Burnley 2-0 Saints - Match Thread

[JRM]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

Terrible, Terrible, Terrible. Awful. 

Equally as bad as West Brom last year, if not worse. We looked out of our depth, against Burnley.

Burnley have scored the least goals and created less chances than anyone else in the league, yet they could have had 4 or 5 against us. It's horrific and that sort of performance needs a complete root and branch reset because that isn't just 'a bad day', that was fundamentally flawed all the way through it.

We know we've got shortcomings and players of very low quality in certain areas, but tactically that was a true horror show. Something for Halloween viewing.

Bottom 4 clubs have all beaten us this season,  that's how bad we can be 

[Viking Saint]

7 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

A comment on the BBC;

"Football historians will come, in time, to study the "Southampton effect" winning odd games against teams, never going on a run, and yet always being comfortably mid table with no one quite sure how they got there.."

It's funny because it's absolutely bang on

[Disco Stu]

Did Ralph ever actually change the shape because it sure didn't look like it? It clearly wasn't working. We created no chances against Arsenal and we created very few today. The few we did have were huge opportunities ruined by absolute howlers from Romeu and Adams. Awful performance. Ralph is great when he gets the initial setup right. If he has to adjust during the 90 minutes... well he won't.

[aintforever]

Well that was fucking garbage. 3 at the back obviously wasn’t working yet we persisted with it the whole game, fucking useless.

[WestMidSaint]

FF only one to come out with credit. He made some very good saves which make up from him being a bit flappy with crosses. 
 

I’ve been a big fan of OR for a long time but those misses were very poor and the first in particular would’ve made it a different game. 
 

forgot Broja was on for a long time in 2nd half. 
 
Every season I hope our poor finish will inspire more summer business. I live in hope…

[Matthew Le God]

Just now, aintforever said:

Well that was fucking garbage. 3 at the back obviously wasn’t working yet we persisted with it the whole game, fucking useless.

It was not a back five for the whole game. When Elyounoussi and Armstrong went off, it was a back four and Walker-Peters went into midfield.

[Sarisbury Saint]

2 minutes ago, TWar said:

Still happy with Broja?

Still happy with Ralph ?

[UpweySaint]

3 minutes ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

Let’s not get too dramatic about a game that literally means nothing.

We’ve stayed up again with absolutely zero issue with no investment and some good days against the big teams. With our structure, we can’t ask for much more.

There’s incredibly obvious areas for us to improve this Summer, hopefully the new owners allow it to happen.

I agree with the sentiment but that was a dire watch and we seem to be drifting since our good run earlier in the year. I just don't get what the plan was today and that worries me more than us playing a high press and suffering the occasional spanking to top class opposition.

Investment in the playing squad is needed in the summer but we've been at our best when we have a clear way of playing and it seems to have gone missing. I worry if Ralph/his ability to progress the players has gone stale which I say with a heavy heart because he's up there with my favourite saints managers and is a classy bloke.

When Valery is starting over Salisu I just don't get what Ralph is thinking ...

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Gutless, clueless, no ambition or leadership. Not sure Ralph knows how to solve these deficiencies. 

[hackedoff]

The biggest mistake Burnley could make is to believe that they have turned the corner with this result.

The biggest mistake Saints could make is to persevere with this manager.

[Toussaint]

8 minutes ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

Let’s not get too dramatic about a game that literally means nothing.

We’ve stayed up again with absolutely zero issue, with no investment and some good days against the big teams. With our structure, we can’t ask for much more.

There’s incredibly obvious areas for us to improve this Summer, hopefully the new owners allow it to happen.

How does a league game mean nothing, that’s so wrong, people play sports for absolutely no reward and still have an absolute desire to win, these are millionaires with millions watching and thousands actively supporting yet you think it’s ok they don’t give a shit? I’m not having it

[Whitey Grandad]

Burnley 2 Statues 0

[Convict Colony]

These last few games have been as enjoyable as wanking with a pin cushion glove on.

I dont know who to blame so everyone is utter shit.

 

 

[Matthew Le God]

1 minute ago, Disco Stu said:

Did Ralph ever actually change the shape because it sure didn't look like it? 

