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Saints 1-2 Liverpool - Match Thread


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Hasenhuttl: "We tried our maximum today. The second goal we conceded was a little bit frustrating. It was not really necessary to concede in that moment. They didn't have a lot of chances in the second half but you can see the quality they have." #saintsfc [bbc]
 

what utter balls

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1 minute ago, obelisk said:

Watching Sky Sports you'd think there was only one team playing tonight. They're right though aren't they?

BBC have been excruciating in their Liverpool focussed coverage. Just makes me hope ever more that City win the title and Real thump them in the final.

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12 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Should the manager have been less passive? Maybe, but it just feels like a case of him being a loser with either approach. He was on a hiding to nothing tonight and it's not worth reading a great deal into it.

Good point. To be fair to Ralph (briefly), he would have spent the 10 days build up preparing and training to play a rampant full strength Liverpool side. So, when he discovers close to the game that he's facing a totally different Liverpool side to the one he's planned for, he has the dilemma of sticking with the tactics they've been training all week for, or change plans at the 11th hour. Perhaps an easier decision in hindsight...?

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4 minutes ago, Tanlee said:

Set up to lose but not get thumped

yep.

I guess it worked against City - and fans were happy with that earlier in the season - but when you don't get a result it looks horrible.

That Liverpool side were not world beaters. We should have had a go. Depressing considering we were safe and had a free go effectively.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Almost everyone said we'd be done, people were calling double figures or some ridiculously over the top predictions. We as fans obviously feared the worst and sadly it seems like the club feared the worst as well, so that team and that tactic was pretty much a damage limitation tactic. 

If we'd have opened that up and gone for it, we'd have been picked off for fun and it would have been an apocalyptic score line as some predicted. It was a weakened Liverpool team, but still...every single one of those players in that Liverpool team starts for us, so it's weak for them but still better than us. Most teams in this league are better than us, we are pretty much where we deserve to be.

Should the manager have been less passive? Maybe, but it just feels like a case of him being a loser with either approach. He was on a hiding to nothing tonight and it's not worth reading a great deal into it.

But what is clear, without any question, is that we have in the main  - bar 1 or 2 players - an absolutely horrific team of footballers and without significant changes in the playing squad, no matter who is manager, we are long gone and the fat lady will be singing by November I'd imagine.

Agree with most of this, we don’t 100% agree on Ralph unless he got a big transfer warchest to rebuild the squad completely Palace style, which it needs. Only way is if JWP is sold for top money to City, Pool or MU, and then there’s not even a pulse left and he is replaced by several ‘potential players’ at £11m or similar fees and Derby’s PL points record goes.

If the club is relegated next season the value gets wiped with the debt so it will be unsustainable anyway. Better to have a bit of a go in the summer if they do want Ralph to stay and clear out bar JWP, KWP, Rom, Livra (injured and they would have sold him if not), Salisu and Perraud (limited but gives a shit, at least competes). Hard to blame Lyanco too much either and fine for 4th choice CB.

Then the owners can get back to sustainability in 2023/24 having bought some players who improve, getting up the table so more place income and giving the few decent ones now a chance to shine and gain value eg Salisu and KWP. The club were able to buy Salisu because of the extra place money after Project Restart.

If they aren’t able to break the shackles this summer and repair Gao and Les’s legacy, hasn’t Semmens basically fucked up again? When he admits there were more lucrative options available. TV deals still huge yet comparatively spending less on transfers than under Lowe FFS. Other areas of the club might need to be trimmed back very hard to focus on first team and academy. 

Crocker is in for a busy time because about 13-15 first team players can go. They might work out better in a different environment with pace and strength around them, physically and mentally, but no good for SFC right now. Some of them eg Ely, Bednarek and Diallo might get buyers, others at a lower level eg Tella, others eg Theo no chance. WTF was the club thinking there? That’s £75k per week you might as well burn on a beach KLF style. That’s sackable whoever sanctioned it because it was obvious Theo was declining rapidly after his injury last season. 

The only other way is if Rasmus has a 2014 summer window on a smaller budget and everything comes off (very unlikely). Something has not been right at the club since the Cup game and I don’t know what it is. It emerges as something lethargic and rotten on the pitch though. STH sales are going to be well down. 

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4 minutes ago, trousers said:

The thing is, we know these players CAN play well when their confidence is high (as per our top 6 form between mid-December and early March). The main problem IMO is inconsistency born out of fragile mindsets, which both the players and management are culpable for. 

All players and all teams play well occasionally. Good players and good teams play well consistently.

