Cost of Living

[John B]

12 hours ago, saint1977 said:

This is quite interesting so I’ll add a further response.

If you are talking about pure macroeconomic policy and orthodoxy then I’d agree that we’ve had a stable period broadly through Clarke/Brown/Darling/Osborne/Hammond/Sunak. It’s the reason the country was able to ride out the credit crunch as debt was only 46% of GDP and businesses could be supported through the pandemic. 

We probably have a different view of austerity 2010-15. It didn’t touch me professionally in a market environment but when I was doing community work outside of paid employment it was very stark. Huge impacts on literacy, community facilities and paved the way to food banks. Cameron was onto something with Big Society but too far and too fast to replace state investment with cohesion and it just felt like cuts. 

The real professional hit has been on the professional aspects around moving people and goods between the UK and the EU. We’ve gone from being technical specialists at work to HR managers because of the sheer volumes of changes we’ve had to adapt to over a short time. I get that people wanted more control over this stuff but with the turnover of Home Office and Business Ministers it is constantly changing and since Patel bollocksed the Home Office all of the people there who knew what they were doing have left in droves. Nor has there been the investment in skills to grow our own nor the patience when there is investment to see if it works over a 3-5 year period at least. Now the markets are nervous about this week and so am I - huge decisions to make professionally and personally that will effect what my retirement looks like. The last five-seven years have been unstable but this is something else. 

Yeah, there is a history of Tories talking and not walking right wing eg Heath and Selsdon Man, Cameron with the EU, Boris’s ‘Save Big Dog’ but actually I prefer periods of orthodox policy to have some chance of planning. There’s always events that you can’t foresee which disrupt things but this last week is a huge own goal, unnecessary and unforced to me. Probably where we are different again. 

I grew up in the 1980s and understood that before my time the IMF having to sort out Labour’s economic approach in 1976 was one of the main reasons along with the Winter of Discontent as to why not to vote Labour and it probably explains why the LDs are more comfortable. Now it’s happened in 2022 and intellectuals like Minford (studied his work at Uni) and Redwood who have spent their entire careers espousing free market theories and saying listen to the market are now saying ignore it because Truss gave them a job. George Osborne is right, they are hypocrites. 

Anyway, listening to different perspectives is something we’ve lost the habit of a bit so it’s been interesting. 

Most of the problems in the 1970s were due to the Barber Boom which Labour inherited from Ted Heath's Govt and poor productivity that is why we joined the EC

 

Leaving the EU where we had such a good deal is economic recklessness and this recklessness continues today where by 1triilion pounds of pension money could have disappeared yesterday without intervention of the BOE

 

I realise why lots of people wanted to leave the EU but it really was just an econmic community run by intelligent realistic and mostly trustworthy people compared with spivs and liars who run our country.

 

To say the current turmoil with the economy is nothing to do with Truss's budget is completely wrong and verges on the criminial

[Turkish]

19 hours ago, whelk said:

Has anyone heard from Truss? Is she still doing her tour with Charlie?

Shes speaking this morning, she aint afraid to make tough decisions! 

[egg]

Reading what Truss has said this morning tells me that she's more idiotic than I appreciated. 

She said "This is about making sure that people are going into the winter not worried about ultra high fuel bills" and that the government's action on high energy bills will reduce inflation by 5% this winter.

So this was apparently all about reducing inflation, and primarily fuel inflation. She rather overlooks that those actions has meant that the pound has dropped bringing with it more inflation, and higher fuel bills. Absolutely mental/deluded.

I've not yet read what she's said about the BoE having to spend £65b to help our economy row backwards from an attempt to throw away £45b, but I'm intrigued to know what spin she'll put on that to placate the markets.

is there any previous example where a central Bank has had to inject more money to attempt to correct/control a government decision than the initial decision was going to cost? I can't think of anything like it having happened.

Edited 29 September, 2022 by egg

[Turkish]

12 minutes ago, egg said:

Reading what Truss has said this morning tells me that she's more idiotic than I appreciated. 

She said "This is about making sure that people are going into the winter not worried about ultra high fuel bills" and that the government's action on high energy bills will reduce inflation by 5% this winter.

So this was apparently all about reducing inflation, and primarily fuel inflation. She rather overlooks that those actions has meant that the pound has dropped bringing with it more inflation, and higher fuel bills. Absolutely mental/deluded.

I've not yet read what she's said about the BoE having to spend £65b to help our economy row backwards from an attempt to throw away £45b, but I'm intrigued to know what spin she'll put on that to placate the markets.

is there any previous example where a central Bank has had to inject more money to attempt to correct/control a government decision than the initial decision was going to cost? I can't think of anything like it having happened.

