Where has it gone wrong?

[ally_uk]

The recent run of defeats has been quite eye opening. I don't understand what could of been the catalyst for such a shift in performances?

Maybe when Ralph came out and said he was retiring. Could the new owners already have somebody in the background ready to come in? 

Hence why players currently are have stopping putting in such committed displays because they are waiting for the new regime.

Who knows food for thought 

What I do know is the whole coaching setup needs developing.

[Suhari]

Suggestions of something of a clear out of first team players: maybe a few of them are not only on the beach, but mentally out of the club.

[Nemi]

Maybe Brentford 4-1 aside, we haven’t actually had a convincing win all season. We’ve benefited from a good run of form in winter which has probably saved us but that was the anomaly - the quality hasn’t been there all season.

I don’t think it’s a case of players not trying or being on the beach, we just don’t have the quality, our tactics have gone stale and overall a refresh of the players and manager will be our only way of getting out of this mess.

 For me, we can’t just simply change one or two players or just change the manager and expect things to change. We need a complete restructure of the squad and coaching staff from top to bottom.

Edited 8 May, 2022 by Nemi

[The Curse of St Mary's]

Ralph has some serious tactical flaws but the players have let him down massively. Even now Ralph is taking the brunt of it and trying to shield the team from outside criticism despite players clearly downing tools. They are not responding to him so effectively he has lost the dressing room. I'm sure they are not buying into his tactics but there is also more to it than just that imo. This bunch of players have no mental toughness and give up at first sign of adversity. Pretty shocking state of affairs all round. New owners need to get a grip and sort the mess out.

[ally_uk]

Yeah I agree we need a few experienced heads in the team Especially for the spine.

The type of players that have a bit of grit and steel and don't fold like deckchairs in a rainstorm once the pressure is on...  I concur our mentality is weak.

What is the actual deal with our coaching setup? All I can see is we have a few " Jobs for the boys " types.....  Why haven't we addressed this and adjust got in some experienced coaching heads? 

Some of the decisions Ralph is making are baffling. Take the game yesterday our midfield was being overrun as a defensive mid Diallo is too lightweight  We were crying out for the presence of Romeu alot earlier.... Ralph just seems to stationary I'm not sure if it's stubbornness but just lacks the foresight to adapt and switch up tatictically when under the cosh.....

 

[AlexLaw76]

For me, the constant surrender of midfield is killing us.  We need to have Romeu/JwP and Salisu at 100% to have a chance.

[S-Clarke]

I honestly think a lot of it is down to the quality of the player we've got, maybe lacking a touch of experience as well at crucial times. We've got a couple of decent PL players in JWP and KWP who have progressed massively under the manager, but the rest are pretty average or young/inexperienced and when they fall into poor form we end up having to carry them, and the shoulder of that responsibility falls on the two real decent consistent players we have (KWP and JWP)

Ralph doesn't help himself with daft decisions and late subs, but I think he's been searching around for answers from a bunch of players that just don't have the true quality required to sustain the style he wants. It must frustrate him as much as it frustrates us, as for times it looks like he has a tune out of them but then Armstrong/Romeu/Bednarek/Adams etc fall off a cliff and the rest is history. That's been a consistent theme over the last few years to be honest.

If you bring someone in like Ralph, then you have to back him to bring the players in he needs. I look at his RB sides and the pace/power through that spine which was the fundamental building blocks of the press. When he wants more pace and a bigger press from our attack, we play Long and Redmond or maybe Elyounoussi. That says it all to me.

[Teddeer]

For me it started with the 4-0 defeat at Villa.That seemed to be the catalyst for this run we are on. Prior to that we'd been playing well and had some great results. For some reason we were dire at Villa Park and the rot set in. I don't understand why one poor performance should lead to an onset of abysmal displays.

[sydney_saint]

The gap between our best players and the rest is huge. I think the West Ham game masked just how big a drop off it is. The only players we have which are clear top 12 sort of players are KWP, JWP, Salisu, Romeu with maybes around S Armstrong, Broja (though he will get there), Perraud, Forster and Liv. The rest are all bottom EPL/Championship level.

