Cost of Living

[whelk]

32 minutes ago, egg said:

I cba with a debate as to why. We are. The discussion should be the way out of it. We can't borrow more. We can't spend much less. We can't tax much more, at least from the masses. 

They have just moved the debate and you are happy to swallow it. Literally The Express leading with only tax cuts can save the economy and within a couple of weeks a volte-face only tax rises will save the economy. And here we are at war with Eurasia or is it Eastasia?
Obvious there is no simple fix for Labour to uncover but there has been constant mismanagement of the economy and now the narrative is two year recession, living standards worse than 9 years ago. Where is the milk an honey promised from the hustings? I could accept it more if been drawn out consistently as longer term picture since Covid but this is a recent thing from nowhere as we cannot borrow at previous rates. 

 

 

 

[whelk]

24 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

At least we didn’t cancel the £50bn HS2 project to fill the £50bn hole in the countries finances. God knows how we’d live without that too! 

I don’t think I have met anyone who thinks HS2 is a good idea. I will always be able to Teams quicker than I can get to Manchester

[badgerx16]

4 minutes ago, whelk said:

........living standards worse than 9 years ago.......,

 

OBR reckons the cost of living could well be the worst since 1955, when modern recording began.

[egg]

9 minutes ago, whelk said:

They have just moved the debate and you are happy to swallow it. Literally The Express leading with only tax cuts can save the economy and within a couple of weeks a volte-face only tax rises will save the economy. And here we are at war with Eurasia or is it Eastasia?
Obvious there is no simple fix for Labour to uncover but there has been constant mismanagement of the economy and now the narrative is two year recession, living standards worse than 9 years ago. Where is the milk an honey promised from the hustings? I could accept it more if been drawn out consistently as longer term picture since Covid but this is a recent thing from nowhere as we cannot borrow at previous rates. 

 

 

 

I'm just saying a debate about why we're here is futile. The solution changes the mess we're in, not the debate about why we're here. Different outlooks on life methinks - I prefer looking forwards. 

[whelk]

3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

OBR reckons the cost of living could well be the worst since 1955, when modern recording began.

Biggest fall since then not that we are at same level

[whelk]

Just now, egg said:

I'm just saying a debate about why we're here is futile. The solution changes the mess we're in, not the debate about why we're here. Different outlooks on life methinks - I prefer looking forwards. 

Same as not processing information I guess. 

[egg]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

Same as not processing information I guess. 

Condescending prick. Tell me what a debate on a football forum will achieve. We're here. It's a mess. In life and business, I live in solutions. Dwelling on problems that I can't solve achieves fuck all. 

[farawaysaint]

I’m not sure what we are arguing about at this point but I am extremely happy/annoyed depending on which side you want me to be on 

[Turkish]

9% drop in house prices predicted, that’ll make some people happy

[egg]

5 minutes ago, Turkish said:

9% drop in house prices predicted, that’ll make some people happy

I suspect it'll be more. One time bomb is negative equity, and high reversionary interest rates, when people come to the end of their fixed rates. Very interesting times ahead. 

[Turkish]

Just now, egg said:

I suspect it'll be more. One time bomb is negative equity, and high reversionary interest rates, when people come to the end of their fixed rates. Very interesting times ahead. 

Our previous mortgage fixed rate was due to end in February but we moved in April, fixed for five years just before rates started to go up. Very lucky really. Certainly wouldn’t have moved if rates then were like they are now. Going to be a disaster for those with mortgages ending already mortgaged to their eyeballs. I always ignored what a lot of people said to buy the most expensive house you can afford, financial suicide. 

[egg]

Just now, Turkish said:

Our previous mortgage fixed rate was due to end in February but we moved in April, fixed for five years just before rates started to go up. Very lucky really. Certainly wouldn’t have moved if rates then were like they are now. Going to be a disaster for those with mortgages ending already mortgaged to their eyeballs. I always ignored what a lot of people said to buy the most expensive house you can afford, financial suicide. 

You got lucky. In the 90's we were on a variable rate when the rates went mental, then slipped into massive negative equity, and had to live off barely a tenner a week for food and life. We got out of it, but it wasn't fun. Repossessions will soar unfortunately. 

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, egg said:

You got lucky. In the 90's we were on a variable rate when the rates went mental, then slipped into massive negative equity, and had to live off barely a tenner a week for food and life. We got out of it, but it wasn't fun. Repossessions will soar unfortunately. 