They just had Chris Philip on GMTV. An absolute buffoon who just avoid any questions and banged on for 10 minutes talking very, very quickly about fuel bills. He appears to be An absolute moron.

on another note I always find Suzanna and her co-presenters dismissive sarcasm after another car crash Tory interview highly amusing. Suzanna and I could be very happy together in another life.  

Edited 29 September, 2022 by Turkish

[skintsaint]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

An absolute Buffon

Sign him up?

[Turkish]

Just now, skintsaint said:

Sign him up?

Too old no resale value

[egg]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

They just had Chris Philip on GMTV. An absolute Buffon who just avoid any questions and banged on for 10 minutes talking very, very quickly about fuel bills. He appears to be An absolute moron.

The thing is, the fuel bills help pre dated Friday's car crash. That was apparently all about growth and boosting the economy. Now it fucked the economy and increased inflation, it's become about fuel. It's an absolute mess that our economy won't recover from, and came bloody close to killing pension funds. She and Kwarteng are so far out of their depth .

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, egg said:

The thing is, the fuel bills help pre dated Friday's car crash. That was apparently all about growth and boosting the economy. Now it fucked the economy and increased inflation, it's become about fuel. It's an absolute mess that our economy won't recover from, and came bloody close to killing pension funds. She and Kwarteng are so far out of their depth .

It's so bad the conspiracy theorists will be saying it's all deliberate. 

[rallyboy]

This morning she's been trying out some new experimental material at small regional gigs, it's been like Kate Bush, but madder.

Awkward silences, scripted nonsense, baffling explanations, plain made-up shit, and more pauses.

The last time we saw this many car crashes in such a small space of time was when World of Sport brought us a demolition derby double bill from Ipswich.

We're gonna need more popcorn.

[Turkish]

23 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

This morning she's been trying out some new experimental material at small regional gigs, it's been like Kate Bush, but madder.

Awkward silences, scripted nonsense, baffling explanations, plain made-up shit, and more pauses.

The last time we saw this many car crashes in such a small space of time was when World of Sport brought us a demolition derby double bill from Ipswich.

We're gonna need more popcorn.

What's the record for the shortest term of any permanent prime minister?

[egg]

10 minutes ago, Turkish said:

What's the record for the shortest term of any permanent prime minister?

I don't think she'll go. Too many mates on the board, and the calls for a general election will be too strong if she goes. The MP's and party know that'd be an election that the tories could not win.

[Turkish]

11 minutes ago, egg said:

I don't think she'll go. Too many mates on the board, and the calls for a general election will be too strong if she goes. The MP's and party know that'd be an election that the tories could not win.

This the problem it’s all about self preservation with all of them. Who was the last PM to actually do stuff for the good of the country rather than feathering their own nest? I’d say the closest we’ve got in my lifetime is Major and Brown. 

[John B]

If I wanted to get a mortgage loan I would have to show how I was going to pay it back they would not give me the money without that proof.

So how does Truss expect to get billions of money with showing how it is going to be paid back?

[whelk]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

It's so bad the conspiracy theorists will be saying it's all deliberate. 

Hey that US Dollar, the Euro and the pound will all be at parity soon so just one step from a uniform global currency with Bill Gates picture on the notes.

[whelk]

1 hour ago, egg said:

I don't think she'll go. Too many mates on the board, and the calls for a general election will be too strong if she goes. The MP's and party know that'd be an election that the tories could not win.

She only had 30-35-% or so of the Tory MP votes. All the Sunak backers are despairing. Although they know cannot kick her out without going for general election which will decimate them as it stands.

[whelk]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

This the problem it’s all about self preservation with all of them. Who was the last PM to actually do stuff for the good of the country rather than feathering their own nest? I’d say the closest we’ve got in my lifetime is Major and Brown. 

Brown is an absolute colossus compared to what has come later

[Whitey Grandad]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

Brown is an absolute colossus compared to what has come later

Indeed he is but at the time I thought he was the worst Prime Minister that I had ever experienced.

[egg]

11 minutes ago, whelk said:

Brown is an absolute colossus compared to what has come later

Yep. He at least a modicum of integrity and gravitas. Liz has neither. Hearing her speak this morning was pitiful - you could hear the cogs going around. 

[egg]

13 minutes ago, whelk said:

She only had 30-35-% or so of the Tory MP votes. All the Sunak backers are despairing. Although they know cannot kick her out without going for general election which will decimate them as it stands.

Yep. The tory faithful were turkeys voting for Christmas, and the MP's would be too if the did the decent thing. 

