Saints 1-4 Man City - Match Thread

[kitch]

17 hours ago, Saint86 said:

 Chants of "your support is f'ing shit" and fans leaving with 15min to go. Players deserve better backing than this. Ditto people raging at the players here when they run their socks off vs one of the best teams in the world. 

It was us singing that at them. As soon as the own goal went in, City fans were silent. They had the whole Northam end too, don't forgot. Just depends where the mics were positioned.

[DT]

1 hour ago, jawillwill said:

Will be great when Newcastle start to join in with the fun 😴

That started a few months ago

[Scummer]

Was the penalty actually given for a push or a trip? If it was a push, it was far slighter than the one on Long. If it was a trip, I'm not convinced that Jesus didn't clip the back of his own calf.

[Totton Saint]

46 minutes ago, JRM said:

Just watched the highlights and maintain what I thought at the ground,  the penalty was very harsh, Jesus makes a meal of it when Salisu tries to show him away from goal, very little contact 

I agree. Not sure Salusi made any contact. Mike  Dean  is our bete noir.

[Nordic Saint]

1 hour ago, Totton Saint said:

I agree. Not sure Salusi made any contact. Mike  Dean  is our bete noir.

It was a fairly convincing dive but Dean wouldn't have given a penalty for it at the other end. In fact, he didn't for a far heftier shove in the back which sent Long sprawling in the City penalty area.  It was the way that Jesus stuck his leg back to try to make it look like he'd been tripped which bought it. Jesus is a seasoned cheat. Everybody around me was shocked to find out that a penalty had been given for it. 

The only consolation is that there is a rumour Mike Dean is retiring at the end of the season.

Edited 21 March, 2022 by Nordic Saint

[tunit]

54 minutes ago, kitch said:

It was us singing that at them. As soon as the own goal went in, City fans were silent. They had the whole Northam end too, don't forgot. Just depends where the mics were positioned.

City fans were incredibly quiet considering the amount of fans they had at the game. In comparison to say Cov fans who were the loudest I've seen at St Marys this season. You don't hear a peep from them until they're in the lead.

[John Boy Saint]

42 minutes ago, tunit said:

City fans were incredibly quiet considering the amount of fans they had at the game. In comparison to say Cov fans who were the loudest I've seen at St Marys this season. You don't hear a peep from them until they're in the lead.

I thought the same about them,  almost like they have “always winning” apathy.

We were quiet too but you sensed an air of resignation at the inevitability of different week same hopes dashed.
 

Happened in the Watford game at 2-0 to the point where you could hear the players shouting.

[Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan]

19 minutes ago, John Boy Saint said:

I thought the same about them,  almost like they have “always winning” apathy.

We were quiet too but you sensed an air of resignation at the inevitability of different week same hopes dashed.
 

Happened in the Watford game at 2-0 to the point where you could hear the players shouting.

There were massive contrasts in crown noise yesterday. We were very loud going into half time, and still at 2:1 down, while they were still pretty quiet there. Both sets of fans were so quiet at one point at 3:1 that I could hear Ralph, not a good sign. 

[Sunglasses Ron]

I have such low expectations whenever we play a Man City or Liverpool.  Add in Mike Dean and the default position is "please don't get battered 9-0".

I was really happy with the performance until the penalty, which was soft IMO.  That and the subs Man City made absolutely killed us and I'm glad we escaped with a 1-4.

As has been said before, to win these games you need everyone putting in a 9 / 10 star performance, them being off the boil AND having luck on our side.

The frustration is that all those ingredients were present for the first 60 minutes (apart from Stephens, of course), but the complete opposite happened in the final 30 and we came out of the game feeling much worse than we should have.

This reminds me massively of the 1-4 against the Skates in the cup some years ago now.

[Teddeer]

4 hours ago, JRM said:

Just watched the highlights and maintain what I thought at the ground,  the penalty was very harsh, Jesus makes a meal of it when Salisu tries to show him away from goal, very little contact 

The penalty was soft to say the least. Salisu makes the merest of touches on Jesus who throws himself to the ground as though he's been hit by a tank. Disgraceful dive and he looked sheepish as well.

[Whitey Grandad]

8 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

The penalty was soft to say the least. Salisu makes the merest of touches on Jesus who throws himself to the ground as though he's been hit by a tank. Disgraceful dive and he looked sheepish as well.

