Armel Bella-Kotchap

[Gloucester Saint]

13 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Maybe ABK needs to take a shit on the pitch to get everyone back onside. 

Bella Kochcrap

[Gloucester Saint]

15 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Is this another case of a player becoming a world beater, once he's out of the team?

He started well for us in the PL, but he switched off so much and was Hoedt-esque in some of the games he played for us. It's not like we're sat on the greatest defender in the world and not playing him. There's a reason he has absolutley zero market.

Often happens. The CBs we are utilising aren’t doing well but the intense pressure from being the main resource of possession in the face of strong, quick PL presses isn’t helping them. Nor did the manager pushing them under bus today Nathan Jones style. 

Whether we use ABK or not, the most important change is their core job becomes 1) stopping the opposition getting shots and crosses at Ramsdale and 2) either finding Flynn/Lesley/Fernandes or if the space is very squeezed, and the wing backs too narrow, seeing if BBD or Cornet are on for an out ball to get a counter attack going and create breathing space. If sides then drop off as a result, then they can drive forward themselves a bit more like Stephens did sometimes for Ralph.

Edited August 31 by Gloucester Saint

[CanadaSaint]

IIRC he was fine until the start of the relegation season (more than fine if you check the 2022 posts), but that season was a total shitshow. Three managers, two of them dire, players checking out all around, fractured dressing room, relegation inevitable long before the season ended, SMS was a depressing place for fans and players alike. He was far from the only one who didn't want to be here for 2023-24 in the Championship.

But he's still here, for whatever reason, and we have huge problems at the back. The questions for me are: What changed that early guy? Can we fix it? Why are we apparently not even trying when, warts and all, he's far better than some automatic starters who are costing us games?

I have no doubt that Martin sees himself as a top-notch "man manager". This is a great opportunity to show it - the potential upside is huge.

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, CanadaSaint said:

IIRC he was fine until the start of the relegation season (more than fine if you check the 2022 posts), but that season was a total shitshow. Three managers, two of them dire, players checking out all around, fractured dressing room, relegation inevitable long before the season ended, SMS was a depressing place for fans and players alike. He was far from the only one who didn't want to be here for 2023-24 in the Championship.

But he's still here, for whatever reason, and we have huge problems at the back. The questions for me are: What changed that early guy? Can we fix it? Why are we apparently not even trying when, warts and all, he's far better than some automatic starters who are costing us games?

I have no doubt that Martin sees himself as a top-notch "man manager". This is a great opportunity to show it - the potential upside is huge.

He was signed at the start of the relegation season.

[ErwinK1961]

7 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

He was signed at the start of the relegation season.

He was fine until we signed him!

[CanadaSaint]

8 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

He was signed at the start of the relegation season.

Thank you - brain fart. 😀

1 minute ago, ErwinK1961 said:

He was fine until we signed him!

The first 4+ pages of this thread say he was real quality until things started going pear-shaped on the manager front, and then everything went to hell - not just ABK. The point is that getting ABK #1 back would be very helpful right now.

[Saint_clark]

I don't remember ABK ever really having standout bad games. He was just playing in a properly shit, disorganised team.

Crazy that he's being frozen out when we're struggling so much at the back. Even just having him on the bench to push the starting players would be beneficial as opposed to having *checks the Brentford game* no centreback subs. I don't think THB, Bednarek and especially Stephens feel at all threatened by Edwards and Wood. 

Edited September 1 by Saint_clark

[Sheaf Saint]

12 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

I don't remember ABK ever really having standout bad games. He was just playing in a properly shit, disorganised team.

Crazy that he's being frozen out when we're struggling so much at the back. Even just having him on the bench to push the starting players would be beneficial as opposed to having *checks the Brentford game* no centreback subs. I don't think THB, Bednarek and especially Stephens feel at all threatened by Edwards and Wood. 

Indeed. Let's remember that, when we signed him in the summer of 2022, we subsequently sent both Stephens and Bednarek out on loan, having deemed them 'surplus to requirements'. 

How on Earth have we now got to the stage where both those players are not only still here but somehow keeping him out of the team?

