Adam Armstrong Loan?

[Mr X]

There's talk of Adam Armstrong being loaned to a championship side, can see it being made permanent to be honest as we may see that he can get back to scoring ways in the championship & then come back to us and be no better? Thoughts?

Should we cash in on him? 

[SuperSAINT]

Possible if he accepted the drop... If we got 2 strikers in... & found a team who had the clout to pay 100% of wages (Watford).

[MarkSFC]

I dont see the benefit of loaning AA if we do not bring in 2 strikers. Kaladsik (or however its spelt!) and Delap, with Adams, and possibly this Ballard kid might be enough but is that better than what we had last season with AA Adams Broja and Long? 

Possibly it is. Probably can't be much worse!! 

Even if we don't loan or sell AA we need at least one "established" striker who has as good a chance of hitting the ground running as possible.

 

[AlexLaw76]

  On 26/06/2022 at 09:36, MarkSFC said:

I dont see the benefit of loaning AA if we do not bring in 2 strikers. Kaladsik (or however its spelt!) and Delap, with Adams, and possibly this Ballard kid might be enough but is that better than what we had last season with AA Adams Broja and Long? 

Possibly it is. Probably can't be much worse!! 

Even if we don't loan or sell AA we need at least one "established" striker who has as good a chance of hitting the ground running as possible.

 

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Longy for another 12 months?  Then the prolific Tella?

[Mr X]

  On 26/06/2022 at 09:36, MarkSFC said:

I dont see the benefit of loaning AA if we do not bring in 2 strikers. Kaladsik (or however its spelt!) and Delap, with Adams, and possibly this Ballard kid might be enough but is that better than what we had last season with AA Adams Broja and Long? 

Possibly it is. Probably can't be much worse!! 

Even if we don't loan or sell AA we need at least one "established" striker who has as good a chance of hitting the ground running as possible.

 

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This is true would definitely need some cover in the striking department first, how do you see the signing of Armstrong? Still potential to come good or the championship is his level?

[sadoldgit]

Surely he is not going to adjust to playing in the EPL unless he plays in the EPL (with either us or another EPL team). Can’t see the point of him going to the Championship on loan. So he scores a few goals and gets his confidence back but you would assume he had plenty of confidence when signing from Blackburn. One of his problems seemed to be taking half a second longer in getting his shots away in the Prem, in other words, not shooting as instinctively as he did for Blackburn. Hopefully the new coaching team can sort this out and we will get the goal scorer we thought we had signed. Ralph has intimated that he is a long term project. 

[SW5 SAINT]

  On 26/06/2022 at 09:15, Mr X said:

There's talk of Adam Armstrong being loaned to a championship side, can see it being made permanent to be honest as we may see that he can get back to scoring ways in the championship & then come back to us and be no better? Thoughts?

Should we cash in on him? 

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I don’t think it will be permanent if/when we are relegated to the Championship at the end of the season. His Championship skills will be invaluable to Southampton should they end up there…..

[Teddeer]

Don't think Ralph's tactics suited him last season. I can't recall him missing shedloads of chances because he simply didn't get the service that he needs. I still think he's a good finisher but you have to play the right system to get the best out of him - we didn't so not sure how we expected him to score goals.

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 26/06/2022 at 10:08, Teddeer said:

Don't think Ralph's tactics suited him last season. I can't recall him missing shedloads of chances because he simply didn't get the service that he needs. I still think he's a good finisher but you have to play the right system to get the best out of him - we didn't so not sure how we expected him to score goals.

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I’ve liked what little I’ve seen. Ralph’s system doesn’t allow for smash ‘n grabs or systematic overloads of the opposition. Playing five at the back doesn’t help either. No support for anybody who happens to be up front and the midfield is getting overloaded and struggling to keep its head above water.

[MarkSFC]

  On 26/06/2022 at 09:42, Mr X said:

This is true would definitely need some cover in the striking department first, how do you see the signing of Armstrong? Still potential to come good or the championship is his level?

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It was a punt, a reasonable one, that so far hasn't worked out. 

