Coaching shake up - confirmed

[redder freak]

When Ralph leaves, the new manager will bring in his own backroom team. And the manager after that. They have someone in mind to replace everyone, including you when you leave or die. Succession planning.

[HarvSFC]

  On 25/05/2022 at 20:30, Dman said:

Wouldn’t mind Beattie getting a look in as a coach. Management experience (all be it very limited) and was assistant to Monk at Birmingham. 
 

Worked with Che in the past, and seemingly got him firing. 
 

We’re going to need someone who can really work with the defence as well. 
 

Also need someone tactically astute, in the mould of Rohl, to assist and help Ralph and manage the squad day to day. 

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Obviously, I don't know the inner workings of Beattie's coaching career and if it's just a coincidence, but Adams and Chris Wood's goalscoring records shot up and haven't been repeated by either (although now playing at a higher leverl) after working with Beattie. Adams went from a 5 goals in 30 striker to 22 in 46 the following season, while Wood went from 13 in 36 to 27 in 44. 

Now, at Wigan, their two top scorers in Will Keane and Callum Lang have had their best scoring seasons. Will Keane, especially, 29 years old, only scored more than three goals in a single league campaign on one occasion before the most recent season, which was 10. He's just bagged 26 goals in 44 appearances.

My only question would be why he isn't at a bigger club than Wigan, as the results from an outsiders perspective look very impressive.

[Ralph Fastenbüttl]

  On 25/05/2022 at 20:53, DT said:

What’s John Terry up to?

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Being a colossal cunt, if past form is anything to go by.

[egg]

Good start, but it feels a bit like sacking Boris's helpers after partygate but keeping the big man himself. 

[Christophenburg]

Can we have Jan Kluitenberg back please? We were never fitter then when he was conditioning/fitness/performance coach

[MarkSFC]

These dismissals feel positive. The combination of the coaching team has not overall been positive I'm my opinion. 

Just because people are good or nice as has been mentioned does not mean they are necessarily competent or the right people for our set up. 

I have been recently just on the side of getting rid of RH but perhaps his struggles have  been due to the standard of those around him. 

On the side of the benefit of the doubt for him he has been hamstrung in the transfer market and within his squads for 3 seasons, and perhaps for similar reasons been hamstrung with his coaching team to make changes. Perhaps his judgement of people is not great. 

Either way this move by the new people should be seen initially as positive action which hopefully creates a better environment. 

When we see who is coming in, we can make better judgement.

I hope that we back this up with player changes quickly to give all new parties the most time possible to work together before the new season. 

[nta786]

I’d love to have Nigel Adkins back in some capacity, even though promotion season was now 10 years ago!

Where has the time gone!!! Although to be honest my thinking is definitely more sentimental than rational. 
 

Thierry Henry was assistant to Martinez at Belgium I think. I’d like a big name in there at the highest level and I’m not talking about Theo Walcott. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

  On 25/05/2022 at 21:16, redder freak said:

They have someone in mind to replace everyone, including you when you leave or die. Succession planning.

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Hi! This am Young Holmes and Watson! This am my very firstest post! Grumpy old Holmes and Watson says one day I shall be doings all his posts!

So they wills be better than now!

🙂

[suewhistle]

  On 25/05/2022 at 20:28, Dusic said:

Have to assume Ralph is happy with this too as I think he would have walked otherwise.

He isn't stupid. He has worked within the RB setup and knows what good coaches look like (Rohl for example). He more than anyone would have known if Davis, Watson and Fleming were good or not.

He was happy to take input from Rohl, and then after his departure has seemingly preferred to go it alone. That in itself is telling.

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I'd agree with this, and the speed with which it has been done after the end of the season looks like it has been planned for a while. I suspect under Gao there were no funds for a shake up and mid-season wasn't the time to do it.

Now for a re-shaping of the team, and then we'll be in a better position to assess RH. I have to say that when we were playing well we were a delight to watch but... If we cut out the worst of the errors and get some backroom staff who can instill better concentration and organisation in certain situations we might do a lot better.

 

[Saint NL]

Get the big names in....

Le Tissier - fitness coach 

Franny Benali - shooting coach 

Le Tissier again - social media training 

 

What can go wrong?

 

 

 

[John Boy Saint]

Bit late to this party - Watson going is him standing by his word from a few years back “If Fraser leaves then I will” 

 

That was obviously before he was made set piece coach - which is a cockeyed position when JWP is rifling in Exocets 

[Convict Colony]

Just get the best qualified, respected coaches possible, we don't need names just expertise 

[eurosaint]

  On 25/05/2022 at 19:54, Toussaint said:

They may still have Ralph in their sights, maybe it’ll take a bit longer, maybe not. Whilst Ralph is not responsible for everything that is wrong with the club he has definitely played his part. But, like everyone else, I am only observing from the outside and making assumptions. Hopefully they know what they are doing.  When we do get some new coaches, I hope he values and trusts their input.