Then we had three key players lose form all at the same time, and nobody stepped up.

Salisu- was a rock for us. Form fell off a cliff. Whether this was head turned or young player out of form I am not sure. Either way, the other cbs, especially Bednarek, have not stepped up to cover his drop off. Bednarek has been utterly woeful.

Romeu- Love the guy. Was swaggering around with his dick out during our good run. Was playing as one of the dms in the league. Now he is lumbering around with his gut out and we don't have anyone who can play his role. That's a major squad failing, as Diallo is a very different player.

Broja- Was on a hot streak that went cold. Understandable for a young player. None of the other strikers have stepped up with goals. Armstrong has barely had a look in, Che has missed so many chances by trying to blast the ball through the keepers, Long shouldn't be anywhere near the pitch. To compound this, our number 10s are generally not up to scratch. Stuart is the only one and his form has turned as well.

Our squad is in such a poor way that it only takes 3 or so players form to turn if they are one of our few very good players, and that puts us on a shit run. Likewise, if all our key players are in good form, we can give anyone a game as they can cover the shortcomings on the rest of the pitch.

 

[Sheaf Saint]

For me, the biggest single factor is Romeu's sharp drop in form.

During our good spell he was putting in MOTM performances week in week out, which gave us much more control of midfield and provided protection to cover for the failings of our CB pairing.

When he plays well, we play well. When he doesn't, we look terrible.

As we discovered yesterday though, an out of form Romeu is still a far better option than Diallo, who simply cannot play his role.

[Tamesaint]

Was Ralph told by the new owners just before the Villa game that he was to be replaced? He lost interest, became a dead man walking and his lethargy has spread to the players.

[Diabolus Ex Machina]

Simple answer - lack of goals. These players did very well over half a season between October and February - 8W, 7D, 4L, 31pts but that also coincided for good runs of form for both Adams (7 goals) and Broja (6 goals) as well as Redmond picking up a number of assists. The rest of the season before and after that period - 1W, 6D, 10L, 9pts. Our only striker to score during those spells? Adam Armstrong on the opening day - that's it. We're lucky Ward-Prowse is such a good free kick taker or we'd be even more in the sh*t.

Now the more complicated answer would need to look at why our goal scoring form has dropped off - players out of form? no chances created? coming up against good defenses/goalkeepers? bad luck? Probably a combination of all these things. The other consistent thing though that has been there all season (and in previous seasons) is our poor defensive record - we always look likely to concede in a game. It's that 'we're gonna score more than you' mentality Ralph has but where the strikers aren't consistently good enough to score regularly and the defense is poor enough to always concede so it doesn't always work and we begin losing more than we win.

Ralph needs to learn that when the goals start drying up you can't necessarily just switch out one striker for another and hope the goals suddenly start flowing again but that simply tightening up at the back and grinding out a result or two might help turn around momentum and make us less predictable to play against.

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, sydney_saint said:

The gap between our best players and the rest is huge. I think the West Ham game masked just how big a drop off it is. The only players we have which are clear top 12 sort of players are KWP, JWP, Salisu, Romeu with maybes around S Armstrong, Broja (though he will get there), Perraud, Forster and Liv. The rest are all bottom EPL/Championship level.

Then we had three key players lose form all at the same time, and nobody stepped up.

Salisu- was a rock for us. Form fell off a cliff. Whether this was head turned or young player out of form I am not sure. Either way, the other cbs, especially Bednarek, have not stepped up to cover his drop off. Bednarek has been utterly woeful.

Romeu- Love the guy. Was swaggering around with his dick out during our good run. Was playing as one of the dms in the league. Now he is lumbering around with his gut out and we don't have anyone who can play his role. That's a major squad failing, as Diallo is a very different player.

Broja- Was on a hot streak that went cold. Understandable for a young player. None of the other strikers have stepped up with goals. Armstrong has barely had a look in, Che has missed so many chances by trying to blast the ball through the keepers, Long shouldn't be anywhere near the pitch. To compound this, our number 10s are generally not up to scratch. Stuart is the only one and his form has turned as well.