Sadly our new neighbours are on variable, they’re already talking about having to sell up 😔

[egg]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Sadly our new neighbours are on variable, they’re already talking about having to sell up 😔

Sad to hear. There'll be many more casualties unfortunately. 

[whelk]

58 minutes ago, egg said:

Condescending prick. Tell me what a debate on a football forum will achieve. We're here. It's a mess. In life and business, I live in solutions. Dwelling on problems that I can't solve achieves fuck all. 

It’s discussion not solving anything.  Do you think we are solving Brexit or getting peace in Ukraine?

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, whelk said:

It’s discussion not solving anything.  Do you think we are solving Brexit or getting peace in Ukraine?

Surely the real benchmark is Has soggy convinced anyone to vote labour?

[Raging Bull]

Programmable CBDCs are just around the corner and will be seen by many as the answer/way out of this pickle. 

The truth is they’ll be the worst thing that could possibly happen. 

All they’re doing at the moment is shuffling the deckchairs on the titanic knowing this is eventually what’s going to happen. 

Very worrying times ahead. 

[saint1977]

I think Hunt did the best he could have done yesterday from the perspective of a higher rate taxpayer. I don’t like HS2 either but other than that, he’s provided a budget which is a J Cloth to clean up the nostalgic ideological vomit of the Tory right wing, members, Truss and Kwarteng from the summer. It wasn’t even good Thatcherism either, cutting taxes when it’s sustainable and remember she doubled VAT etc. Like the Labour left, MPs on the Tory right and the Mail are living in a fantasy world of Minford and Redwood which failed. The stark fact is that if we want to grow faster and bring down debt and higher earner taxes faster, the UK has to rejoin the Single Market. Hunt and Sunak within the constraints have acted in the national interest over party in my view. 

[badgerx16]

Hunt successfully kicked the "major spending cuts" can far enough down the road that they probably won't be seen until after the next GE.

[Weston Super Saint]

16 hours ago, egg said:

I'm just saying a debate about why we're here is futile. The solution changes the mess we're in, not the debate about why we're here. Different outlooks on life methinks - I prefer looking forwards. 

To be fair, I think the debate about 'how' we got here is credible in terms of understanding how we get out of the mess.

Many will blame Brexit because that's the lazy option that doesn't require any real thought, just hatred.  Some will overlook the long term impacts of covid and the collapse of the supply chain from the far East driving prices up as they assume that's all gone away now that covid is no longer in the news.  Others will focus on the current energy supply crisis, which is what has pushed us over the edge in recent months.

Obviously I don't have all the answers but controlling the energy price issues seems the most logical to lessen the impact.  The Government gave the OK for energy suppliers to increase the daily charge to every household to cover the cost of the firms that went bust (rightly so), but haven't noticed that the profits this has helped to generate has paid that debt back two or three times over already, so the simple answer would be to reduce the threshold on that charge - the Government wouldn't need to subsidise households and energy supplier's profits would drop back to a more normal level.  The Gov't could then focus on the impact of the energy price rises themselves to keep the money flowing in the economy, but look to have ignored this completely after April next year.  I suspect the recession is only going to get worse after that point as energy (along with food) is critical for every household.

[The Left Back]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

To be fair, I think the debate about 'how' we got here is credible in terms of understanding how we get out of the mess.

Many will blame Brexit because that's the lazy option that doesn't require any real thought, just hatred.  Some will overlook the long term impacts of covid and the collapse of the supply chain from the far East driving prices up as they assume that's all gone away now that covid is no longer in the news.  Others will focus on the current energy supply crisis, which is what has pushed us over the edge in recent months.

Obviously I don't have all the answers but controlling the energy price issues seems the most logical to lessen the impact.  The Government gave the OK for energy suppliers to increase the daily charge to every household to cover the cost of the firms that went bust (rightly so), but haven't noticed that the profits this has helped to generate has paid that debt back two or three times over already, so the simple answer would be to reduce the threshold on that charge - the Government wouldn't need to subsidise households and energy supplier's profits would drop back to a more normal level.  The Gov't could then focus on the impact of the energy price rises themselves to keep the money flowing in the economy, but look to have ignored this completely after April next year.  I suspect the recession is only going to get worse after that point as energy (along with food) is critical for every household.

I agree with your point about learning from the past to help us move forward and agree with the Covid stuff.  I don't fully understand your energy costs policy suggestion.  My view about that is the support should be much more targeted.  It's bonkers that I got £60 of my last fuel bill.  We should have the wherewithal to target government support for those who need it.  

