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Current PL managers better than Ralph

whelk

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 13:20, TWar said:

Ralph objectively does know what formation he asked his team to play? Tuchel, not being in the tactics meetings, does not. 

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Fuck me, Stevie Wonder doesn’t attend  our team meetings, but even he can see how we’re going to play. 

  • Haha 7
TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 13:37, Sarisbury Saint said:

Trippier has been injured for the most part and the other signings are within our budget, so yes, Howe has turned them around.

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Bruno Guimaraes cost £38m which is almost double our record fee. So no, not within our budget whatsoever. Wood was £30m, again far above our record fee and double our rumoured cap.

This is absolutely incorrect.

TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 13:44, Sarisbury Saint said:

Absolutely this. Same 4222 tactics that teams have sussed.

it was clear after 10 minutes that we were going to get a battering, yet he waited until the game was lost:

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People said exactly this after the Liverpool loss, we then went on a fantastic run in January and February playing almost exclusively a 4222.

Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted

From the OP, I'd definitely want Guardiola in charge. Clearly the City board have been vetoing his purchase of Redmond, due to their abundance of riches in that position. This is the only way to see that dream team in action. 🙂

TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 14:53, Lord Duckhunter said:

13,901 posts, we must lose a fucking lot. Either that our you’re writing pony……again. 

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You post like crazy when we lose and have been around a while, not unreasonable. Also a number of people noticed you went when we had good form and yet a few losses and you are right back. Bit weird is all.

Sarisbury Saint

Sarisbury Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 14:22, TWar said:

Bruno Guimaraes cost £38m which is almost double our record fee. So no, not within our budget whatsoever. Wood was £30m, again far above our record fee and double our rumoured cap.

This is absolutely incorrect.

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Prices went up because it was Newcastle.

You seriously think Wood is worth £30m.

TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 15:10, Sarisbury Saint said:

Prices went up because it was Newcastle.

You seriously think Wood is worth £30m.

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Wood was a release clause, so the price didn't go up at all. And, to be honest, they got Trippier and Bruno Guimaraes for pretty reasonable fees. Both were linked to top clubs for decent money.

TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 10/04/2022 at 15:12, Sarisbury Saint said:

No we didn’t.

We often changed to a 442.

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When? Both Armstrong and Moi basically always play as 10s so any game either of them plays in is probably not a 442.

If anything the presence of those two was heavily linked to our upturn in form. We fiddled with a 442 occassionally with Redmond/Walcott/Djenepo at times this season but our best form was undeniably with our two 10s.

Edited by TWar
TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 15:20, The Kraken said:

We aren’t 😉

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Good point, hadn't noticed that had finished. One point off 10th then. I remember someone being laughed at preseason for claiming 10-14th was possible.

TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 15:20, Sarisbury Saint said:

Now 14th and sliding. Everton win their game in hand and we could end the season one place above the drop.

 

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We could, we could also get top 10, which we are one point off of, rather than 17th which we are 8 points off of.

Either way, right now, we are objectively outperforming the vast vast majority of expectations preseason, so it really hasn't been that shit has it?

Sarisbury Saint

Sarisbury Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 15:22, TWar said:

Good point, hadn't noticed that had finished. One point off 10th then. I remember someone being laughed at preseason for claiming 10-14th was possible.

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Anything is possible. But realistic fans predict lower which is now looking more likely.

TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 10/04/2022 at 15:27, Sarisbury Saint said:

Anything is possible. But realistic fans predict lower which is now looking more likely.

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The lower end of predictions was relegation. The higher end was ~13th. So even finishing ~15th which is probably the lowest we'll go is atleast a middling season considering fans and pundits alike had us as a relegation candidate. Here is the thread:

(still a shame SKDMan didn't take that charity bet, that'd we'd be closer to 10-14th than 20th.)

Edited by TWar
ChrisPY

ChrisPY

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 14:56, TWar said:

You post like crazy when we lose and have been around a while, not unreasonable. Also a number of people noticed you went when we had good form and yet a few losses and you are right back. Bit weird is all.

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To be fair, the forum is generally busier when we’re playing badly. A lot more to pick apart and discuss after a defeat.

If we win, it’s reasonable to respond with a ‘that was good, I’m going to celebrate with a curry and a few pints’.

  • Like 2
TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 15:36, ChrisPY said:

To be fair, the forum is generally busier when we’re playing badly. A lot more to pick apart and discuss after a defeat.

If we win, it’s reasonable to respond with a ‘that was good, I’m going to celebrate with a curry and a few pints’.

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That's true, but most aren't so relentlessly negative and then completely AWOL when we win, only to come back as relentlessly negative when we lose again. It's kind of suspicious. Normally what a troll would do.