 

The last four seasons we’ve only picked up points on a good spell of form over a couple of months. The rest of the time we’ve been consistently shit. The good form is the anomaly, the bad form is the standard. We can’t rely on shit players and manager getting a bit of luck and having a high spell every season.

 

But every season we managed to convince ourselves the players are good and the manager is good because we’ve managed to go on a bit of a run each season (despite never really winning that comfortably), when in reality they’re both poor, it’s just we just let our expectations go too high, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

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9 minutes ago, DT said:

Hasenhuttl: "We tried our maximum today. The second goal we conceded was a little bit frustrating. It was not really necessary to concede in that moment. They didn't have a lot of chances in the second half but you can see the quality they have." #saintsfc [bbc]
 

what utter balls

We'll be lucky to get 10 points next season if that's our maximum. 

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2 minutes ago, trousers said:

Good point. To be fair to Ralph (briefly), he would have spent the 10 days build up preparing and training to play a rampant full strength Liverpool side. So, when he discovers close to the game that he's facing a totally different Liverpool side to the one he's planned for, he has the dilemma of sticking with the tactics they've been training all week for, or change plans at the 11th hour. Perhaps an easier decision in hindsight...?

Tbh you've summed up Ralph and our squads big flaw in a single post. We're great at having a single gameplan and if the stars align we can look very good on our day. However, that very rarely happens. You're always going to have curve balls come at you in the PL. Teams will change formations, personnel, tactics and a manager/group of players need to adapt and be versatile enough to react to that. The better teams can do that. We're incapable of that and that is a damning indictment on a manager who has been here for quite a few years

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27 minutes ago, captainchris said:

Not a Ralph fan at all but slinging two strikers on is how we played all year - CRAP! Two strikers is NOT the answer.

Coaching, organisation and energy are however. Ralph’s teams do not benefit from any of those. 
We must concentrate on keeping the ball and controlling games, two up front will NOT cut that! It leaves us too light in midfield. 

 

Against that Liverpool team? You are 1-2 down yet you think 1 striker is enough? sorry that’s crap what’s difference losing 2 - 1 or 3 - 1 at least have a go but no oh and with 1 striker we didn’t control anything the whole game especially with lightweight Tella and Ely useless who did sum total of nothing but mark space and piss poor header from their corner.

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14 minutes ago, davefizzy14 said:

Big changes are needed over the summer. The new owners need to step up and deliver. Another game we were in the ascendancy and we somehow throw away. I stayed for the lap appreciation for Ralph and the players :) as that's what a proper fan does even though it's so frustrating at the moment. 

Congratulations, you are part of the problem. Standing there applauding a load of blokes who are earning millions of pounds a year, to give substandard performances, who will drop this club like a bad habit should the chance for something better arise. 
 

However anyone that left isn’t a proper fan? What a cuck.

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Holding off on substitutions until the 70th minute or later (or until we fall behind) is undoubtedly a Ralph trait and I hate it. When was the last time he made a half time change after a poor first half? A Ward-Prowse and Diallo midfield has never worked. He never should have started with that pairing but he waited too late to rectify it. Romeu is our only CDM.

 

This season I've seen an 89th minute change when behind in a game. What impact is that supposed to have? I regularly disagree with his team selections. I regularly disagree with his game management. And we regularly score first and lose the game.

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9 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

Congratulations, you are part of the problem. Standing there applauding a load of blokes who are earning millions of pounds a year, to give substandard performances, who will drop this club like a bad habit should the chance for something better arise. 
 

However anyone that left isn’t a proper fan? What a cuck.

Whatever mate have a day off. I'm very frustrated about the performance tonight. We should have gone for it more in the second half.

Edited by davefizzy14
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No reason not to go for it in the last 20 minutes. We only really bothered to attack with 5 minutes to go. Might as well lose 3-1 rather than limp towards a 2-1 defeat. 

Too many players looked like they were playing passively. That's down to Hasenhuttl not fully motivating them, there's other teams with nothing to play for who are still putting in proper performances and battling to get results whereas we have been sleepwalking to the end of the season for too long.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, wadesmith said:

If Forest go out tonight.......

 

15 minutes ago, trousers said:

...we can replace Ralph with a manager that failed to get promotion from the championship? ;)

 

14 minutes ago, wadesmith said:

Yes! ...Mind you I remember the protests when we got a manager that had Coventry relegated!

Great manager this Forest fella. Snap him up.... :)

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44 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

The reason we didn't get hammered was that they sent their C team. Who the hell should be pleased with the fact that we can't even match their third string players who haven't played together before tonight.