I dont think he will make it at Premier League level with us. 

[Matthew Le God]

  On 26/06/2022 at 09:15, Mr X said:

There's talk of Adam Armstrong being loaned to a championship side, can see it being made permanent to be honest as we may see that he can get back to scoring ways in the championship & then come back to us and be no better? Thoughts?

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We already know he can score a lot of goals in the Championship, so I don't see how another season for him at that level will particularly help him in the PL if he returns next summer. He just looks out of his depth in the PL.

[ally_uk]

I don't rate him personally I'd try and sell to Middlesbrough... 

 

[Mr X]

  On 26/06/2022 at 11:50, MarkSFC said:

It was a punt, a reasonable one, that so far hasn't worked out. 

I dont think he will make it at Premier League level with us. 

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So best to get what we can for him now? Or hope that he will find form this season 

[badgerx16]

I would keep AA and bring in a striker to replace ShLong.

[qwertyell]

  On 26/06/2022 at 13:28, ally_uk said:

I don't rate him personally I'd try and sell to Middlesbrough... 

 

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Especially if they've got that incoming Djed Spence money burning a hole in their pocket.

Seems pretty telling that no Premier League clubs are in for him. 

[BERMUDASAINT]

  On 26/06/2022 at 10:08, Teddeer said:

Don't think Ralph's tactics suited him last season. I can't recall him missing shedloads of chances because he simply didn't get the service that he needs. I still think he's a good finisher but you have to play the right system to get the best out of him - we didn't so not sure how we expected him to score goals.

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I think it was Broga that said Adam Armstrong  was the best finisher in training. Let's hope he can show that this season after Ralf has drilled in his automism over the summer.

[BARCELONASAINT]

The striking area is the one that is really worrying me the most, we have Che Adams (not prolific by any means) Longy (could not hit a barn door if his life was decided on it) Tella (who is better at assists than scoring) and Adam Armstrong (who if rumours are to be believed is off after failing so far)

I'm not counting Redmond (he's no striker) or any unproven kids from the age groups below. 

We are frighteningly short of any real quality upfront and need a minimum of 2 strikers and preferably 2 that will score goals every now and again!

[hypochondriac]

  On 26/06/2022 at 14:30, BARCELONASAINT said:

The striking area is the one that is really worrying me the most, we have Che Adams (not prolific by any means) Longy (could not hit a barn door if his life was decided on it) Tella (who is better at assists than scoring) and Adam Armstrong (who if rumours are to be believed is off after failing so far)

I'm not counting Redmond (he's no striker) or any unproven kids from the age groups below. 

We are frighteningly short of any real quality upfront and need a minimum of 2 strikers and preferably 2 that will score goals every now and again!

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I don't see how it's a worry at this stage. We are obviously going to bring in a striker and possibly two. 

[Baird of the land]

I'd prefer him to stay. Getting rid of him would leave us very short up front with just Adams and Tella currently.(hope this nonsense about bringing back Long doesn't happen) We'd need to bring in a minimum of 2 more proper strikers.

Only way i could see a loan working is if there's some obligation to buy included.

 

 

[Chez]

after a reasonable start he quickly los his confidence and without that you are never going to score goals in the Prem. Can he get that confidence back and flourish? Adams lost confidence in his first season and given time he got into a relative groove and now has his fans on here. Can we afford to risk that he will come good? I guess it depends what the offer might be for Armstrong from elsewhere and who else we can bring in. I wonder what Ralph thinks of him really. He rightly dropped him, when his confidence went, but in the run in he didn't give him too many chances, which might suggest he has seen enough. His comments about him suggest otherwise, but what he says in press conferences doesn't necessary mean much.

 

 

[Dman]

Get whatever we can for him. Not gonna cut it at this level imo. We’ve no room for passengers. 
 

Let him find his untapped potential elsewhere. 

[Saint Garrett]

It’s cheerio and sorry it hasn’t worked out for me. But he ain’t good enough. Shane Long, at 65, offers more than Armstrong. 