[Dellyears]

2 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Indeed. Let's remember that, when we signed him in the summer of 2022, we subsequently sent both Stephens and Bednarek out on loan, having deemed them 'surplus to requirements'. 

How on Earth have we now got to the stage where both those players are not only still here but somehow keeping him out of the team?

We don't know what goes on in the training ground, we don't know what personal relations are like, but that matters in a team. We do know that he has often been subbed for injury and has seldom lasted 90 mins and had weeks and months on the bench--of the physio.

[Baird of the land]

32 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Indeed. Let's remember that, when we signed him in the summer of 2022, we subsequently sent both Stephens and Bednarek out on loan, having deemed them 'surplus to requirements'. 

How on Earth have we now got to the stage where both those players are not only still here but somehow keeping him out of the team?

Yes Stephens was sent out on loan to newly promoted bournemouth and helped keep them up. Meanwhile ABK was helping us to a humiliating relegation.

[stknowle]

36 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Indeed. Let's remember that, when we signed him in the summer of 2022, we subsequently sent both Stephens and Bednarek out on loan, having deemed them 'surplus to requirements'. 

How on Earth have we now got to the stage where both those players are not only still here but somehow keeping him out of the team?

This. It’s already well established that Stephens and Bedders are at best very average at this level and that’s exactly how its playing out so far. We need more quality there and ABK has the potential to offer that.

[Doctoroncall]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

I don't remember ABK ever really having standout bad games. He was just playing in a properly shit, disorganised team.

Crazy that he's being frozen out when we're struggling so much at the back. Even just having him on the bench to push the starting players would be beneficial as opposed to having *checks the Brentford game* no centreback subs. I don't think THB, Bednarek and especially Stephens feel at all threatened by Edwards and Wood. 

I remember ABK having a couple of stinkers, but that was when nobody was willing to step up. Certainly showed his class early on. 

[Orkney Saint]

If the Saints want rid of ABK, or any other non-playing centre back for that matter, I don’t think they’re doing themselves any favours by playing Stephens every game (as captain too!). What message does that send to any potential buyers?
“They’re playing Stephens ahead of [insert player name here], how bad must [insert player name here] be?! OK, we’ll give you f’all and you’d better thank us for that too!”

In all seriousness, if Stephens can be captain and picked for every game (so far), then ABK should have a route back into the team/squad ASAP. However, if ABK is as much of a problem as some seem to think he is, then he should’ve been released on a free by now. Why would you want a player hanging about if they were that much of a problem?
I think there must be some serious mismanagement going on whichever way you look at it.

[Katalinic]

Been told not even bother coming in to train, sat at home most days. Utter joke. Martin totally blinkered.

[Suhari]

Just now, Katalinic said:

Been told not even bother coming in to train, sat at home most days. Utter joke. Martin totally blinkered.

No fucking way!?

[Katalinic]

Just now, Suhari said:

No fucking way!?

7th choice. Our best CB. All is not well.

[disconnect]

45 minutes ago, Katalinic said:

Been told not even bother coming in to train, sat at home most days. Utter joke. Martin totally blinkered.

This is crazy. ABK probably said something like “I’m not even making the bench and you’re starting Stephens”… Hopefully someone new will reintegrate him, too good to not be even in the squad

[Tommy Mulgrew]

4 hours ago, Katalinic said:

Been told not even bother coming in to train, sat at home most days. Utter joke. Martin totally blinkered.

Are you sure that is true?  How do you know?  What is your HP?  (Note that I did not mention ketchup!)  What has ABK done to deserve it?  

If true and ABK has done nothing to warrant such treatment, that in itself is enough for RM to get sacked, regardless of the dross he gets the squad to serve up each game this season.

[Wade Garrett]

6 hours ago, Katalinic said:

Been told not even bother coming in to train, sat at home most days. Utter joke. Martin totally blinkered.

He would have to bench Stephens…..

[ErwinK1961]

He’s been a bellend the last two summers and was one of the players with a shite attitude the year we went down. Hasn’t been interested in getting involved until his move never materialised and he realised he’s stuck in limbo.

