New manager thread

[Saint86]

On 21/05/2022 at 11:20, The Kraken said:

And here’s another one on this page.

https://www.saintsweb.co.uk/topic/57561-the-ralph-hasenhuttl-thread/page/127/

MLG erroneously stated that Ralph didn’t walk away early from his job at Leipzig. It was pointed out that this was an incorrect statement. No reply.

 

 

He also shot me down for saying the relegation threshold would be circa 34 points this season (relegation prices thread), whilst suggesting 28 points himself. But i don't get wound up by it like some of the posters on here. On the contrary It just makes me smile - its simply an omission that he knows who's boss at the end of the day 🤣😎

[Miltonaggro]

40 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Might as well lock this thread now. With the coaches being let go but Ralph not, he's obviously here to stay for the foreseeable.

I wonder if this move has actually been done strategically to put a bit of pressure on RH to see if he will resign or take a lesser pay off then resign to save face / salvage reputation. Give it a few weeks, as fans we will likely have a better idea if the new coaches appear quickly (as if they've been lined up for months...).   

[Turkish]

22 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

He also shot me down for saying the relegation threshold would be circa 34 points this season (relegation prices thread), whilst suggesting 28 points himself. But i don't get wound up by it like some of the posters on here. On the contrary It just makes me smile - its simply an omission that he knows who's boss at the end of the day 🤣😎

I'm still waiting for the stadium expansion he assured us was going to happen "soon" back in 2011. 

[Sheaf Saint]

14 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

I wonder if this move has actually been done strategically to put a bit of pressure on RH to see if he will resign or take a lesser pay off then resign to save face / salvage reputation. Give it a few weeks, as fans we will likely have a better idea if the new coaches appear quickly (as if they've been lined up for months...).   

I doubt that personally. If SR want to replace Ralph then now is the time to do it. Replacing his coaches in the hope he will leave of his own accord doesn't sound like sound forward planning to me.

I know it's the done thing to bash him and call for his head on this forum now, so I'm probably in the minority these days, but the fact remains that Rslph has kept us in the PL for 4 seasons running despite having one of the weakest squads, the second lowest net spend in that time, and a team of coaching staff that the new owners have decided are not up to standard.

Maybe, just maybe, the board aren't as reactionary as the majority of this forum and they recognise that RH has the skills to manage the club in line with their expectations, and just needs to be given better tools (ie playing squad and coaching staff) to achieve that.

[John B]

1 minute ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I doubt that personally. If SR want to replace Ralph then now is the time to do it. Replacing his coaches in the hope he will leave of his own accord doesn't sound like sound forward planning to me.

I know it's the done thing to bash him and call for his head on this forum now, so I'm probably in the minority these days, but the fact remains that Rslph has kept us in the PL for 4 seasons running despite having one of the weakest squads, the second lowest net spend in that time, and a team of coaching staff that the new owners have decided are not up to standard.

Maybe, just maybe, the board aren't as reactionary as the majority of this forum and they recognise that RH has the skills to manage the club in line with their expectations, and just needs to be given better tools (ie playing squad and coaching staff) to achieve that.

Yes I agree with your last comment

 

Norwich Leeds Watford Burnley and Everton all had new managers and three went down anyway

 

Better coaching and better players is what is needed a bit more luck and fewer errors would also help

[manji]

20 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I doubt that personally. If SR want to replace Ralph then now is the time to do it. Replacing his coaches in the hope he will leave of his own accord doesn't sound like sound forward planning to me.

I know it's the done thing to bash him and call for his head on this forum now, so I'm probably in the minority these days, but the fact remains that Rslph has kept us in the PL for 4 seasons running despite having one of the weakest squads, the second lowest net spend in that time, and a team of coaching staff that the new owners have decided are not up to standard.

Maybe, just maybe, the board aren't as reactionary as the majority of this forum and they recognise that RH has the skills to manage the club in line with their expectations, and just needs to be given better tools (ie playing squad and coaching staff) to achieve that.

Jeez it’s definite Ralph is staying, as is JWP incidentally. New back room staff. Players leaving lined up already. I reckon a couple of signings/ loanees set up too. 
its fuckin obvious we are hitting the ground running. 

[Wade Garrett]

36 minutes ago, manji said:

Jeez it’s definite Ralph is staying, as is JWP incidentally. New back room staff. Players leaving lined up already. I reckon a couple of signings/ loanees set up too. 
its fuckin obvious we are hitting the ground running. 

