Tyler Dibling

[Dusic]

Seems like it will be difficult to keep him, as Ralph indicated:

https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/football-news/ralph-hasenhuttl-tyler-dibling-southampton-7011150

Totally understand that for various reasons we aren't in the business of chucking money at kids (although Lavia isnt a huge amount older and will doubtless be very well paid) but equally a kick in the teeth as clearly a massive talent who isnt that far from first team involvement. As we know well at Saints the best players do tend to debut at 16-18.

Lets hope he sees more of a pathway with us, but reports seem to indicate its very close.

Will be interesting to see when we announce the new round of scholars as he would ordinarily be part of that alongside JJ Morgan.

https://www.midweekherald.co.uk/sport/premier-league-contract-for-local-footballer-8420034

From what Ive read he was offered a scholarship with an automatic pro deal a while back, but seemingly never signed it?

Another reason for the end of the season being so frustrated as in other circumstances could have given him some minutes.

Edited 29 June, 2022 by Dusic

[Saint_clark]

For all our talk of the pathway there hasn't really been much of one for youth team players for quite some time now. Smallbone is probably the best in the last 5 seasons at least and he's just turned 22 and is potentially going out on loan, so hasn't really done that well. 

Our pathway seems to be more of an on-ramp for youngsters from other teams.

[WinchesterSaint]

JJ Morgan also not signed his scholarship deal yet.

[SuperSAINT]

This was always the concern after they were so bloody good 

[ally_uk]

Can't we protect the contract with a minimum release cause? 

Or match what Newcastle are offering?

 

Seems a bit daft to let him go looks a real prospect. 

[SNSUN]

47 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

For all our talk of the pathway there hasn't really been much of one for youth team players for quite some time now. Smallbone is probably the best in the last 5 seasons at least and he's just turned 22 and is potentially going out on loan, so hasn't really done that well. 

Our pathway seems to be more of an on-ramp for youngsters from other teams.

In a summer when we seem to be overhauling the squad with players like Redmond and Djenepo supposedly up for sale, should we get rid of them it leaves Moi, Armstrong and Tella as number 10s. Even if we bring in one or two AMs, there are still plenty of opportunities for our youth players to get some game time, even if it is in the cups. Yes Dibling is 16 but we seem to be the team that trusts young players right now.

 

As has been said already, joining the richest club in the world that could buy pretty much any attacking midfielder they wanted in the next few years, if he leaves us for them he may find his pathway blocked. I really hope he's not doing it for money but that seems to be the case. It'd be nice if we could push the boat out maybe and give him a good offer to stay - especially when his wage would be peanuts compared to, say, renewing Long's contract.

Edited 29 June, 2022 by SNSUN

[HKsaint]

I remember Mane scored a hat-trick against Liverpool. Next year, he became a Liverpool player. Now, this young guy did the same to Newcastle. Should we forbid our player to score a hat-trick again? 

[Master Bates]

Newcastle also wanting Cami Doyle apparently.

[egg]

1 hour ago, HKsaint said:

I remember Mane scored a hat-trick against Liverpool. Next year, he became a Liverpool player. Now, this young guy did the same to Newcastle. Should we forbid our player to score a hat-trick again? 

Yep. Sub them at two goals. Or shoot them. Risky otherwise.

[egg]

8 hours ago, ally_uk said:

Can't we protect the contract with a minimum release cause? 

Or match what Newcastle are offering?

 

Seems a bit daft to let him go looks a real prospect. 

If we give one promising kid a million quid over 3 years (plus, I suspect, other sweeteners to them and their parents) there'll all want them. Sometimes in business you just have to say no. 

[tajjuk]

We might be able to up his already offered contract a bit but I doubt we'll match what Newcastle are offering, plus they'll probably just throw more money at him. It's a sad indication of where football is really that basically Saudi Arabia is throwing millions at a child. 

You'd hope maybe he sees the longer picture if he's well advised especially as he has already been training with the first team, I mean pretty obvious he'll make his first team debut if he stays with us this year and you have all these young players at bigger clubs moving away to find better routes to football. 

[ally_uk]

Can we at least just say look wait until preseason  if you impress us we will give you a run out in the 1st team... 

 

 

[egg]

2 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

Can we at least just say look wait until preseason  if you impress us we will give you a run out in the 1st team... 

 

 

The thing is, Ralph hasn't been using these promising 16 year olds, not even token bench spots at the end of the season. All we can give these kids over other clubs is first team football and if we're not delivering on that, they may as well go somewhere else where they won't get it either but will get more cash, and their parents well looked after.  