Re Brexit, it's not about hatred and blame (at least not for me).  As I understand it the two Brexit causes for the current crises are:

1.  We can't maximise our growth potential without more people around to fill vacancies, start earning, paying tax and spending.  Turning off the supply of labour is going to flatten any growth curve

2.  We voluntarily made it harder to trade with our biggest partners.  It's the first time in history a country has voluntary imposed sanctions on itself and is no doubt contributing to our situation.

So to your point of learning from the past, we need to find a way of fixing both these issues.

 

Edited 18 November, 2022 by The Left Back

[egg]

5 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

To be fair, I think the debate about 'how' we got here is credible in terms of understanding how we get out of the mess.

Many will blame Brexit because that's the lazy option that doesn't require any real thought, just hatred.  Some will overlook the long term impacts of covid and the collapse of the supply chain from the far East driving prices up as they assume that's all gone away now that covid is no longer in the news.  Others will focus on the current energy supply crisis, which is what has pushed us over the edge in recent months.

Obviously I don't have all the answers but controlling the energy price issues seems the most logical to lessen the impact.  The Government gave the OK for energy suppliers to increase the daily charge to every household to cover the cost of the firms that went bust (rightly so), but haven't noticed that the profits this has helped to generate has paid that debt back two or three times over already, so the simple answer would be to reduce the threshold on that charge - the Government wouldn't need to subsidise households and energy supplier's profits would drop back to a more normal level.  The Gov't could then focus on the impact of the energy price rises themselves to keep the money flowing in the economy, but look to have ignored this completely after April next year.  I suspect the recession is only going to get worse after that point as energy (along with food) is critical for every household.

No post mortem has ever resurrected a corpse Weston.

We're here for a variety of reasons. Brexit, covid and the associated waste/fraud/dodgy contracts, Ukraine/fuel cost fall out, quantitative easing, SD breaks driving up house prices, over borrowing, a weak pound leading to imported inflation, and some other stuff.

Personally I'm not getting into a discussion as a) some people fixate on one of the elements (eg brexit), b) quite a few like a whinge about the situation but offer no view on what they think should be done, and c) ultimately, what's happened has happened and isn't reversible by the current government. 

Sure, lessons can (theoretically) be learnt to reduce the chances of future fuck ups, but Hunt did about all he could yesterday bar perhaps a wealth tax, a hit on the likes of Amazon, and a bigger levy on the fuel companies. 

[buctootim]

15 minutes ago, egg said:

No post mortem has ever resurrected a corpse 

Friday afternoon is the perfect time to be annoyingly pedantic 

 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autopsy-idUSN149975820070917

[The Left Back]

44 minutes ago, egg said:

No post mortem has ever resurrected a corpse Weston.

We're here for a variety of reasons. Brexit, covid and the associated waste/fraud/dodgy contracts, Ukraine/fuel cost fall out, quantitative easing, SD breaks driving up house prices, over borrowing, a weak pound leading to imported inflation, and some other stuff.

Personally I'm not getting into a discussion as a) some people fixate on one of the elements (eg brexit), b) quite a few like a whinge about the situation but offer no view on what they think should be done, and c) ultimately, what's happened has happened and isn't reversible by the current government. 

Sure, lessons can (theoretically) be learnt to reduce the chances of future fuck ups, but Hunt did about all he could yesterday bar perhaps a wealth tax, a hit on the likes of Amazon, and a bigger levy on the fuel companies. 

Surely one of the two main objectives of a post mortem is to learn lessons that might lead to reduction of future deaths? Tragic example this week being the toddler whose death was caused by mould.  Otherwise why bother doing one? (unless there is suspicion a crime has been committed - the other objective). 

As for the job Hunt did yesterday being all he could do; I agree it was a politically well played hand with the cards he was dealt.  But the country needs radical solutions and conviction-based leadership.  Not this flip-flopping, rudderless nonsense we have spent the whole of 2022 being subjected to. 

[egg]

6 minutes ago, The Left Back said:

As for the job Hunt did yesterday being all he could do; I agree it was a politically well played hand with the cards he was dealt.  But the country needs radical solutions and conviction-based leadership.  Not this flip-flopping, rudderless nonsense we have spent the whole of 2022 being subjected to. 

What, in terms of actual policy/action, do you say should be done?  It's too easy to say we need more, but that's just noise. 

[The Left Back]

23 hours ago, egg said:

What, in terms of actual policy/action, do you say should be done?  It's too easy to say we need more, but that's just noise. 