It was their B team, no need to exaggerate !!

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19 minutes ago, trousers said:

Good point. To be fair to Ralph (briefly), he would have spent the 10 days build up preparing and training to play a rampant full strength Liverpool side. So, when he discovers close to the game that he's facing a totally different Liverpool side to the one he's planned for, he has the dilemma of sticking with the tactics they've been training all week for, or change plans at the 11th hour. Perhaps an easier decision in hindsight...?

His well paid job is to have the team prepared for all eventualities. Once again he came up short and showed a lack of tactical acumen.

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9 minutes ago, LGTL said:

A completely pointless evening by our pointless football club. 

Pointless evening? Pointless 5 years. 
 

For the last 5 seasons our average finish is:

15th place | 42 points 

Not easy being a Saint supporter. No joy. Very little joy.

 

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1 minute ago, woodsaint1 said:

Like when he tried to lob it over Origi on the edge of his own box and got a lucky foul 🤦🏽‍♂️

Is that the sort of thing i'd like to see him try every week, no but when behind with time running low i'm less critical of a player trying something positive.

Also it was a foul. If he hadn't of been fouled he would likely have got the ball.

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7 minutes ago, The Cat said:

No reason not to go for it in the last 20 minutes. We only really bothered to attack with 5 minutes to go. Might as well lose 3-1 rather than limp towards a 2-1 defeat. 

Too many players looked like they were playing passively. That's down to Hasenhuttl not fully motivating them, there's other teams with nothing to play for who are still putting in proper performances and battling to get results whereas we have been sleepwalking to the end of the season for too long.

 

 

Agreed. Brentford had fuck all to play for, but still competed brilliantly against Everton,who needed a result. Same with Newcastle on Monday night. This lot are just not interested anymore. 

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In a game that would have been watched by millions around the world I’m actually embarrassed being a saints fan tonight. We should be investigated by the premier league after that. I couldn’t understand what I was watching, we go 1 up and then just expect to sit back the whole game, you could see it was only a matter of time before Liverpool scored the winner. We were dead on our feet and urgently needed changes. What is it with tella , so out of his depth tonight and should have been subbed at half time. Everyone was calling for changes. Ralph just didn’t react. It’s unbelievable that he didn’t. The players didn’t give a fook tonight, nor did Ralph and I’m sorry but he needs to go now.  He didn’t once try and change our shape, even she behind. His and his coaching teams complete lack of tactical ability showed tonight.  How the owner and the board can find that performance and those of the last 2 months acceptable i don’t know, unless the whole club is inept right now.

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A lack of quality and effort (from many) combined gives you tonight. Utter shambles. Why in earth we didn’t get at that lot and press from the off I don’t know….even for the first 20 minutes. It wasn’t their first team (although still a quality side obviously) but last home game, safe….just have a go. Season ended with a whimper, and  we are lucky we had that run a few months ago.

Essentially a good, easy training session for their 2nd string. That is worrying. 
Oh well, always next season. 

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2 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Agreed. Brentford had fuck all to play for, but still competed brilliantly against Everton,who needed a result. Same with Newcastle on Monday night. This lot are just not interested anymore. 

The main thing today was a manager not interested. The players were doing what they were told.

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10 minutes ago, The Cat said:

No reason not to go for it in the last 20 minutes. We only really bothered to attack with 5 minutes to go. Might as well lose 3-1 rather than limp towards a 2-1 defeat. 

 

 

 

Agreed. It was worth going four at the back or pushing those fullbacks high well before the 88th minute.

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10 minutes ago, SaintTex said:

Pointless evening? Pointless 5 years. 
 

For the last 5 seasons our average finish is:

15th place | 42 points 

Not easy being a Saint supporter. No joy. Very little joy.

 

made the FA cup semi final twice in that period, all be it both displays in the semis were not far off what we showed tonight.

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  • Southampton have dropped 29 points from winning positions in the Premier League this season, the most of any side and the most by a team in a single season since the Saints themselves dropped 29 in the 2018-19 season.
  • Since the start of March, only Watford (9) have lost more Premier League games than Southampton (8), while only the Hornets have shipped more goals (28) than the Saints (26).
  • No team has conceded more headers than Southampton (14)
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3 minutes ago, Sarisbury Saint said:

As for our lightweight toothless midfield, the less said the better.

Diallo and Tella were poor. Both should have been subbed at half time IMO. Ralph waited until they scored the second. Not sure either are good enough for the Prem.

Moi was non existent in this game and JWP too I should add. So many players failed to show the courage on the ball needed when under pressure or the movement intoi space to help those goys under pressure. Not good at all.