[Saint Garrett]

Wasn’t Dibling on the bench a few times at the end of the season? Certainly was Brentford away. 

I wouldn’t want us to offer him that kind of money anyway, so if that’s what he’s in the game for then feel free to leave. 

[saintwbu]

Can’t blame the kid for taking the money at his age, but likewise can’t blame the club for not trying to match anything Newcastle are offering. Don’t think this move reflects bad on either party. We’ve lost plenty of talented youngsters over the years, like most clubs have, but we’ve had plenty of successes and hopefully plenty more to come.

[egg]

3 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

Wasn’t Dibling on the bench a few times at the end of the season? Certainly was Brentford away. 

I wouldn’t want us to offer him that kind of money anyway, so if that’s what he’s in the game for then feel free to leave. 

Not that I can see. Wasn't on the bench at Brentford or any of the last 3 games.

[Saint Garrett]

8 minutes ago, egg said:

Not that I can see. Wasn't on the bench at Brentford or any of the last 3 games.

 

[Bad Wolf]

I want him to stay but if the lad can get that sort of money at his age, fair play to him!

[st alex]

Are we going to get stuck in a loop whereby other PL clubs sign our promising youngsters for peanuts only for us to then buy them 3 years on for £10m+.

Chelsea have already signed Eddie Beach off of us this summer, so he's presumably very good. And with our goalkeeping situation could have been not too far off the first team.

It feels like current trend is heading the way of us spending big money on Man City and Chelsea youngsters at 18-20yrs and then Chelsea Newcastle etc signing our youth players at 16-18yrs for not very much.

[egg]

9 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

 

That's really odd... fantasy I team didn't list him...

[Mowgli]

23 minutes ago, st alex said:

Are we going to get stuck in a loop whereby other PL clubs sign our promising youngsters for peanuts only for us to then buy them 3 years on for £10m+.

Chelsea have already signed Eddie Beach off of us this summer, so he's presumably very good. And with our goalkeeping situation could have been not too far off the first team.

It feels like current trend is heading the way of us spending big money on Man City and Chelsea youngsters at 18-20yrs and then Chelsea Newcastle etc signing our youth players at 16-18yrs for not very much.

At 18 he’d be way too short to be anywhere near first team. Very promising future but several years off his full height yet.

[st alex]

18 minutes ago, egg said:

That's really odd... fantasy I team didn't list him...

BBC lists him.

[Chris cooper]

27 minutes ago, st alex said:

Are we going to get stuck in a loop whereby other PL clubs sign our promising youngsters for peanuts only for us to then buy them 3 years on for £10m+.

Chelsea have already signed Eddie Beach off of us this summer, so he's presumably very good. And with our goalkeeping situation could have been not too far off the first team.

It feels like current trend is heading the way of us spending big money on Man City and Chelsea youngsters at 18-20yrs and then Chelsea Newcastle etc signing our youth players at 16-18yrs for not very much.

That’s bang on the money 👍🏻

[Restark19]

3 hours ago, HKsaint said:

I remember Mane scored a hat-trick against Liverpool. Next year, he became a Liverpool player. Now, this young guy did the same to Newcastle. Should we forbid our player to score a hat-trick again? 

Not much danger of anyone in the first team managing it any time soon! 

[EBS1980]

14 minutes ago, Chris cooper said:

That’s bang on the money 👍🏻

It’s all about budgets again though isn’t it. Chelsea, City, now Newcastle etc all owned by very wealthy people who invest alot more right down the chain. So they can go and hoover up the talent at 15/16 by offering bigger fees and salaries. 
 

if we put more into this level of the club it would be at the expense of I imagine the first team.

[Dman]

16 minutes ago, EBS1980 said:

It’s all about budgets again though isn’t it. Chelsea, City, now Newcastle etc all owned by very wealthy people who invest alot more right down the chain. So they can go and hoover up the talent at 15/16 by offering bigger fees and salaries. 
 

if we put more into this level of the club it would be at the expense of I imagine the first team.

I’d be genuinely interested to know if the likes of Chelsea, city etc. Make or lose money on their academy players. 

Yes they pay a lot, but they also then tend to sell them on which seems to help fund their first team. 
 

I’m not saying we will or should, but if we were to match the big boys in terms of salary (6k in the grand scheme of things is a drop in the ocean), it might mean down the line we don’t need to sale first team players.. 