Our squad is in such a poor way that it only takes 3 or so players form to turn if they are one of our few very good players, and that puts us on a shit run. Likewise, if all our key players are in good form, we can give anyone a game as they can cover the shortcomings on the rest of the pitch.

 

Bang on the money in every thing you've said.

[Piran]

Well, I blame the demise of hesgoal.com. I was happily watching every game this season, and very enjoyable most of them were, too. I believe it was the Villa game when the plug was pulled, and look at our form since then!

[southbourne saint]

The run of bad form seems to coincide with Ralph saying he will leave at the end of his contract. No excuse though.

[Toussaint]

For me it was when Ralph started experimenting with some strange  fashions known generally as “haute du p’do”, generally giving the impression of modelling himself on a choir master with an unhealthy interest in his young choristers. This, I believe, greatly unnerved some of the younger players. 

[Chez]

7 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

For me, the biggest single factor is Romeu's sharp drop in form.

During our good spell he was putting in MOTM performances week in week out, which gave us much more control of midfield and provided protection to cover for the failings of our CB pairing.

When he plays well, we play well. When he doesn't, we look terrible.

As we discovered yesterday though, an out of form Romeu is still a far better option than Diallo, who simply cannot play his role.

I agree with this. There is certainly correlation between his loss of form/fitness and the shit results. There are other factors of course. Football is a confidence game, and the stuffing against Villa really seemed to knock it.

[Give it to Ron]

7 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

For me, the biggest single factor is Romeu's sharp drop in form.

During our good spell he was putting in MOTM performances week in week out, which gave us much more control of midfield and provided protection to cover for the failings of our CB pairing.

When he plays well, we play well. When he doesn't, we look terrible.

As we discovered yesterday though, an out of form Romeu is still a far better option than Diallo, who simply cannot play his role.

When was last time Diallo started a game yet he is expected to come in and play well!

Him and Armstrong were not good enough against Palace for 1 minute yet start yesterday!

[Badger]

8 hours ago, Teddeer said:

For me it started with the 4-0 defeat at Villa.That seemed to be the catalyst for this run we are on. Prior to that we'd been playing well and had some great results. For some reason we were dire at Villa Park and the rot set in. I don't understand why one poor performance should lead to an onset of abysmal displays.

This is the biggest mystery, and it seems inevitability following a bad result. Many teams will have  a bad result, a shock result even, but they bounce back, and you read how their next opponents face the backlash (especially when it's us, no coincidence there perhaps). wWth our lot though they become nervous wrecks, and follow a bad result with a run of another 10 or so.

 

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Nothing is really surprising about this season given the patterns of previous seasons have emerged again.  What it has done is rubberstamp the thoughts I wondered heading into this season:

1. We're a momentum team that has a fragile confidence.  When we have momentum its great, when we lose it it takes a long time to regain it.  A lack of leadership and mentality doesn't help.

2. Our performances and stretches of form are because we recruit players with potential and have to watch their ups and downs in developing played out on the pitch - and those who are senior pros aren't good enough to move on elsewhere so the youngsters can't be dragged through matches when they are going through bad periods.  Salisu is having a tough time right now, but there isn't a natural partner for him who can help him through it, for example.

3. Ralph is struggling to address his weaknesses and he is a finished article as well (I still think we're punching above our weight with him as our Manager though).

 

The only thing that will break this cycle is new players or a new manager.   I'd rather see what Ralph can do with a better quality of player, as too many of this squad have proved they have ability but not the consistency to be a top half player in the Premier League.  Ralph has made mistakes, but player ceilings are not his fault.  He continually sells his best players and has to do with bargain bucket replacements.  No other club has been like this than us over this period of time in the Premier League - maybe that is why my expectations are low and nothing surprises me.

[saints1988]

6 hours ago, southbourne saint said:

The run of bad form seems to coincide with Ralph saying he will leave at the end of his contract. No excuse though.

This may have some merit.

