Saints 1-2 Newcastle- Match Thread

[Pilchards]

3 hours ago, AndyRWatson said:

After the half time “cats” medley for West Ham, the tunes today seemed to be money related !

🎶 can’t buy me love, price tag, loaded and money money money 🎶

what next for Watford ?

Down down - Status Quo for starters.

[Saint86]

4 hours ago, hackedoff said:

Accept it then and stop squealing.

Lol right, you're the one "squealing" that our owners didn't invest significant money over January 🙄

[Dark Munster]

Meh. They were safe before the match anyway, and we are stuck in mid table. If we also lose to Watford, but then get past City I'll be happier than a pig in shit.

[Mr X]

We showed a few glimpses of what we are capable of but had no answers to a team that got plenty of people behind the ball, I don't think Newcastle were that much of a class above but our defending was shocking at times and they got lucky with a back heel strike that 99 times out of 100 wouldn't have hit the target.  

Tino not himself scared to beat his man.

Brojas worse game you can see he's getting angry at frustrated at himself and  others 

 

Dejenepo and AA tried to rally late on but again no end product from either of those.

 

Kwp at least tried to bring the attack some great runs from him but had too little support, Armstrong the Stuart variety his usual industrious self again needs better support 

[LGTL]

Frustrating game. Howe knew exactly what he was doing, so fair play to him for that as he was aware it was the only way they could beat us. 
 

Broja was poor, I’d be tempted to give him a rest on Sunday. I also think we look so much more balanced with Perraud on the pitch. I’d be playing KWP at RB and Perraud LB. 

[TWar]

5 hours ago, Pilchards said:

Down down - Status Quo for starters.

Down - blink 182

Sugar we're going down swinging - fall out boy

Some 2000s pop punk.

[Boris Karloff]

I thought we were OK. Like many have said, we didn't put any pressure on Shelvey for their first and then Bednarek on his heels again gave them a half chance for the second. Apart from that they did very little. 

After their second they stuck 11 men behind the ball and we struggled. I don't think Broja is very good in these situations. He needs to be cuter at trying to find space and Armstrong's movement was much better when he came on. 

In the first half KWP was having a lot of joy but in the second they doubled up on him and gave him no space at all. It meant a lot came through Tino on the right and he didn't do much with it. Would have been better to bring on Perraud and move KWP to the right. 

Hopefully, a learning opportunity. Because we haven't fallen behind too much lately we haven't had too many teams stick 11 men in their own half and we really struggled to create. 

None of the players had a real stinker. I thought JWP seemed to be a bit sluggish and was playing very deep all night. His corners were very average too. 

 

 

[Kenilworthy]

Did I miss the memo where it was said that shirt pulling is ok now? At least four times our players nearly had their shirts torn off their backs and Mr Friend did nothing.

[badgerx16]

12 minutes ago, Kenilworthy said:

Did I miss the memo where it was said that shirt pulling is ok now? At least four times our players nearly had their shirts torn off their backs and Mr Friend did nothing.

Money talks.

[Fatboy40]

11 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Money talks.

Money talks, money talks
Dirty cash I want you, dirty cash I need you, ooh

(The half time DJ is on fire at the moment, unlike Broja)

[Mr X]

Forgot to mention bednarek in my match assessment, he is a back up at best, why is he starting?, poor this season no positional awareness and gets beaten easily time and time again, we desperately need a better partner for Salisu!

[spyinthesky]

Like most Saints fans I always feel disappointed after a defeat.
However the performance was OK against a decent Newcastle team who have been given a new lease of life with the introduction of new management and players.
In these sort of games there are always fine line aspects of the game which affect the result.
In  our recent run we have probably benefitted from the majority.
Last night we saw Adams thunderous volley hit the underside of the bar and bounce out. Their keeper made an excellent save near the end to paw the ball away into the centre of the penalty area. On another day one of our players would have been perfectly positioned to equalise.
Also as Ralph mentioned the free kick given to Newcastle on the half way line just before their second goal was soft in the extreme.
We find it very difficult to thread our way through massed defences and unfortunately Broja was unable to make his presence felt against their back four. No real criticism as young players like Broja are not going to excel every game.
Ward Prowse and Romeu did well again in mid field and Stuey Armstrong ran his socks off.
For me the best Saints performance by a country mile was KWP.
Lets hope we dont continue the losing run on Sunday.
Watford are more or less at the last chance saloon so this could be an interesting game.

