1895350?ico=related_stories 🤣🤣

absolutely slaughtered on the ITV evening news, “coming on stage moving on up shes starting so low that’s the only way to go” 🤣🤣

“Her party did its best to look supportive”

”an attempt to relate to voters, first prime minister to go to a comprehensive school, she’s not even the first conservative to go to one”

”the chancellor couldn’t wait to leave quickly enough”

Then interviewing the MP who said we’ve now go Theresa May.

rounding off with her next battle is to stay in power long enough so people remember her name 🤣🤣🤣

she’s having a mare has there even been a new prime minister who is such a laughing stock?

 

Edited 5 October, 2022 by Turkish

[suewhistle]

3 hours ago, saint1977 said:

Truss is an inverse Corbyn, Kwarteng is an inverse McDonnell, you can decide which minister in this shower is Dianne Abbot or Jon Lansley. The Mail editors are Owen Jones. Let’s make sure the result is an inverse 2019, not 2017 as these cunts don’t deserve any help or hope. 

Steady on! 🙂 I wasn't keen on Corbyn and Owen Jones can be a bit right on and annoying, but I'd be tremendously annoyed if I were regarded as the inverse of any of the current crop of, let's be honest, cultish and viciously right wing Tories. The current lot have no regard for anyone but themselves and their paymasters, and all the empathy of a Great White in front of a juicy seal.

[whelk]

13 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

Steady on! 🙂 I wasn't keen on Corbyn and Owen Jones can be a bit right on and annoying, but I'd be tremendously annoyed if I were regarded as the inverse of any of the current crop of, let's be honest, cultish and viciously right wing Tories. The current lot have no regard for anyone but themselves and their paymasters, and all the empathy of a Great White in front of a juicy seal.

That is the point they were cultish and left wing and made them unelectable. Truss and Kwarteng doing the same. This exact point was made by one of the editors at Mail or Telegraph I think according to Emily Maitlis. Btw The Newsagents is a decent podcast with her Jon Sopel and Lewis Goodall.

[badgerx16]

According to the front page of the Telegraph, the freeze on lifting tax thresholds introduced by Rishi Sunak will leave 'average households" nearly £1500 worse off over the next 2-3 years, and the proportions of people paying tax at either the basic rate or higher rate will reach record levels. It also says that even JRM is in favour of raising benefits in line with inflation.

Edited 6 October, 2022 by badgerx16

[whelk]

6 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

According to the front page of the Telegraph, the freeze on lifting tax thresholds introduced by Rishi Sunak will leave 'average households" nearly £1500 worse off over the next 2-3 years, and the proportions of people paying tax at either the basic rate or higher rate will reach record levels. It also says that even JRM is in favour of raising benefits in line with inflation.

Yeah they get away with this as no snappy headline. They should publish how many people on PAYE are now paying 40% rate. And the impact on tax receipts with comparison of when frozen and if uplifted. Fortunes more being collected from people who are hardly earning a fortune

[rallyboy]

The real winners this week appear to be M People.

No one bothered to ask permission to use the song, no one checked the lyrics, no one checked out the left wing views of the song writer, no one realised the singer is an anti-government activist and no one clocked that her son is a Labour councillor.

It was an epic own goal that just distracts from any positives Truss was trying to conjure up - and the song isn't that great either.

0/10 for attention to detail.

[Tamesaint]

You know that we have an extremist government when Nadine Dorris accuses it of "lurching to the right". 😁😁😁

[whelk]

 

[Turkish]

I expect soggy is knocking one out over this meanwhile every other guardian reader doesn’t even take the guardian seriously these days 

[saint1977]

10 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

You know that we have an extremist government when Nadine Dorris accuses it of "lurching to the right". 😁😁😁

Economically the Johnson government wasn’t overly right wing, arguably Brown and Blair were more economically right wing and Osborne/Cameron definitely were. That was a large part of the appeal to the Red Wall eg levelling up agenda, investment in R&D and infrastructure. They were socially conservative which with the Save Big Dog’s Dick crap became populist with the needless C4 sell off, Williamson the moron and Priti Awful but economically centrist. Pity about Brexit and the Big Dog stuff as otherwise I could have comfortably lived with them but they shit the bed over COVID and so many other things through lack of focus and detail.

Truss is equally socially populist, probably more so with the tossers she’s appointed, but economically way more right wing. So something that I do agree with Mad Nads on, for the first and only time.

Edited 6 October, 2022 by saint1977

[saint1977]

Meanwhile, Liz’s chief cheerleaders have got a lot more on their plate. They are seemingly already well on the way to losing the Markle case https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63164654

These people, not least Elton John, have got deep pockets. If they go under, their readers won’t notice any difference with the Express through their letterbox.

Edited 6 October, 2022 by saint1977

[skintsaint]

[rallyboy]

Just made the mistake of asking a local shopkeeper how it's going...

The brief version was - energy bills have tripled overnight, leaving an unsustainable business model.

Are the already battered UK high streets about to empty?

This doesn't look like growth.

 

[Sheaf Saint]

 

 

[saint1977]

More internal strife leaking out into the open his morning - JRM and Truss at war over energy saving messaging over the winter - and Braverman and Truss over the latter’s plans to increase skilled migration and the former’s obsession with stopping it almost altogether. Added to the revolt over benefits inflation and the mini budget and Conor Burns suspension they are in total free fall. 

