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whelk

By whelk
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whelk

whelk

Posted
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Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 10:45, hypochondriac said:

This account of Musk definitely doing a Nazi salute is disputed.

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Could you highlight the difference from Benjii’s post with juxtaposition between the guy on the left and Musk on the right?

  • Like 1
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 10:51, whelk said:

Could you highlight the difference from Benjii’s post with juxtaposition between the guy on the left and Musk on the right?

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Is there any context where eit is possible to do a similar gesture and it not be construed as a Nazi salute? 

whelk

whelk

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 10:52, hypochondriac said:

Is there any context where eit is possible to do a similar gesture and it not be construed as a Nazi salute? 

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Maybe feeling for your heart beat and then rapidly needing to point to a pigeon?

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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 10:52, hypochondriac said:

Is there any context where eit is possible to do a similar gesture and it not be construed as a Nazi salute? 

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We're not here to do your explaining for you mate. 

  • Confused 1
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 10:54, whelk said:

Maybe feeling for your heart beat and then rapidly needing to point to a pigeon?

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Or maybe when you say my heart goes out to you and you pat your heart and gesture up to the crowd. Musk has denied it was a nazi salute, no one here is making a claim that he's a Nazi so there seems little reason for him to do one and then deny it. 

  • Like 1
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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 10:58, hypochondriac said:

Or maybe when you say my heart goes out to you and you pat your heart and gesture up to the crowd. Musk has denied it was a nazi salute, no one here is making a claim that he's a Nazi so there seems little reason for him to do one and then deny it. 

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That's dafter than daft.

People don't have to label him a nazi to highlight that he did a nazi salute. That he hasn't clarified his actions doesn't help his cause. 

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted

 

  On 22/01/2025 at 10:29, hypochondriac said:

The main trait of being a Nazi is being proudly and up front about supporting Jews. 

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Is he, literally, a "Nazi"? No, he's not literally a Nazi.

Did he proudly do a salute with Nazi / fascist connotations twice? Yes, clearly.

So I think that him not personally cranking up the gas chambers isn't really the issue here.

  • Like 2
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 22/01/2025 at 11:23, benjii said:

 

Is he, literally, a "Nazi"? No, he's not literally a Nazi.

Did he proudly do a salute with Nazi / fascist connotations twice? Yes, clearly.

So I think that him not personally cranking up the gas chambers isn't really the issue here.

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It's disputed by an awful lot of credible people including organisations such as the ADL. Many individuals do not consider it clear, not least because of the words he used immediately after doing it and the fact he is laughing at the idea that it was viewed as one. 

Edited by hypochondriac
egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 11:30, hypochondriac said:

It's disputed by an awful lot of credible people including organisations such as the ADL. Many individuals do not consider it clear, not least because of the words he used immediately after doing it and the fact he is laughing at the idea that it was viewed as one. 

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Ok, so some people agree with you, well done. That doesn't make them or you correct. 

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 12:35, egg said:

Ok, so some people agree with you, well done. That doesn't make them or you correct. 

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My point is that it isn't a settled issue like some are claiming. Equally because some people agree with you it doesn't make them or you correct. There's no comparison between what Musk did and Corbyn laying a wreath because there's no dispute that he actually did it. 

sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 10:58, hypochondriac said:

Or maybe when you say my heart goes out to you and you pat your heart and gesture up to the crowd. Musk has denied it was a nazi salute, no one here is making a claim that he's a Nazi so there seems little reason for him to do one and then deny it. 

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Do you really think that Musk would come out and say to everybody that it was a Nazi salute? Instead he said what you would expect someone to say when caught out. The man has well documented links with the far right. Whether it was an intentional or subliminal action, the man has just outed himself in plain sight. It is sweet of you to try and defend him though, just as you did with Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins a few years ago.  These people are like magnets to you aren’t they?

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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 12:47, hypochondriac said:

My point is that it isn't a settled issue like some are claiming. Equally because some people agree with you it doesn't make them or you correct. There's no comparison between what Musk did and Corbyn laying a wreath because there's no dispute that he actually did it. 

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It can't be a settled issue as people see it differently.

I fully agree on the highlighted part, but you seek to debate everything to the nth degree, seemingly not accepting that people do and can have differing opinions. I think it was a nazi salute, you don't, you seemingly don't believe he's a nazi, I don't have any thoughts on whether he is or isn't. Those differences of opinion do not need ongoing discussion and will solve nothing. 

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 13:00, sadoldgit said:

Do you really think that Musk would come out and say to everybody that it was a Nazi salute? Instead he said what you would expect someone to say when caught out. The man has well documented links with the far right. Whether it was an intentional or subliminal action, the man has just outed himself in plain sight. It is sweet of you to try and defend him though, just as you did with Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins a few years ago.  These people are like magnets to you aren’t they?

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So people are asking for him to clarify his actions, but if he does you wont believe what he says anyway. That's what you're saying isn't it. :lol:

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 13:03, egg said:

It can't be a settled issue as people see it differently.