Edited 26 June, 2022 by Saint Garrett

[The Kraken]

At the start of last season I thought he showed glimpses of being decent, he got into good positions and made good positive runs. As the season went on he lost confidence and his play was, frankly, not good at all. I still think there’s a player in there, albeit as third choice. But it seems like he’s totally out of Ralph’s plans. Think the best case is to try and get as much money for him as possible, though it’ll be very difficult to get anywhere close to what we paid for him.

[egg]

  On 26/06/2022 at 15:40, The Kraken said:

At the start of last season I thought he showed glimpses of being decent, he got into good positions and made good positive runs. As the season went on he lost confidence and his play was, frankly, not good at all. I still think there’s a player in there, albeit as third choice. But it seems like he’s totally out of Ralph’s plans. Think the best case is to try and get as much money for him as possible, though it’ll be very difficult to get anywhere close to what we paid for him.

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He showed promise early on. After that we stopped playing to his strengths - he needed balls into space but he wasn't getting that and he became ineffective, his confidence went and that was that. All of that, and reading that he's unsettled and that Ralph doesn't get on with him suggests that his time here is up. Whether he'd have cut it at this level I'm not convinced, but we've hardly helped the lad. 

[The Left Back]

Unless there's been an unrecoverable breakdown in relationship behind the scenes I'd be for keeping Armstrong.  I still think there's enough in what I saw in the early games to suggest he could make it in the PL.  We need 4 up front (I'm not counting Tella or Long) then we should by a good un' to start games and either promote Ballard or get a young one to try and breakthrough.  With two new ones, Adams and Armstrong we have a good blend for the season.

[SNSUN]

  On 26/06/2022 at 13:38, badgerx16 said:

I would keep AA and bring in a striker to replace ShLong.

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 ...is the correct answer but Ralph has already shown last season he preferred Long over Adam.

 

Personally I'd have all the strikers and 10s out bar Adams and SArmstrong and start again but we can't afford to be that drastic. I'd keep AA and still add two newbies, and keep Moi and Tella and add 2 10s. The rest can jog on.

[screechio]

I seem to remember Dan Sheldon suggesting that Armstrong wasn't being picked due to his defensive abilities at set pieces rather than his attacking qualities. That's bound to knacker a forwards confidence.

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 26/06/2022 at 19:32, screechio said:

I seem to remember Dan Sheldon suggesting that Armstrong wasn't being picked due to his defensive abilities at set pieces rather than his attacking qualities. That's bound to knacker a forwards confidence.

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That’s a concern for me. We need someone to score goals, not defend against them. If Ralph wanted a defender then why didn’t he buy one instead of a goalscorer?

[Badger]

  On 26/06/2022 at 09:39, AlexLaw76 said:

Longy for another 12 months?  Then the prolific Tella?

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Was trying to forget about him over the summer, but it is a reminder as to how poor the squad depth is. 

Strikes me as another player whose best position might be at Ross County, or the Second Division in Turkey.

[egg]

  On 26/06/2022 at 20:02, Badger said:

Was trying to forget about him over the summer, but it is a reminder as to how poor the squad depth is. 

Strikes me as another player whose best position might be at Ross County, or the Second Division in Turkey.

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I thought it was just me who doesn't understand the fuss about this lad. Not skillful enough to be a winger, not good enough with the ball to be a PL 10, and doesn't have the runs or finishing of a PL striker. 

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 26/06/2022 at 20:12, egg said:

I thought it was just me who doesn't understand the fuss about this lad. Not skillful enough to be a winger, not good enough with the ball to be a PL 10, and doesn't have the runs or finishing of a PL striker. 

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Me too. Nothing to see here, move along please.

[Mr X]

  On 26/06/2022 at 22:12, Whitey Grandad said:

Me too. Nothing to see here, move along please.