Suspect he will get his chance again when Martin gets sacked.

[Charlie Wayman]

9 hours ago, Katalinic said:

Been told not even bother coming in to train, sat at home most days. Utter joke. Martin totally blinkered.

Nice work if you can get it.

[Greedyfly]

1 hour ago, ErwinK1961 said:

He’s been a bellend the last two summers and was one of the players with a shite attitude the year we went down. Hasn’t been interested in getting involved until his move never materialised and he realised he’s stuck in limbo.

Suspect he will get his chance again when Martin gets sacked.

There is absolutely this about him.  I do think he's the best defender here, but he's clearly got a bit of an attitude about him, and we also seem to have forgotten he's made of glass, which is why I can actually get behind Martin not including him specifically.  Unfortunately I can't defend Martin over much else which is why I can't fathom him not including ABK after all has been said and done.  Catch 22.

Edited October 1 by Greedyfly

[Viking Saint]

Interesting read. Seems there may be light at the end of the tunnel....

https://sportwitness.co.uk/he-didnt-like-it-southampton-player-explains-why-russell-martin-left-him-out-receives-assurance-from-saints/

[benjii]

1 hour ago, Viking Saint said:

Interesting read. Seems there may be light at the end of the tunnel....

https://sportwitness.co.uk/he-didnt-like-it-southampton-player-explains-why-russell-martin-left-him-out-receives-assurance-from-saints/

Bizarre from Martin, if true.

[UpweySaint]

10 minutes ago, benjii said:

Bizarre from Martin, if true.

It’s not a stick I would beat Martin with. ABK thought he was bigger than the club when we went down despite being part of the team that got relegated. He still thinks it now. Hardly screams of team mate you would want alongside you in adversity.

[Saint_clark]

32 minutes ago, benjii said:

Bizarre from Martin, if true.

Tracks with everything we know about him. He has his favourites and would rather stick with them than pick the better option.

20 minutes ago, UpweySaint said:

It’s not a stick I would beat Martin with. ABK thought he was bigger than the club when we went down despite being part of the team that got relegated. He still thinks it now. Hardly screams of team mate you would want alongside you in adversity.

ABK wanting to leave is no different to JWP, Lavia, Livramento actually leaving. We'd have all three of them back if we could so why not ABK? 

[SaintNewForest]

5 hours ago, benjii said:

Bizarre from Martin, if true.

Nah, ABK can't just expect to walk straight back into a promoted side after wanting out the year before.

The fact he hasn't knuckled down and force his way back in is down to him.

[AlexLaw76]

12 minutes ago, SaintNewForest said:

Nah, ABK can't just expect to walk straight back into a promoted side after wanting out the year before.

The fact he hasn't knuckled down and force his way back in is down to him.

Not sure he expected to walk straight back I the side.

 

[SaintNewForest]

5 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Not sure he expected to walk straight back I the side.

 

I quote ABK "he wanted to stick with the promotion guys" ... so rather than knuckle down, train hard and force his way back in to the side, he spouts off to the press instead. 

Edited 20 hours ago by SaintNewForest

[coalman]

When ABK joined he was an absolute beast at times. I'd love that player in the starting line up. He was also prone to injury. Not sure if that has changed.

Don't blame him for wanting out after we got relegated. That season was a shit show.

Can also see how easy it would be to lose motivation if your manager only picks his besties. Knowing you're sixth choice behind Stephens is going to be a dark place.

Also have no idea how he's handled himself during that situation.

Doubt he's going to walk back into the side but at least with IJ there's a new beginning.

[Nolan]

If ABK can do a job as a strong defender that makes us hard to beat, I'm all for it.

The blokes still only 23 so has a LOT of potential. 

[Sheaf Saint]

32 minutes ago, SaintNewForest said:

I quote ABK "he wanted to stick with the promotion guys" ... so rather than knuckle down, train hard and force his way back in to the side, he spouts off to the press instead. 

That's a weird take. This quote is obviously very recent, because he talks about assurances given regarding a fresh chance under the new coach. How is that 'spouting off to the press instead of training hard to force his way back in?'