Mike Dean was quite a way from the incident and was looking slightly across Salisu. If he'd had my view he might not have given it.

[Teddeer]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Mike Dean was quite a way from the incident and was looking slightly across Salisu. If he'd had my view he might not have given it.

I thought VAR might get him to take another look but these decisions seem to go in favour of the bigger teams. We are denied a pen at Man City by VAR when Adam Armstrong was chopped from behind but they uphold a soft one after Jesus dived yesterday.

[Sheaf Saint]

2 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

I thought VAR might get him to take another look but these decisions seem to go in favour of the bigger teams. We are denied a pen at Man City by VAR when Adam Armstrong was chopped from behind but they uphold a soft one after Jesus dived yesterday.

No way VAR were going to overturn that. If Dean hadnt given it they might have intervened and swayed him to change his mind, but the moment Jesus goes over you just knew he wouldn't hesitate to give it. 

The inconsistency is infuriating. In the first half Long was pushed in the back just as he was about to get his head on a cross it wasn't even checked.

[Chez]

22 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

I thought VAR might get him to take another look but these decisions seem to go in favour of the bigger teams. We are denied a pen at Man City by VAR when Adam Armstrong was chopped from behind but they uphold a soft one after Jesus dived yesterday.

It looked a pen in real time, and then when the action was slowed down, there was clearly leg-to-leg contact, so the VAR folks could not possibly object to the decision. It felt a bit `soft', the contact between the two wasn't huge, but it was down to Salisu lunging in, not Mike Dean making a poor decision, sadly.

[tunit]

27 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

I thought VAR might get him to take another look but these decisions seem to go in favour of the bigger teams. We are denied a pen at Man City by VAR when Adam Armstrong was chopped from behind but they uphold a soft one after Jesus dived yesterday.

Thats a very good point actually. If you showed someone the fouls on Armstrong at the Etihad and Jesus yesterday and said that one of them was given a penalty and one wasn't then I doubt the person would sure which one was which

[JRM]

43 minutes ago, Chez said:

It looked a pen in real time, and then when the action was slowed down, there was clearly leg-to-leg contact, so the VAR folks could not possibly object to the decision. It felt a bit `soft', the contact between the two wasn't huge, but it was down to Salisu lunging in, not Mike Dean making a poor decision, sadly.

Depends where you were sat I suppose , I was in the Kingsland right in line with the incident a few metres in front of me, looked like Jesus flung himself to the ground with minimal contact at the time, highlights confirm that for me 

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, JRM said:

Depends where you were sat I suppose , I was in the Kingsland right in line with the incident a few metres in front of me, looked like Jesus flung himself to the ground with minimal contact at the time, highlights confirm that for me 

Same here. Salisu didn'tbreak his stride and Jesus stepped into him.

Salisu just got too close and should have kep further away.  Jesus manufactured the fould and Dean bought it.

[cloggy saint]

1 hour ago, Teddeer said:

The penalty was soft to say the least. Salisu makes the merest of touches on Jesus who throws himself to the ground as though he's been hit by a tank. Disgraceful dive and he looked sheepish as well.

It was soft, just as soft as the pen' that Broja bought a few weeks ago, so can't complaint too much.

[John Boy Saint]

1 hour ago, Teddeer said:

The penalty was soft to say the least. Salisu makes the merest of touches on Jesus who throws himself to the ground as though he's been hit by a tank. Disgraceful dive and he looked sheepish as well.

Sat at that end of the ground when they came together the immediate thought was “oh dear” then looking at Dean you just knew he could not give it, whilst we were in his ear Mariner was in the other, and he also consulted the Lino to seal the deal. 
Salisu didn’t need to get quite so tight to Jesus he had the pace and size to run him out of room. 
As I mentioned already re the Shane Long shout - Dean motioned with his fingers to Long that it was very nearly a pen, of course we know the narrative had it been at the other end. 
 

I do wish we were just a little bit more chippy at the refs, City have the art almost as well drilled as their passing. LaPorte was in the Kingsland refs ear nearly every single time he failed to win the ball, especially when we gave him the faintest touch. It has to be the dripping tap approach keep berating and eventually when it does matter a 50/50 gets given for you as the official gets lulled into a thought of “hmmmmmm maybe he does have a point”.