I don’t think Ralph should stay, but a new coaching team could make a huge difference to him.

JWP staying is huge.  Hopefully all this is a sign that we have motivated owners, quite refreshing after Gao and Kat.

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I doubt that personally. If SR want to replace Ralph then now is the time to do it. Replacing his coaches in the hope he will leave of his own accord doesn't sound like sound forward planning to me.

I know it's the done thing to bash him and call for his head on this forum now, so I'm probably in the minority these days, but the fact remains that Rslph has kept us in the PL for 4 seasons running despite having one of the weakest squads, the second lowest net spend in that time, and a team of coaching staff that the new owners have decided are not up to standard.

Maybe, just maybe, the board aren't as reactionary as the majority of this forum and they recognise that RH has the skills to manage the club in line with their expectations, and just needs to be given better tools (ie playing squad and coaching staff) to achieve that.

I don't think you are in the minority tbh. Generally i'm always wary of vocal minorities shouting loudly when they're unhappy, particular if that side of the argument is the one that features a fair amount of harsh language as a substitute for concise arguments... (obviously that isn't everyone). Also one poll posted on what was basically the "sack Ralph" thread the day after a bad defeat doesn't mean much does it? Its about as biased a poll as you can get on a football forum 🤣.

Personally, i am also of the view that the club aren't not wrong to have kept him on. And i think most fans are still just about in the camp and won't argue with the club's decision when viewed on balance (tight though - could have gone either way And i reckon it was considered at board level!). And yeah, maybe we could have paid to sack him? and then gambled on a new manager? But would they have been as good as Ralph with the resources he's had, or as committed? Ralph is ultimately a known quantity and has been successful every season he has been here with limited resources.

Ultimately, i think we have the lowest net spend of all surviving prem teams since he's been at the club? - and we haven't been in a relegation scrap under him in that time. So the abuse he gets from some is not really warranted for me. Looking at it from a squad quality perspective - I reckon most of us would have taken any of Pope, Mee, tarkowski, Cornet, Mcneil, and Weghorst from Burnley's team and put them straight in our starting 11... And yet they're the team who went down and in reality got nowhere near saints.

His job fundamentally, has been to keep saints in the league with one of the weakest squads and minimal backing. He's done that every year plus delivered some memorable wins, runs, cup runs, and sadly some infamous defeats/ losing runs. But on balance, if he's being backed by the club then i think the fan's should get behind him as well, even if it is his last chance.

But saying all that, I don't think there are any saints' fans that thinks he can survive being backed this summer and then not delivering improvements next season. It does look like he is going to be backed in this window - both with improvements to the coaching setup, and also with funds to finally assemble a good team of his own choosing. On the one hand, that makes for potentially an exciting summer and season, but on the flip side it means there can be no more excuses if we're doing poorly by Christmas. And there will be pressure on him as a result of that - both to deliver improved results, and also to potentially blend in quite a few new players. The added risk with all that, is that it looks like we're going to go all in on youth players (i.e. the city academy players), and that could be risky if we do have a rocky start - regardless of which manager finishes the season.

Anyway, he's clearly staying for the time being, and in the meantime there is a new kit and lost of transfer dealings on the way.... i.e. silly season.

Therefore Love and light to all 😎



  

Edited 26 May, 2022 by Saint86

[Teddeer]

16 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Interesting that the feeling is that Ralph is resistant to it, I assume he doesn't want to see good people lose their jobs but surely he appreciates he needs some competent support around him, as it's simply not working. I'm sure he'd have loved to have replaced Rohl a few years back but we couldn't afford to do it.

Richard is just an analyst really, not a coach.

Ralph is probably worried the new owners will bring in some coaches with a bit about them who will question some of his team selections, tactics and decision making.

[Saint86]

6 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Ralph is probably worried the new owners will bring in some coaches with a bit about them who will question some of his team selections, tactics and decision making.

I heard they've been scouring this place for months in an effort to headhunt the perfect candidate. 

[Whitey Grandad]

38 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Ralph is probably worried the new owners will bring in some coaches with a bit about them who will question some of his team selections, tactics and decision making.

This might take some time...

[manji]

2 hours ago, Saint86 said:

I heard they've been scouring this place for months in an effort to headhunt the perfect candidate. 