I fully agree on the highlighted part, but you seek to debate everything to the nth degree, seemingly not accepting that people do and can have differing opinions. I think it was a nazi salute, you don't, you seemingly don't believe he's a nazi, I don't have any thoughts on whether he is or isn't. Those differences of opinion do not need ongoing discussion and will solve nothing. 

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Eh? Of course you are entitled to think it was a nazi salute, just as I am entitled to think you're wrong. The discussion continued because we've had a number of statements about that difference of opinion including that I'm far right, a far right apologist, that anyone who thinks it isn't a nazi salute is cowed by Musk's wealth, that believing it's not a nazi salute in some way disrespects Jews who died in the holocaust and that the ADL are compromised because they've been neutered by Trump. 

Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 10:54, whelk said:

Maybe feeling for your heart beat and then rapidly needing to point to a pigeon?

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Oh heck. I was on a call to my doctor this morning, and heart rate was discussed, while pointing out the pigeons on the back wall to my feline overlord.

I've spoken to 2 neighbours since, and didn't pick up on any hostility.  But I'm now concerned about them misconstruing what I was doing. Anything from Nazi salute, fascist salute to imitating Musk.

  • Haha 1
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 13:00, sadoldgit said:

Do you really think that Musk would come out and say to everybody that it was a Nazi salute? Instead he said what you would expect someone to say when caught out. The man has well documented links with the far right. Whether it was an intentional or subliminal action, the man has just outed himself in plain sight. It is sweet of you to try and defend him though, just as you did with Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins a few years ago.  These people are like magnets to you aren’t they?

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I didn't realise you could be a subliminal nazi and do an inadvertent nazi salute. Freaky stuff. 

  • Confused 1
Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 13:03, egg said:

It can't be a settled issue as people see it differently.

I fully agree on the highlighted part, but you seek to debate everything to the nth degree, seemingly not accepting that people do and can have differing opinions. I think it was a nazi salute, you don't, you seemingly don't believe he's a nazi, I don't have any thoughts on whether he is or isn't. Those differences of opinion do not need ongoing discussion and will solve nothing. 

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Well said Egg. Hypo has his sources, we have ours https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/musk-nazi-salute-germany-holocaust-michel-friedman-b2684006.html?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=related&utm_campaign=embed2

Alan Sugar reflecting what a lot of people think about Musk becoming a hindrance to Trump shortly now he’s had the money to win the election and getting the elbow https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/musk-trump-lord-sugar-apprentice-b2682614.html?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=related&utm_campaign=embed1

  • Like 1
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 13:16, Gloucester Saint said:

Well said Egg. Hypo has his sources, we have ours https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/musk-nazi-salute-germany-holocaust-michel-friedman-b2684006.html?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=related&utm_campaign=embed2

Alan Sugar reflecting what a lot of people think about Musk becoming a hindrance to Trump shortly now he’s had the money to win the election and getting the elbow https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/musk-trump-lord-sugar-apprentice-b2682614.html?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=related&utm_campaign=embed1

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So do you now accept that it's possible to disagree with you that Musk was doing a nazi salute without being 'cowed by Musk's wealth' or that believibg that is not an insult to Jewish people who died in concentration camps? Glad we can clear that up it's possible to have a difference of opinion without the opposing view being bad or evil in some way. 

egg

egg

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 22/01/2025 at 13:12, hypochondriac said:

I didn't realise you could be a subliminal nazi and do an inadvertent nazi salute. Freaky stuff. 

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Me and others are merely commenting on Musk's actions. His intentions and beliefs are unknown, yet you assume them. 

Edited by egg
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 22/01/2025 at 13:23, egg said:

Me and others are merely commenting on Musk's actions. His intentions and beliefs are unknown, yet you assume them. 

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I was replying to soggy not you. I haven't commented on his beliefs. 

Edited by hypochondriac
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 13:24, egg said:

For comparison, please show the starting point and the movement. Thanks. 

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i dont have them but if people wanted to they could interperate these to be exactly like this picture. 

image.jpeg.b4ca34ad1fd538b52fac14fdad3d1087.jpeg

egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 13:27, Turkish said:

i dont have them but if people wanted to they could interperate these to be exactly like this picture. 

image.jpeg.b4ca34ad1fd538b52fac14fdad3d1087.jpeg

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That's a stretch. Musk started at the chest and thrust out aggressively.  That was with meaning. Twice. If, for example, someone starts a salute at neck or chest height it's potentially very different in it's meaning. 

  • Like 2
egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 13:26, hypochondriac said:

I was replying to soggy not you. I haven't commented on his beliefs. 

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Then what are you banging on about? And it's a forum, I'll comment on your posts regardless of who you intend them for. DM SoG if you want a chat with just him.

  • Confused 1
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 13:31, egg said:

Then what are you banging on about? And it's a forum, I'll comment on your posts regardless of who you intend them for. DM SoG if you want a chat with just him.

