Current PL managers better than Ralph

[whelk]

I am a fickle bastard when it comes to Ralph but many mates seem to regard him a lot higher than me. Which PL teams have better managers or woudl you want in his place?

Pep - yes

Klopp - yes

Tuchel - yes

Spurs - yes

arsenal - maybe

Man Utd - no

west Ham - yes

brighton - contentious but yes

Leicester - yes

wolves - yes but dull

palace - yes 

Villa - maybe but early days

Newcastle - no

Brentford - yes

Leeds - too early but good start

Everton - probably not

Burnley - no 

Watford - no

Norwich - no

 

[AlexLaw76]

Howe will probably get his Newcastle side finishing above saints. 
 

Despite how bad he apparently  is

Edited 10 April, 2022 by AlexLaw76

[danjosaint]

Lampard, D Smith, Rangnick are imho are the only ones worse than Ralph, a few like Dyche, Hodgson  maybe not great but stick to what they know and do reasonably well, Marsch as said to early to tell along with Gérard and Lage is having really good season with wolves albeit quite an expensive assembled team 

Edited 10 April, 2022 by danjosaint

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 10/04/2022 at 09:07, AlexLaw76 said:

Howe will probably get his Newcastle side finishing above saints. 
 

Despite how bad he apparently  is

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Is that due to Howe or the money that they have spent?

[AlexLaw76]

  On 10/04/2022 at 09:53, Whitey Grandad said:

Is that due to Howe or the money that they have spent?

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Yes, i am sure we would have been delighted with 3 goal Chris Wood coming here.

 

[goodymatt]

  On 10/04/2022 at 09:56, AlexLaw76 said:

Yes, i am sure we would have been delighted with 3 goal Chris Wood coming here.

 

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He spent the same amount in January as we sold our club for (yes I know, excluding the debt).

We’d spend that in 3/4 seasons? It’s certainly a factor. There’s a direct correlation between that window being open and their points racking up.

Edited 10 April, 2022 by goodymatt
Spellcheck

[AlexLaw76]

  On 10/04/2022 at 10:07, goodymatt said:

He spent the same amount in January as we sold our club for (yes I know, excluding the debt).

We’d spend that in 3/4 seasons? It’s certainly a factor. There’s a direct correlation between that window being open and their points racking up.

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Just look at the players he bought?

Trippier - injured

Guimeraes - rotated a lot

Wood - Starts every game

Burn - Starts every game

Targett - deemed not good enough by saints/saints fans

essentially, their form is on the back of Targett, Wood and Burn.  Would we have shown such improvement with those?

Howe is also supposed to appalling at 'spending money'...

he will likely finish above Ralph, despite the head-start we had, Ralph being far superior and Eddie being terrible at managing players bought for big money

Edited 10 April, 2022 by AlexLaw76

[cloggy saint]

How about a thread 'Current PL managers with better squads to work with than Ralph'.

[bangkoksaint]

Ralph is nothing special. He’s our level and us his. 

[beatlesaint]

 

  Quote

Howe is also supposed to appalling at 'spending money'...

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If you go by his record at Bournemouth he is whether you want to doubt it or not. It’s when he suddenly had the Russian guys money that they started unraveling.

If you seriously think the Newcastle billions will be trusted to Eddie Howe when they look to plan for their rivalling of Man City etc then think again. They will do exactly what City did, I believe our old mate Mark Hughes was in the hot seat, and jettison him for a big name to attract the big players.

Edited 10 April, 2022 by beatlesaint

[Lee On Solent Saint]

I wouldn't have a problem with Eddie Howe being our manager. Despite the opinions of some, I think he is an upgrade on Ralph.

[saint lard]

I’d still be more than happy to have Thomas Frank as gaffer. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Dman]

  On 10/04/2022 at 08:46, whelk said:

I am a fickle bastard when it comes to Ralph but many mates seem to regard him a lot higher than me. Which PL teams have better managers or woudl you want in his place?