Yep they have. Sports Republic have been here a while and their decisions are in action already.
incidentally I know a couple of Saints “ fans “ who have a visceral hatred of Ralph that goes right the way to the start. I’m not going to name them but it’s almost psychopathic.

[Smirking_Saint]

3 hours ago, Teddeer said:

Ralph is probably worried the new owners will bring in some coaches with a bit about them who will question some of his team selections, tactics and decision making.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, why would you bring in someone under him to pressure him into thinking about his tactics ? You either bring in a proper DoF or you give him the boot

They obviously for whatever reason have faith in Ralph (Im on the fence really, couldn't care less where we went at this point) and want to give him the 'help' he needs... quite why his coaches around him was never addressed by him in the first place is baffling really considering how important he seems to be by the footballing hierarchy at St Marys

Edited 26 May, 2022 by Smirking_Saint

[Teddeer]

1 hour ago, Smirking_Saint said:

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, why would you bring in someone under him to pressure him into thinking about his tactics ? You either bring in a proper DoF or you give him the boot

They obviously for whatever reason have faith in Ralph (Im on the fence really, couldn't care less where we went at this point) and want to give him the 'help' he needs... quite why his coaches around him was never addressed by him in the first place is baffling really considering how important he seems to be by the footballing hierarchy at St Marys

Just saying because I've heard Ralph is not that open to discussing things with his coaches. He seems to be a bit of an autocrat who likes to do everything his own way. Not very healthy if true and, of course, it may not be.

[Saint Garrett]

5 hours ago, Teddeer said:

Just saying because I've heard Ralph is not that open to discussing things with his coaches. He seems to be a bit of an autocrat who likes to do everything his own way. Not very healthy if true and, of course, it may not be.

Interestingly I got told he was never bothered about discussing anything with Davis, Watson and Fleming, and only ever really bothered about Kitzbichler’s opinion. 

[Smirking_Saint]

15 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

Interestingly I got told he was never bothered about discussing anything with Davis, Watson and Fleming, and only ever really bothered about Kitzbichler’s opinion. 

I mean… if true.. I have to wonder who it was the kept Davis et al around ?

Was it Semmens/Crocker insisting that they remain part of the staff ?

Was Ralph just happier to have a set of coaches under him that he could keep at arms length ?

Its all a bit odd really and Id have to question why a head coach wouldn’t want an experienced set of trusted coaches around him ?

[Suhari]

23 hours ago, manji said:

Yep they have. Sports Republic have been here a while and their decisions are in action already.
incidentally I know a couple of Saints “ fans “ who have a visceral hatred of Ralph that goes right the way to the start. I’m not going to name them but it’s almost psychopathic.

That's interesting. Curious whether these 'fans', are actual fans, or posters who appeared on here?

Edited 27 May, 2022 by Suhari

[Turkish]

37 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

I mean… if true.. I have to wonder who it was the kept Davis et al around ?

Was it Semmens/Crocker insisting that they remain part of the staff ?

Was Ralph just happier to have a set of coaches under him that he could keep at arms length ?

Its all a bit odd really and Id have to question why a head coach wouldn’t want an experienced set of trusted coaches around him ?

he doesn't appear to want experienced players on the pitch either. Made it clear that he prefers working with young players. Maybe hes a bit of a dictator who doesnt like being challenged.

[Whitey Grandad]

44 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

I mean… if true.. I have to wonder who it was the kept Davis et al around ?

Was it Semmens/Crocker insisting that they remain part of the staff ?

Was Ralph just happier to have a set of coaches under him that he could keep at arms length ?

Its all a bit odd really and Id have to question why a head coach wouldn’t want an experienced set of trusted coaches around him ?

Because they were under contract?

[david in sweden]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

he doesn't appear to want experienced players on the pitch either. Made it clear that he prefers working with young players.

Maybe he's a bit of a dictator who doesn't like being challenged.

You mean like Brian Clough or Alex Ferguson ?   Not many of that ilk around anymore .

Nowadays ..."Player power" would take them down in a season.

[Smirking_Saint]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Because they were under contract?

But is that a significant stumbling block ? I don’t know ?

I would imagine they aren’t on big wages, so is it just sentiment ? 

If it was me Id want my own trusted staff I think

[Turkish]

24 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

You mean like Brian Clough or Alex Ferguson ?   Not many of that ilk around anymore .

Nowadays ..."Player power" would take them down in a season.