[Turkish]

18 minutes ago, whelk said:

Hey that US Dollar, the Euro and the pound will all be at parity soon so just one step from a uniform global currency with Bill Gates picture on the notes.

All part of the plan it world seem

[edprice1984]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

What's the record for the shortest term of any permanent prime minister?

George Canning - 119 days (he died in office).

The utter stupidity of the local news media trawl from a PR perspective is genuinely astounding. Firstly most if not all of these morning presenters are experienced journalists with basically the prime slot (other than 4-6pm) for their area. Hence why Truss was on there. This is a great way to make a name for themselves, they are going to be ridiculously well prepared and will likely ask questions not anticipated by the No.10 media /PR team. 

Truss on the other hand, won't have a clue who anyone is, won't have anywhere near enough time to prepare and with the ability of the presenters to listen in to other interviews they can tailor questions to make the maximum impact.

It's not just Truss and Kwarteng who are out of their depth, the entire No.10 machinery and team are too.

[CB Fry]

Doing local media was madness. She'd have been better off doing 10 mins on GMTV or the Today programme rather than six consecutive interviews with good journalists with nothing to lose  and with more local knowledge than she will have.

And her excuse "it's all Russia" was batshit insane. It's like absolutely no prep, no workshopping of answers happened at all. Plus she genuinely hasn't worked out that people look at all their bills. A few quid on income tax helps no one if your mortgage goes from 800 quid to 1000. 

Honestly they're coming across like a team on The Apprentice struggling through week 2. Plus she is a dreadful communicator trying to doing the Boris blustering/brazen it out act but not realising that what Boris did took some genuine, unique talent. He's a lying shit but he was pretty good at it.

 

 

[John B]

'Truss criticised for wrongly saying no household will pay more than £2,500 under energy price guarantee'

This is so dangerous, my pensioner friend who is usually is really on the balll with financial matters, etc, stated this as fact, that you can basically use as much as you like and will pay no more than 2500(still a huge amount), but its is of course wrong.

[whelk]

31 minutes ago, John B said:

'Truss criticised for wrongly saying no household will pay more than £2,500 under energy price guarantee'

This is so dangerous, my pensioner friend who is usually is really on the balll with financial matters, etc, stated this as fact, that you can basically use as much as you like and will pay no more than 2500(still a huge amount), but its is of course wrong.

Exactly she is 100% idiot. If had charisma and wasn’t always on top of detail could be more forgiven but she has neither. Incredible how she has somehow become PM

[whelk]

32 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Doing local media was madness. She'd have been better off doing 10 mins on GMTV or the Today programme rather than six consecutive interviews with good journalists with nothing to lose  and with more local knowledge than she will have.

And her excuse "it's all Russia" was batshit insane. It's like absolutely no prep, no workshopping of answers happened at all. Plus she genuinely hasn't worked out that people look at all their bills. A few quid on income tax helps no one if your mortgage goes from 800 quid to 1000. 

Honestly they're coming across like a team on The Apprentice struggling through week 2. Plus she is a dreadful communicator trying to doing the Boris blustering/brazen it out act but not realising that what Boris did took some genuine, unique talent. He's a lying shit but he was pretty good at it.

 

 

There’s an Alistair Campbell apprentice style show coming about appointing a PM out of Joe public. Truss would probably only last a couple of episodes 

[Winnersaint]

I already pay £300 a month. 

[badgerx16]

9 minutes ago, Winnersaint said:

I already pay £300 a month. 

What has been capped is the unit price you can be charged, such that the "typical" domestic usage should not exceed £2500. If you use more than the 'average', you might well pay more than £2500.

 

[Winnersaint]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

What has been capped is the unit price you can be charged, such that the "typical" domestic usage should not exceed £2500. If you use more than the 'average', you might well pay more than £2500.

 

Indeed, I was about to edit my post to make that point, but I've just had a delivery so you beat me to it. Standing charge capped, unit price risen by 27%. Truss been spouting bollocks about it on her local radio clusterfuck this morning.

[badgerx16]

Just now, Winnersaint said:

Indeed, I was about to edit my post to make that point, but I've just had a delivery so you beat me to it. Standing charge capped, unit price risen by 27%. Truss been spouting bollocks about it on her local radio clusterfuck this morning.

You will, however, get some money back from the support scheme: we have been notified that our DD is reducing by £67 per month, which will bring it back under £100pm, ( electric only, backed up by our store of fuel for the log burner ).

[whelk]

There will no doubt be some poor pensioner thinking they can have heating on 24/7 as won’t pay more than £2500 as the PM told them

[badgerx16]

4 minutes ago, whelk said:

There will no doubt be some poor pensioner thinking they can have heating on 24/7 as won’t pay more than £2500 as the PM told them

This is the PM whose "fair" tax cuts mean she and the chancellor are over £5000 better off whilst people on the average wage will get around £300, and those on minimum wage get a handful of loose change.

