Burnley 2-0 Saints - Match Thread

[trousers]

5 minutes ago, TWar said:

Broja has done so poorly for so long and I'm honestly amazed how most people aren't seeing this.

I would venture that the majority of posters on here would acknowledge that Broja has been in poor form since his purple patch earlier in the season (when most pundits were raving about him). How about naming, say, 3 posters who "aren't seeing this"...?

Edited 21 April, 2022 by trousers

[Lord Duckhunter]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

There are a couple of things to Broja that you're not quite seeing.

1 - Teams aren't stupid. They know his strengths now and they will double up and have cover so he can't burst away like he did, so he has to come up with different aspects to his game. And as a team (notably the number 10's) need to support and provide for him better, a 20 year old kid can't keep making goals himself.

2 - He's young, he's played a lot of games and young players dip more extreme than experienced pro's. 

I think most people have seen enough to know that the raw attributes are there, but he's struggling because teams know about him know - it's up to him and the team around him to help evolve his game further, which he can do.

Armstrong on the other hand has shown that he has nothing apart from a kick and run approach, which will never be enough at this level.

This should be the final post on the subject. Summed it up perfectly. 

[Saint Matty 76]

3 minutes ago, Micky said:

That is a long term project, very long term.  We need goals now. 

Why? It's also not like Broja is getting them either.

Edited 21 April, 2022 by Saint Matty 76

[TWar]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

There are a couple of things to Broja that you're not quite seeing.

1 - Teams aren't stupid. They know his strengths now and they will double up and have cover so he can't burst away like he did, so he has to come up with different aspects to his game. And as a team (notably the number 10's) need to support and provide for him better, a 20 year old kid can't keep making goals himself.

2 - He's young, he's played a lot of games and young players dip more extreme than experienced pro's. 

I think most people have seen enough to know that the raw attributes are there, but he's struggling because teams know about him know - it's up to him and the team around him to help evolve his game further, which he can do.

Armstrong on the other hand has shown that he has nothing apart from a kick and run approach, which will never be enough at this level.

1 - Che is our top scorer, there is no way teams are deliberately letting him through to double up on Broja. I agree defenders have figured him out and don't get touch tight so much anymore to avoid being ran at, problem is that is super effective as running at players is one of his only strengths and he is well below par at most else

2 - Yeah, he's young, but what is a dip at this point and what was just a hot streak near the start? Also, he is a loan player, why the hell are we playing a player who is clearly well below the desired standard? I don't care if he's young, developing him nets us sweet fuck all. We are hamstringing ourselves by having this player in our side.

Armstrong has also been poor and if we went into next season with him starting I'd be just as concerned if not more so, but they aren't the two only options. If we truly have £25m-£30m to play with we have to aim higher than Broja.

[Dusic]

Anyway, away from all this Broja nonsense, better for us if Burnley stay up and Everton go down so lets hope this shitshow is a big contributor to that at least.

Edited 21 April, 2022 by Dusic

[Micky]

4 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

I could have saved myself a *lot* of typing, if only I could summarise as well as you. 😊

I know mate, that 'performance' demands very little real analysis, hence I kept it brief..!

[trousers]

7 minutes ago, Dman said:

Not the best players but have a lot of heart. 
 

in thier position I’d rather those than any of ours. 

How did "having a lot of heart" help Burnley out earlier in the season when they were performing much worse than us?

[kevdoh]

25 minutes ago, TWar said:

That's bullshit, he put out a statement saying he doesn't have a Facebook through an official source.

He's never getting a game there in a million years. They think lukakus shit and barely gets a game at moment. Imagine getting rid of Lukaku and broja is replacement 🤣 

[Dman]

4 minutes ago, trousers said:

I would venture that the majority of posters on here would acknowledge that Broja has been in poor form since his purple patch earlier in the season (when most pundits were raving about him). How about naming, say, 3 posters who "aren't seeing this"...?

Yep. Perhaps it’s not that we can’t see it, it’s just Because we’re not blaming him for our poor run, where everyone has been poor. 

[Dman]

Just now, trousers said:

How did "having a lot of heart" help Burnley out earlier in the season when they were performing much worse than us?

‘In their position’ being the key phrase (I.e relegation battle)… come on, you’re better than that, sir. 

[TWar]

9 minutes ago, trousers said:

I would venture that the majority of posters on here would acknowledge that Broja has been in poor form since his purple patch earlier in the season (when most pundits were raving about him). How about naming, say, 3 posters who "aren't seeing this"...?