Pep - yes

Klopp - yes

Tuchel - yes

Spurs - yes

arsenal - maybe

Man Utd - no

west Ham - yes

brighton - contentious but yes

Leicester - yes

wolves - yes but dull

palace - yes 

Villa - maybe but early days

Newcastle - no

Brentford - yes

Leeds - too early but good start

Everton - probably not

Burnley - no 

Watford - no

Norwich - no

 

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Largely agree, except I think Howe is equal, if not better. Especially based on recent performance anyway. 
 

And whilst he’s not pretty or a big name and one I personally wouldn’t want here, but Dyche is also equal to, and probably better. 
 

Given the only real argument to keep Ralph is because he ‘will keep us in the league woth no budget’, dyche has done that season after season with Burnley who have (other than maybe 1 or 2 players) a squad that is of championship quality. 
 

Either way, that list just goes to show that the “we couldn’t do better” or “name someone better” argument is complete rubbish. 

[egg]

  On 10/04/2022 at 10:19, cloggy saint said:

How about a thread 'Current PL managers with better squads to work with than Ralph'.

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How about a thread 'Current PL managers with more predictable and easier to pick off tactics than Ralph'. 

Tuchels post match comments highlight the predictability of how we set up. The sad thing is that we can see it. Ralph seemingly can't. 

[Dman]

  On 10/04/2022 at 10:19, cloggy saint said:

How about a thread 'Current PL managers with better squads to work with than Ralph'.

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Here we go again. The squad was absolutely fine a month or 2 ago, no problems at all (other than maybe the keeper). 

[Dman]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:16, egg said:

How about a thread 'Current PL managers with more predictable and easier to pick off tactics than Ralph'. 

Tuchels post match comments highlight the predictability of how we set up. The sad thing is that we can see it. Ralph seemingly can't. 

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It’s why we go on stupid runs imo. We find a formula, it works, we’re great. Other teams suss said formula and it takes us 10-15 of trying the same thing, until we change it up. 
 

My honest opinion is that Ralph is a very good ‘coach’ on the training ground, has a clear idea of how he wants to play amd can coach the team to implement that. 
 

He’s a terrible tactician though and at this level, terrible tacticians get found out. 

[nta786]

I think we have an issue in this country that when a manager has one bad season or gets relegated, they need to be written off and prevented from ever getting a good job again.

Jurgen Klopp suffered relegation with Mainz, more older examples we have seen Conte/Wenger suffer relegation too.

Back to Howe, his final season at Bournemouth shouldn’t define him. For the record, I think both are pretty similar and whilst I’ll stick with Ralph for now, I wouldn’t rule Howe out for the future. 

[cloggy saint]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:17, Dman said:

Here we go again. The squad was absolutely fine a month or 2 ago, no problems at all (other than maybe the keeper). 

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So I guess Ralph was absolutely fine a month or 2 ago as well.

[TWar]

  On 10/04/2022 at 09:56, AlexLaw76 said:

Yes, i am sure we would have been delighted with 3 goal Chris Wood coming here.

 

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- Spends the most money in europe and more money than we have spent in the last 5 years

- "but guys, it's just Chris Wood"

[Dman]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:23, cloggy saint said:

So I guess Ralph was absolutely fine a month or 2 ago as well.

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Anyone who’s watched us over the past 3 years could tell you that a slump was round the corner. 
 

I don’t think he’s underachieving by any means, probably about par, but these embarrassing results and runs of form cannot continue and under Ralph they will. 

[TWar]

As an answer to the question. I'd have Pep, Klopp, Tuchel, Conte, Arteta, Moyes and Potter (maybe).

[TWar]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:26, Dman said:

Anyone who’s watched us over the past 3 years could tell you that a slump was round the corner. 
 

I don’t think he’s underachieving by any means, probably about par, but these embarrassing results and runs of form cannot continue and under Ralph they will. 

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Like anyone could tell you we would finish 20th? A slump which has us still one point off 9th isn't much of a slump.

[egg]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:21, Dman said:

It’s why we go on stupid runs imo. We find a formula, it works, we’re great. Other teams suss said formula and it takes us 10-15 of trying the same thing, until we change it up. 
 

My honest opinion is that Ralph is a very good ‘coach’ on the training ground, has a clear idea of how he wants to play amd can coach the team to implement that. 
 