 

That being said, they’re selling to the likes of us, so I don’t know who we’d sell the ones we don’t want to 

[tunit]

Makes you think whether we should be putting players like Doyle, Dibling, Diamond Edwards etc. straight into the first team. They cant be too far off Djenepo, Elyonoussi at the moment and if it means keeping them it may be worth it

[Highfield Saint]

There are two players apparently. Doyle is the second name mentioned

[Dman]

4 minutes ago, tunit said:

Makes you think whether we should be putting players like Doyle, Dibling, Diamond Edwards etc. straight into the first team. They cant be too far off Djenepo, Elyonoussi at the moment and if it means keeping them it may be worth it

As poor as they may be, a 16 year old (unless a total freak I.e Rooney) would be way below the level of them. 

[Chris cooper]

49 minutes ago, EBS1980 said:

It’s all about budgets again though isn’t it. Chelsea, City, now Newcastle etc all owned by very wealthy people who invest alot more right down the chain. So they can go and hoover up the talent at 15/16 by offering bigger fees and salaries. 
 

if we put more into this level of the club it would be at the expense of I imagine the first team.

£6,500 a week for a 16 yr old is outrageous! 
 

none of us would turn that down and good luck to him.

that’s the reality of wots tainted and making it unfair in the premier league.

The 5 sub rule is a another example.

City, Liverpool and Chelsea only normally use two subs a game, but wen they come up against a hardworking well drilled outfit of 11 players who have deserved a point or maybe even 3, 

These clubs  can just throw on 5 world class players all over the park and the tiring team who could have handled the 2/3 subs have to now compete with 5.. 

klipperty and pleb get wot the want yet again .

 

Edited 30 June, 2022 by Chris cooper

[Saint86]

18 minutes ago, Chris cooper said:

£6,500 a week for a 16 yr old is outrageous! 
 

none of us would turn that down and good luck to him.

that’s the reality of wots tainted and making it unfair in the premier league.

The 5 sub rule is a another example.

City, Liverpool and Chelsea only normally use two subs a game, but wen they come up against a hardworking well drilled outfit of 11 players who have deserved a point or maybe even 3, 

These clubs  can just throw on 5 world class players all over the park and the tiring team who could have handled the 2/3 subs have to now compete with 5.. 

klipperty and pleb get wot the want yet again .

 

I don't know if it actually makes that much difference.

Ultimatley its a league and over the course of the season you expect the top clubs to beat the bottom clubs, and then incrementally the better squads and managers will fill in the table in order. With no subs you'd expect to lose to city, and with 3 subs you'd expect to lose to them. I don't think it will actually make that much difference. We need to focus on outperforming the teams at our level (and we can't sit here and say that say Crystal Palace have a bunch of world class players to bring in off the bench). Do this well and combine with clever player trading - and we will incrementally improve and move up the table. 

Also, an awful lot had been made about how this change will benefit man City. Will it? Or does it actually benefit teams with a limited number of key players? Having 5 subs means clubs at our level can better protect their key players over congested runs - and also offer more game time / experience around the squad. 

In short, I am not convinced it's the poisoned change people make it out to be. 

Edited 30 June, 2022 by Saint86

[modern matron]

https://www.nufcblog.co.uk/2022/06/30/exclusive-newcastle-close-in-on-double-deal-for-two-highly-rated-southampton-teenagers/

 

Worrying?

[Dusic]

34 minutes ago, Highfield Saint said:

Just now, modern matron said:

https://www.nufcblog.co.uk/2022/06/30/exclusive-newcastle-close-in-on-double-deal-for-two-highly-rated-southampton-teenagers/

 

Worrying?

 

Not overly sure I believe that. Doyle was pictured by the Saints social media yesterday and also posted a pic of him in the new kit on his IG. 

Might not mean anything but woukld be odd if he were just about to quit.

[daldridge7]

I know it’s out of our hands but taking 2 feels like they are taking the piss. We can’t go on about having a great pathway if we don’t fight to keep the players. Our 18s team is looking like it’s being picked apart, unsurprisingly. I can’t imagine saints will offer anywhere near the money they will get at other clubs to be fair to the kids. What is also annoying in addition to losing our nest youngsters is watching rival teams like Leeds, Palace, and Villa absolutely boss academy recruitment while we don’t even appear to be in the picture. With an academy team doing so well at u18, you would have thought this was their best opportunity to do some poaching of their own. 