I’m no expert on governmental policy, I simply yearn for a political leadership with vision, conviction and an ability to make big things happen. Thatcher had it, Blair/Brown had it. I’ve not seen it since. (Don’t get me wrong, I hated what Thatcher stood for, but at least I knew what it was). We’ve been stuck in a fog of pathetic, rudderless Tory leadership for 12 years now.

I realise this is bigger than the cost of living title of this thread. On the specifics I’d have a more aggressive approach to windfall, far more targeted energy cost support so that those in need get most, above inflation pay rises to key public sector workers and a task force to look at food distribution to reduce waste and ensure the 1 in 4 children living below the poverty get enough warm healthy food this winter. 

[Turkish]

4 hours ago, The Left Back said:

I’m no expert on governmental policy, I simply yearn for a political leadership with vision, conviction and an ability to make big things happen. Thatcher had it, Blair/Brown had it. I’ve not seen it since. (Don’t get me wrong, I hated what Thatcher stood for, but at least I knew what it was). We’ve been stuck in a fog of pathetic, rudderless Tory leadership for 12 years now.

I realise this is bigger than the cost of living title of this thread. On the specifics I’d have a more aggressive approach to windfall, far more targeted energy cost support so that those in need get most, above inflation pay rises to key public sector workers and a task force to look at food distribution to reduce waste and ensure the 1 in 4 children living below the poverty get enough warm healthy food this winter. 

I kind of think this is Eggs point. We’ve had thread after thread of everyone moaning about how terrible everything is with no answers themselves despite the fact this forum is full of pandemic experts, war experts, political experts and has the answers to end racism no one actually knows what should be done differently, yet it always circles back to the same point, fact that everyone ends up slagging off the government. Yes we get it, they’re fucking useless, a bunch of corrupt cretins that’s it beyond belief are running one of the greatest countries on earth. But we are where we are and endless discussions about coming back to the same point ain’t going to change that. It’s dull as fuck. 

Edited 19 November, 2022 by Turkish

[aintforever]

47 minutes ago, Turkish said:

 this forum is full of pandemic experts, war experts, political experts and has the answers to end racism 

Everyone must seem like an expert when you are as thick as you.

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, aintforever said:

Everyone must seem like an expert when you are as thick as you.

🤣🤣🤣 I genuinely laughed out loud at that. Coming from someone that repeatedly prove themselves to be the forum idiot.

[whelk]

10 hours ago, Turkish said:

I kind of think this is Eggs point. We’ve had thread after thread of everyone moaning about how terrible everything is with no answers themselves despite the fact this forum is full of pandemic experts, war experts, political experts and has the answers to end racism no one actually knows what should be done differently, yet it always circles back to the same point, fact that everyone ends up slagging off the government. Yes we get it, they’re fucking useless, a bunch of corrupt cretins that’s it beyond belief are running one of the greatest countries on earth. But we are where we are and endless discussions about coming back to the same point ain’t going to change that. It’s dull as fuck. 

We are where we are’ due to elected politicians making choices. You seem to partake in these ‘dull as fuck’ exchanges.  

[Turkish]

28 minutes ago, whelk said:

We are where we are’ due to elected politicians making choices. You seem to partake in these ‘dull as fuck’ exchanges.  

So we’re back to the same point about how shit the government is then. 🙄

[egg]

So 12 pages later we're at the point where people are still Saying it's shit, but have nothing to contribute on the way forward. Being kind to the posters who like a whinge, that's perhaps because we're fucked and there's no easy way out if the mess we're in. 

Edited 20 November, 2022 by egg

[whelk]

24 minutes ago, egg said:

So 12 pages later we're at the point where people are still Saying it's shit, but have nothing to contribute on the way forward. Being kind to the posters who like a whinge, that's perhaps because we're fucked and there's no easy way out if the mess we're in. 

Why do you keep posting the same inane shit?

[Turkish]

31 minutes ago, egg said:

So 12 pages later we're at the point where people are still Saying it's shit, but have nothing to contribute on the way forward. Being kind to the posters who like a whinge, that's perhaps because we're fucked and there's no easy way out if the mess we're in. 

Oh I don’t know we’ve learnt quite a bit on this thread. The highlights for me being There is someone out there who will pay £5 for a loaf of bread, Whelk has a credit rating of 988, the pubs in Romney Marsh are now full of people from Ashford and Soggy is trying to force a general election from here 

Edited 20 November, 2022 by Turkish

[whelk]

29 minutes ago, Turkish said:

So we’re back to the same point about how shit the government is then. 🙄

Mate there is no hope. They are all the same. Take joy from the snippets you can. Don’t worry about the highest all time tax burden and shit services funded by these huge taxes

[egg]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

Why do you keep posting the same inane shit?