Love to know what Jack said to get Dean to pull Prowsey over to be present for his telling off.

[trousers]

8 minutes ago, John Boy Saint said:

I do wish we were just a little bit more chippy at the refs, City have the art almost as well drilled as their passing. LaPorte was in the Kingsland refs ear nearly every single time he failed to win the ball, especially when we gave him the faintest touch. It has to be the dripping tap approach keep berating and eventually when it does matter a 50/50 gets given for you as the official gets lulled into a thought of “hmmmmmm maybe he does have a point”.

Agreed, I've said this for yonks... we're 'too nice' a lot of the time. The usual counter-argument from people that disagree is that "it doesn't affect the ref's decision making", but I'm yet to be convinced that it doesn't have a subconscious effect, especially in 50/50 scenarios as you say. 

Edited 21 March, 2022 by trousers

[Smirking_Saint]

After giving it some thought its hard to be too downhearted about what we saw yesterday, it was a strong and spirited performance and both the Sterling/Penalty were largely unfortunate and against the run of play

Stephens just isn’t good enough at the highest level and Salisu is unfortunately playing with a bit of fear in his mind at the moment due to previous mistakes

The penalty was soft, but hard to argue after it had been given, would we have got it ? Probably not, but once MS gave Dean the opportunity to give it then its inarguable

AA had a game full of blood and thunder, but you can see he is woefully chasing a goal. If you actually watch his past performances he actually has never been a composed finisher, prefering to lash a ball into the net. Which almost certainty makes it harder for a striker pkaying out of form when you are snatching at chances

I can’t blame him solely for yesterday, he got into those positions but I can’t help but feel ‘maybe’ we’d of taken a chance with Broja/Adams… unfortunately we actually looked worse as a team when the latter came on

Man City are probably the best team in the world, most positions they have a top3-5 player per position (Rodri, Dias, Cancelo, KDB) and we gave a very goid account of ourselves.

We’ve been here before, but hopefully have plenty to build on for next season

[Whitey Grandad]

5 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

After giving it some thought its hard to be too downhearted about what we saw yesterday, it was a strong and spirited performance and both the Sterling/Penalty were largely unfortunate and against the run of play

Stephens just isn’t good enough at the highest level and Salisu is unfortunately playing with a bit of fear in his mind at the moment due to previous mistakes

The penalty was soft, but hard to argue after it had been given, would we have got it ? Probably not, but once MS gave Dean the opportunity to give it then its inarguable

AA had a game full of blood and thunder, but you can see he is woefully chasing a goal. If you actually watch his past performances he actually has never been a composed finisher, prefering to lash a ball into the net. Which almost certainty makes it harder for a striker pkaying out of form when you are snatching at chances

I can’t blame him solely for yesterday, he got into those positions but I can’t help but feel ‘maybe’ we’d of taken a chance with Broja/Adams… unfortunately we actually looked worse as a team when the latter came on

Man City are probably the best team in the world, most positions they have a top3-5 player per position (Rodri, Dias, Cancelo, KDB) and we gave a very goid account of ourselves.

We’ve been here before, but hopefully have plenty to build on for next season

I agree with all of what you have said. We have to face the fact that we let in four goals one way or another and we would have needed to score another three ourselves just to force extra time.

[LiberalCommunist]

1 hour ago, JRM said:

Depends where you were sat I suppose , I was in the Kingsland right in line with the incident a few metres in front of me, looked like Jesus flung himself to the ground with minimal contact at the time, highlights confirm that for me 

It wasn't a penalty. ~MS does look a clumsy twat at times, and really needs to work on not steam rollering in when its not necessary. But Jesus is a little bitch on this one. Like he knows Mike Dean is waiting for the signal. Weak as piss. Pep would be raging for months had that gone against his precious team. 

But, we didn't lose because of that, or we couldn't prove we did after the capitulation towards the end. But I stlll loved the work effort, the running, the energy, the spirit. 

The fact that they needed a dodge pen to edge in-front, and were caught on tele in front of 6M people time wasting, well credit to us for that.

They are good, but they are not as good as they think they are........