[Dr. Kucho]

1 minute ago, daldridge7 said:

I know it’s out of our hands but taking 2 feels like they are taking the piss. We can’t go on about having a great pathway if we don’t fight to keep the players. Our 18s team is looking like it’s being picked apart, unsurprisingly. I can’t imagine saints will offer anywhere near the money they will get at other clubs to be fair to the kids. What is also annoying in addition to losing our nest youngsters is watching rival teams like Leeds, Palace, and Villa absolutely boss academy recruitment while we don’t even appear to be in the picture. With an academy team doing so well at u18, you would have thought this was their best opportunity to do some poaching of their own. 

Aren’t we signing the bloke who does the scouting for City’s academy? 

[tajjuk]

That report already seems doubtful when they are suggesting a 16 year old is 'out of contract next year' when they can't even sign contracts yet.........

[daldridge7]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Kucho said:

Aren’t we signing the bloke who does the scouting for City’s academy? 

I see your point but he doesn’t come till the end of summer, maybe he will bring with him some fresh blood too. What I meant was this is happening right now and it’s frustrating to watch. 

[Saint Garrett]

Pretty sure there isn't much the club can do to keep them, they don't have contracts, they can go whereever they want. It just ends up at a tribunal if the clubs can't agree a deal I think.

I don't think the club can just turn down offers from newcastle, as they dont have to make one.

[stevy777_x]

Seems a completely non footballing decision if they move to clubs such as Newcastle, with our current recruitment policy i fully expect us to be giving youngsters loads if game time. If they had a head it would be a no brainer for them to stay, money or no money

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, daldridge7 said:

I know it’s out of our hands but taking 2 feels like they are taking the piss. We can’t go on about having a great pathway if we don’t fight to keep the players. Our 18s team is looking like it’s being picked apart, unsurprisingly. I can’t imagine saints will offer anywhere near the money they will get at other clubs to be fair to the kids. What is also annoying in addition to losing our nest youngsters is watching rival teams like Leeds, Palace, and Villa absolutely boss academy recruitment while we don’t even appear to be in the picture. With an academy team doing so well at u18, you would have thought this was their best opportunity to do some poaching of their own. 

I get some of what you are saying, but what you have to remember regarding youth players is that they aren't signed to normal contracts as first team players - so we can't just stand our ground and rejeect bids, as it's not subject to a bid. Clubs can just approach youth players and then battle it out in tribunal. it's a flaw with the youth system and giving the club a little more power with their U16's etc would stop all this poaching.

I think we were fairly active in bolstering our U23's and u18's last summer, Nico Lawrence came in and we also spent a fee on Will Armatige - they went into the U18 set up, so it's not fair to say we're not in the picture. I think ideally with us we prefer to get a player young and nurture them all the way through rather than concentrating on signing pre-made youth players from all over the country for our u18's.  Some of our best players (Bale, Shaw, Chamberlain, Theo) were all at the club from a very, very young age.

[Dman]

18 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

Seems a completely non footballing decision if they move to clubs such as Newcastle, with our current recruitment policy i fully expect us to be giving youngsters loads if game time. If they had a head it would be a no brainer for them to stay, money or no money

Yes and no. He could also go to Newcastle, earn enough money to basically be set for life and in 4 years time break into a side who are competing for the title. 
 

If he doesn’t, then he’d likely still get a PL move anyway. 

[Sheaf Saint]

32 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

Pretty sure there isn't much the club can do to keep them, they don't have contracts, they can go whereever they want. It just ends up at a tribunal if the clubs can't agree a deal I think.

I don't think the club can just turn down offers from newcastle, as they dont have to make one.

Exactly. This is how we were able to sign Thierry Small last year. We didn't have to offer Everton anything. We tried to negotiate a development fee with them but, inevitably, they wanted more than we were willing to pay so it went to tribunal. There was nothing they could have done to keep the player once he had made his mind up to leave.

[Daft Kerplunk]

If he’s as good as people are saying, then the club should be offering a similar deal plus a clear route to the first team. At least the latter as Newcastle won’t be able to compete with that unless they are taking a different approach than the one people expect. Would be far more intelligent not to spunk tonnes on older talent and build with youth. 

Not much point in the academy if we lose the talent we have actually developed and just buy it in. Brentford model anyone?

[The Left Back]

I think we need to calm down about this.  I'm no expert on academy wages, but I do know that Chelsea aren't paying their 16 and 17 year olds that much.  So if it's true (and that's a big if) I don't agree we should match the offer and keep him.  It's not sustainable to run a business like ours that way.