It was not a back five for the whole game. When Elyounoussi and Armstrong went off, it was a back four and Walker-Peters went into midfield and it became a 4222/442.

[geoffnut]

What a gutless performance, only Forster deserved his wages. Enough is enough Ralph.

 

[Saint Matty 76]

Just now, UpweySaint said:

I agree with the sentiment but that was a dire watch and we seem to be drifting since our good run earlier in the year. I just don't get what the plan was today and that worries me more than us playing a high press and suffering the occasional spanking to top class opposition.

Investment in the playing squad is needed in the summer but we've been at our best when we have a clear way of playing and it seems to have gone missing. I worry if Ralph/his ability to progress the players has gone stale which I say with a heavy heart because he's up there with my favourite saints managers and is a classy bloke.

When Valery is starting over Salisu I just don't get what Ralph is thinking ...

I 100% agree. I said it before the game that the lineup was wrong in my eyes and it proved apparent immediately.

I think it's harsh to say he's gone stale when we're as comfortable as we've been in years. I know we didn't win but we'd have literally gone up to 9th.

[Saint Matty 76]

1 minute ago, Toussaint said:

How does a league game mean nothing, that’s so wrong, people play sports for absolutely no reward and still have an absolute desire to win, these are millionaires with millions watching and thousands actively supporting yet you think it’s ok they don’t give a shit? I’m not having it

A team who need to win are always going to have somewhat of a competitive edge though, that's just obvious? I know it's not nice but an already safe team falling off the ball with 5/6 games to go is hardly unprecedented. 

[Toussaint]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Burnley 2 Statues 0

I know , I seed it

[obelisk]

Let's face it. In the last 10 games or so Saints have completely lost their way. This is relegation form and a lucky win against Arsenal cannot disguise it. Carry on like this and we'll be in trouble next season.

[S-Clarke]

5 minutes ago, JRM said:

Bottom 4 clubs have all beaten us this season,  that's how bad we can be 

It sort of goes back to the mentality thing against doesn't it. I thought we'd shrugged that off a bit and got a bit more steel to us, but tonight was as pussy a display as you'll see from a PL team. 

[Baird of the land]

2 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

It was not a back five for the whole game. When Elyounoussi and Armstrong went off, it was a back four and Walker-Peters went into midfield and it became a 4222/442.

Yes the brief spell where he played our best rb out of position before he reverted to 5 at the back by subbing him off for another RB. He's a tactical genius.

[Saint Matty 76]

Just now, obelisk said:

Let's face it. In the last 10 games or so Saints have completely lost their way. This is relegation form and a lucky win against Arsenal cannot disguise it. Carry on like this and we'll be in trouble next season.

We heard the exact same thing last year and haven't had an issue. Even after selling our best player and leading goalscorer and replacing him with a kid.

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Im going to come clean and admit I only posted that to see how long it’s take him to reply and make a dig at Broja 🤣

Mate you didn't need to post anything about Broja to make me complain. He was absolutely anonymous again. Surely even his most ardent supporters have to think this guy isn't worth it. 6 goals this season, might add one or two more. 2 in the league since boxing day. No thanks.

[S-Clarke]

4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

It was not a back five for the whole game. When Elyounoussi and Armstrong went off, it was a back four and Walker-Peters went into midfield and it became a 4222/442.

It was a mess, all over. I noticed the tweaks here and there, but it was flawed at all stages.

Stupid waste of a game. Play the right players in the right shape from the start and it's probably a different outcome.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

That was poor. Out run, out tackled, out thought and out fought. Poor right across the team, with only Forster getting credit from the game.

Burnley might have something to fight for, in terms of just staying in the division. But that we have nothing to fight for is often self inflicted, and no excuse for that level of performance.

I have a concern that Ralph doubts his tactics. Beaten so easily by Chelsea, where Tuchal gave a how to guide for it in a couple of paragraphs. Getting a result against Arsenal didn't mean we had to approach this game in the same way. It took Burnley all of 5 mins to adapt and get the better of us.

Broja needs support. He needs Adams for that, or at least more options from midfield. 3 at the back for most of the game was a waste, and and questionable to begin with,  we never looked like getting back into it.