Turkish, DMan, Sarisbury saint. Two of which said he's a great player, miles above us, who is just dipping in form because he is so far above us that he doesn't want to try.

As for the rest of posters, yeah people seem to be in a consensus that he is in bad form but I swear only like 1 or 2 posters even mention him in these post loss discussions. As if having a striker that has scored 2 goals since Boxing day isn't holding us back. I have no idea why, people weren't like it for Ings, Pelle, Mane, etc. Are we just being nice because he's young, because being young doesn't win us points.

Adam Armstrong failed to score in one match against City and people were lining up to call him shit. Broja doesn't manage against Watford, Newcastle, Villa, Burnley, and many other mediocre teams in the last month or two and people don't say shit, whats going on?

Edited 21 April, 2022 by TWar

[Turkish]

9 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

There are a couple of things to Broja that you're not quite seeing.

1 - Teams aren't stupid. They know his strengths now and they will double up and have cover so he can't burst away like he did, so he has to come up with different aspects to his game. And as a team (notably the number 10's) need to support and provide for him better, a 20 year old kid can't keep making goals himself.

2 - He's young, he's played a lot of games and young players dip more extreme than experienced pro's. 

I think most people have seen enough to know that the raw attributes are there, but he's struggling because teams know about him know - it's up to him and the team around him to help evolve his game further, which he can do.

Armstrong on the other hand has shown that he has nothing apart from a kick and run approach, which will never be enough at this level.

Missing the sort of stuff stats and spreadsheets don’t reply you, yes?

[nta786]

Ralph mentioned in the interview I think, admittedly whilst looking angry and frustrated, that our xG in the 2nd half as better.

I’m still team Ralph here, let’s see what the transfer budget is like this summer with this new ownership, I think whilst his style of play is admirable it’s not something you can do with inept players, he needs to adapt with what he has. 

 

[Micky]

8 minutes ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

Why? It's also not like Broja is getting them either.

Agreed, that is a medium term project.  We need goals now. 

[Saint Matty 76]

Just now, Micky said:

Agreed, that is a medium term project.  We need goals now. 

I still don't know why though? If this isn't the time to try a player that'll likely be here next year over somebody who won't, then when is? 

I agree as much as everybody else that AA has looked shit, but I can't see why we're not giving him a run at this stage when we don't necessarily need goals.

[maysie]

Just now, TWar said:

It's a nothing term project for us, he'll be here for 5 more games and then hopefully will return to the Chelsea reserves where he belongs.

Did he do something unspeakable to your family mate as that is really harsh

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

As if having a striker that has scored 2 goals since Boxing day isn't holding us back. I have no idea why, people weren't like it for Ings, Pelle, Mane, etc. Are we just being nice because he's young, because being young doesn't win us points.

I was thinking that it would be easier to judge if he got a decent amount of chances and support. That support also creating some space for him, now our opponents know more of his game. He, and nearly everyone else is on poor form, and we're struggling across the board up front.

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

Normally give a bit of thought to what I've seen but today all I can come up with is "rubbish". Crap all round (bar Forster). Fully expecting a dire, uninspiring end to the season with half arsed performances all round.

[Lighthouse]

Give it a rest with the Broja stuff, Jesus. 🙄

[The Kraken]

2 minutes ago, TWar said:

He's just a bang average player, and a bang average player I'm sick of watching strut about the pitch doing fuck all while we struggle with basically 10 men.

You said yourself not very long ago at all that you think Saints should spend £25M on him.

Sounds a lot to spend for someone who is bang average.

[Micky]

4 minutes ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

I still don't know why though? If this isn't the time to try a player that'll likely be here next year over somebody who won't, then when is? 

I agree as much as everybody else that AA has looked shit, but I can't see why we're not giving him a run at this stage when we don't necessarily need goals.

Yeah I get your point.  To be honest I only want goals now to win some bloody games, but I do worry for us if we go into next season with this 'strikeforce'.  

[TWar]

Just now, maysie said:

In other words he's not Adam Armstrong 

At this stage he's not Tella, he's not Redmond. We have multiple players I'm convinced if they had started almost every game since boxing day would come away with more than two goals. Hell Long has the same number of goals as him in the league since mid Jan.

[TWar]

Just now, The Kraken said:

You said yourself not very long ago at all that you think Saints should spend £25M on him.

Sounds a lot to spend for someone who is bang average.