  • Like 1
Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 14:56, TWar said:

You post like crazy when we lose and have been around a while, not unreasonable. Also a number of people noticed you went when we had good form and yet a few losses and you are right back. Bit weird is all.

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My posting Xg has dropped a bit the past 6/7 weeks, but it’s nothing to do with results. In fact we haven’t won for over a month and I rarely posted during that period. So yet again, I call pony. 

TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 15:40, Lord Duckhunter said:

My posting Xg has dropped a bit the past 6/7 weeks, but it’s nothing to do with results. In fact we haven’t won for over a month and I rarely posted during that period. So yet again, I call pony. 

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Alright mate, whatever you say. I expect if we lose I'll see you next week. If not, see you next time we have a bad spell.

Sarisbury Saint

Sarisbury Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 15:29, TWar said:

The lower end of predictions was relegation. The higher end was ~13th. So even finishing ~15th which is probably the lowest we'll go is atleast a middling season considering fans and pundits alike had us as a relegation candidate. Here is the thread:

(still a shame SKDMan didn't take that charity bet, that'd we'd be closer to 10-14th than 20th.)

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Okay, I give in, once you start posting this shit it’s pointless .

  • Like 2
TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 15:51, Sarisbury Saint said:

Okay, I give in, once you start posting this shit it’s pointless .

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Why? Surely the quality of our season and by extension the success of our manager should be mediated against our expectations. 10th for City would be a disaster, 10th for Norwich would be amazing.

When analysing whether we have had a good season or not we have to assess what "good" means for us. Considering what was expected preseason we have done well. Standards raised in Jan-Feb but that's only true because of how well we did, not really fair to hold that against us.

Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 10/04/2022 at 16:04, TWar said:

Why? Surely the quality of our season and by extension the success of our manager should be mediated against our expectations. 10th for City would be a disaster, 10th for Norwich would be amazing.

When analysing whether we have had a good season or not we have to assess what "good" means for us. Considering what was expected preseason we have done well. Standards raised in Jan-Feb but that's only true because of how well we did, not really fair to hold that against us.

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I think we’ve had an average season, about par with what you’d realistically expect. 
 

Personally, at the start of the season I felt very pessimistic, given we were off the back of a run which saw us win a handful of games in about 30, but upon reflection and review, I’d say (given our squad) mid table is what you’d expect. 

I think we’ll finish anywhere between 12th - 16th, which you’d say is about par. 

That being said, it’s very likely we’ll go on another ridiculously bad run, that rot has already started 1 point in 5 games is it now? Amd that performance deserved another 9-0 and was arguably worse. 

All things considered, we’ve performed over the course of the season about par, embarrassed ourselves in a shambles of a performance, again for the 3rd season running, failed in cups with ridiculous team selections.. again.

 

Ralph continues to make the same mistakes, in his 3 seasons in charge he’s not taken us to the next level, if anything we’re getting worse. He was an upgrade on Hughes and MoPo but we’re stall and need a change, imo. 

Edited by Dman
TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 16:17, Dman said:

I think we’ve had an average season, about par with what you’d realistically expect. 
 

Personally, at the start of the season I felt very pessimistic, given we were off the back of a run which saw us win a handful of games in about 30, but upon reflection and review, I’d say (given our squad) mid table is what you’d expect. 

I think we’ll finish anywhere between 12th - 16th, which you’d say is about par. 

That being said, it’s very likely we’ll go on another ridiculously bad run, that rot has already started 1 point in 5 games is it now? Amd that performance deserved another 9-0 and was arguably worse. 

All things considered, we’ve performed over the course of the season about par, embarrassed ourselves in a shambles of a performance, again for the 3rd season running, failed in cups with ridiculous team selections.. again.

 

Ralph continues to make the same mistakes, in his 3 seasons in charge he’s not taken us to the next level, if anything we’re getting worse. He was an upgrade on Hughes and MoPo but we’re stall and need a change, imo. 

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To get to the next level we need to spend more than second least in the league. The manager can't pull that out of thin air. With these new owners we shall see.

Toussaint

Toussaint

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 17:12, TWar said:

To get to the next level we need to spend more than second least in the league. The manager can't pull that out of thin air. With these new owners we shall see.

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If your ethos is developing talent, as ours is,  then the transfer spend is far less relevant, regardless of that, I wouldn’t trust Ralph with with Man City’s squad, it’s still be a wreckit schizophrenic roller coaster.

TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 10/04/2022 at 17:30, Toussaint said:

If your ethos is developing talent, as ours is,  then the transfer spend is far less relevant, regardless of that, I wouldn’t trust Ralph with with Man City’s squad, it’s still be a wreckit schizophrenic roller coaster.