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Spot on....

It is impossible for us to know the inner workings of the whole set up !

The new directors have a good track record in this area and we have to trust that they'll get it right rather than incessantly complain for the sake of it !

[EBS1980]

  On 26/05/2022 at 05:28, Convict Colony said:

Just get the best qualified, respected coaches possible, we don't need names just expertise 

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Oh come on, you know if we appoint someone people haven’t heard of they will be on his back straight away as not good enough. However if they were a good footballer then clearly they will be better coach and who will get more grace from fans. 

[VectisSaint]

  On 25/05/2022 at 23:05, John Boy Saint said:

Bit late to this party - Watson going is him standing by his word from a few years back “If Fraser leaves then I will” 

 

That was obviously before he was made set piece coach - which is a cockeyed position when JWP is rifling in Exocets 

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More to do with defending set pieces (corners) from what I understood. You don't have a coach telling JWP how to strike a ball. Considering how bad we are at corners it's a wonder Watson lasted as long as he did.

[Convict Colony]

  On 26/05/2022 at 06:56, EBS1980 said:

Oh come on, you know if we appoint someone people haven’t heard of they will be on his back straight away as not good enough. However if they were a good footballer then clearly they will be better coach and who will get more grace from fans. 

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Of course but fortunately football fans dont contribute to the coaching or the team delivering results and are unqualified to give an opinion on the coaching pool available in the professional game.

[david in sweden]

A surprise? ......maybe not.   Normally the club sacks the manager first and his coaches go at the same time, but clearly

the Board still has some confidence in Ralph.... and / or .... doesn't have a suitable replacement lined up yet.

Clearly whatever the coaching staff had done since the Koeman's departure  hasn't been enough, and if they stayed

much longer they would just become " part of the furniture ", and stay around until they retire.  

All 3  men are around 40 -ish... and ought to be looking to advance  their coaching careers elsewhere. 

 

With the squad getting younger, one wonders if they were seen as relics of their father's generation, and the instructions  "didn't stick ". 

The signings of Broja, Livramento and Small signalled to many teenage talents that Saints may be the club to advance them in quick time.

I hope we can get a coach with a goal-scoring background, as the likes of Puel and Pellegrino brought their defensive mindset with them

and the outcome was dour ...to say the least.  As a former striker, Ralph knows about goal scoring prowess, and hopefully we can get 

a new man with a good strikers background that might raise the standard somewhat. 

 

History shows not all good players make good coaches, but the presence of 3 goalkeeping coaches did little to improve the defence ....or the attack.

Clearly, it isn't just the playing squad that needs a major overhaul and Ralph probably has one more season....(or until New Year ).....to get results.

 

  

 

[stevy777_x]

To be honest we ve been saying backroom team needed changes for ages.

If Ralph has a certain style of play, aka gegen press, why didn’t we bring some that knew the style from day 1.

Also i ve been quizzing Adam Blackmore to ask question whether Ralph was satisfied of his backroom team and he never asked the question.

[david in sweden]

  On 25/05/2022 at 19:13, ErwinK1961 said:

Wonder if we’ll see someone like Carl Martin promoted? Seems to have done a very good job with the youth.

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Might work well.... if the U18 lads follow him upto the B team level.   They are the best Youth squad Saints have had in living memory.

[Gingeletiss]

We need, a defensive coach, an attacking coach, and a fitness coach. IMHO.

[SuperSAINT]

  On 26/05/2022 at 08:05, Gingeletiss said:

We need, a defensive coach, an attacking coach, and a fitness coach. IMHO.

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A throw-in coach, please.

[eurosaint]

  On 26/05/2022 at 08:05, Gingeletiss said:

We need, a defensive coach, an attacking coach, and a fitness coach. IMHO.

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Seems the only coach that’s any good is the one that takes us to and from the matches 😎

[saintadjg]

  On 26/05/2022 at 08:06, SuperSAINT said:

A throw-in coach, please.

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Ive never seen a worse team than us when it comes to throw ins

[Saint Garrett]

  On 25/05/2022 at 19:12, Give it to Ron said:

So we replace them with 3 of Ralph’s choice and we lose first 6 games as is possible what then stuck with 3 coaches a new guy may not want and wants to bring in his own 

Ralph should have completed the clear out. His tactics and naivety will still be here

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I’ve been told he’s got first 12 games next season to prove he’s the right man to take us forward. He stayed by the skin of his teeth as the saying goes. 

[AlexLaw76]

I wonder who got fired due to having CB take throw ins?