On the whole it seems to me we do ok in the back and forth of talent between academies.  There's so much going on with players, parents, agents that I don't think we are in a position to judge the implications of this move (and I say again if it happens).

Dibling looks a decent prospect from the very little footage I've seen but he's a long way off yet. If he is making career choices based on the biggest number at 16 then that's up to him, but it doesn't mean we should play that game.  

This whole story says more about Newcastle than it does us, so I for one don't see anything to worry about overall.

[Mystic Force]

Well another avenue of success is blocked off by the wealthiest clubs. Why invest in developing talent when the best will be cherry picked by the big boys who can offer more money, and do not have to worry if it doesnt work out, because they have enough cash. The win more system will eventually eat itself I hope. Beating up on chumps loses the appeal if they are too chumpy.

[Matthew Le God]

5 hours ago, modern matron said:

https://www.nufcblog.co.uk/2022/06/30/exclusive-newcastle-close-in-on-double-deal-for-two-highly-rated-southampton-teenagers/

 

Worrying?

 

Edited 30 June, 2022 by Matthew Le God

[Holmes_and_Watson]

5 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I get some of what you are saying, but what you have to remember regarding youth players is that they aren't signed to normal contracts as first team players - so we can't just stand our ground and rejeect bids, as it's not subject to a bid. Clubs can just approach youth players and then battle it out in tribunal. it's a flaw with the youth system and giving the club a little more power with their U16's etc would stop all this poaching.

I think we were fairly active in bolstering our U23's and u18's last summer, Nico Lawrence came in and we also spent a fee on Will Armatige - they went into the U18 set up, so it's not fair to say we're not in the picture. I think ideally with us we prefer to get a player young and nurture them all the way through rather than concentrating on signing pre-made youth players from all over the country for our u18's.  Some of our best players (Bale, Shaw, Chamberlain, Theo) were all at the club from a very, very young age.

Agree with this. We've certainly benefited from the development players have had at other clubs. We're also developing potential talent that top clubs are keen on.

It's a very big decision for youth players to make. Dibling might just be going for the cash, feeling he can move on at a good level in a few years. Maybe, he sees a genuine pathway at a Newcastle in transition. If their set up is inferior, he'll have to risk it either changing quickly, or not denting his development.

Whatever the reason, we should only be offering what's within our structure. As mentioned before, we would soon have to be offering silly amounts to any number of promising talents, of whom only a fraction would be making the grade with us.

[Sarisbury Saint]

3 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

 

Doesn’t mean anything.

[WinchesterSaint]

A friend of mines son has just signed his scholarship at Saints so I hear little bits about how it all works.

The tapping up of these young lads happens all the time at this age as they can all move clubs now with very little their clubs can do about it apart from a development fee.

The parents are also offered various inducements to move their boys to other clubs.

I thought this was not allowed however it appears to be relatively common. It must be difficult to police and prove but I’m sure most clubs operate in the same way.

Saints will lose boys and gain them as has happened in previous years.

The parents have a huge role to play, they need to try and see the bigger picture for their boys and that staying at Saints means they have a great chance of playing first team football sooner rather than later. However this is counteracted by the £££ on offer by other clubs.

Its a tough choice for the boys and their parents. Short term riches or long term gain !

 

[The Kraken]

2 minutes ago, WinchesterSaint said:

The parents have a huge role to play, they need to try and see the bigger picture for their boys and that staying at Saints means they have a great chance of playing first team football sooner rather than later. However this is counteracted by the £££ on offer by other clubs.

Its a tough choice for the boys and their parents. Short term riches or long term gain !

There’s two sides to the coin. Saints might provide first team chances sooner. But young players at big clubs are going to be in the spotlight more, and likely more attractive as a transfer at age 19 or 20 than a Saints academy player could be. Look at Man City’s lads, the cream of the crop get a good shot in their first team, the rung just below are being coveted by multi million pound transfer fees.

The reports say that this lad has been offered £6500 a week, so more than a million over a 4 year deal. There may also be inducements such as a job for his relatives if they move with him. So financially the kid could get a huge leg up, have 4 years not making the first team, but still have genuine prospects of finding a club at the end of that in the PL aged just 20. Parents would be wrong to just ignore that, as much as we want the players to stay with us. If Dibling doesn’t turn out to be the second coming, is he better off with us or with a bigger club? Hard to say either way but as a parent looking out for my kid in the short and long term, I’d definitely be swayed by the offer. If he turns out to be good enough he’ll make it wherever he goes, so the short term cash injection is security in the bank just in case he doesn’t.