Armel Bella-Kotchap

[Fabrice29]

9 minutes ago, Hodgey said:

ABK is a player who gets better the more he doesn’t play. Some people have short memories - he was pretty woeful in our last relegation scrap and did nothing after deciding he was too good for championship.

Even his quotes there suggest he wants to play to get back into the international team, and will clearly be off as soon as we go down. 
I actually think Martin got this one right, but let’s see what Juric thinks - he strikes me as the sort of manager who won’t accept pay check players not giving their all so we’ll soon find out.

I'm not sure thats true. Rest of what you've said is spot on but ABK was good the season we went down, he just had some injury issues and was in a badly managed team whilst being young and playing in the PL for the first time. If he's at his best, fully fit and fully committed in terms of actually wanting to play (even if it is just to impress someone enough so he can leave) then great but they are all big ifs right now.

[notnowcato]

The chapter on ABK needs to close, hopefully January will see him sign for someone. 

[redandwhitey]

Perhaps a loan away would work best, game time for the shop window ??

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, redandwhitey said:

Perhaps a loan away would work best, game time for the shop window ??

we tried that and he ended up in PSVs reserves

[saintant]

10 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

The chapter on ABK needs to close, hopefully January will see him sign for someone. 

It may well close in the way you suggest but I think Ivan Juric is shrewd enough to want to make his own judgement before approving transfer of ABK in Jan - we'll see.

[notnowcato]

5 minutes ago, saintant said:

It may well close in the way you suggest but I think Ivan Juric is shrewd enough to want to make his own judgement before approving transfer of ABK in Jan - we'll see.

We will see.  

I think there's a lot gone on behind the scenes, the telling indicator for me was his refusal to play for the 21s.  

[Dman]

I'm torn on ABK, I'd say its pretty clear there is an issue with his commitment / attitude, not for leaving, but for the amount of games he tossed off that season we went down.. and his lack of desire to earn his spot this season. 

However, Martin cut of his nose to spite his face by not integrating him sooner this season. We've been so, so poor defensively and he's probably our only genuine PL player at the back. TBH, if I was being seen at 6 choice behind some of the shit weve seen this season, I'd probably jack it in as well. 

If he's willing to get his head down, work hard and accept hes got to earn his spot then I'm all for integrating him back into the squad. 

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

We will see.  

I think there's a lot gone on behind the scenes, the telling indicator for me was his refusal to play for the 21s.  

Footballers are a pretty egotistical lot and often not blessed with the ability to make rational decisions. I'm hoping IJ will be able to talk him round and get him playing but clearly it will not be easy. I guess we need every man jack giving 100% and that may or may not include ABK but certainly worth trying.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

11 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

We will see.  

I think there's a lot gone on behind the scenes, the telling indicator for me was his refusal to play for the 21s.  

How do we know that's true? I've not heard anything about that other than what has been said on here? There are at least five players who did not feature regularly in the Martin tombola for a start. Are all five troublemakers?

[Convict Colony]

32 minutes ago, Turkish said:

we tried that and he ended up in PSVs reserves

Am not sure playing in the champions league v arsenal for them before sustaining a long term injury for the rest of the season is the reserves bro.

Edited yesterday at 11:19 by Convict Colony

[Dman]

2 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

How do we know that's true? I've not heard anything about that other than what has been said on here? There are at least five players who did not feature regularly in the Martin tombola for a start. Are all five troublemakers?

I mean he considered Alcaraz not good enough for us to build a side around and sent him on loan to Juve, whilst we were in the championship ffs. 

Martin like lap dogs who'll sit and nod to his shit philosphy.

[Dman]

Oh, Martin also fell out with Whittaker whilst at Swansea. Whittaker went on to be one of the best strikers in the leauge last season. 

[Patches O Houlihan]

He is a physical specimen, but his mentality would seem to be questionable. Don't forget in our relegation season there were many on here calling out his injuries as him not fancying playing for us in tough PL games.

We're going to need a backs against the wall effort if we are going to pull the ridiculously unlikely rabbit out of the hat. When Juric takes training he would need to be turning over not just a new leaf, but a massive palm frond in order to displace Wood who has demonstrated more willingness, team spirit and skill on the pitch in the last month than he has in 18.

Feels a bit like the Lemina situation. Are we going to find that in 5 years time ABK finally pulls his head out of his arse and becomes Captain material?!

[notnowcato]

35 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

How do we know that's true? I've not heard anything about that other than what has been said on here? There are at least five players who did not feature regularly in the Martin tombola for a start. Are all five troublemakers?

Smoke, fire... no runouts for the 21s... would start to lean heavily toward it being likely.

I'm not sure what 5 you're referring to or what relevance it has.

[sadoldgit]

42 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

How do we know that's true? I've not heard anything about that other than what has been said on here? There are at least five players who did not feature regularly in the Martin tombola for a start. Are all five troublemakers?

Martin said it was ABKs choice not to play in the u21 team and that he respected that. Not heard ABK refute that claim. Martin did give him a game in the cup so why do that if you are supposed to be blanking him?

[Sheaf Saint]

41 minutes ago, Dman said:

I'm torn on ABK, I'd say its pretty clear there is an issue with his commitment / attitude, not for leaving, but for the amount of games he tossed off that season we went down.. and his lack of desire to earn his spot this season. 

However, Martin cut of his nose to spite his face by not integrating him sooner this season. We've been so, so poor defensively and he's probably our only genuine PL player at the back. TBH, if I was being seen at 6 choice behind some of the shit weve seen this season, I'd probably jack it in as well. 

If he's willing to get his head down, work hard and accept hes got to earn his spot then I'm all for integrating him back into the squad. 

What do you mean by "the amount of games he tossed off that season"? He suffered 3 injuries during games and each time was side-lined for numerous games afterwards. This narrative that arose on here about him just not fancying it and finding a way to get himself subbed off is utter bullshit. 

He may well have an attitude problem, but we know already that RM had his favourites and would willingly drop people on principle rather than on form, so his claim that Russ just preferred the promotion lads seems entirely plausible.

We'll see what happens in the coming weeks I guess, but I'm not ready to write him off completely yet when there were clearly other factors at play.

[austsaint]

3 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Martin said it was ABKs choice not to play in the u21 team and that he respected that. Not heard ABK refute that claim. Martin did give him a game in the cup so why do that if you are supposed to be blanking him?

He (Martin) did blank him.  The minutes v Cardiff (where Bella-Kotchap did well) were quoted by Martin as evidence for prospective buyers that ABK was healthy (after the failed medical) and in the shop window - the game was played in late August - and he wasn’t selected by Martin again.   That’s about as “blanked” as you can get!

[Patches O Houlihan]

Message from the board: Please play ABK as a sub in the cup this week, as we'll get better advertising figures than if we put him on Facebook Marketplace. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

22 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Smoke, fire... no runouts for the 21s... would start to lean heavily toward it being likely.

I'm not sure what 5 you're referring to or what relevance it has.

Charlie Taylor, Cornet, Les, Onuachu to a lesser degree. I know you'll say that the lads on loan have played and not performed, but Martin was pretty quick to bin them off. With the re-introduction of Big Les yesterday, perhaps there is no smoke without fire? I don't think there is any denying that Martin had his favourites. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

28 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Martin said it was ABKs choice not to play in the u21 team and that he respected that. Not heard ABK refute that claim. Martin did give him a game in the cup so why do that if you are supposed to be blanking him?

Five minutes at the end, that was really big of Martin. If he wanted to put out a statement that he didn't have a problem with him, why not [play him for the full 90 in the cup games?

[coalman]

9 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Charlie Taylor, Cornet, Les, Onuachu to a lesser degree. I know you'll say that the lads on loan have played and not performed, but Martin was pretty quick to bin them off. With the re-introduction of Big Les yesterday, perhaps there is no smoke without fire? I don't think there is any denying that Martin had his favourites. 