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2 minutes ago, West end Saints said:

Clear again weakness in midfield, 

I really don't see Ely, Tella, Djenepo, S Armstrong as being close to good enough if the team hopes to be a top half side. Maybe one or two as squad level, but we should have starters better than those. 

The club still has too many players that have been purchased as punts to be able to sell on, who have not lived up to the billing; Diallo, Elyounoussi and Djnepo being 3 that come straight to mind.

Bednarek is okay, but nowhere near premier league standard and a profit should be made from him.  Club feels like an utter mess, it needs a complete overhaul and a board with the balls to make that call.  New management and coaching staff, most players have their price (Livramento, Walker-Peters, Salisu, Ward-Prowse all get passes, Che Adams too), even for free, start again, now, fast, get on it. 

 

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7 minutes ago, nta786 said:
  • Southampton have dropped 29 points from winning positions in the Premier League this season, the most of any side and the most by a team in a single season since the Saints themselves dropped 29 in the 2018-19 season.
  • Since the start of March, only Watford (9) have lost more Premier League games than Southampton (8), while only the Hornets have shipped more goals (28) than the Saints (26).
  • No team has conceded more headers than Southampton (14)

Apart from that, we're doing well and have a clear plan.

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2 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

The club still has too many players that have been purchased as punts to be able to sell on, who have not lived up to the billing; Diallo, Elyounoussi and Djnepo being 3 that come straight to mind.

Bednarek is okay, but nowhere near premier league standard and a profit should be made from him.  Club feels like an utter mess, it needs a complete overhaul and a board with the balls to make that call.  New management and coaching staff, most players have their price (Livramento, Walker-Peters, Salisu, Ward-Prowse all get passes, Che Adams too), even for free, start again, now, fast, get on it. 

 

I don't think Diallo was a punt, he was a 7-8m signing which should just be pocket change for a PL club and a squad filler. I'd say Elyounoussi and Moussa were certainly punts in the £15m+ region that we would have expected either a return or at least a profit. Same could have been said for Hoedt, Lemina, Boufal etc but we had to give those guys away for free. 

I know we always had a laugh at Alpine when he said we were run like a seaside B&B, but it's safe to say in the last 5 years we have been run just like that. Maybe worse.

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11 minutes ago, nta786 said:
  • Southampton have dropped 29 points from winning positions in the Premier League this season, the most of any side and the most by a team in a single season since the Saints themselves dropped 29 in the 2018-19 season.
  • Since the start of March, only Watford (9) have lost more Premier League games than Southampton (8), while only the Hornets have shipped more goals (28) than the Saints (26).
  • No team has conceded more headers than Southampton (14)

These and all the other terrible stats Ralph has racked up are exactly why he should be on his way now. Everyone sees it. Why not the new owners  

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A few points if I may.....

No guts. No fight. No plan. No coordination. No ambition. No passion. No clue. No fucking point.

How many of our first team would get into the Liverpool reserves? Very few if any I would say.

Liverpool played with that old cunning footballing tactic. Pass it to a team mate. Something Saints should have perhaps tried. Although we did seem to come on strong.......in the 92nd minute!!!!

I'll admit, I've always preferred McCarthy to Forster....JUST, but he has had 6 months on the sidelines to sort his distribution out. What the fuck has he been doing in that time? Appalling display. And the whole falling on the ball when you catch it, to waste a bit of time near then end of the game, I get it! But he was doing it in the FIRST HALF.

I'll also admit (all these admissions are very painful tonight) I have always been on the "Ralph IN" side of the debate, but one thing seems certain to me now, the team, for whatever reason, is not playing for him and we all know when that happens there is usually only one outcome. 

Boy, will we miss Romeu if, or when he goes. Diallo is not the solution. Tella apart from one pass looked like a lost child at the seaside. Broja is not the player he was when he came to us. DO NOT SPEND BIG MONEY TO KEEP HIM. To me, Che offers more in holding the ball up as a lone striker. 

JWP had a definite off night. Moi......what the fuck......at least he should get an assist for the brilliant flick-on at the near post that led to their second goal. Otherwise anonymous. Redmond - obviously a good goal and one other shot, but also anonymous otherwise. And Jack Stephens........a usual Brain Fart.

KWP, Salisu and Lyanco I can't criticize tonight. At least it looked like it mattered to them. At least it looked like they were trying (even if Lyanco did try to play "keepy uppey" in a dangerous situation.

Anyway, for what it's worth those are my thoughts.

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