If ABK can successfully be reintegrated into the side and start showing the kind of dominant performances that we saw from him prior to his shoulder injury, then it will serve to prove further what a terrible manager RM really was. 

 

[trousers]

6 hours ago, benjii said:

Bizarre from Martin, if true.

Agree, but doesn't surprise me...

 

[Turkish]

On 01/09/2024 at 21:07, Orkney Saint said:

If the Saints want rid of ABK, or any other non-playing centre back for that matter, I don’t think they’re doing themselves any favours by playing Stephens every game (as captain too!). What message does that send to any potential buyers?
“They’re playing Stephens ahead of [insert player name here], how bad must [insert player name here] be?! OK, we’ll give you f’all and you’d better thank us for that too!”

In all seriousness, if Stephens can be captain and picked for every game (so far), then ABK should have a route back into the team/squad ASAP. However, if ABK is as much of a problem as some seem to think he is, then he should’ve been released on a free by now. Why would you want a player hanging about if they were that much of a problem?
I think there must be some serious mismanagement going on whichever way you look at it.

Oh come on, clubs have highly paid, qualified scouts scrutinising every detail of a players performance, ability, attitude everything. They’re not going to be put off because one the worst premier league manager ever prefers Jack frigging Stephens. They’ll more likely see it as one of the reasons why he’s one of the worst premier league managers ever.

It’s more likely to do with the fact hes on a good premier league contract, we probably want a lot for him and he’s barely played in two years nothing for us this season, 7 appearances last season and a load of injuries second half of his first sssaon with us. A combination of those things along with the fact he’s not really proven himself at premier league level mean the only clubs who would want him can probably get better, More proven value elsewhere right now 

[Fabrice29]

No way people are falling for the PR piece just before January and just after the manager has left are they 😂

[trousers]

4 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

No way people are falling for the PR piece just before January and just after the manager has left are they 😂

Yeah, imagine people falling for "PR pieces" on here...

[Wade Garrett]

I’ve read on here that he refused to play for the reserves.  

[austsaint]

27 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

That's a weird take. This quote is obviously very recent, because he talks about assurances given regarding a fresh chance under the new coach. How is that 'spouting off to the press instead of training hard to force his way back in?'

If ABK can successfully be reintegrated into the side and start showing the kind of dominant performances that we saw from him prior to his shoulder injury, then it will serve to prove further what a terrible manager RM really was. 

 

Yep.  If that recent quote is accurate, it reinforces the suspicion that Martin was too quick to judge and overlook players.   ABK, Les Ugo, Sulemana, Tall Paul, Taylor, even Cornet strike me as players Martin couldn’t get a tune out of, or wasn’t interested in trying to.   I’m expecting several of them to get an opportunity and show improvement now, should they survive the transfer window.   One of Martin’s legacies will be the poor judgement he showed in believing players like Smallbone, Stephens, Bazunu and Manning were first choice players.

[tdmickey3]

5 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

No way people are falling for the PR piece just before January and just after the manager has left are they 😂

Says the numpty who "fell" for Russel Martins guff, with lines like "we are better with him on the pitch" (Stephens) and "I am happiest when he's on the field (Smallbone)

Go dry your eyes sweetheart, everyone is seeing through the shambles Martin created

[Turkish]

17 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

No way people are falling for the PR piece just before January and just after the manager has left are they 😂

i wonder if the club has ever considered using their own employees to be resident on fans forums relentlessly promoting and defending all the goings on? That would be a very obvious and free way to flood fans with positive PR, wouldn't it?

[West end Saints]

11 minutes ago, austsaint said:

Yep.  If that recent quote is accurate, it reinforces the suspicion that Martin was too quick to judge and overlook players.   ABK, Les Ugo, Sulemana, Tall Paul, Taylor, even Cornet strike me as players Martin couldn’t get a tune out of, or wasn’t interested in trying to.   I’m expecting several of them to get an opportunity and show improvement now, should they survive the transfer window.   One of Martin’s legacies will be the poor judgement he showed in believing players like Smallbone, Stephens, Bazunu and Manning were first choice players.