He’s a terrible tactician though and at this level, terrible tacticians get found out. 

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Yep. It's embarrassing reading what Tuchel said. Essentially, they knew we'd play 442 with 2 number 6's pressing high, so picked Werner and Mount to go behind and pick us off. Easy as peas. It's obvious to anyone with anyone with any tactical sense that you don't concede the midfield and you keep it tight. It was like he was trying to see how he could pick a team and more tactics more mental than Liverpool away. 

[Dman]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:27, TWar said:

As an answer to the question. I'd have Pep, Klopp, Tuchel, Conte, Arteta, Moyes and Potter (maybe).

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That’s it? LMFAO

[Dman]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:28, TWar said:

Like anyone could tell you we would finish 20th? A slump which has us still one point off 9th isn't much of a slump.

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The slump hasn’t finished yet pal….

[TWar]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:31, egg said:

Yep. It's embarrassing reading what Tuchel said. Essentially, they knew we'd play 442 with 2 number 6's pressing high, so picked Werner and Mount to go behind and pick us off. Easy as peas. It's obvious to anyone with anyone with any tactical sense that you don't concede the midfield and you keep it tight. It was like he was trying to see how he could pick a team and more tactics more mental than Liverpool away. 

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What are the differences between that tactic and the one we successfully employed against City, Spurs, and United earlier in the year? Also it was a 4222 not a 442.

It clearly is a tactic that works when we are playing well, we just had a lot of players performing well well below their usual standards.

[egg]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:24, TWar said:

- Spends the most money in europe and more money than we have spent in the last 5 years

- "but guys, it's just Chris Wood"

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Yep, it's just Chris Wood. If you said that Armstrong had a higher ceiling than him, we'd agree for once!

Re your possibly to Potter on another post. No possibly for me, he's done wanders with a limited squad at BHA. 

[TWar]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:33, Dman said:

The slump hasn’t finished yet pal….

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Wonder if we'll slump all the way to 20th...

[TWar]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:33, egg said:

Yep, it's just Chris Wood. If you said that Armstrong had a higher ceiling than him, we'd agree for once!

Re your possibly to Potter on another post. No possibly for me, he's done wanders with a limited squad at BHA. 

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Trippier was incredible for them preinjury, Burn has massively improved their defence, and Bruno is a top player who is already showing his value. Wood has scored more goals since his first game for Newcastle than Broja in the league in the same timeframe so this "It's only Chris Wood" thing, he's done better than who we have up top. Targett is average, don't get me wrong, but who they had in that position before was dogshite so he was still a big step up.

[egg]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:33, TWar said:

What are the differences between that tactic and the one we successfully employed against City, Spurs, and United earlier in the year? Also it was a 4222 not a 442.

It clearly is a tactic that works when we are playing well, we just had a lot of players performing well well below their usual standards.

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I'll tell you the difference. Those teams play on the front foot and the pressing works against them. Against teams more counter attack minded, we get sucked into the press, and they pass over and around us. 

As for 442, Tuchel referred to it as a 442...don't be telling us you know better than him. 

[cloggy saint]

Yesterday was a shit-show but I'm not going to let one thrashing spoil what has been a fairly decent season. The big picture says we've only lost 1 more game than Spurs, Arsenal and West Ham. We've lost fewer than Villa and Wolves, we've had some good results against the 'big boys' and at no stage have we, nor will we be involved in the relegation scrap.  

[TWar]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:38, egg said:

I'll tell you the difference. Those teams play on the front foot and the pressing works against them. Against teams more counter attack minded, we get sucked into the press, and they pass over and around us. 

As for 442, Tuchel referred to it as a 442...don't be telling us you know better than him. 

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How can you refer to a team as more counter attack minded when they had 71% possession? It was anything but counter attack, they kept the ball and broke us down like City do.

And Ralph has called it a 4222 on countless occassions and he is the one that sets it up, so probably a better authority than someone who played against it.

[TWar]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:32, Dman said:

That’s it? LMFAO

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I remember you having a similar reaction to people saying we'd finish 10-14th, it was LOL instead of LMFAO but it was pretty much the same thing. How did that work out?