[CWD]

Every time we had a bit of momentum, one of them sat down. It was a very clever tactic but fucking annoying. Completely took the sting out of us. 

Shithousery of the highest level, but it worked.

[John Boy Saint]

6 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Forgot to mention bednarek in my match assessment, he is a back up at best, why is he starting?, poor this season no positional awareness and gets beaten easily time and time again, we desperately need a better partner for Salisu!

That’s the bugger with Lyanco being crocked, he maybe a tad green but him and Salisu both have presence and potentially the makings of an imposing partnership.

i emphasise - Potentially

[AlexLaw76]

13 minutes ago, CWD said:

Every time we had a bit of momentum, one of them sat down. It was a very clever tactic but fucking annoying. Completely took the sting out of us. 

Shithousery of the highest level, but it worked.

Almost like having a minor  'injury' around 65 mins?

[Mr X]

39 minutes ago, John Boy Saint said:

That’s the bugger with Lyanco being crocked, he maybe a tad green but him and Salisu both have presence and potentially the makings of an imposing partnership.

i emphasise - Potentially

Agreed lyanco seems erratic to say the least, but has that passion & presence and aggression to his game, there is potential there if he can build up a run of games 

[macca155]

42 minutes ago, John Boy Saint said:

That’s the bugger with Lyanco being crocked, he maybe a tad green but him and Salisu both have presence and potentially the makings of an imposing partnership.

i emphasise - Potentially

Lyanco definitely offers more than Bendarek. He provides more support for Tino for starters. No way would he have allowed a tall player that sort of space at the back post. In fairness I doubt Stephens would have either.

None of our defenders are front line PL quality. Not even Salisu at the moment although given a decent partner he'll flourish.

We really should have bought that guy from Forest when we had the chance. Although a gamble of course. 

Its so frustrating when we have three good full backs to be so weak in the middle.

Maybe Valery is the answer 😲

Finally shout out to Shane Long  Beat Burn to a header twice  the man has springs in his boots.

Edited 11 March, 2022 by macca155

[DT]

does anyone in the ticket office actually pick up the phone? 40 mins on hold so far

[tunit]

11 hours ago, HarvSFC said:

Their two scorers cost £58m between them, that's it, that's the difference. We can't spend a total of £58m in a summer transfer window after selling Ings and Vestergaard for £45m.

KWP the best Saints player on the pitch by a country mile and he's playing out of position. Livramento's been showing his age since he got kicked to bits against Aston Villa at home in November. He isn't ready yet, Perraud's looking better on the left, play KWP in his natural position and Perraud in his position.

Too much sideways passing, playing the easy ball, not enough intensity and you aren't going to beat Dan Burn aerially.

Funny thing is that I wouldn't actually swap any of our starting 11 for the two that scored their goals last night. Adams and Broja both better than Wood and JWP and Ori both better than that Bruno guy. 

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, CWD said:

Every time we had a bit of momentum, one of them sat down. It was a very clever tactic but fucking annoying. Completely took the sting out of us. 

Shithousery of the highest level, but it worked.

There’re a few rules I’d change about football. One of them is that if a player needs a physio on, the game carries on with them on the pitch. If that’s not possible, the ‘injured’ player has to leave the field for 5 minutes minimum whilst the game continues.

[JRM]

14 minutes ago, DT said:

does anyone in the ticket office actually pick up the phone? 40 mins on hold so far

Don't think so, I've been holding an hour , typical Saints 

[trousers]

46 minutes ago, macca155 said:

Lyanco definitely offers more than Bendarek. He provides more support for Tino for starters. No way would he have allowed a tall player that sort of space at the back post. In fairness I doubt Stephens would have either.

None of our defenders are front line PL quality. Not even Salisu at the moment although given a decent partner he'll flourish.

We really should have bought that guy from Forest when we had the chance. Although a gamble of course. 

Its so frustrating when we have three good full backs to be so weak in the middle.

Maybe Valery is the answer 😲

Finally shout out to Shane Long  Beat Burn to a header twice  the man has springs in his boots.

Maybe Shane Long is the answer....?!