[Teddeer]

2 hours ago, John Boy Saint said:

Sat at that end of the ground when they came together the immediate thought was “oh dear” then looking at Dean you just knew he could not give it, whilst we were in his ear Mariner was in the other, and he also consulted the Lino to seal the deal. 
Salisu didn’t need to get quite so tight to Jesus he had the pace and size to run him out of room. 
As I mentioned already re the Shane Long shout - Dean motioned with his fingers to Long that it was very nearly a pen, of course we know the narrative had it been at the other end. 
 

I do wish we were just a little bit more chippy at the refs, City have the art almost as well drilled as their passing. LaPorte was in the Kingsland refs ear nearly every single time he failed to win the ball, especially when we gave him the faintest touch. It has to be the dripping tap approach keep berating and eventually when it does matter a 50/50 gets given for you as the official gets lulled into a thought of “hmmmmmm maybe he does have a point”.

Love to know what Jack said to get Dean to pull Prowsey over to be present for his telling off.

Not sure how something can be classed as 'nearly' a penalty - either it is or it isn't.

[Baird of the land]

7 hours ago, Scummer said:

Was the penalty actually given for a push or a trip? If it was a push, it was far slighter than the one on Long. If it was a trip, I'm not convinced that Jesus didn't clip the back of his own calf.

I’m assumed the push with the leg contact the extra bonus. There’s definitely a discrepancy between the sort of contact allowed in certain situations ( the long one or on corners) compared to the low bar for the Jesus type incidents. There were minor incidents yestedaay where I thought dean was not equal but don’t think the penalty calls where really ones any other ref would have called differently.

[Dark Munster]

9 hours ago, danjosaint said:

That's why AA/long should've played at Watford  and Broja/che yesterday , Ralph got it wrong again and is reverting back to type, he's so reactive rather than being pro active, our tails were up at half time that's when subs should've happened not like usual wait till we're losing

He didn't wait until we were losing. Broja/Adams were about to come on before Salisu gave Jesus the opportunity to throw himself to the ground (which Mike F. Dean was all over like a bulldog on a pork chop fallen on the floor). 

[Dark Munster]

2 hours ago, John Boy Saint said:

Sat at that end of the ground when they came together the immediate thought was “oh dear” then looking at Dean you just knew he could not give it, whilst we were in his ear Mariner was in the other, and he also consulted the Lino to seal the deal. 
Salisu didn’t need to get quite so tight to Jesus he had the pace and size to run him out of room. 
As I mentioned already re the Shane Long shout - Dean motioned with his fingers to Long that it was very nearly a pen, of course we know the narrative had it been at the other end. 
 

I do wish we were just a little bit more chippy at the refs, City have the art almost as well drilled as their passing. LaPorte was in the Kingsland refs ear nearly every single time he failed to win the ball, especially when we gave him the faintest touch. It has to be the dripping tap approach keep berating and eventually when it does matter a 50/50 gets given for you as the official gets lulled into a thought of “hmmmmmm maybe he does have a point”.

Love to know what Jack said to get Dean to pull Prowsey over to be present for his telling off.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/work_the_refs

[danjosaint]

1 hour ago, Dark Munster said:

He didn't wait until we were losing. Broja/Adams were about to come on before Salisu gave Jesus the opportunity to throw himself to the ground (which Mike F. Dean was all over like a bulldog on a pork chop fallen on the floor). 

I get that but the fact is our tails were up, the subs should've happened at half time, especially how wasteful AA was, instead we come out pretty slow and let them take control 

Edited 21 March, 2022 by danjosaint

[kyle04]

I think it's a shame that players like Jesus more than likely practice scenarios like the penalty. The slightest contact from Salisu and he was going down, and the contact was very slight. Was Dean right to give it straight away, I don't know what view he had but it can't have been that clear. If he had waved it away would VAR have called a check, who knows. If AA for example had done the same there would be no complaints (except from Pep). Overall I thought Dean had a good game, despite pre-match reservations. IMO it was a 50/50 that went against us, we would still have lost the game. I think the way City pass the ball, the intricate triangles and space they find in tight areas is quite breathtaking sometimes, and a bloody nightmare for our lads. But they didn't perform like that for a good deal of the game, we won the ball from them as much as any team could have I think, so credit to us for that. As for the Long penalty shout, sorry no , not for me.