[egg]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:40, TWar said:

How can you refer to a team as more counter attack minded when they had 71% possession? It was anything but counter attack, they kept the ball and broke us down like City do.

And Ralph has called it a 4222 on countless occassions and he is the one that sets it up, so probably a better authority than someone who played against it.

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So you think you know better than Tuchel. Jeez.

I'll say again, when Tuchel talked about our predicable tactics and how easy we were to set up against, he called it a 442. If you or Ralph want to refer to the outer 2 in the middle 2 as something else be my guest, but it's nothing more than 442 with the wide men tucking in. 

Watch how City and Chelsea play. Its chalk and cheese. Chelsea won't be as bothered by the press as City, and set up with more bodies in the middle and between the lines to pick us off, which they did with ease. Without being disrespectful, I'll end a tactical discussion here as you've shown time again that a discussion with you is pointless. 

[Dman]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:46, egg said:

So you think you know better than Tuchel. Jeez.

I'll say again, when Tuchel talked about our predicable tactics and how easy we were to set up against, he called it a 442. If you or Ralph want to refer to the outer 2 in the middle 2 as something else be my guest, but it's nothing more than 442 with the wide men tucking in. 

Watch how City and Chelsea play. Its chalk and cheese. Chelsea won't be as bothered by the press as City, and set up with more bodies in the middle and between the lines to pick us off, which they did with ease. Without being disrespectful, I'll end a tactical discussion here as you've shown time again that a discussion with you is pointless. 

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Of course he does. He knows better than everyone. 

[RedArmy]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:17, Dman said:

Here we go again. The squad was absolutely fine a month or 2 ago, no problems at all (other than maybe the keeper). 

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Exactly. The squad is good enough to get results, Ralph isn’t good enough to sustain a long run of good form. 
 

He comes up with very very basic approaches, they work for a short amount of time and then once one team figures it out the rest follow and we are back to being utterly shite again. 

[TWar]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:46, egg said:

So you think you know better than Tuchel. Jeez.

I'll say again, when Tuchel talked about our predicable tactics and how easy we were to set up against, he called it a 442. If you or Ralph want to refer to the outer 2 in the middle 2 as something else be my guest, but it's nothing more than 442 with the wide men tucking in. 

Watch how City and Chelsea play. Its chalk and cheese. Chelsea won't be as bothered by the press as City, and set up with more bodies in the middle and between the lines to pick us off, which they did with ease. Without being disrespectful, I'll end a tactical discussion here as you've shown time again that a discussion with you is pointless. 

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Ralph calls it a 4222 and I think Ralph knows better about his own set up than Tuchel.

Also me vs Tuchel is a weird framing given I am referencing Ralph and you Tuchel, it's either me vs you or Ralph vs Tuchel. Saying its me vs Tuchel is a blatant misrepresentation to appeal to authority. I could equally say:

So you think you know better than Ralph. Jeez.

[TWar]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:48, Dman said:

Of course he does. He knows better than everyone. 

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I know better than someone who thought we'd finish 20th and is now crying that we are only one point off 9th, but thats a low bar. By definition every other prediction was better off than that other than top 4, which no one said in earnest.

[cloggy saint]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:46, egg said:

So you think you know better than Tuchel. Jeez.

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In his defence, most people here think they know better than Ralph .....

[Lord Duckhunter]

How many Premier league supporters would want to swap their manager for Ralph? 
Watford maybe, Manchester Utd (that says more about their incumbent than Ralph), who else? Norwich, perhaps but that’s touch & go, and I’m pretty sure they’d rather have Smith than Ralph in the championship. Leeds, possibly, but it’s early days. I don’t think there’s too many clubs where the supporters will be excited by the prospect of him rocking up and replacing their manager.  

Edited 10 April, 2022 by Lord Duckhunter

[egg]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:54, TWar said:

Ralph calls it a 4222 and I think Ralph knows better about his own set up than Tuchel.

Also me vs Tuchel is a weird framing given I am referencing Ralph and you Tuchel, it's either me vs you or Ralph vs Tuchel. Saying its me vs Tuchel is a blatant misrepresentation to appeal to authority. I could equally say:

So you think you know better than Ralph. Jeez.