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I disagree. A team can't survive on promising teenagers alone. We need some senior talent and some genuine quality, especially in attacking mid and CB, and that costs money. If we could spend a good £30-40m and get our answer to Raphinha or Neto we'd be atleast a few points better off.

Ralph has done incredibly to improve JWP, Bednarek, Adams, KWP, Romeu, Armstrong, Tino, Broja etc. But we need money to reach the same level as these teams who fill holes with £30-40m finished article signings.

Edited by TWar
Give it to Ron

Give it to Ron

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 17:39, TWar said:

I disagree. A team can't survive on promising teenagers alone. We need some senior talent and some genuine quality, especially in attacking mid and CB, and that costs money. If we could spend a good £30-40m and get our answer to Raphinha or Neto we'd be atleast a few points better off.

Ralph has done incredibly to improve JWP, Bednarek, Adams, KWP, Romeu, Armstrong, Tino, Broja etc. But we need money to reach the same level as these teams who fill holes with £30-40m finished article signings.

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Improved Bednarek now I know you are trolling

Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 17:39, TWar said:

I disagree. A team can't survive on promising teenagers alone. We need some senior talent and some genuine quality, especially in attacking mid and CB, and that costs money. If we could spend a good £30-40m and get our answer to Raphinha or Neto we'd be atleast a few points better off.

Ralph has done incredibly to improve JWP, Bednarek, Adams, KWP, Romeu, Armstrong, Tino, Broja etc. But we need money to reach the same level as these teams who fill holes with £30-40m finished article signings.

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Bednerak, who most can’t wait to see the back of? 
 

Romeu, who was play of the season under Puel? 
 

Armstrong was chipping in with goals and still looked a real good player under Hughes. 
 

Broja / Tino are at the same level as their first game imo. Not much improvement there, they came from Chelsea, so clearly we’re good players before us. 
 

Rather biased imo. 

  • Like 1
Billy the Kidd

Billy the Kidd

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 17:39, TWar said:

I disagree. A team can't survive on promising teenagers alone. We need some senior talent and some genuine quality, especially in attacking mid and CB, and that costs money. If we could spend a good £30-40m and get our answer to Raphinha or Neto we'd be atleast a few points better off.

Ralph has done incredibly to improve JWP, Bednarek, Adams, KWP, Romeu, Armstrong, Tino, Broja etc. But we need money to reach the same level as these teams who fill holes with £30-40m finished article signings.

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Why do you think Ralph keeps playing Tino, when KWP at RB and Perraud at LB seems to have better balance?

  • Like 1
Sarisbury Saint

Sarisbury Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 17:49, Dman said:

Bednerak, who most can’t wait to see the back of? 
 

Romeu, who was play of the season under Puel? 
 

Armstrong was chipping in with goals and still looked a real good player under Hughes. 
 

Broja / Tino are at the same level as their first game imo. Not much improvement there, they came from Chelsea, so clearly we’re good players before us. 
 

Rather biased imo. 

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This is the thing, he keep’s bleating on about how he’s improved so many players yet as you’ve rightly proven above its just bullshit.

Hows he getting on with Djenepo, AArmstrong, Diallo, Walcott McCarthy, Stephens etc ect.

Toussaint

Toussaint

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 17:39, TWar said:

I disagree. A team can't survive on promising teenagers alone. We need some senior talent and some genuine quality, especially in attacking mid and CB, and that costs money. If we could spend a good £30-40m and get our answer to Raphinha or Neto we'd be atleast a few points better off.

Ralph has done incredibly to improve JWP, Bednarek, Adams, KWP, Romeu, Armstrong, Tino, Broja etc. But we need money to reach the same level as these teams who fill holes with £30-40m finished article signings.

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It’s possible he has improved them, it’s also possible they have matured and developed naturally, if your going to credit him with the development of players  then by extension you can hold him responsible for the players that have regressed under his tenure, for example Redmond, Elyounussi and Djneppo, also his failure to “develop” Peraud into a regular starter. I agree we need more talent in attacking mid,  it my point relates to money spent, we tend to hunt for unpolished diamonds, so, when you speak of net spend it’s not the full story, you would be better to look at squad value, we have some players that would command significant transfer fees.

The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 18:04, Sarisbury Saint said:

This is the thing, he keep’s bleating on about how he’s improved so many players yet as you’ve rightly proven above its just bullshit.

Hows he getting on with Djenepo, AArmstrong, Diallo, Walcott McCarthy, Stephens etc ect.

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Have to say that’s a fair question.

Apart from maybe A Armstrong. He’s a rabbit in the headlights but i think it’s too soon to write him off, he deserves a bit of development time like Adams got.

egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 17:39, TWar said:

I disagree. A team can't survive on promising teenagers alone. We need some senior talent and some genuine quality, especially in attacking mid and CB, and that costs money. If we could spend a good £30-40m and get our answer to Raphinha or Neto we'd be atleast a few points better off.