Thought is was odd at the time - I can’t see any upside to making that information public and certainly not to 25 professional footballers, it just created unnecessary noise 

Edited 8 May, 2022 by saints1988

[Crab Lungs]

4 hours ago, Lallana's Left Peg said:

Nothing is really surprising about this season given the patterns of previous seasons have emerged again.  What it has done is rubberstamp the thoughts I wondered heading into this season:

1. We're a momentum team that has a fragile confidence.  When we have momentum its great, when we lose it it takes a long time to regain it.  A lack of leadership and mentality doesn't help.

2. Our performances and stretches of form are because we recruit players with potential and have to watch their ups and downs in developing played out on the pitch - and those who are senior pros aren't good enough to move on elsewhere so the youngsters can't be dragged through matches when they are going through bad periods.  Salisu is having a tough time right now, but there isn't a natural partner for him who can help him through it, for example.

3. Ralph is struggling to address his weaknesses and he is a finished article as well (I still think we're punching above our weight with him as our Manager though).

 

The only thing that will break this cycle is new players or a new manager.   I'd rather see what Ralph can do with a better quality of player, as too many of this squad have proved they have ability but not the consistency to be a top half player in the Premier League.  Ralph has made mistakes, but player ceilings are not his fault.  He continually sells his best players and has to do with bargain bucket replacements.  No other club has been like this than us over this period of time in the Premier League - maybe that is why my expectations are low and nothing surprises me.

Just to say, I couldn’t have put that better myself. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

Most of the likely reasons have been covered already in this thread and in my view the most likely key issue is the system Ralph insists on using. Not that it’s invalid, but just unworkable with this squad - they’re just not good enough. However Ralph has no other option - he doesn’t have a different system that he personally is competent at deploying, he doesn’t listen to others (I’ve been told that by a club connection) and anyway, the system has been adopted by the entire club from youth level upwards (the lauded ‘Southampton Way’).

The answer? There’s no chance of overhauling the squad (it would need 5-6 players of KWP’s level to make a difference) as there’s not the investment funds available. So the answer has to be in the manager and coaching staff being completely changed out. A shame it’s necessary to see Ralph go, but this is a results driven game and our results have been in general relegation level appalling for too long.

Edited 9 May, 2022 by Saint Fan CaM
Typo

[S-Clarke]

14 hours ago, Lallana's Left Peg said:

Nothing is really surprising about this season given the patterns of previous seasons have emerged again.  What it has done is rubberstamp the thoughts I wondered heading into this season:

1. We're a momentum team that has a fragile confidence.  When we have momentum its great, when we lose it it takes a long time to regain it.  A lack of leadership and mentality doesn't help.

2. Our performances and stretches of form are because we recruit players with potential and have to watch their ups and downs in developing played out on the pitch - and those who are senior pros aren't good enough to move on elsewhere so the youngsters can't be dragged through matches when they are going through bad periods.  Salisu is having a tough time right now, but there isn't a natural partner for him who can help him through it, for example.

3. Ralph is struggling to address his weaknesses and he is a finished article as well (I still think we're punching above our weight with him as our Manager though).

 

The only thing that will break this cycle is new players or a new manager.   I'd rather see what Ralph can do with a better quality of player, as too many of this squad have proved they have ability but not the consistency to be a top half player in the Premier League.  Ralph has made mistakes, but player ceilings are not his fault.  He continually sells his best players and has to do with bargain bucket replacements.  No other club has been like this than us over this period of time in the Premier League - maybe that is why my expectations are low and nothing surprises me.

Great post. This is exactly what it is

Changing a manager is always the easy option, but without good players nothing will really change. You might get a bit of a bounce with a new manager as the average players want to show a new light, but as they're still shit they'll all return to norm within time. 

It's fair to say Ralph has been given the opportunity to sign players, but as you said these are players with a development slant often at the expense of the better experienced players (Ings etc). Not a great recipe. That's why the approach of filling a team up with Tino's, Broja's and Salisu's is exciting, but it is a completely flawed approach when they are given the likes of Theo, Long, Redmond and Bednarek to carry them through 'dips'.

The club need to stop putting faith in these washed up players we've carried for so long, once we have better experienced players expect the younger players to flourish.