Both of the managers you mention had plenty of experienced players in their teams 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Smirking_Saint said:

But is that a significant stumbling block ? I don’t know ?

I would imagine they aren’t on big wages, so is it just sentiment ? 

If it was me Id want my own trusted staff I think

You’d have to pay them even if they were on gardening leave. I suppose the thought was that they might as well contribute in some way.

[The Kraken]

2 hours ago, david in sweden said:

You mean like Brian Clough or Alex Ferguson ?   Not many of that ilk around anymore .

Nowadays ..."Player power" would take them down in a season.

Two poor examples.

Brian Clough in particular relied upon having a strong right hand man working alongside him. Peter Taylor is rightly remembered as being a major part of Clough’s success.

Alex Ferguson had a few number twos, and gave them a lot of responsibility to take the hands on coaching while Ferguson had an oversight role.

[david in sweden]

On 27/05/2022 at 20:56, The Kraken said:

Two poor examples.

Brian Clough in particular relied upon having a strong right hand man working alongside him. Peter Taylor is rightly remembered as being a major part of Clough’s success.

Alex Ferguson had a few number twos, and gave them a lot of responsibility to take the hands on coaching while Ferguson had an oversight role.

Of course , the managers doesn't do all the training, but is a strong voice in the dressing room and has the final say in player selection.

I never heard of a player who came out on top after an argument against Brian Clough, although he did a lot improve some player's performances.

Ferguson was a pretty dab hand with a hair dryer - wasn't he?....or was a bucket ?   His obstinate style showed up when he sold the teenage Pogba

for a pittance ...(because he had "an attitude" ) .....only for MU to but reluctantly buy him back some years later ....for £90 million.

A good manager should be a pragmatist and not a dictator.

[david in sweden]

On 27/05/2022 at 16:42, Turkish said:

he doesn't appear to want experienced players on the pitch either. Made it clear that he prefers working with young players. Maybe hes a bit of a dictator who doesnt like being challenged.

Whilst I agree with your comment Turkish.....

......younger players are " more teachable", whereas some experienced signings often bring their faults with them - and won't /can't lose them

and although most want game time, a few are too often satisfied sitting on the bench, get some occasional sub. time and waiting for their big salary.

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

Of course , the managers doesn't do all the training, but is a strong voice in the dressing room and has the final say in player selection.

I never heard of a player who came out on top after an argument against Brian Clough, although he did a lot improve some player's performances.

Ferguson was a pretty dab hand with a hair dryer - wasn't he?....or was a bucket ?   His obstinate style showed up when he sold the teenage Pogba

for a pittance ...(because he had "an attitude" ) .....only for MU to but reluctantly buy him back some years later ....for £90 million.

A good manager should be a pragmatist and not a dictator.

I’m sure it probably helped that clough and Ferguson were both incredibly successful managers with about 50 trophies between them. Ralph has lost more games 9-0 than trophies he’s won as a manager 

[david in sweden]

Just now, Turkish said:

I’m sure it probably helped that clough and Ferguson were both incredibly successful managers with about 50 trophies between them. Ralph has lost more games 9-0 than trophies he’s won as a manager 

 

Just now, Turkish said:

I’m sure it probably helped that clough and Ferguson were both incredibly successful managers with about 50 trophies between them. Ralph has lost more games 9-0 than trophies he’s won as a manager 

Agreed, but look at the playing staff Ralph has to work with.  The VvD windfall was squandered by (someone else) and we ended up with half-a dozen bad buys 

who weren't worth their salt, had long contracts on big salaries.  Ralph accepted there was little money to spend and the only real favours the club did him

was in buying Danny Ings and KWP.  As for the remainder ...we will see the " fall-out " during the summer, because we need at least half a new squad, and it won't

happen by buying / loaning talented " kids", or those labelled as " one for the future",  but players who command a starting place and are genuine "game changers".

We need to plan for yet another season avoiding "the drop zone"  .......and on recent form that looks very disturbing.  

[HKsaint]

Steve Clarke can get the better of Stuart Armstrong and Che Adam. 

[Badger]

1 hour ago, HKsaint said:

Steve Clarke can get the better of Stuart Armstrong and Che Adam. 

… against Armenia.

I’ve completed the sentence for you. 

[saintwbu]

2 hours ago, HKsaint said:

Steve Clarke can get the better of Stuart Armstrong and Che Adam. 

Also hardly plays Stuart Armstrong in any of the important games