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How much do you realistically think we would get for him? would someone take a punt on him for 8 million? (which is still a 7 million loss)

[Charlie Wayman]

  On 26/06/2022 at 09:43, sadoldgit said:

Surely he is not going to adjust to playing in the EPL unless he plays in the EPL (with either us or another EPL team). Can’t see the point of him going to the Championship on loan. So he scores a few goals and gets his confidence back but you would assume he had plenty of confidence when signing from Blackburn. One of his problems seemed to be taking half a second longer in getting his shots away in the Prem, in other words, not shooting as instinctively as he did for Blackburn. Hopefully the new coaching team can sort this out and we will get the goal scorer we thought we had signed. Ralph has intimated that he is a long term project. 

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This is an euphemism for "he's bloody useless". Ralph fully understands how to pass the buck to a future manager knowing full well he won't be around here long enough to pick up the pieces or the blame. Another Ralphie signing who has turned out to be a Flopp, a familiar pattern developing here. 

Edited 27 June, 2022 by Charlie Wayman

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 27/06/2022 at 16:56, Mr X said:

How much do you realistically think we would get for him? would someone take a punt on him for 8 million? (which is still a 7 million loss)

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I was thinking of Tella. Apologies for not making that clear.

[Convict Colony]

What did we pay for him 12 mil ? Across a 5 yr deal I'd guess.

He's been here 1 year so the book value would be 9.6m if we sold him now.

[Mr X]

  On 27/06/2022 at 19:16, Convict Colony said:

What did we pay for him 12 mil ? Across a 5 yr deal I'd guess.

He's been here 1 year so the book value would be 9.6m if we sold him now.

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15 million we paid, so 12 million book value currently, actual value considerably less 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Our best bet is that he does well on loan in the championship and restores his value so we can sell him

Edited 27 June, 2022 by Ex Lion Tamer

[Chez]

  On 27/06/2022 at 18:35, Whitey Grandad said:

I was thinking of Tella. Apologies for not making that clear.

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he was woeful in some of the run in games. Couldn't control the football. Terrible. I think everyone was expecting big things, but he was a total bust IMO. I hope he comes good this season. Wouldn't bet my house on it.

[revolution saint]

I guess if Watford are interested then maybe we could talk about Dennis or Sarr at the same time. Seem to recall there was some talk of us being linked with Dennis at the end of the season. Sarr will probably go to a bigger club than us but people have been saying he’ll be off to a top six side for a couple of years and hasn’t happened yet so you never know. 
As for Armstrong, I’m undecided. He’s got some talent and doesn’t really feel like he’s had a fair crack of the whip but something ain’t right and we can’t really have that kind of investment sitting on the bench and barely getting any minutes on the pitch.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

  On 27/06/2022 at 20:59, Chez said:

he was woeful in some of the run in games. Couldn't control the football. Terrible. I think everyone was expecting big things, but he was a total bust IMO. I hope he comes good this season. Wouldn't bet my house on it.

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He needs a loan spell

[Chez]

  On 27/06/2022 at 21:45, revolution saint said:

As for Armstrong, I’m undecided. He’s got some talent and doesn’t really feel like he’s had a fair crack of the whip 

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he started 12 of the first 14 games. Scored twice, three assists. He was pretty poor in the last four games, so was rightly dropped to the bench, where upon he featured in five of next 7 (starting only once), but was pretty shite in all of those games too (0 goals or assists). He had a pretty decent crack of the whip. 

From Feb through April he hardly figured, with only 3 sub appearances. Perhaps he ought to have been given a few more chances. He started 2 of the last 3...but not dojng a great deal to be honest.

He had the shirt, but to be honest he failed and no one was to blame but himself. You could argue he should have got a few more appearances in the Spring, but his confidence seemed gone - so unless he shined in training, why would he get selected?

Long should not have started ahead of him towards the end of the season IMO, but again, unless Armstrong showed he was back on it in training, why give him the nod?

[Chez]

  On 27/06/2022 at 22:06, Ex Lion Tamer said:

He needs a loan spell

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yep. Not sure thats gonna happen.