Edited 9 May, 2022 by S-Clarke

[Nordic Saint]

We don't have anyone who's any good at heading the ball, either in defence or attack, and opposition managers have begun to capitalize on it. Meanwhile our manager and coaches still don't seem to have realized and we keep lobbng high crosses, throw-ins and corners into the opposition penalty area. Because we don't win anything in the air, the pathetic excuse has even be offered that we deliberately direct long throws to opposition players' heads so that they will head the ball to one of our players, which of course they don't. They head it to one of their own players instead and start an attack against us.

I believe there are stats which show we are the worst team for conceding goals from corners and crosses and for failing to score from them at the other end.

Until we buy a defender and striker or two who are good at heading, we are going to continue struggling.

Edited 9 May, 2022 by Nordic Saint

[Teddeer]

9 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Most of the likely reasons have been covered already in this thread and in my view the most likely key issue is the system Ralph insists on using. Not that it’s invalid, but just unworkable with this squad - they’re just not good enough. However Ralph has no other option - he doesn’t have a different system that he personally is competent at deploying, he doesn’t listen to others (I’ve been told that by a club connection) and anyway, the system has been adopted by the entire club from youth level upwards (the lauded ‘Southampton Way’).

The answer? There’s no chance of overhauling the squad (it would need 5-6 players of KWP’s level to make a difference) as there’s not the investment funds available. So the answer has to be in the manager and coaching staff being completely changed out. A shame it’s necessary to see Ralph go, but this is a results driven game and our results have been in general relegation level appalling for too long.

If it is true that Ralph does not listen to others then this is a sure way of losing the players and coaching staff. He will have left himself isolated and unpopular and caused a huge rift between himself and those he is meant to be working with, players and coaches alike. This is very bad news if true but explains a lot.

[Nordic Saint]

5 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

If it is true that Ralph does not listen to others then this is a sure way of losing the players and coaching staff. He will have left himself isolated and unpopular and caused a huge rift between himself and those he is meant to be working with, players and coaches alike. This is very bad news if true but explains a lot.

Does he have anyone on his coaching staff who's worth listening to? Kelvin Davis? Dave Watson?

[ecuk268]

48 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

Does he have anyone on his coaching staff who's worth listening to? Kelvin Davis? Dave Watson?

Why are 3 of our coaches ex-goalkeepers?

[cloggy saint]

Where has it gone wrong? When was it ever really right? In 45 years of supporting Saints, with a handful of exceptions, lower mid table is our default position.

[John B]

12 minutes ago, cloggy saint said:

Where has it gone wrong? When was it ever really right? In 45 years of supporting Saints, with a handful of exceptions, lower mid table is our default position.

Yes I agree but I do feel that our current players apart from a few are pretty poor and it is unsurprising that we are where we are

[cloggy saint]

6 minutes ago, John B said:

Yes I agree but I do feel that our current players apart from a few are pretty poor and it is unsurprising that we are where we are.

Exactly, no surprise at all, I don't get why so many people are up in arms about it, this is our level. Personally I think it's some achievement being in and staying in the top flight.

[John B]

5 minutes ago, cloggy saint said:

Exactly, no surprise at all, I don't get why so many people are up in arms about it, this is our level. Personally I think it's some achievement being in and staying in the top flight.

Exactly my friends I met at Uni sixty years ago supported Sheff Wed Sunderland Ipswich Man City Carlisle Swindon and Nottm Forest

 

I expect most would be envious of my situation

[Dorchester Saint]

On 08/05/2022 at 10:22, Suhari said:

Suggestions of something of a clear out of first team players: maybe a few of them are not only on the beach, but mentally out of the club.

I would suggest that if that was the case, they’d be wanting to play well in order to secure new clubs?

[Sheaf Saint]

49 minutes ago, cloggy saint said:

Where has it gone wrong? When was it ever really right? In 45 years of supporting Saints, with a handful of exceptions, lower mid table is our default position.

Ok this is a very valid point, but on a much shorter timescale things have clearly 'gone wrong'. Just over 2 months ago we were performing well as a team, getting results and generally looking hard to beat. Since then our performance levels have fallen off a cliff and we look a shadow of the team that went and beat Spurs at their own place and dumped West Ham out of the FA cup.