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I was replying to his point that Musk potentially did a subliminal nazi salute. Learn to read. 

  • Haha 1
Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 22/01/2025 at 13:38, Turkish said:

David Bowie at it. 

 

image.jpeg.5900b3e1247d016baee2b3c4aa9497b3.jpeg

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That was deliberate though, he went through a weird phase 1976/77 where he had an imaginary character he was playing called Thin White Duke from the album Young Americans. Dropped it later in 1977 when he moved from California to West Berlin and got off the drugs which he was on big time. Don’t agree with him doing it either but very different context. In his mind he was playing a character who did admire the Nazis, warped as it is. Claimed it was different to his real views but suspect he just got sober off the coke. Musk wasn’t playing a character. Or if he was that hasn’t emerged.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thin_White_Duke

Edited by Gloucester Saint
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 13:45, Gloucester Saint said:

That was deliberate though, he went through a weird phase 1976/77 where he had an imaginary character he was playing called Thin White Duke from the album Young Americans. Dropped it later in 1977 when he moved from California to West Berlin and got off the drugs which he was on big time. Don’t agree with him doing it either but very different context. In his mind he was playing a character who did admire the Nazis, warped as it is. Claimed it was different to his real views but suspect he just got sober off the coke. Musk wasn’t playing a character. Or if he was that hasn’t emerged.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thin_White_Duke

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thought he admitted it it was down to the amount of drugs he was doing? Maybe Musk had been smashing the powder backstage too and can put it down to that.

  • Like 1
Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 13:23, hypochondriac said:

So do you now accept that it's possible to disagree with you that Musk was doing a nazi salute without being 'cowed by Musk's wealth' or that believibg that is not an insult to Jewish people who died in concentration camps? Glad we can clear that up it's possible to have a difference of opinion without the opposing view being bad or evil in some way. 

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I don’t think you are bad or evil, nor have we fallen out. You’ve just got a different opinion on what Musk did. Paying Robinson’s legal fees (ex-BNP) is certainly doubling down. Puts Nigel Farage in a corner, although not for long because I think like Sugar says Trump will elbow Musk out in 6 months. Plus Bannon is sniping in the background. Trump is the lead singer but he doesn’t write the MAGA tunes, Steve Bannon et al do, Trump performs them.

  • Like 1
Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 13:41, Holmes_and_Watson said:

 

Did Bowie not actually fall into such thinking for a while, based he said on what he was reading?

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He did. 

Eric Clapton definitely did as well, big fan of Enoch Powell back in ‘76. Had a concert rant shouting  “Get the w*gs out. Get the c**ns out. Keep Britain white.” 

The Beatles even worked on a song called “Immigration” back in 69 which had dodgy lyrics (although having recently  seen it on film, as opposed to reading the lyrics, it now looks more like a Alf Garnet piss take than a racist rant). 

  • Like 1
egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 13:51, Turkish said:

thought he admitted it it was down to the amount of drugs he was doing? Maybe Musk had been smashing the powder backstage too and can put it down to that.

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I think that's his only get out. Deliberate nazi salute, or an unconscious act as a result of a few lines and testosterone overload. Great options for the lad! 

  • Like 2
Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 22/01/2025 at 14:05, Lord Duckhunter said:

He did. 

Eric Clapton definitely did as well, big fan of Enoch Powell back in ‘76. Had a concert rant shouting  “Get the w*gs out. Get the c**ns out. Keep Britain white.” 

The Beatles even worked on a song called “Immigration” back in 69 which had dodgy lyrics (although having recently  seen it on film, as opposed to reading the lyrics, it now looks more like a Alf Garnet piss take than a racist rant). 

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Paul got into a bit of trouble on the other end of spectrum in 1972 with this tune of protest https://www.the-paulmccartney-project.com/1972/02/give-ireland-back-to-the-irish-banned/

The Clapton comments kick started the whole Rock Against Racism movement in the late 70s/early 80s. Gig at Birmingham of all places as well wasnt it? 

Edited by Gloucester Saint
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 13:52, Gloucester Saint said:

I don’t think you are bad or evil, nor have we fallen out. You’ve just got a different opinion on what Musk did. Paying Robinson’s legal fees (ex-BNP) is certainly doubling down. Puts Nigel Farage in a corner, although not for long because I think like Sugar says Trump will elbow Musk out in 6 months. Plus Bannon is sniping in the background. Trump is the lead singer but he doesn’t write the MAGA tunes, Steve Bannon et al do, Trump performs them.

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Doubling down on what? He clearly has a belief that Robinson is being unjustly persecuted for talking about the government and about rape gangs. Musk is wrong but he obviously considers it a good way to continue his beef with Labour who he obviously dislikes. 

trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
  On 22/01/2025 at 14:09, egg said:

So who other than Hypo thinks that the Musk nazi salute wasn't? 

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Permission to sit on the fence given I don't know one way or the other and feel it would be ilogical to make an aribtrary guess just to please the internet football forum fraternity.... ;)

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