Fuck me, Mr Irony has woken up. Your only opinion seems to be that you're a fucking genius and that everyone else is a "thick cunt". If there was an award for the poster who makes the most pointless contributions, you'd be on the podium every time. 

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, whelk said:

Mate there is no hope. They are all the same. Take joy from the snippets you can. Don’t worry about the highest all time tax burden and shit services funded by these huge taxes

I was making a cup of tea earlier and whilst looking for something else discovered an unopened packet of hob nobs hidden behind the box of tea bags (Yorkshire tea of course) it’s these small moments of sheer joy that keep me going these days. 

[Tamesaint]

12 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I was making a cup of tea earlier and whilst looking for something else discovered an unopened packet of hob nobs hidden behind the box of tea bags (Yorkshire tea of course) it’s these small moments of sheer joy that keep me going these days. 

What!! You mean to say that someone in your house bought hobnobs and lost track of where they went!! That's criminal. 😁

[whelk]

16 minutes ago, egg said:

Fuck me, Mr Irony has woken up. Your only opinion seems to be that you're a fucking genius and that everyone else is a "thick cunt". If there was an award for the poster who makes the most pointless contributions, you'd be on the podium every time. 

Why are you even posting? What are you changing or offering?

[whelk]

26 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Oh I don’t know we’ve learnt quite a bit on this thread. The highlights for me being There is someone out there who will pay £5 for a loaf of bread, Whelk has a credit rating of 988, the pubs in Romney Marsh are now full of people from Ashford and Soggy is trying to force a general election from here 

Thankfully I don’t really have to think about credit. Only debt I need to clear is the kids student loans. Other than that the savings and investments keep rising - benefits of being a well paid genius

[egg]

4 minutes ago, whelk said:

Why are you even posting? What are you changing or offering?

Case in point. Absolutely pointless. Try having an opinion on issues, not people.

[whelk]

Just now, egg said:

Case in point. Absolutely pointless. Try having an opinion on issues, not people.

TBH I don’t have opinion on you at all. There are clearly cliques here but I will agree with you on many things I’m sure but you don’t register as someone to be pigeon holed. 

[Turkish]

17 minutes ago, whelk said:

Thankfully I don’t really have to think about credit. Only debt I need to clear is the kids student loans. Other than that the savings and investments keep rising - benefits of being a well paid genius

You should be an inspiration to us all, one of the good news stories in a world of misery. 👏👏

[farawaysaint]

Which saintsweb clique am I in? I need to know who to eat my lunch with. 

[egg]

6 minutes ago, Turkish said:

You should be an inspiration to us all, one of the good news stories in a world of misery. 👏👏

I'm hoping that he gets that credit rating to 999, it will give me hope going into 2023. In other news, we've got a pack of chocolate hob nobs in the cupboard, but I'm not one to boast. 

[whelk]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

I'm hoping that he gets that credit rating to 999, it will give me hope going into 2023. In other news, we've got a pack of chocolate hob nobs in the cupboard, but I'm not one to boast. 

With that and you thinking about a podium I am making quite an impression on you. Quite sweet

[whelk]

14 minutes ago, Turkish said:

You should be an inspiration to us all, one of the good news stories in a world of misery. 👏👏

Timing mate. When the wealthiest didn’t want all the property. Savvy enough to be aware that society needs to work for all not just the gifted

[buctootim]

23 hours ago, Turkish said:

I was making a cup of tea earlier and whilst looking for something else discovered an unopened packet of hob nobs hidden behind the box of tea bags (Yorkshire tea of course) 

That reminds me of a big moment in my own life. I always buy Yorkshire tea. When I experimented with their special hard water blend it was nowhere near as good as the orginal depsite me living in a chalky hard water area.  

[Turkish]

How Much is fuel in Southampton at the moment? Where I live in North Yorkshire petrol seems to be about £1.50-£1.60 a litre, diesels £1.74-£1.80.

i was over In Cheshire New Years day and there it was £1.40 or £1.61 for diesel. A friend of mine is from Oban and said it was the same there when he went back over Christmas 

Edited 3 January, 2023 by Turkish

[The Left Back]

Diesel £1.71 in Tesco Milbrook, £1.75/6 most places.