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Brilliant!! Tuchel saw it coming, set his team up to beat it, his team thrashed us 6 nil and then had a sleep for over half an hour, but "Ralph knows better about his own set up than Tuchel" 😂

Clueless. Absolutely fucking clueless. 

 

[egg]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:59, cloggy saint said:

In his defence, most people here think they know better than Ralph .....

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To be fair, I'm sure most would have seen that 2 in the middle against their line up was mental. 

[ChrisPY]

  On 10/04/2022 at 10:24, bangkoksaint said:

Ralph is nothing special. He’s our level and us his. 

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Think this is pretty much why we’ve stuck with him because it’s relatively low risk.

If we got rid and the replacement doesn’t get it right, we could easily be relegated with this squad. I’d be tempted to make a change in the summer though and bring in Steve Cooper if Forest don’t come up. Sets his teams up well and improves players which is what we need when our budget is still going to be limited.

[TWar]

  On 10/04/2022 at 13:08, egg said:

Brilliant!! Tuchel saw it coming, set his team up to beat it, his team thrashed us 6 nil and then had a sleep for over half an hour, but "Ralph knows better about his own set up than Tuchel" 😂

Clueless. Absolutely fucking clueless. 

 

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Ralph objectively does know what formation he asked his team to play? Tuchel, not being in the tactics meetings, does not. This shouldn't be controversial just because Chelsea won.

[Saints foreva]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:28, TWar said:

Like anyone could tell you we would finish 20th? A slump which has us still one point off 9th isn't much of a slump.

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5 defeats in 6 and we've taken two absolute beatings by Villa and Chelsea in that time. If that isn't a slump then what is?

[TWar]

  On 10/04/2022 at 13:10, egg said:

To be fair, I'm sure most would have seen that 2 in the middle against their line up was mental. 

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The same 2 in the middle that worked against City, Spurs and united.

We lost because our team massively underperformed, including a number of our best players. We lacked motivation which is absolutely on the manager. Also because Chelsea are very good. But to say it was a problem with formation and/or number of midfielders when we played exactly the same against other top sides successfully is poor analysis.

[TWar]

  On 10/04/2022 at 13:21, Saints foreva said:

5 defeats in 6 and we've taken two absolute beatings by Villa and Chelsea in that time. If that isn't a slump then what is?

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It is a slump. Obviously. But across the season we are doing really well compared to most expectations going in. I remember us being a lot of professional pundits prediction to go down. Given we still have a very good chance at top half Ralph has objectively done a very good job. A slump near the end when we are on the beach and have nothing to play for doesn't change that. Its bad? yes. Is it atleast partially the managers fault? Definitely. Does it mean he should be sacked? Fuck no, across the season Ralph has been superb.

Edited 10 April, 2022 by TWar

[egg]

  On 10/04/2022 at 13:22, TWar said:

The same 2 in the middle that worked against City, Spurs and united.

We lost because our team massively underperformed, including a number of our best players. We lacked motivation which is absolutely on the manager. Also because Chelsea are very good. But to say it was a problem with formation and/or number of midfielders when we played exactly the same against other top sides successfully is poor analysis.

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Watch some matches. Compare how those teams compare to Chelsea. Maybe listen / read what Tuchel says. It's not complicated with a modicum of tactical understanding, but in simple terms, more men in the middle yesterday plus Mount between the lines plus a mobile Werner left us waiting to be picked off. Our 442 was easy to pick off. 

[Sarisbury Saint]

  On 10/04/2022 at 09:53, Whitey Grandad said:

Is that due to Howe or the money that they have spent?

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Trippier has been injured for the most part and the other signings are within our budget, so yes, Howe has turned them around.

[Sarisbury Saint]

  On 10/04/2022 at 12:53, RedArmy said:

Exactly. The squad is good enough to get results, Ralph isn’t good enough to sustain a long run of good form. 
 

He comes up with very very basic approaches, they work for a short amount of time and then once one team figures it out the rest follow and we are back to being utterly shite again. 

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Absolutely this. Same 4222 tactics that teams have sussed.

it was clear after 10 minutes that we were going to get a battering, yet he waited until the game was lost: