Coaching shake up - confirmed

[Badger]

Wasn't Ralph rumoured to be against changes and losing part of the coaching team ?

[Give it to Ron]

So we replace them with 3 of Ralph’s choice and we lose first 6 games as is possible what then stuck with 3 coaches a new guy may not want and wants to bring in his own 

Ralph should have completed the clear out. His tactics and naivety will still be here

Edited 25 May, 2022 by Give it to Ron

[ErwinK1961]

Wonder if we’ll see someone like Carl Martin promoted? Seems to have done a very good job with the youth.

[Suhari]

7 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

 

 

I would assume that won't sit to well with 'the powers that be'!

[Matthew Le God]

Just now, Give it to Ron said:

So we replace them with 3 of Ralph’s choice and we lose first 6 games as is possible what then stuck with 3 coaches a new guy may not want and wants to bring in his own 

I doubt they'd be solely Ralph's choice. Would make more sense for Ralph to be on a panel of people selecting the replacements.  

[ErwinK1961]

1 minute ago, Give it to Ron said:

So we replace them with 3 of Ralph’s choice and we lose first 6 games as is possible what then stuck with 3 coaches a new guy may not want and wants to bring in his own 

I can’t see them being his picks, for that reason.

[DT]

12 minutes ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

For those worried about Kelvin, I’m sure the club will find a role for him if they still want him around to make people laff

They could just watch his gaffs videos

[Badger]

15 minutes ago, Hodgey said:

Interesting that 2 of the coaches in Watson and Davis were clearly not Ralph’s choosing. Whilst I hate to see people made redundant, it never makes sense to me when a club stipulates a new manager has to work with incumbent coaches, which is what we kept doing.

This was one of Rupert's lasting strategies so that if a manager walked out the staff were likely to remain in position for some form of continuity. 

Also why Moyes turned us down in 2001 when he was at Preston.

Edited 25 May, 2022 by Badger

[badgerx16]

4 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

So we replace them with 3 of Ralph’s choice and we lose first 6 games as is possible what then stuck with 3 coaches a new guy may not want and wants to bring in his own 

 

Other than putting out and collecting the cones, and maintaining dressing room bantz, what benefit to the team were KD and DW ?

[The Kraken]

3 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

I can’t see them being his picks, for that reason.

This is the part that troubles me. A manager and his coaches need to work together, bounce ideas off each other etc. 

if Ralph is forced to have coaches he doesn’t pick, that spells disaster to me. My concern is whether or not Ralph is fully on board with this. If he is, great, I’d only ask why he hasn’t effected this sort of change before now. If he isn’t, well, the options are stark.

[64saint]

3 minutes ago, Badger said:

This was one of Rupert's lasting strategies so that if a manager walked out the staff were likely to remain in position for some form of continuity. 

 

Continuity in staff makes sense in many environments but probably not in a football club when a new manager comes in.  They need their own staff around them.  Shame to see people lose their jobs but it had to be done.

[Teddeer]

1 hour ago, EBS1980 said:

https://www.southamptonfc.com/news/2022-05-25/club-statement-southampton-football-club-coaching-changes

Some good news at last. Let's hope we now recruit some coaches with the skills needed at this level because we've spent too long with the previous clueless bunch.

[Sfcphilc]

Very welcome news tbh. Like others have said it's never nice for someone to lose their jobs, especially Kelvin, but change was definitely needed. I'm still unsure whether Ralph is the man to take us forward but willing to see what business we do in the summer and how we start next season. If we're in trouble by the World Cup break then he has to go. 

[Matthew Le God]

8 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

I can’t see them being his picks, for that reason.

 

1 minute ago, The Kraken said:

This is the part that troubles me. A manager and his coaches need to work together, bounce ideas off each other etc. 

if Ralph is forced to have coaches he doesn’t pick, that spells disaster to me. My concern is whether or not Ralph is fully on board with this. If he is, great, I’d only ask why he hasn’t effected this sort of change before now. If he isn’t, well, the options are stark.

1) Ralph picks them

2) The club picks them

There is a third option...

3) Ralph is on a panel along with others picking them

Number 3 makes the most sense.

[The Kraken]

Just now, Matthew Le God said:

 

1) Ralph picks them

2) The club picks them

There is a third option...

3) Ralph is on a panel along with others picking them

Number 3 makes the most sense.

Yes it does. But we don’t know yet. I’m hoping for this outcome and that Ralph is fully on board with it.

[Master Bates]

25 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

 

 

Oh very dear me, someone needs to tell him it's 'their' not 'there'.

[Baird of the land]

Good to see signs the new owners aren’t sitting idly by accepting the garbage served up last few months.

It’ll be interesting to see how it works and whether Ralph finds a way to thrive through it or if it really diminishes him and leads to his departure.

[Badger]

Just wait until tomorrow when the club announce Les Reed is coming back to give Ralph the benefit of his knowledge as First Team Coach.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Well something had to change and these three were the fall guys. Ralph is not a strong coach in my opinion and the evidence shouts that nor were these guys. I think Kelv and co were too close and matey with the playing staff.

My expectation is that someone of Stuart Pearce’s experience and gravity is brought in to be no.2 and provide continuity when Ralph heads off next summer. He’ll have a much better idea of how to mount a credible attack than his predecessors that’s for sure.

[saint michael]

So Ralph didn’t instruct them on what they should be training the players in and after all this time here has decided they are the issue and don’t have the skill to do it …….hmmm. I wonder what he is accountable for 

[S-Clarke]

This is the sort of ruthless action we've lacked for the last 5/6 years. We've just dawdled through pre-season to pre-season keeping the same status quo and never upsetting the apple cart. This is such a positive sign of change and the first I've seen in many years.

There is no doubt that there needed to be a big change. Fleming, Davis and Watson have been around for many years - before Ralph. I'm sure Fleming and Watson at least supported Pelligrino and possibly Hughes to a degree, so those areas have been a problem for many years for me.

It's also admission, in my opinion, that the club feel that they've never been able to truly back Ralph with his own people, or at least people has a significant say in appointing, rather than just a jobs for boys effort.

I don't like seeing people lose their jobs and Davis in particular has been a fantastic figure around the club for many years, but you can't stick on sentiment and you have to be ruthless and that's exactly what we've done and it feels long overdue. This is a positive quick start to what needs to be a big summer for us.

[Toussaint]

47 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Pretty much this...

That’s Ralph in a nutshell 

[Toussaint]

7 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

This is the sort of ruthless action we've lacked for the last 5/6 years. We've just dawdled through pre-season to pre-season keeping the same status quo and never upsetting the apple cart. This is such a positive sign of change and the first I've seen in many years.

There is no doubt that there needed to be a big change. Fleming, Davis and Watson have been around for many years - before Ralph. I'm sure Fleming and Watson at least supported Pelligrino and possibly Hughes to a degree, so those areas have been a problem for many years for me.

It's also admission, in my opinion, that the club feel that they've never been able to truly back Ralph with his own people, or at least people has a significant say in appointing, rather than just a jobs for boys effort.

I don't like seeing people lose their jobs and Davis in particular has been a fantastic figure around the club for many years, but you can't stick on sentiment and you have to be ruthless and that's exactly what we've done and it feels long overdue. This is a positive quick start to what needs to be a big summer for us.

Not Ruthless enough.

[S-Clarke]

4 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Not Ruthless enough.

I guess you're referring to Ralph?

The owners aren't stupid, they'll appreciate that Ralph has not really had any backing or support over his previous years. There's only so much turd polishing you can do on your own.

I'm glad they're not reactive and focusing on just sacking the manager and pin all problems on him, they've looked beyond that and have seen the deeper problems which isn't always the most obvious. I've got more confidence in the owners now than I did.

Edited 25 May, 2022 by S-Clarke

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Welcome to our new coaches: Dave Beasant, Peter Schmeichel and Rene Higuita

[Toussaint]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

I guess you're referring to Ralph?

The owners aren't stupid, they'll appreciate that Ralph has not really had any backing or support over his previous years. There's only so much turd polishing you can do on your own.

I'm glad they're not reactive and focusing on just sacking the manager and pin all problems on him, they've looked beyond that and have seen the deeper problems which isn't always the most obvious. I've got more confidence in the owners now than I did.

They may still have Ralph in their sights, maybe it’ll take a bit longer, maybe not. Whilst Ralph is not responsible for everything that is wrong with the club he has definitely played his part. But, like everyone else, I am only observing from the outside and making assumptions. Hopefully they know what they are doing.  When we do get some new coaches, I hope he values and trusts their input.

[Toussaint]

1 minute ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Welcome to our new coaches: Dave Beasant, Peter Schmeichel and Rene Higuita

My money was on John Burridge 

[bpsaint]

Let’s hope this works better than “Eric Black needs to go, he’s the problem”.

Still believe Ralph should be following them out the door and an entire new coaching team should be bought in.

Edited 25 May, 2022 by bpsaint

[Lord Duckhunter]

Looks like Teflon has got away with it again. 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

I'm struggling to think of a precedent for a new coaching staff coming in and turning round a club's fortunes.

Actually I can't think of a club sacking three coaches so far into a manager's tenure.

I can think of new assistant managers coming in. Steve Bould was supposed to make Wenger's teams able to defend (didn't just long). And that guy who came in at Newcastle under Bruce did nothing in the long run

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Hopefully we're looking at Roy Keane, Stuart Pearce and Gordon Ramsay to give the players a good shouting

[Teddeer]

6 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

They may still have Ralph in their sights, maybe it’ll take a bit longer, maybe not. Whilst Ralph is not responsible for everything that is wrong with the club he has definitely played his part. But, like everyone else, I am only observing from the outside and making assumptions. Hopefully they know what they are doing.  When we do get some new coaches, I hope he values and trusts their input.

Would cost the new owners a lot of dosh to sack Ralph. I think that is one of the reasons they have decided to give him another roll of the dice.  They may also think he can do a better job given better players and coaches so let's see what tools they give him. I'd have got rid but can see why they've given him a chance.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Just now, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I'm struggling to think of a precedent for a new coaching staff coming in and turning round a club's fortunes.

Actually I can't think of a club sacking three coaches so far into a manager's tenure.

I can think of new assistant managers coming in. Steve Bould was supposed to make Wenger's teams able to defend (didn't just long). And that guy who came in at Newcastle under Bruce did nothing in the long run

Their role isn’t to improve the coaching set up.  Their role is to shield the manager and let the mug fans think the last lot were the problem, rather than the bloke who is actually running the show. 

 

[Convict Colony]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Their role isn’t to improve the coaching set up.  Their role is to shield the manager and let the mug fans think the last lot were the problem, rather than the bloke who is actually running the show. 

 

man you've lived with our poor performance too long, you've got a form of stockholm syndrome.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

The first of the new coaches arrives...

[Give it to Ron]

17 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

They may still have Ralph in their sights, maybe it’ll take a bit longer, maybe not. Whilst Ralph is not responsible for everything that is wrong with the club he has definitely played his part. But, like everyone else, I am only observing from the outside and making assumptions. Hopefully they know what they are doing.  When we do get some new coaches, I hope he values and trusts their input.

Plus hope they are able to make a sub at right time, change the tactics and shape otherwise it’s the same naivety & tactical bollox we have had last 2 years.

[S-Clarke]

 

[Dman]

1 hour ago, SuperSAINT said:

Sparkes & Kitzbichler deemed to be doing good jobs, then. 

To be fair, I thought / think Sparkes has done a decent job. We’ve definitely seen an improvement in the keepers if Forster is anything to go by. 
 

Don’t know a great deal about Kitzbicher, but isn’t he basically a analyst? and in the grand scheme of things has been here for a fairly short period of time (waiting for MLG to MLG me on this one). 
 

The other 3 have been useless for years now, especially Watson. Kelv is a decent enough bloke but offers us nothing and Fleming again, very average.
 

All round, a good move by the club imo.  

[Mr Saints]

Interesting move. Wouldn’t be surprised if the owners have an eye on one of the new coaches stepping up if/when Ralph is sacked 10 games into next season, assuming we’re struggling.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

30 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I guess you're referring to Ralph?

The owners aren't stupid, they'll appreciate that Ralph has not really had any backing or support over his previous years. There's only so much turd polishing you can do on your own.

I'm glad they're not reactive and focusing on just sacking the manager and pin all problems on him, they've looked beyond that and have seen the deeper problems which isn't always the most obvious. I've got more confidence in the owners now than I did.

Don't see how you can say this really. Ralph is the boss with ultimate responsibility. His coaching staff aren't the ones who make him deploy the wooden and sometimes bizarre tactics he does. They aren't the ones who force him not to make substitutes when its plain even to the average fan that one is needed. He appears to be teflon. No other prem club would have kept him.

[MarkSFC]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

 

 

Good does not automatically equal competent! Get over it Bartram. 

[Dusic]

Have to assume Ralph is happy with this too as I think he would have walked otherwise.

He isn't stupid. He has worked within the RB setup and knows what good coaches look like (Rohl for example). He more than anyone would have known if Davis, Watson and Fleming were good or not.

He was happy to take input from Rohl, and then after his departure has seemingly preferred to go it alone. That in itself is telling.

Crocker has brought in some good coaches within the academy setup and also clearly knows the needs for modern coaches. You would imagine they can collectively pick well.