 

[Sarnia Cherie]

  On 26/05/2022 at 08:19, saintadjg said:

Ive never seen a worse team than us when it comes to throw ins

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Bring back Rory Delap. 😂

[Wade Garrett]

Stuart Pearce has just left West Ham and apparently is a good defensive coach. 

[Dorchester Saint]

  On 25/05/2022 at 19:12, Give it to Ron said:

So we replace them with 3 of Ralph’s choice and we lose first 6 games as is possible what then stuck with 3 coaches a new guy may not want and wants to bring in his own 

Ralph should have completed the clear out. His tactics and naivety will still be here

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Sounds like you would actually like that to happen….I bet you’re a right laugh on the piss 🙄

[Toussaint]

  On 26/05/2022 at 08:37, Saint Garrett said:

I’ve been told he’s got first 12 games next season to prove he’s the right man to take us forward. He stayed by the skin of his teeth as the saying goes. 

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That sounds very plausible. The reasons given for poor performance were- 20/21 season it  injuries and squad depth, injuries resolved themselves and squad depth was addressed over the summer. 21/22  season it was put down to the quality of players and assistants, if both of those things are address over the summer then he has absolutely nowhere to go if we don't get of to a reasonable start.  

Edited 26 May, 2022 by Toussaint

[Pamplemousse]

In a minority here but I liked Salisu's throw ins. We definitely did create some good chances from them. Am I right in saying JWP's goal against Spurs came from it?

[S-Clarke]

  On 26/05/2022 at 11:23, Pamplemousse said:

In a minority here but I liked Salisu's throw ins. We definitely did create some good chances from them. Am I right in saying JWP's goal against Spurs came from it?

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I think they are a bit daft to be honest, the goals we can get from them are very rare and a bit freakish.

In the main they seem to cause us problems as we automatically become lopsided when we're broken on, and it's not hard to break on us as we know! I think it's a daft tactic to try and gain the most minuscule advantage ever, easily nullified as well. The fact we're looking for these minuscule gains is probably a big admission that our creative players are absolute tosh!

Let's just let the full backs take the throw in's as every football club has done, since the year dot and buy better creative players to make chances in the conventional way.

Edited 26 May, 2022 by S-Clarke

[Piran]

  On 25/05/2022 at 20:53, DT said:

What’s John Terry up to?

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With your previous suggestion of Sean Dyche for manager, DT, there's only one certainty here. It's that you and I, and I suspect quite a few others, are on totally different wave-lengths...

[Badger]

  On 25/05/2022 at 20:21, Mr Saints said:

Interesting move. Wouldn’t be surprised if the owners have an eye on one of the new coaches stepping up if/when Ralph is sacked 10 games into next season, assuming we’re struggling.

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Have thought similar but more about the possibility of the long term successor if they accept RH's likely retirement as speculated rather than after 12 games or so.

Brentford/Ankerson appointed Frank as an Assistant Head Coach for a couple of years before he took over so there might be some longer term planning involved here.

[saintrich]

Not surprising at all when you look at the coaching set ups at Midtjylland and Brentford where Rasmus Ankersen has worked previously. E.g Midtjylland being the first team to use a full time throw in coach- Thomas Gronnemark, who is now at Liverpool + Brentford losing their goalkeeping coach to Arsenal. 

Clearly Ankersen has an eye on doing things properly.

 

[Suhari]

  On 26/05/2022 at 12:25, saintrich said:

Not surprising at all when you look at the coaching set ups at Midtjylland and Brentford where Rasmus Ankersen has worked previously. E.g Midtjylland being the first team to use a full time throw in coach- Thomas Gronnemark, who is now at Liverpool + Brentford losing their goalkeeping coach to Arsenal. 

Clearly Ankersen has an eye on doing things properly.

 

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I didn't know that.

Seems that detailed planning and uncovering even small advantages is a 'thing' for Ankerson.  I was always a fan of some of the things Cortese said around this (e.g. taking players own matresses when staying away).

Really get quite optimistic and even excited to see how this summer will unfold.

[Badger]

  On 26/05/2022 at 12:31, Suhari said:

I didn't know that.

Seems that detailed planning and uncovering even small advantages is a 'thing' for Ankerson.  I was always a fan of some of the things Cortese said around this (e.g. taking players own matresses when staying away).

Really get quite optimistic and even excited to see how this summer will unfold.

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Yet most people were dismissive of Rupert Lowe and his looking to attention to detail at the time. I accept that trying to fund it (SCW for example) after relegation was poorly timed but the idea of it was also ridiculed. Seems we've moved on.

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

  On 25/05/2022 at 19:12, Badger said:

Wasn't Ralph rumoured to be against changes and losing part of the coaching team ?