Ralph has done incredibly to improve JWP, Bednarek, Adams, KWP, Romeu, Armstrong, Tino, Broja etc. But we need money to reach the same level as these teams who fill holes with £30-40m finished article signings.

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Tino has gone backwards. You've said time and again that Broja has been poor recently. That's not improvement. Djenepo has regressed too, ditto Diallo, and Walcott has fallen off a cliff. Regardless, he's tactically shite and unable to learn from his mistakes - yesterday is a case in point.

  • Like 1
Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 18:47, egg said:

Tino has gone backwards. You've said time and again that Broja has been poor recently. That's not improvement. Djenepo has regressed too, ditto Diallo, and Walcott has fallen off a cliff. Regardless, he's tactically shite and unable to learn from his mistakes - yesterday is a case in point.

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Hahaha very good point there sir! 

TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 17:49, Dman said:

Bednerak, who most can’t wait to see the back of? 
 

Romeu, who was play of the season under Puel? 
 

Armstrong was chipping in with goals and still looked a real good player under Hughes. 
 

Broja / Tino are at the same level as their first game imo. Not much improvement there, they came from Chelsea, so clearly we’re good players before us. 
 

Rather biased imo. 

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Bednarek who was a bench player before Ralph and now is a prem regular, yeah.

Romeu is definitely better than when Ralph joined, he often didn't play under Hughes and Pellegrino.

Both Broja and Tino are better than they were previously to Ralph. By the time of their first game they'd been training with Ralph for some time.

No mention of the others I listed? That seems biased to me...

TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 18:47, egg said:

Tino has gone backwards. You've said time and again that Broja has been poor recently. That's not improvement. Djenepo has regressed too, ditto Diallo, and Walcott has fallen off a cliff. Regardless, he's tactically shite and unable to learn from his mistakes - yesterday is a case in point.

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No way in hell Tino had gone backwards. He hadn't played a single senior game when he joined.

Djenepo hasn't progressed but he wasn't exactly massive when he joined. Walcott has aged, happens to the best of us. Diallo is fine, hasn't had enough minutes but has had some very good games this season.

When you consider the progress of JWP, KWP, Salisu, Adams etc. He definitely improves players.

TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 18:07, Toussaint said:

It’s possible he has improved them, it’s also possible they have matured and developed naturally, if your going to credit him with the development of players  then by extension you can hold him responsible for the players that have regressed under his tenure, for example Redmond, Elyounussi and Djneppo, also his failure to “develop” Peraud into a regular starter. I agree we need more talent in attacking mid,  it my point relates to money spent, we tend to hunt for unpolished diamonds, so, when you speak of net spend it’s not the full story, you would be better to look at squad value, we have some players that would command significant transfer fees.

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How can you possibly say Elyounoussi has regressed? Did you watch him last time he played before us. He has had a massive improvement. 

Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 18:49, TWar said:

Bednarek who was a bench player before Ralph and now is a prem regular, yeah.

Romeu is definitely better than when Ralph joined, he often didn't play under Hughes and Pellegrino.

Both Broja and Tino are better than they were previously to Ralph. By the time of their first game they'd been training with Ralph for some time.

No mention of the others I listed? That seems biased to me...

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How do you know this? I bet you’d not seen either of them play a minute of football. 
 

Regarding Romeu and Bednerak. It’s debatable that Bednerak is a premier league player, he plays because we don’t have any better. Not that he is much better, Ralph just prefers him (probably why we’ve shipped 9’goals twice) 

Romeu, just because he wasn’t playing doesn’t mean he wasn’t a good player. Hughes & MoPo preferred the big name of Lemina playing next to Hojberg. As I said, he was player of the season under Puel so clearly had hit these sort of levels before. 

To Ralph’s credit, he’s improved JWP. He’s added a degree of solidity to him, so credit where it’s due there. 

Toussaint

Toussaint

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 18:53, TWar said:

How can you possibly say Elyounoussi has regressed? Did you watch him last time he played before us. He has had a massive improvement. 

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He has been dreadful since Villa away, before that he was good, now he is bad, hence regression 

TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 18:57, Toussaint said:

He has been dreadful since Villa away, before that he was good, now he is bad, hence regression 

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So it doesn't matter if hes objectively improved 10 fold since he last played for us if he is in a spell of bad form then Ralph has made him worse? How's that fair? Across the entire season he looks a different player under Ralph than he did previously.

Sarisbury Saint

Sarisbury Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2022 at 18:53, TWar said:

How can you possibly say Elyounoussi has regressed? Did you watch him last time he played before us. He has had a massive improvement. 

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Celtic can take the credit for that.

Take your rose tinted spectacles off and go and watch them.

  • Like 1

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