Witness the reaction when the keeper kicked it long. Either you bought into the "philosophy" or you didn't play. Which, from a manager perspective is fair enough I suppose - you want players following your tactics (to an extent) though I'd argue you also want them empowered to take responsibility themselves rather than waiting for you to micromanage them from the touchline. Just another sign that Martin was prepared to sacrifice everything in pursuit of the purity of his system.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Refusing to play for the U21’s was a missed opportunity to finally get some decent coaching this season. 

[Wade Garrett]

1 hour ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

He is a physical specimen, but his mentality would seem to be questionable. Don't forget in our relegation season there were many on here calling out his injuries as him not fancying playing for us in tough PL games.

We're going to need a backs against the wall effort if we are going to pull the ridiculously unlikely rabbit out of the hat. When Juric takes training he would need to be turning over not just a new leaf, but a massive palm frond in order to displace Wood who has demonstrated more willingness, team spirit and skill on the pitch in the last month than he has in 18.

Feels a bit like the Lemina situation. Are we going to find that in 5 years time ABK finally pulls his head out of his arse and becomes Captain material?!

Me included.  Good player but bollocks the size of garden peas.

 

[Sheaf Saint]

1 hour ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

Don't forget in our relegation season there were many on here calling out his injuries as him not fancying playing for us in tough PL games.

 

8 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Me included.  Good player but bollocks the size of garden peas.

He went off injured 3 times in the 2022/23 season. Twice for his shoulder problem that he eventually had surgery for, and once for a knee injury that kept him out for around 10 games.

Should he have just carried on playing each time just because some armchair fans were questioning his commitment?

Edited yesterday at 13:14 by Sheaf Saint

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

 

He went off injured 3 times in the 2022/23 season. Twice for his shoulder problem that he eventually had surgery for, and once for a knee injury that kept him out for around 10 games.

Should he have just carried on playing each time just because some armchair fans were questioning his commitment?

should have had a cortisone injection and carried on the pussy.

[Wade Garrett]

9 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

 

He went off injured 3 times in the 2022/23 season. Twice for his shoulder problem that he eventually had surgery for, and once for a knee injury that kept him out for around 10 games.

Should he have just carried on playing each time just because some armchair fans were questioning his commitment?

Not armchair, at the games.  I do question his commitment.  He would go down at the drop of a hat when he didn’t fancy it.

It’s just my opinion, we’re all entitled to one.

[OldNick]

17 minutes ago, Turkish said:

should have had a cortisone injection and carried on the pussy.

Im sure your reply is tongue in cheek, but I have been carrying a frozen shoulder for 18 months, Apart from  the sleepless nights the pain is pretty fierce. Therefore I totally understand why he couldn't play. As for a knee injury again it is debilitating

[derry]

If I remember correctly ABK's problems started after he slipped on the astroturf surround and had to come off. He subsequently had to have a shoulder operation after trying to play on at PSV and was then out for a long period. That physical problem hopefully is history. Leaving after relegation happens with every team.

Having observed over the last two years and historically from his Swansea days, in my opinion his stubborness, and stupidity that eventually led to his sacking, I'm not surprised in the least, his discarding some players and favouring sometimes undeservedly others that he sidelined ABK. I'm not even sure that ABK may have called him out regarding the stupid way we indulged in kamikaze passing in our own penalty area. When he played against Cardiff he didn't and passed out to midfielders and never appeared again.

Martin in an interview noted that playing for the U21s was entirely voluntary and ABK had declined the invitation even though the inference was it would help in getting match fit. That was the last we heard of him until now.

Edited yesterday at 15:24 by derry

[FarehamSaintJames]

Quite simply he’s a dick.

He clearly wanted out when things got tough. He was also permanently injured and made of glass. 

He wanted out when we went down, and has since continued to throw his toys out the pram since the start of the season.

Maybe if he had accepted it and got his head down he might’ve played a few games by now.

He’s a nob. Let him go, get rid.

[derry]

9 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Quite simply he’s a dick.

He clearly wanted out when things got tough. He was also permanently injured and made of glass. 

He wanted out when we went down, and has since continued to throw his toys out the pram since the start of the season.

Maybe if he had accepted it and got his head down he might’ve played a few games by now.

He’s a nob. Let him go, get rid.

I personally consider that Martin froze him out as he did to others because ABK  didn't suck up to him.

[danjosaint]

2 minutes ago, derry said:

I personally consider that Martin froze him out as he did to others because ABK  didn't suck up to him.

100%

[miserableoldgit]

 

51 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Quite simply he’s a dick.

He clearly wanted out when things got tough. He was also permanently injured and made of glass. 

He wanted out when we went down, and has since continued to throw his toys out the pram since the start of the season.

Maybe if he had accepted it and got his head down he might’ve played a few games by now.

He’s a nob. Let him go, get rid.

Was he a dick because Martin froze him out or did Martin freeze him out because he was dick?🤔

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Quite simply he’s a dick.

He clearly wanted out when things got tough. He was also permanently injured and made of glass. 

He wanted out when we went down, and has since continued to throw his toys out the pram since the start of the season.

Maybe if he had accepted it and got his head down he might’ve played a few games by now.

He’s a nob. Let him go, get rid.

No!!  Martin something something... beard something

Who should ABK come in for?  The back 3 that played yesterday should be what we build from.  

[Convict Colony]

4 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Refusing to play for the U21’s was a missed opportunity to finally get some decent coaching this season. 

this is my favourite joke of the year 

Edited 23 hours ago by Convict Colony

[Tommy Mulgrew]

If this report is true, we seem to be intent on getting as many players vying for each CB position as we have for LB.  Abdul Mumin plays for a team that languishes at the bottom of La Liga; hence I, for one, believe we are scouting him seriously. 😉

https://sportwitness.co.uk/southampton-include-clubs-defensive-pillar-in-their-priority-list-saints-must-offer-e6m-in-january/

[Lord Duckhunter]

44 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

 

Who should ABK come in for?  The back 3 that played yesterday should be what we build from.  

[West end Saints]

8 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Agree to an extent but Will should also have been told by the club to bulk up over the summer as Drew Surman had to do when he joined Wolves to be able to play in the PL otherwise he’d be loaned out again because the CM areas are so much bigger and more athletic. Has the first touch and technical ability for the top flight but you can’t be 10 stone dripping wet and play in central midfield in the current day PL.

Agree, although no doubt how good he was at the end of the season, there is a big step up in the athleticism and speed of thought needed for a prem CM.

His touch and attacking passing was very effective at the end of the season - (although some who clearly can't remember those last games mocked!) he was named as the player of the plays offs by the Second Tier podcast.

I'm not sure he would make the step up to be a starter at this level tbh, although so far Aribo and Downes haven't looked it!

[Miltonaggro]

I think Juric is smart and will want to take a look at ABK regardless of any bad feeling or nonsense with previous management.  He was signed by Hassenhutl and looked a great addition in his first two months at the club prior to the shoulder injury, aged 21 and two full Germany caps and in the World Cup Squad. On his return RH has been replaced by Nathan Fucking Jones and then Selles. Relegated and Russell Martin has a look for eight weeks and he's sent out on loan to PSV with Jack Stephens preferred and made captain.  Post return from loan he's left out of the first team squad by Martin.  All in all, he may have been sulking but its not unreasonable to see the reasons he might have wanted out at Saints, and the hope has to be that be that an experienced and credible coach like Juric can get him back to his best in the first team group - clean slate - and if he still wants out in the summer they'll likely be more suitors.  

[Sheaf Saint]

2 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Quite simply he’s a dick.

He clearly wanted out when things got tough. He was also permanently injured and made of glass. 

He wanted out when we went down, and has since continued to throw his toys out the pram since the start of the season.