Slumping towards a lower than mid table finish. Pretty much where my start of season expectations were. But that doesn't make it any easier to watch.

Edited 21 April, 2022 by Holmes_and_Watson

[Toussaint]

3 minutes ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

A team who need to win are always going to have somewhat of a competitive edge though, that's just obvious? I know it's not nice but an already safe team falling off the ball with 5/6 games to go is hardly unprecedented. 

That is true but that’s  different to saying the game means nothing, it should mean something. In Burnley’s position they are also liable to collapse, but we made it so easy 

Edited 21 April, 2022 by Toussaint

[Mr Saints]

The first half was dreadful. Burnley must have been delighted when they saw our fairies show up, a guaranteed 3 points.

[Dman]

Just now, TWar said:

Mate you didn't need to post anything about Broja to make me complain. He was absolutely anonymous again. Surely even his most ardent supporters have to think this guy isn't worth it. 6 goals this season, might add one or two more. 2 in the league since boxing day. No thanks.

Fuck me, don’t we know about that. 

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, Dman said:

Fuck me, don’t we know about that. 

You happy with him then mate? You wanna roll into next season with a 6 goal forward who has scored 2 league goals in almost 4 months?

Edited 21 April, 2022 by TWar

[Matthew Le God]

1 minute ago, Baird of the land said:

Yes the brief spell where he played our best rb out of position before he reverted to 5 at the back by subbing him off for another RB. He's a tactical genius.

Nope, Livramento also played in midfield like Walker-Peters was doing when he came off. It was a 4222/442 fir the entire time after the subs were made.

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 minutes ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

 I know it's not nice but an already safe team falling off the ball with 5/6 games to go is hardly unprecedented. 

Fucking hell,  Sundays going to be like a frigging friendly then. 

[Paul Chuckle]

Why didn't Ralph change the shape from 5 at the back? 

[Dman]

Just now, TWar said:

You happy with him then mate? You wanna roll into next season with a 6 goal forward who has scored 2 league goals in almost 5 months?

If he is available for a reasonable price, 25-30m then absolutely. 
 

Id rather we signed him than kept Ralph. 

[Saints foreva]

Really shocking performance from the players and manager. Our form has been a disgrace and today's performance just showed why we take so many beatings under Ralph. 

For me, he's shown since he's been here that he has no idea how to stop us conceding for fun. We concede chances for fun. It cannot go on like this. 

This summer is a big one, we painfully need to strengthen our spine. We need a decent CB to displace Bednarek as well as a CDM to compete and potentially displace Romeu (who can be so bang average). 

[TWar]

Just now, Dman said:

If he is available for a reasonable price, 25-30m then absolutely. 
 

Id rather we signed him than kept Ralph. 

You'd spend £30m on a striker with 2 league goals since boxing day, 0 assists, and 6 goals all season? Christ. Seriously?

[CB Fry]

15 minutes ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

Let’s not get too dramatic about a game that literally means nothing.

We’ve stayed up again with absolutely zero issue, with no investment and some good days against the big teams. With our structure, we can’t ask for much more.

There’s incredibly obvious areas for us to improve this Summer, hopefully the new owners allow it to happen.

With every league place worth £2m and Ralph himself saying he wants to finish as high as possible to attract new players it is fucking ridiculous to say it is a game that means "literally nothing".

It's not really about this game, we've been terrible for weeks now.

[Baird of the land]

3 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Nope, Livramento also played in midfield like Walker-Peters was doing when he came off. It was a 4222/442 fir the entire time after the subs were made.

Livramento looked to be playing RB in a 5 to me. Even if it was a 4-2-2-2 why are you brining on a RB to play a 10 when you've got other options on the bench.

[Dman]

2 minutes ago, TWar said:

You'd spend £30m on a striker with 2 league goals since boxing day, 0 assists, and 6 goals all season? Christ. Seriously?

Yep, only if he wants to be here though. Which at the minute it doesn’t look that way. (Why would he, we’re shit). 
 

We’ve seen what he can do, I’ve no doubt he will go on to be a top player somewhere. Doubt it’ll be here though. 