Yeah, he's dipped like crazy since then. Now I think £15m is too much.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

Give it a rest with the Broja stuff, Jesus. 🙄

Since when are we not allowed to criticise one of our players after a loss when they did fuck all? If it seems like I do it a lot maybe he does fuck all a lot.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

6 minutes ago, nta786 said:

Ralph mentioned in the interview I think, admittedly whilst looking angry and frustrated, that our xG in the 2nd half as better.

Was there context on what the second half xG was better than? Our first half xG? The xG of 2 goal ahead opponents, who didn't need to attack, but who still looked most likely? The xG of a group of septuagenarian strangers who had never seen a ball before? As long as he's happy he finally brought on Adams to raise it up a bit, then I guess that's a positive 😃

[nta786]

Broja is the least of our worries tonight.

Can we talk more about Lyanco missing a header in the first half which whilst offside, shows he has a lot to turn. Also at end of the game naively tried to out run a fresh Vydra and lost the ball. 

Or how about Valery who was out of position many a times?

Romeu was also terrible, other than his missed headers there were a lot of passes he mishit when we were on the attack. We really need an alternative enforcer type player to him when he goes off the boil.

JWP really should have aggressively spoken to the ref that he had 2 hands on him from the Burnley player who scored their 2nd goal? Why can’t we be more in the refs face. 

Not to forget there were 2 times where a Burnley feigns a head injury which the ref signals for and then the ball goes back to them?

In the 2nd half Jay-Rod went down when we were on the attack and then as soon as they got the ball back got up all fine? 
 

I wish we can learn somethings from the manual of shithousery, annoys me how meek we are. 

[maysie]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

At this stage he's not Tella, he's not Redmond. We have multiple players I'm convinced if they had started almost every game since boxing day would come away with more than two goals. Hell Long has the same number of goals as him in the league since mid Jan.

I'm not disagreeing that he is playing poor at the moment (and has been for a while). However, you are going way over the top with your criticism. My guess is you want to be so right about your early assertion that AA had more potential that in your mind that is all that matters now.

[Baird of the land]

I’d prefer to see someone else starting rather than broja at the moment(even if I do think he has potential)

However today I have some sympathy as for over an hour he was isolated by a manager determined to lose to Burnley at all costs.

[Lighthouse]

3 minutes ago, TWar said:

Since when are we not allowed to criticise one of our players after a loss when they did fuck all? If it seems like I do it a lot maybe he does fuck all a lot.

Since you and Dman are incapable of not turning every thread into a petulant squabble that the rest of us have to read. You’ve both made your point 100 times over, give it a rest.

[Dman]

Just now, Lighthouse said:

Since you and Dman are incapable of not turning every thread into a petulant squabble that the rest of us have to read. You’ve both made your point 100 times over, give it a rest.

Don’t bring me In to this. I’ve said I’m not getting involved with him tonight. It’s boring. 

[TWar]

1 minute ago, maysie said:

I'm not disagreeing that he is playing poor at the moment (and has been for a while). However, you are going way over the top with your criticism. My guess is you want to be so right about your early assertion that AA had more potential that in your mind that is all that matters now.

I have already admitted I overrated AA, would be interesting to see some of the "he's worth £60m", "he's better than Lukaku", "he is CL quality", "best young player since Gascoigne" peoples view now he has been so average for so long.

[TWar]

Just now, Lighthouse said:

Since you and Dman are incapable of not turning every thread into a petulant squabble that the rest of us have to read. You’ve both made your point 100 times over, give it a rest.

I'm criticising Broja in a game where Broja was bad, I don't care what DMan says, that should be fine. Any posts since then have been responses to others.

[ErwinK1961]

A manager that won’t pick his best XI and formation.

A bunch of bang average, mentally fragile players.

And a pair of cockwombles that derail every fcking thread going.

Whats not to love?

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 minute ago, maysie said:

I'm not disagreeing that he is playing poor at the moment (and has been for a while). However, you are going way over the top with your criticism. My guess is you want to be so right about your early assertion that AA had more potential that in your mind that is all that matters now.

I thought all the posts auto typed Broja into them and, like the emojis, they are fidgety to replace. 🙂

I'd look at his contributions at the end of the season. He had a great spell when he was an unknown and we were playing dynamic, pressing stuff. It's a lot more inconsistent for lots of players. Is 6 goals in a season a concern? Yes. But more so when no one else is getting many more. We're not going to know if AA, Tella or Long would have got more. Presumably Broja has shown it in training, and is considered the best fit for the tactic. When/if Broja goes it's only Adams who looks likely to score, and he's got, is it 1 more league goal? It's maybe not a Broja issue.

[Bad Wolf]

I see Forster has escaped criticism YET AGAIN.