Maybe if he had accepted it and got his head down he might’ve played a few games by now.

He’s a nob. Let him go, get rid.

What is the evidence for this?

[Oldandtired]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

 

Who should ABK come in for?  The back 3 that played yesterday should be what we build from.  

If you ever think about going on stage let me know. You are a natural comedian. 

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, Oldandtired said:

If you ever think about going on stage let me know. You are a natural comedian. 

Granted, I am fucking funny, too good for here. 
But who does our much vaunted German international (former) come in for? THB, Jan or Wood? It really is the least of our worries at present. 

[Oldandtired]

12 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Granted, I am fucking funny, too good for here. 
But who does our much vaunted German international (former) come in for? THB, Jan or Wood? It really is the least of our worries at present. 

Feel free to seek pastures new then.

I would also disagree with your assertion that a solid defence is the least of our worries at the minute. If we can keep a clean sheet then it gives us half a chance of possibly snatching something. I fear that your quoted back three is not up to consistently delivering that.

[pimpin4rizeal]

9 hours ago, saintant said:

Footballers are a pretty egotistical lot and often not blessed with the ability to make rational decisions. I'm hoping IJ will be able to talk him round and get him playing but clearly it will not be easy. I guess we need every man jack giving 100% and that may or may not include ABK but certainly worth trying.

I just want juric to be his own man on decisions like this there’s nothing to be gained by following on from martins favourites and non favourites .. we will now be playing a different brand of football and could have some diamonds that where not shining  under russ ..

the abk we saw under Ralph was looking almost up with lavia  as prospects go for the first part of the season he looked the nuts . Not sure why so many are quick to write him off for behind the scenes stuff there’s clearly a very talented prospect here and we don’t really know why he wasn’t martins cup of tea what we do know is that Martin is a very stubborn guy and it’s his way or not at all 

Edited 20 hours ago by pimpin4rizeal

[notnowcato]

12 minutes ago, Oldandtired said:

Feel free to seek pastures new then.

I would also disagree with your assertion that a solid defence is the least of our worries at the minute. If we can keep a clean sheet then it gives us half a chance of possibly snatching something. I fear that your quoted back three is not up to consistently delivering that.

Feel free to answer the question. 

[davefizzy14]

Really hoping to see ABK back in contention now 😊 

[derry]

Nobody is saying ABK should automatically get into the team however if fit I defy anybody to say he's not worth a place on the bench. Potentially our best centre back but has to deserve a place and show by his attitude that he wants to play.

Edited 6 hours ago by derry

[washsaint]

Good god, posters' blind hatred (yes hatred) for Martin seems to make you forget the real reasons ABK is out in the cold:

• Him and Salisu had a terrible attitude during the relegation season and basically bottled it (as confirmed by various sources/the club)
• He couldn't wait to leave 
• He refused to play for the U21s
• Someone with good connections posted on here that some of the players said that he has an appalling attitude, one of the worst of any professional they have encountered

But let's say it Martin's fault for freezing him out.  Juts like Lesley had one decent sub performance but is now a world beater that Martin mistreated (with the same posters having lambasted his performances previously).

 

 

[verlaine1979]

2 hours ago, notnowcato said:

Granted, I am fucking funny, too good for here. 
But who does our much vaunted German international (former) come in for? THB, Jan or Wood? It really is the least of our worries at present. 

When fit, he's a better player than either Bednarek (who we should've shit-canned seasons ago) and Wood (who has improved of late, but from a pretty ropey base).

[egg]

8 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

When fit, he's a better player than either Bednarek (who we should've shit-canned seasons ago) and Wood (who has improved of late, but from a pretty ropey base).

He isn't. 

Talk of playing a player who hasn't trained is pointless. He's no closer to the team than Stewart. 

[notnowcato]

I’d rather a player that wanted to be here, through thick and thin, than someone who hasn’t shown any evidence that he does want to fight for us. Quite happy coining his £xxK per week, waiting for the next transfer window. He can fuck off.