[Saint86]

13 hours ago, kitch said:

It was us singing that at them. As soon as the own goal went in, City fans were silent. They had the whole Northam end too, don't forgot. Just depends where the mics were positioned.

We scored the own goal in the second half did we 🤣

[st alex]

21 hours ago, Scummer said:

Was the penalty actually given for a push or a trip? If it was a push, it was far slighter than the one on Long. If it was a trip, I'm not convinced that Jesus didn't clip the back of his own calf.

At the time and in the highlights I'm amazing that that can be considered a penalty shout. I was sure Jesus would be booked for diving. All the response in the media seems to be that it was a risky challenge, which it might have been had he actually got a chance to make a challenge. If that's the benchmark for a penalty then can we expect to win one or two each match rather than one or two over the course of a season? Incredible bias at play there, had they been in opposite colours neither the ref or VAR would ever have given it.

[Sarisbury Saint]

1 minute ago, st alex said:

At the time and in the highlights I'm amazing that that can be considered a penalty shout. I was sure Jesus would be booked for diving. All the response in the media seems to be that it was a risky challenge, which it might have been had he actually got a chance to make a challenge. If that's the benchmark for a penalty then can we expect to win one or two each match rather than one or two over the course of a season? Incredible bias at play there, had they been in opposite colours neither the ref or VAR would ever have given it.

That’s what I said during the match thread.

If Salisu had kept his arms down then Jesus wouldn’t have launched himself. He has to learn when to be aggressive and when to hold off.

[East Kent Saint]

22 hours ago, Totton Saint said:

I agree. Not sure Salusi made any contact. Mike  Dean  is our bete noir.

Although he won't be ' in the middle' next season he will be a full time VA Ref apparently ☹️

[Sarnia Cherie]

We can discuss this match all day long but what concerns me most of all is Ralph's statement that Bednarek did not play because his mind was not 100% for this game. Sorry, but am I missing something?  We have a quarter-final Cup tie and he isn't 100% about it! Seems as if the upcoming Poland game is more important to him. Ralph should have put his foot down and remind him who pays his wages. We needed our very best team for this match so Bednarek's attitude stinks. 

[Lighthouse]

26 minutes ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

We can discuss this match all day long but what concerns me most of all is Ralph's statement that Bednarek did not play because his mind was not 100% for this game. Sorry, but am I missing something?  We have a quarter-final Cup tie and he isn't 100% about it! Seems as if the upcoming Poland game is more important to him. Ralph should have put his foot down and remind him who pays his wages. We needed our very best team for this match so Bednarek's attitude stinks. 

There's clearly more to that comment that what's in the public domain. Even if the Poland game is a higher priority, it's not as if they're the same weekend and he has to choose between them. If JB has some personal issue which Ralph hasn't mentioned then I'll leave it up to the latter to judge whether he's mentally fit to play.

[Whitey Grandad]

28 minutes ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

We can discuss this match all day long but what concerns me most of all is Ralph's statement that Bednarek did not play because his mind was not 100% for this game. Sorry, but am I missing something?  We have a quarter-final Cup tie and he isn't 100% about it! Seems as if the upcoming Poland game is more important to him. Ralph should have put his foot down and remind him who pays his wages. We needed our very best team for this match so Bednarek's attitude stinks. 

Remind him who pays his wages. 

[Totton Saint]

On 22/03/2022 at 08:35, Sarnia Cherie said:

We can discuss this match all day long but what concerns me most of all is Ralph's statement that Bednarek did not play because his mind was not 100% for this game. Sorry, but am I missing something?  We have a quarter-final Cup tie and he isn't 100% about it! Seems as if the upcoming Poland game is more important to him. Ralph should have put his foot down and remind him who pays his wages. We needed our very best team for this match so Bednarek's attitude stinks. 

it is only a friendly match - so something does not add up. Is Ralph a mind reader.?

Edited 23 March, 2022 by Totton Saint
spelling

[kitch]

On 21/03/2022 at 23:37, Saint86 said:

We scored the own goal in the second half did we 🤣

We didn't score an own goal, they did 😉

[The Cat]

7 hours ago, Totton Saint said:

it is only a friendly match - so something does not add up. Is Ralph a mind reader.?

They have a friendly first because they were meant to play Russia in the World Cup play off semi. The World Cup play off final is on 29th March and will be the important game Hasenhuttl was referring to.