As an aside, I find some of the disrespect towards Ralph pretty off. Whatever we may think about him tactically at times, its a fact he has kept us up in 4 seasons where investment has been limited and also clear that he genuinely cares and puts everything into the job, in a way not all managers do. I think he now needs backing over the summer, and then its up to him to deliver a decent start with a return to our more proactive style. He has earned that chance IMO. Can he take it? Time will tell.

Edited 25 May, 2022 by Dusic

[Dman]

Wouldn’t mind Beattie getting a look in as a coach. Management experience (all be it very limited) and was assistant to Monk at Birmingham. 
 

Worked with Che in the past, and seemingly got him firing. 
 

We’re going to need someone who can really work with the defence as well. 
 

Also need someone tactically astute, in the mould of Rohl, to assist and help Ralph and manage the squad day to day. 

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Don't see how you can say this really. Ralph is the boss with ultimate responsibility. His coaching staff aren't the ones who make him deploy the wooden and sometimes bizarre tactics he does. They aren't the ones who force him not to make substitutes when its plain even to the average fan that one is needed. He appears to be teflon. No other prem club would have kept him.

Of course he has the responsibility, but you have to realise that there is more to performances/results/culture than just the manager. It goes deeper than that. Watford are a fine example of that, they change their manager every 5 mins for a bit of short-term bounce but whatever is deeper rooted in the club comes back and bites them again. It's a cycle you can easily get yourself into by thinking it's all on the manager.

You could be the most talented person in the world at your job, but without someone equally qualified alongside you to be a soundboard or to make you think twice about things then you stagnate because you're afraid to take risks, you have no one to validate what you're thinking. Not just in the football, but most professions.

We could have easily gone down the road of dumping the coaches, the manager and everything. Where would that have got us? In a position where all of our transfer business would be on hold, and we'd be looking for a manager for weeks and weeks. It wouldn't help us at this moment in time, not with just 4 or so weeks until pre-season starts.

The club have shown an awareness here that they're not happy and they've made probably the least 'impactful' change they could make to the coaching setup in relation to our immediate plans. It's now a chance for us to back Ralph with both people who can stand up to him a bit, question him, challenge him. That sort of move can often re-ignite something in someone who has become stale, because I will always stick by my view that Ralph is a decent manager and we'd struggle to replace with anyone better at this moment in time.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

t wouldn't help us at this moment in time, not with just 4 or so weeks until pre-season starts.

which is why he should have been sacked by now and the new manager already in place. However, i recognise its pointless arguing about it. If this is the reality, I hope it's the right decision, we can get some good players in and move on. There will be no more excuses for Ralph though after this.

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, Dman said:

Wouldn’t mind Beattie getting a look in as a coach. Management experience (all be it very limited) and was assistant to Monk at Birmingham. 
 

Worked with Che in the past, and seemingly got him firing. 
 

We’re going to need someone who can really work with the defence as well. 
 

Also need someone tactically astute, in the mould of Rohl, to assist and help Ralph and manage the squad day to day. 

Maybe they’re bringing in TWar as head of analysis, would explain his absence from here 

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

which is why he should have been sacked by now and the new manager already in place. However, i recognise its pointless arguing about it. If this is the reality, I hope it's the right decision, we can get some good players in and move on. There will be no more excuses for Ralph though after this.

I agree that it looks like there will be no more 'excuses' after this summer, I think we're going to genuinely back him.

I guess people will be torn on Ralph and I'm happy to appreciate those views as I can understand why people are not struck on him, but it's just worth looking a bit deeper to the root of our problems, as most of our issues are long-running ones which have been lingering long before Ralph came in.

[Paulwantsapint81]

Dave Watson leaves same time as Forster goes, wasn’t it rumoured before that they were a partnership & DW would follow FF leaving for permanent switch 

KD was promoted to appease the fans/players under pellegrino, club could find him new job as corporate entertainment 

[DT]

22 minutes ago, Dman said:

Wouldn’t mind Beattie getting a look in as a coach. Management experience (all be it very limited) and was assistant to Monk at Birmingham. 
 

Worked with Che in the past, and seemingly got him firing. 
 

We’re going to need someone who can really work with the defence as well. 
 

Also need someone tactically astute, in the mould of Rohl, to assist and help Ralph and manage the squad day to day. 

What’s John Terry up to?

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Deckchairs being rearranged while the captain on the bridge steams ahead as per normal. 
 

Blaming the lackeys while the boss survives.