[saint michael]

I think it’s the nature of the losses and the complete capitulation and lack of tactics organisation and the manager histrionics on the line as if it’s a complete shock to him that really sickens me. I find myself now always waiting for the slide to happen and never let down by them.  
 

being in the prem is not the be all and end to me… I know I will get slated for that but seeing a side that looks half like they know what they should  be doing and capable of doing it would be an improvement. Change needed for me

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 minutes ago, TWar said:

You happy with him then mate? You wanna roll into next season with a 6 goal forward who has scored 2 league goals in almost 5 months?

You could say the same about Che’s first season. Oh no, you couldn’t actually, he only scored 4 goals all season and went 10 months without scoring. 

[Saint Matty 76]

7 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fucking hell,  Sundays going to be like a frigging friendly then. 

Stupid enough to have a ticket for that one too!

[aintforever]

Yep, Broja was shite, has been for a while. Send him back to Chelsea.

[TWar]

 

Just now, Lord Duckhunter said:

You could say the same about Che’s first season. Oh no, you couldn’t actually, he only scored 4 goals all season and went 10 months without scoring. 

Che didn't score much as he was benched for the vast majority. Broja plays every game.

Also Che got a bunch of chances and just didn't put them away, I think I can remember about 3 good chances Broja has had in the last month.

[CylonKing]

We seem to have been rubbish since the news broke about Ralph seeing out his contract and retiring. Is this the 'Strachan' effect all over again?

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, Dman said:

Yep, only if he wants to be here though. Which at the minute it doesn’t look that way. (Why would he, we’re shit). 
 

We’ve seen what he can do, I’ve no doubt he will go on to be a top player somewhere. Doubt it’ll be here though. 

If he, a guy who has scored 6 goals and 2 since boxing day, thinks he's too good for us and is wanting to move he is about to have a rude awakening. His output per game is worse than Obafemi and he ended up in the championship.

[woodsaint1]

What a shocker. Gutless, pathetic, abysmal, but entirely predictable given our position and recent run of form (FF heroics aside). Burnley wanted it and just steamrolled us.

Dont be playing that back three again. All are very average/poor CBs. Bailed out by FF on saturday but badly exposed tonight. For having three in there, I lost count of the amount of times Wieghorst and JRod had acres of space to control and turn. Get our best CB back in there, even with Stephens for the remainder of the season.

Burnley's first clean sheet in 9 games says it all. Pope was barely threatened, although Romeu needs to do better with both headers. Broja looks a shadow of the player from earlier in the season. And theres nothing more infuriating than the constant sidewards/backwards passing in the last 20 mins when we're meant to be chasing the game. What the fuck is that about.

We need wholesale changes in the summer. A new GK, CB, DM, AM, 2 CF is a must so hope there is plenty of investment from Dragan. Although I'm waiting on the usual crap about being needing to be patient in the market and looking for the right (cheap) deals. I'll be surpised if we spend anymore than 20 million - hopefully I'm wrong

 

[Dusic]

The 3 CBs doesnt work for us. Our weakest position is CB, so why pick one more than we need to?

We are at our best when we have two high energy strikers and get our full backs forward.

The 3 CBs takes away both of those and also nulifies Armstrong.

Poor selection tonight as well as performance. I think Ralph should have brought on Adams after about 30mins.

[Sarisbury Saint]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

 

Che didn't score much as he was benched for the vast majority. Broja plays every game.

Also Che got a bunch of chances and just didn't put them away, I think I can remember about 3 good chances Broja has had in the last month.

Was Che a lone striker aswell?

[Dman]

Just now, TWar said:

If he, a guy who has scored 6 goals and 2 since boxing day, thinks he's too good for us and is wanting to move he is about to have a rude awakening. His output per game is worse than Obafemi and he ended up in the championship.

We’re shit mate, absolutely fucking useless. 
 

You could stick the best strikers in the world up top for us and they’d struggle. 
 

It’s the manager who needs to go, not the 20 year old striker playing his first season in the prem. 

[Katalinic]

The only surprise is that anybody is surprised. Wholly predictable in every department.