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This is the bit which intrigues me. It would appear, as things stand, that Ralph is staying so how much involvement/say has he had in these departures? Did he go to the new board and say "look lads, these guys are duds and aren't helping me progress the team" or was it more that they said to him "Ralph, we're getting rid of these 3 to bring in some 'proper' coaches to assist you" and, possibly even, "so there will be no excuses from you if we stay shit"...

[Christophenburg]

Does anyone have thoughts on assistants/coaching staff? Seems much less exciting and people know fewer names, but it's just as interesting!

I've always liked the look of Rene Maric, he's been Marco Rose's assistant since Rose's days in the Salzburg under-18s, got promoted with Rose to the Salzburg first team, and has been with him through to Mönchengladbach and most recently Dortmund. Now Rose is out of work Maric is available.

Robert Klauss would have been a good bet having been one of the managers in the youth set-up at Leipzig when Ralph was there, but I think he's managing the FC Nuremberg first team now.

Achim Beierlorzer seems like a Ralphy-appointment. He was a youth manager at Leipzig before being promoted to interim first-team manager, and stayed on as assistant to Rangnick when he was brought in permanently. When our Ralph joined he managed in the youth set-up, and after a few seasons away as first-team manager elsewhere went back to Leipzig as Jesse Marsch's assistant, and then caretaker when Marsch left until Tedesco was appointed. Having worked with Marsch, Ralph and Rangnick, he is clearly in the 'playbook' mould and, importantly, I think he is out of work at the moment.

I know Ralph personally admires Zsolt Low who was one of his assistants at Leipzig. When Ralph came here Zsolt joined Tuchel at PSG and is now assistant at Chelsea - I think that's unlikely to happen!! Very much a playbook-y appointment though

Edited 26 May, 2022 by Christophenburg

[richardc]

If Ralph is going at the end of next season the club are probably looking to derisk the situation and have some form of continuity for when he leaves and a new manager comes in - so makes sense to get rid of theses now. I think Ralph is having little say in the longer term strategy of the club and seems to me to be staying for a bit of face saving. 

[Trader]

I think they should appoint an ex-goalkeeper to the first team coaching role.

 

[Turkish]

  On 26/05/2022 at 13:26, Trader said:

I think they should appoint an ex-goalkeeper to the first team coaching role.

 

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We just sacked one.

[igsey]

Glad to see this, correct decision and it's happened nice and quickly after the end of the season.

It will be interesting to see who we bring in as replacements - Ralph's choice of staff? Or a group with one eye on having a decent interim staff should we start the season poorly and Ralph gets the boot?

[DT]

  On 26/05/2022 at 12:16, Piran said:

With your previous suggestion of Sean Dyche for manager, DT, there's only one certainty here. It's that you and I, and I suspect quite a few others, are on totally different wave-lengths...

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Who do you want, with a realistic (as in, given we're skint) hat on?

[DT]

  On 26/05/2022 at 09:16, Wade Garrett said:

Stuart Pearce has just left West Ham and apparently is a good defensive coach. 

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Could do a lot worse

[Matthew Le God]

  On 26/05/2022 at 13:14, richardc said:

If Ralph is going at the end of next season the club are probably looking to derisk the situation and have some form of continuity for when he leaves and a new manager comes in - so makes sense to get rid of theses now. I think Ralph is having little say in the longer term strategy of the club and seems to me to be staying for a bit of face saving. 

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He is contracted for 2 more years until 2024.

[Trader]

  On 26/05/2022 at 13:27, Turkish said:

We just sacked one.

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Two actually.

I was just trying to point out the idiocy of goalkeepers coaching outfield players. They basically have no idea.

 

[saint lard]

 Ralph's former Assistant at Ingolstadt is available this summer, Michael Henke.  Highly experienced coach/assistant. 

Assistant at Bayern on multiple occasions and Dortmund among other german clubs. Former Chief Analyst at Bayern, former Chief Scout at Aston Villa

[egg]

  On 26/05/2022 at 14:12, DT said:

Could do a lot worse

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Indeed. He'd be a great addition to our coaching team. 

[egg]

  On 26/05/2022 at 14:49, Trader said:

Two actually.

I was just trying to point out the idiocy of goalkeepers coaching outfield players. They basically have no idea.

 

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What do you base that on? Keepers are the only players who watch the whole game. They get to monitor the movement of the opposition. They see what works at set pieces.  They organise their defences. Keepers can make great coaches.

[Sheaf Saint]

  On 26/05/2022 at 14:49, Trader said:

Two actually.

I was just trying to point out the idiocy of goalkeepers coaching outfield players. They basically have no idea.

 

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Nigel Adkins was a goalkeeper.