[revolution saint]

  On 27/06/2022 at 22:33, Chez said:

he started 12 of the first 14 games. Scored twice, three assists. He was pretty poor in the last four games, so was rightly dropped to the bench, where upon he featured in five of next 7 (starting only once), but was pretty shite in all of those games too (0 goals or assists). He had a pretty decent crack of the whip. 

From Feb through April he hardly figured, with only 3 sub appearances. Perhaps he ought to have been given a few more chances. He started 2 of the last 3...but not dojng a great deal to be honest.

He had the shirt, but to be honest he failed and no one was to blame but himself. You could argue he should have got a few more appearances in the Spring, but his confidence seemed gone - so unless he shined in training, why would he get selected?

Long should not have started ahead of him towards the end of the season IMO, but again, unless Armstrong showed he was back on it in training, why give him the nod?

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It’s an opinion, you can go all forensic mlg if you want though. I thought he showed some glimpses of talent that might be worth another look but I’m not saying he’s the second coming.

[Give it to Ron]

  On 27/06/2022 at 22:51, revolution saint said:

It’s an opinion, you can go all forensic mlg if you want though. I thought he showed some glimpses of talent that might be worth another look but I’m not saying he’s the second coming.

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He was the only player who showed something against Chelsea in that shit show and got hauled off .

Not great for his confidence then Long starts above him no wonder he would want to go back up North if true.

[Saint Fan CaM]

I’ve watched him carefully and in summary, while he has the ability to score,, his off the ball positional sense is severely lacking and he doesn’t create his own chances (like Broja did). To be fair that may be Ralph’s system, but that doesn’t remove the fact that he’s not right for the team. Sell and buy a fresh player.

[wild-saint]

  On 28/06/2022 at 06:40, Saint Fan CaM said:

I’ve watched him carefully and in summary, while he has the ability to score,, his off the ball positional sense is severely lacking and he doesn’t create his own chances (like Broja did). To be fair that may be Ralph’s system, but that doesn’t remove the fact that he’s not right for the team. Sell and buy a fresh player.

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agree with much if this but would add his touch is fairly average as well. In comparison to Ings it felt like he was wearing steell toe capped shoes.

[Neef]

Think there's been a bit of revisionism around him. 

He was clearly brought in as the main striker to replace Ings, then got that goal on his debt, which seemed promising. 

He started around 12 games at the start of the season and only got 1 goal after that vs Villa (great finish). There were some big chances he missed in that run too - United at home springs to mind, and then Broja rightfully came into the team. 

It's difficult for AA because outside of poaching he doesn't seem to bring much to the team. Compare that with Adams, whose finishing is very frustrating, but at the same has other attributes which add to our overall game. There are plenty of games where Adams has not scored, but still played very well. With Armstrong, if he's not scoring, he's not effective, and I'm not sure that's enough in the PL these days (unless you're Ronaldo).

[Sarnia Cherie]

He hasn't had the best of starts for us so a loan to a lower side may be a good move all round but only if there are plans for at least 1 more striker. My blood pressure won't be able to cope with Shane Long being a regular starter. 

[Chez]

  On 27/06/2022 at 22:51, revolution saint said:

It’s an opinion, you can go all forensic mlg if you want though. I thought he showed some glimpses of talent that might be worth another look but I’m not saying he’s the second coming.

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That's quite a burn.

My point being, I see the phrase `not given a fair crack of the whip' and I simply don't agree with it. He was given a long run in the side, but he and he alone failed to take that chance. His confidence fade away and from then on Broja was by far the better option.  Maybe he ought to have been picked ahead of Long right towards the end of the season.

I agree with you though that he might be worth another look. I don't think Che was any better in his first season. He also is not the second coming, but Saints fans seem reasonably happy with him, so a reasonable bar.

[Chez]

  On 28/06/2022 at 06:58, wild-saint said:

agree with much if this but would add his touch is fairly average as well. In comparison to Ings it felt like he was wearing steell toe capped shoes.

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like Djemeno, he kept getting the ball stuck under his feet a lot, which slowed all attacks down to a standstill. A sure sign of a lack of confidence. If he gets his confidence back though, maybe he can become the Ings Mark II we all want.