You could certainly argue that the good spell was us over-achieving and that we are now playing at the level we should be, but it's perfectly reasonable to ask why things might have changed so dramatically.

[Badger]

49 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

 

You could certainly argue that the good spell was us over-achieving and that we are now playing at the level we should be, but it's perfectly reasonable to ask why things might have changed so dramatically.

My estimate of our true position should be somewhere in between, but we never get that over a sustained period, it's feast or famine, shit or bust ..

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, John B said:

Exactly my friends I met at Uni sixty years ago supported Sheff Wed Sunderland Ipswich Man City Carlisle Swindon and Nottm Forest

 

I expect most would be envious of my situation

 

1 hour ago, cloggy saint said:

Exactly, no surprise at all, I don't get why so many people are up in arms about it, this is our level. Personally I think it's some achievement being in and staying in the top flight.

I guess it's all based around expectations isn't it. We flirted with the elite for a few years under MP and Koeman, and pre-dating that we had back to back promotions and were winning most weeks. It was quite a ride for 5 or 6 years of non-stop success, but the sad truth is that was not our norm - it was a golden period for us. Our norm is exactly what we're doing right now, a mid-table nothing much PL club which can occasionally flirt with the top 10 but always has a chance of going down. There's always a chance you can get a few good years pushing even higher, but we're not big enough or rich enough to have that as our norm and what we should expect.

Leicester are another example, they've had a really strong golden period winning the league, getting into Europe 3 years in a row, winning the FA Cup etc. But ultimately they're not too dissimilar to ourselves, that wasn't their norm. Their norm is very similar to what we are, bottom half, pushing for top 10, can be a chance of relegation. It doesn't take much to deter clubs of our size from a positive trajectory, a bad transfer window can be enough. 3 or 4 bad transfer windows can be catastrophic, which is why it's impressive we are still a PL side.

[Wurzel]

On 08/05/2022 at 12:18, Sheaf Saint said:

For me, the biggest single factor is Romeu's sharp drop in form.

During our good spell he was putting in MOTM performances week in week out, which gave us much more control of midfield and provided protection to cover for the failings of our CB pairing.

When he plays well, we play well. When he doesn't, we look terrible.

As we discovered yesterday though, an out of form Romeu is still a far better option than Diallo, who simply cannot play his role.

And is that any surprise? During that good spell we were effetively playing with 12 men against 11 , Romeu was covering the ground and doing the work that any other club would require 2 men to do.  No way could he be expected to keep that up all season.  Now his form (or fitness) has dropped back to that of a normal human being we are back to 11 v 11 and against most opposition we simply aren't good enough.

 

[cloggy saint]

2 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I guess it's all based around expectations isn't it.

I just don't understand why anyone has any kind of expectations where Saints are concerned, there's absolutely nothing to base it on.

[saint1977]

3 hours ago, Wurzel said:

And is that any surprise? During that good spell we were effetively playing with 12 men against 11 , Romeu was covering the ground and doing the work that any other club would require 2 men to do.  No way could he be expected to keep that up all season.  Now his form (or fitness) has dropped back to that of a normal human being we are back to 11 v 11 and against most opposition we simply aren't good enough.

 

It also aligns with last season and Romeu breaking his leg at Leeds. If the takeover is to have any impact whatsoever, there needs to be the opportunity to get another 6. Also would be good to have an option to play Romeu and a new 6 away from home. Sell Diallo, good little player but the only option for him staying is if the manager leaves, doesn’t work in a 2. Still not sure what type of midfielder he is, probably box to box, but categorically not a DMC or 6. I’m not sure RH’s system works consistently outside of CL clubs but if the club are determined to stick, then some decent investment needs ponying up to get the pace and power all over the squad RH’s system needs plus sadly cashing in on JWP. The worst scenario that leads to 20th place next year is RH and the same powder puff players and lack of support for the few performers eg Oriol, JWP, KWP. 