[Winnersaint]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

You will, however, get some money back from the support scheme: we have been notified that our DD is reducing by £67 per month, which will bring it back under £100pm, ( electric only, backed up by our store of fuel for the log burner ).

I'm certainly using less than we were last year especially as I'm on my own now. House had to be kept warm for my wife during her illness. Shame I can't harness my turbo trainer in the garage to help, but on second thought 180W for an hour isn't go very far!

[Fan The Flames]

There's a now a mortgage rate rise bomb, that's starting to fizzle, it's going to explode soon. On top of everything else it's going to fuck a lot of people up.

And the cunt wants to get rid of the state pension.

Edited 30 September, 2022 by Fan The Flames

[John B]

22 hours ago, Turkish said:

This the problem it’s all about self preservation with all of them. Who was the last PM to actually do stuff for the good of the country rather than feathering their own nest? I’d say the closest we’ve got in my lifetime is Major and Brown. 

In my lifetime we have had five Labour Prime Ministers Atlee Wilson Calaghan Blair and Brown

I am happy in what they achieved

The NHS.

Social security.

The welfare state.

Council housing.

Modern higher education.

The Open University.

Decriminalising homosexuality.

Outlawing racial discrimination.

Introducing equal pay.

The National Minimum Wage.

Sure Start.

The Good Friday Agreement.

Civil Partnerships.

The Equality Act.

The Human Rights Act.

The world’s first Climate Change Act.

[badgerx16]

According to The Times;

"The new prime minister is drawing up plans to raise benefits, such as universal credit, in line with average earnings instead of inflation.

Based on September's figures - which are usually used to dictate changes the following April - benefits would rise by 5.5%. That is likely to be much less than inflation which hit a 40-year high of 9.9% in August. This would save the government £5bn. In contrast, its decision to lower the top tax rate of 45% for people earning over £150,000 a year will cost £2bn, according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies."

[badgerx16]

Truss is the first Tory leader since IDS to be voted in by the membership against the wishes of a majority of sitting Conservative MPs.

[aintforever]

I still find it mental that 170,000 people can spend two months deliberating and come to the conclusion that Liz Truss would be a better PM than Rishi Sunak. We all know who to thank when our mortgage comes up for renewal and the monthly payment has jumped £500.

Bunch of swivel-eyed fuck-wits.

[trousers]

6 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I still find it mental that 170,000 people can spend two months deliberating and come to the conclusion that Liz Truss would be a better PM than Rishi Sunak. We all know who to thank when our mortgage comes up for renewal and the monthly payment has jumped £500.

I agree with the bit in bold, but if you're going to have a pop at the Tories for mortgage interest rates going up, isn't it fair/logical to thank the Tories for keeping them way below the historical average for the last 12 years...? I wonder how much money mortgage holders have saved over that period due to having to pay significantly less than average.... #devilsadvocate

Edited 30 September, 2022 by trousers

[trousers]

2 hours ago, John B said:

In my lifetime we have had five Labour Prime Ministers Atlee Wilson Calaghan Blair and Brown

I am happy in what they achieved

The NHS.

Social security.

The welfare state.

Council housing.

Modern higher education.

The Open University.

Decriminalising homosexuality.

Outlawing racial discrimination.

Introducing equal pay.

The National Minimum Wage.

Sure Start.

The Good Friday Agreement.

Civil Partnerships.

The Equality Act.

The Human Rights Act.

The world’s first Climate Change Act.

Don't forget foodbanks were introduced under a labour goverment too...

And these guys don't seem too happy with Blair and Brown's record... https://socialistworker.co.uk/features/things-only-got-bitter-25-years-on-from-the-new-labour-government/ 

Edited 30 September, 2022 by trousers

[Turkish]

24 minutes ago, trousers said:

I agree with the bit in bold, but if you're going to have a pop at the Tories for mortgage interest rates going up, isn't it fair/logical to thank the Tories for keeping them way below the historical average for the last 12 years...? I wonder how much money mortgage holders have saved over that period due to having to pay significantly less than average.... #devilsadvocate

Indeed. Mortgages under Tony Blairs labour were 8% in the year 2000. The conservatives have done a magnificent job keeping mortgage rates low under their stewardship.  No that serial whingers like Soggy and aintclever will ever admit it

Edited 30 September, 2022 by Turkish

[whelk]

12 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Indeed. Mortgages under Tony Blairs labour were 8% in the year 2000. The conservatives have done a magnificent job keeping mortgage rates low under their stewardship.  No that serial whingers like Soggy and aintclever will ever admit it

It is naive If you think interest rates are dictated by who is in power. Some policies may influence but growth and slowdown are largely cyclical.
 