Harsh on Smallbone.

He was the best player over the three play off games and key to us being promoted. How can playing him be poor judgement?

Not sure how he would be doing this season if he had been fit (prob no worse than Downes)

 

Edited 19 hours ago by West end Saints

[Lord Duckhunter]

I refuse to believe Lego head is that incompetent & idiotic that he over looks a German international on the basis that Stephens & Bednarek played for us in the championship, especially when his job was on the line. Surely he’d have given him a cup game or place on the bench. The bloke must have really stunk the place out during the week to receive the treatment he did, he must have been pretty toxic. I guess we’ll find out the truth in the next few weeks, if he plays to his potential and settles into the side, then it’ll be another stick to beat the Lego headed twat with. I suspect he won’t, and he’ll ship out at the end of the season with,  at best, a handful of games under his belt 

Edited 19 hours ago by Lord Duckhunter

[Gloucester Saint]

10 minutes ago, West end Saints said:

Harsh on Smallbone.

He was the best player over the three play off games and key to us being promoted. How can playing him be poor judgement?

Not sure how he would be doing this season if he had been fit (prob no worse than Downes)

 

Agree to an extent but Will should also have been told by the club to bulk up over the summer as Drew Surman had to do when he joined Wolves to be able to play in the PL otherwise he’d be loaned out again because the CM areas are so much bigger and more athletic. Has the first touch and technical ability for the top flight but you can’t be 10 stone dripping wet and play in central midfield in the current day PL.

Edited 18 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[HKsaint]

One of the manager job now is to motivate the players who have the premier league quality and not stick with those loyal championship players. 

[Suhari]

Hoping he is given a clean slate, and a chance to get back into the side. Assuming he wants it of course.

[beatlesaint]

What happens with ABK in the next month or so is one of the more interesting issues with the squad. I'm also interested to see what the new manager makes of Stephens, Fraser, Smallbone (when fit), Kamaldeen, Armstong and Manning who, in fairness, hasnt been bad of late.

Edited 18 hours ago by beatlesaint

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, tdmickey3 said:

Says the numpty who "fell" for Russel Martins guff, with lines like "we are better with him on the pitch" (Stephens) and "I am happiest when he's on the field (Smallbone)

Go dry your eyes sweetheart, everyone is seeing through the shambles Martin created

Hi mate. I liked the manager who helped get us promoted and I’m a bit suspicious of the defender who not only left the moment he could (fair enough to be fair) but also hasn’t been seen since he’s come back (including any attempts to get match fit) but has tried to leave again and just did a nice fluffy interview with the German press just before the transfer window opens and just after the manager has left.

Sorry.

Edit: I forgot that he was seen previously actually. It was also just before the last window ended. Bit weird. 

Edited 18 hours ago by Fabrice29

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

i wonder if the club has ever considered using their own employees to be resident on fans forums relentlessly promoting and defending all the goings on? That would be a very obvious and free way to flood fans with positive PR, wouldn't it?

With masterminds like you on here? Feels stupid if so. Anyway, I’m glad you’ve settled on who you think I am now. 3rd time lucky maybe.

[saintant]

Ivan Juric strikes me as very much a man who will make his own judgements and not be swayed by outside influences on things which happened when he wasn't here. So my expectation is that he'll recognise that ABK has played for Germany and believe there must be something there. He'll probably sit him down for a chat then, if he likes what he hears, he'll get ABK training with the squad and judge him on what he sees with his own eyes and knowledge of the game. I suspect the opportunity will be presented to ABK and whether he decides to knuckle down and work his nuts off to get into the team will be entirely down to how he conducts himself - he starts with a clean sheet.

[Hodgey]

ABK is a player who gets better the more he doesn’t play. Some people have short memories - he was pretty woeful in our last relegation scrap and did nothing after deciding he was too good for championship.

Even his quotes there suggest he wants to play to get back into the international team, and will clearly be off as soon as we go down. 
I actually think Martin got this one right, but let’s see what Juric thinks - he strikes me as the sort of manager who won’t accept pay check players not giving their all so we’ll soon find out.