[Badger]

6 hours ago, John B said:

Exactly my friends I met at Uni sixty years ago supported Sheff Wed Sunderland Ipswich Man City Carlisle Swindon and Nottm Forest

 

I expect most would be envious of my situation

Fair point. Had a text from a Reading supporter today and a few weeks ago as well for that matter saying what a basket case they’ve become. Despite the ‘joy’ of staying up this season he fully expects more of the same crap next season and another battle to stay in their division. Familiar? 

[woodsaint1]

I wouldnt say its been eye-opening as we have produced similar horrendous runs in previous seasons Our form from beating Liverpool in Jan 21 until the end of that season was probably worse. Our team is capable of an absolute horror show - the 9-0's, Chelsea and Villa this season which could have been much worse, which shows a mental fragility. Once it starts going bad we're incapable of stopping the bleeding. I think the same applies to our form, once we get on a bad run we find it difficult to arrest that slide.

There had be signs this season that we had built up some much needed resilience - West Ham away, Spurs away and Spurs home all great examples where we dug in when we needed to. But that was short-lived. We are too rigid with our style of play that if things start to go wrong, we dont know what to do. That sits with the manager who needs to make us more versatile. There is also a serious lack of confidence amongst the players, probably damaged by what they experienced in recent seasons.

When the system works and we're playing well, it has been a joy to watch at times. But you just know that another horror run is around the corner. Could you imagine if we had faced an injury crisis like Leeds or other teams have faced this season. We've been very fortunate to have our best team available every week and we're still putting this run of form together. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Ralph has to go. We've become too stagnant and need a change in direction. A change to the spine of the team would be very welcome too as I'm not convinced this group of players would improve under a new manager - too many damaged goods/mentally scarred

[West end Saints]

The team has looked lethargic recently & we seem to need all our players in good form at once (and are v good when they are) as soon as one or two are out of form we lose all shape. 

We are probably about where we should be for the standard of the squad.  Aside from fullbacks and CM not many would get time in other sides. 

Think our weakest area is attacking MF.  Ely had a decent spell, but doesn't really make enough impact, Redmond works quite hard but not a lot of product, S Armstrong gives away possession in the wrong places too often and doesn't put the work in - some good direct runs but nowhere near enough, Tella hasn't had the season I expected, Djenepo and Walcott have offered little this year. 

Defimately need to upgrade this area.  

[John B]

On 09/05/2022 at 19:54, Badger said:

Fair point. Had a text from a Reading supporter today and a few weeks ago as well for that matter saying what a basket case they’ve become. Despite the ‘joy’ of staying up this season he fully expects more of the same crap next season and another battle to stay in their division. Familiar? 

These days Reading is my local team and one of my daughyer's in-laws has a season ticket there

 

So I follow them a bit and have watched them a bit but yes like SFC they have limited investment and would have been relegated if Derby had not had points deducted.

 

Our strategy is not working our Academy is not producing PL quality players and the young players we buy like A Armstrong Adams Dialio Salisu  and Lynaco are hardly developing int top class PL players .

 

I cannot remember where Watkin came from to go to Villa but is worth £50m now apparently so it can be done as we found out with Mane Lovren and VVD but the unless we find some cheap players to develop we will find ourselves in the same position as Reading Sheff Wed Derby and Ipswich like we did 15 years ago

 

That relegation team was probably on a par or even better than our current one

[rooney]

18 minutes ago, John B said:

 

 

I cannot remember where Watkin came from to go to Villa but is worth £50m now apparently so it can be done as we found out with Mane Lovren and VVD but the unless we find some cheap players to develop we will find ourselves in the same position as Reading Sheff Wed Derby and Ipswich like we did 15 years ago

 

 

I think he came from Brentford via Exeter via Wston-Super-Mare

[Sarnia Cherie]

On 08/05/2022 at 15:14, southbourne saint said:

The run of bad form seems to coincide with Ralph saying he will leave at the end of his contract. No excuse though.

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Ralph say he was retiring at the end of the 2023/2024 season? If you are right and this is the reason for our recent run of very poor form and results then heaven help us if the team are going to continue playing like this until May 2024.