Low interest rates have been in place since the 2008 global crash. Although of course Tories love to try and spin the crash on Labour rule. Nothing of the sort as anyone with any basic knowledge would understand it was financial gambling by the industry. And TBF I don’t think pinning the recent rises on Tories is totally fair. Although clearly market analysts have no confidence in the current shower there isn’t a policy that will keep base rate at 1% or similar since Covid and huge amounts of money injected into supply.

[buctootim]

35 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Indeed. Mortgages under Tony Blairs labour were 8% in the year 2000. The conservatives have done a magnificent job keeping mortgage rates low under their stewardship.  No that serial whingers like Soggy and aintclever will ever admit it

Thats nonsense. The financial collapse was caused by reckless behaviour by banks, hedge funds and insurance companies - essentially insufficiently regulated market capitalism. The trigger for the financial collapse was the sub prime mortgage fiasco but the underlying root cause was derivatives - essentially massive leveraged casino betting on whether a product would get more or less valuable backed by insurance in case it all went wrong. When it did it just meant the insurance companies were brought down as well as the banks. If you want someone to blame it was Thatcher, Lawson Reagan and Greenspan - all conservatives.      

Edited 30 September, 2022 by buctootim

[Turkish]

.Wow, i thought aintclever would the first to nibble. 

[buctootim]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

.Wow, i thought aintclever would the first to nibble. 

Do people still do that? pretendi they were trolling when their dumb posts gets called out ?  

[Turkish]

9 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Do people still do that? pretendi they were trolling when their dumb posts gets called out ?  

Do people still do that? Pretend they thought a post was serious because didn't pick up on the blatant sarcasm in a post after they've gone off on one responding to it?

Edited 30 September, 2022 by Turkish

[saint1977]

8 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Do people still do that? Pretend they thought a post was serious because didn't pick up on the blatant sarcasm in a post after they've gone off on one responding to it?

It’s Friday so I gave you a laughing emoji instead 😉

[Lord Duckhunter]

Mortgage rates have been too low for too long. Anyone who hadn't factored in higher rates coming along the track eventually ,is a fuckwit who probably shouldn’t have been given one in the first place. 
 

 

[buctootim]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Mortgage rates have been too low for too long. Anyone who hadn't factored in higher rates coming along the track eventually ,is a fuckwit who probably shouldn’t have been given one in the first place. 
 

 

It was all about keeping house prices high so old income poor Tory voters felt rich. Put the interest rates up their house value falls and they might vote Labour!  

[Crab Lungs]

On 30/09/2022 at 11:40, aintforever said:

I still find it mental that 170,000 people can spend two months deliberating and come to the conclusion that Liz Truss would be a better PM than Rishi Sunak. We all know who to thank when our mortgage comes up for renewal and the monthly payment has jumped £500.

Bunch of swivel-eyed fuck-wits.

I’m up shit creek without a paddle because of this. I actually don’t know what to do to be honest.

My mortgage is up in December and I’m in the process of purchasing the entirety of the property (shared ownership) so couldn’t agree a mortgage in principle earlier as there’s a few hoops to jump through first.

In the space of around a month in a half, my like for like fixed rate has gone up £300 if I want to renew. I can only afford a tracker, at a push, and will be white knuckling on the hope it doesn’t go up to something unmanageable.

I enquired about some sort help from the government, to which I was delighted to discover I am eligible for nothing, yet people on a far higher income than me (like, 20k more) can do so as they have a child.

I’ve cut everything. TV, income protection insurance, mobile, food the lot. I go round my parents in the evening to eat. I’m working to pay my bills. Zero spending money for myself, nothing. I owe nothing other than my mortgage and my car. I’ve not frivolously spent money on gumph or tatt. I haven’t had the heating on since March this year. I have a duvet downstairs if I want warmth.

And now with these raises, I’ll be running at a deficit. Do I have to work 70-80 hours a week just to exist? I’ll do what I have to do but this is the first time in my life I’ve been genuinely affected by this kind of thing and it really, really hurts and grates on me.

[badgerx16]

18 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said:

........

And now with these raises, I’ll be running at a deficit. Do I have to work 70-80 hours a week just to exist? I’ll do what I have to do but this is the first time in my life I’ve been genuinely affected by this kind of thing and it really, really hurts and grates on me.

According to some Government ministers, yes, that has been their advice. It is yet another indication of how out of touch with reality they are, or possibly the level of contempt they hold towards most of us.