Made two good saves and you can't take anything away from that.  The others were saves you'd expect him to make, zero control over his penalty area, the second goal was down to his shocking positioning and his kicking was some of the worst I've ever seen from a keeper.

If McCarthy had had that same game, he'd get a 6/10 at absolute best but no, yeah, Forster is amazing, all hail Forster. Give him a 20 year contract or something.

[Warriorsaint]

42 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

This should be the final post on the subject. Summed it up perfectly. 

Pony

[Holmes_and_Watson]

4 minutes ago, Instant Classic said:

I see Forster has escaped criticism YET AGAIN.

Made two good saves and you can't take anything away from that.  The others were saves you'd expect him to make, zero control over his penalty area, the second goal was down to his shocking positioning and his kicking was some of the worst I've ever seen from a keeper.

If McCarthy had had that same game, he'd get a 6/10 at absolute best but no, yeah, Forster is amazing, all hail Forster. Give him a 20 year contract or something.

I'll need to take another look at the second. I didn't think he had a chance with it.

[The Kraken]

Just now, Holmes_and_Watson said:

I'll need to take another look at the second. I didn't think he had a chance with it.

I think there’s a decent argument that Cork was interfering with play while being offside. VAR disagreed but in my mind it’s offside. Not saying FF was great, but it’s a weakness of the laws IMO.

[Bad Wolf]

Just now, Holmes_and_Watson said:

I'll need to take another look at the second. I didn't think he had a chance with it.

There were 3 players in front of him at his near post, it was essentially covered yet that's the one he chose to stand near. Nobody on the far post, completely empty and he just decided to let it remain that way.

Yet another error. Absolutely baffling how anyone rates him. Yes he's better than McCarthy but if that's our benchmark, we're in serious trouble.

[Yozzman]

20 minutes ago, Dman said:

Don’t bring me In to this. I’ve said I’m not getting involved with him tonight. It’s boring. 

You are delusional if you think you are not involved. Why don't  you try shutting the fuck up every once in a while . The same goes for TWar.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

5 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

I think there’s a decent argument that Cork was interfering with play while being offside. VAR disagreed but in my mind it’s offside. Not saying FF was great, but it’s a weakness of the laws IMO.

I thought offside too. Also that JWP got clambered over, but I saw some posts that suggest otherwise.

[Yozzman]

6 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

I'll need to take another look at the second. I didn't think he had a chance with it.

People talk about JWP being stronger but FF should have made a much better attempt to punch a cross 6 yards out. Once it has been headed he had no chance. 

[Roboze]

Think people need to stop pinning their hopes on Broja, hes still a kid with ALOT to learn, and in all honesty will unlikely be here next season.

 

[kevdoh]

3 minutes ago, Yozzman said:

People talk about JWP being stronger but FF should have made a much better attempt to punch a cross 6 yards out. Once it has been headed he had no chance. 

Don't get the criticism of jwp being weak in that instance. He had a big lump clambering over his back and using his shoulders as a bump up. he had no chance of jumping or doing anything really it was a blatant foul. Yeah we were shite but some of the decisions you see nowadays just make you think is there any point? Football is corrupt and rotten to the core. Can't even look forward to a world cup pissing it up in the sun in beer gardens cos of money and corruption. And shame on every player that's got involved in politics in football taking the moral high ground that turns up and plays in that shit show

[DT]

Predictable as In predicted bag of shite result

[John Boy Saint]

……….Nope! ………..can’t be arsed……… night

[Holmes_and_Watson]

6 minutes ago, John Boy Saint said:

……….Nope! ………..can’t be arsed……… night

Good night John Boy

Good night Jim Bob

Good night Ben

After another torrid defensive display, Saints bring in the Walton's back line from the MLS... 🙂

[woodsaint1]

1 hour ago, Instant Classic said:

I see Forster has escaped criticism YET AGAIN.

Made two good saves and you can't take anything away from that.  The others were saves you'd expect him to make, zero control over his penalty area, the second goal was down to his shocking positioning and his kicking was some of the worst I've ever seen from a keeper.

If McCarthy had had that same game, he'd get a 6/10 at absolute best but no, yeah, Forster is amazing, all hail Forster. Give him a 20 year contract or something.

Alright Alex, calm down fs.

Yes he was a bit ropey at times, but the protection he had was literally non existent. There were much more alarming performances in front of FF.

After the Arsenal performance and other recent games, FF deserves some slack

[skintsaint]

One of the most predictable results of the season. Next.

[DT]

Sean Dyche is still available