[rallyboy]

I'm staggered, she looked such a good candidate.

The membership have done a top job, they should definitely be trusted with all big decisions.

 

[Tamesaint]

1 hour ago, saint1977 said:

More internal strife leaking out into the open his morning - JRM and Truss at war over energy saving messaging over the winter - and Braverman and Truss over the latter’s plans to increase skilled migration and the former’s obsession with stopping it almost altogether. Added to the revolt over benefits inflation and the mini budget and Conor Burns suspension they are in total free fall. 

 Braverman's stance on immigration doesn't help the emphasis on growth. Conflict between her and Truss on this issue is inevitable. 

[buctootim]

5 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

 Braverman's stance on immigration doesn't help the emphasis on growth. Conflict between her and Truss on this issue is inevitable. 

Regardless of the rights or wrongs of the Braverman Truss thing high level immigration tends to lead to overall GDP growth (ie the headline 'wow look at how were roaring along' growth figures) whilst GDP per capita figure actually declines.  

Edited 8 October, 2022 by buctootim

[Tamesaint]

4 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Regardless of the rights or wrongs of the Braverman Truss thing high level immigration tends to lead to overall GDP growth (ie the headline 'wow look at how were roaring along' growth figures) whilst GDP per capita figure actually declines.  

On a per capita basis that is true but the current labour shortage is going to be a major obstacle to Liz's dream of "growth, growth,growth". I can see a Suella u turn on the horizon.

[buctootim]

3 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

On a per capita basis that is true but the current labour shortage is going to be a major obstacle to Liz's dream of "growth, growth,growth". I can see a Suella u turn on the horizon.

Thats only a policy for saps though. You can get economic growth by opening up sweatshops paying £3ph to imported labour - but it doesnt actually benefit the country in any way because you have higher social costs than the wealth generated. 

Depends whether you want to fool people that your growth policy is working or whether you want to improve the incomes and wellbeing of existing residents  

[whelk]

All parties should elect their leader by MP votes. Staggering these old cunts that pay a fiver a month somehow dictate our democracy. Apply the same to Labour getting that twat Corbyn in. Zealots killing their own parties

[The Kraken]

5 hours ago, whelk said:

All parties should elect their leader by MP votes. Staggering these old cunts that pay a fiver a month somehow dictate our democracy. Apply the same to Labour getting that twat Corbyn in. Zealots killing their own parties

I’d be happy enough with party members electing their own party leader, if there was a rule that there needs to be a general election if a new leader is required. For all the talk of “you vote for your MP and not the PM”, that’s not true for the vast majority of voters. Also, more importantly, changing a PM is never just changing one person at the top, it’s a root and branch change throughout cabinet and beyond.

I vote Labour these days but I was never a fan of the way Gordon Brown engineered his way into the PM seat, I thought it was underhand and he should have been seen to win an election. For all Johnson’s faults as I see them, he was elected on a manifesto. Getting Truss is the worst possible example to use, but it reinforces my belief: new party leader = new election.

Edited 8 October, 2022 by The Kraken

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, The Kraken said:

I’d be happy enough with party members electing their own party leader, if there was a rule that there needs to be a general election if a new leader is required. 

So if the PM dies, does that trigger a GE? What if he wants to step down due to ill health, like Harold Wilson, General Election? What if he does a Biden and starts to lose the plot but the grey suits don’t want an election so prop him up. Isn’t that worse for democracy than a majority of representatives wanting a different leader. 
 

The party leader that has the confidence of the house and can form a Government , is PM. If people don’t understand that, it’s their issue. We send people to represent us in Parliament, they decide who the PM is.

Edited 8 October, 2022 by Lord Duckhunter

[whelk]

9 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

So if the PM dies, does that trigger a GE? What if he wants to step down due to ill health, like Harold Wilson, General Election? What if he does a Biden and starts to lose the plot but the grey suits don’t want an election so prop him up. Isn’t that worse for democracy than a majority of representatives wanting a different leader. 
 

The party leader that has the confidence of the house and can form a Government , is PM. If people don’t understand that, it’s their issue. We send people to represent us in Parliament, they decide who the PM is.

Thick twat

[The Kraken]

14 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

So if the PM dies, does that trigger a GE? What if he wants to step down due to ill health, like Harold Wilson, General Election? What if he does a Biden and starts to lose the plot but the grey suits don’t want an election so prop him up. Isn’t that worse for democracy than a majority of representatives wanting a different leader. 
 

The party leader that has the confidence of the house and can form a Government , is PM. If people don’t understand that, it’s their issue. We send people to represent us in Parliament, they decide who the PM is.

In the case of Wilson, yes, I think that should trigger a GE. Biden is a US president, that’s different. Not worth a comment.

People understand the system; that they disagree with it is something entirely different.

Your last sentence is a bit arse about face. We send people to represent us in parliament based upon the fact that we know who the leaders of the parties are, and what they represent.  Nobody elected the thousands of Tory party members who just decided who the new PM is. In fact, the very Tory MPs who you say “decide who the PM is” were in a majority for Sunak. So your last statement is demonstratively utter pony, Truss is PM despite the MPs and because of the member vote. You knew that, surely!

 

 

Edited 8 October, 2022 by The Kraken