[trousers]

2 hours ago, Kenilworthy said:

Did I miss the memo where it was said that shirt pulling is ok now? At least four times our players nearly had their shirts torn off their backs and Mr Friend did nothing.

This. Although our players seemingly couldn't be arsed to voiciferously complain about it to the ref either (as far as I could see)

Edited 11 March, 2022 by trousers

[Teddeer]

I think our system relies on opponents being happy to slug it out in midfield. Once that happens we are very adept at intercepting/nicking the ball higher up the pitch and then quickly transitioning into dangerous positions resulting in chances/goals. Newcastle, and Villa to a certain extent, seemed aware of this so not much of their play went through midfield. Instead they were content to hit long balls over the top into space which our defenders don't like. At the same time they kept a low block so we were forced to resort to the ineffectual passing sideways and backwards, recycling, rinse and repeat. Very frustrating and maybe Ralph needs a better plan B against these sort of opponents. Having said all that the two goals we conceded were largely due to us being very poor at defending crosses into our box - something else that needs to be addressed.

Edited 11 March, 2022 by Teddeer

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Almost like having a minor  'injury' around 65 mins?

Nothing like it. Their playacting was at a different level. How many times was it? I lost count at ten.

[derry]

The last two matches have been examples of some of the early season clusterfucks. Villa 62% possession Newcastle even worse 68% possession. Possession is based on the number of passes counted. We have inflated our possession percentage by painfully slow buildup short passing backwards and sideways and even when we are in the final third regularly bailing out and passing back even as far as Forster. Our pedestrian buildups allowed opponents to mass in front of their penalty area, waiting until they win possession and immediately attacking our centre backs especially Villa. The higher our possession the slower our attacks and the more consolidated the opponents defence.

I can't remember the exact figures he quoted but Ralph Hasnhuttl said something along the lines, press, win the ball back, pass it quickly forward and get a shot in under 20 secs. We are looking to do that during our good run but the last two that has been completely absent. Both Newcastle's goals came after a break, the first from a break and an early cross, the second from a corner conceded from the break.

If teams play like this we have to be even quicker at getting the ball forward but we have to have enough defenders in case of a breakdown. Letting eight players commit themselves in the last third leaving the two centrebacks exposed is crass. The quicker the ball goes forward the better our depth the slower our buildup the more players we have sucked into the attack and the more exposed we become.

The last two matches I've been tearing my hair out at the way we have played. Ok we've made some chances but we've scored one and conceded six.

[rallyboy]

Can we also bury the ridiculous cliche, they wanted it more.

No game has ever been won in this method, it is lazy nonesense.

Wood scored because he judged the flight of the cross better and had the skill and timing to meet it.

The second goal was a similar situation followed by a very cute finish.

No one wanted it less or more - goals normally come about through real things like judgement, talent, strength and timing.

 

As for the traffic - gridlocked in West End next to a traffic update board - does it tell us which M27 junctions are shut?

Does it fuck, it tells us that seatbelts save lives.

Thankfully I found a shortcut and got home because I wanted it more.

 

[sadoldgit]

We find it hard to break down teams who put everyone behind the ball, most teams do, that is why teams do it. Our style is better suited to teams who come out and attack us allowing us to operate in more space. Newcastle were very happy to give up possession after their second goal. It is frustrating watching the ball being rotated whilst the players try and find an opening but is lumping the ball into the “mixer” any less frustrating watching countless crosses getting headed away? We all want to see shots peppering their goal, but when you have got 10 we’ll drilled players in the way it really isn’t that easy. 

[tpv01]

31 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

Can we also bury the ridiculous cliche, they wanted it more.

No game has ever been won in this method, it is lazy nonesense.

Wood scored because he judged the flight of the cross better and had the skill and timing to meet it.

The second goal was a similar situation followed by a very cute finish.

No one wanted it less or more - goals normally come about through real things like judgement, talent, strength and timing.

 

As for the traffic - gridlocked in West End next to a traffic update board - does it tell us which M27 junctions are shut?

Does it fuck, it tells us that seatbelts save lives.

Thankfully I found a shortcut and got home because I wanted it more.

 

I think that is exactly how I would say they won it. They were first into tackles, won second balls and were prepared to do the "dirty stuff" to get the win. I saw a lot of bottled tackles. Saving themselves for the cup?

It wasnt pretty from newcastle but they got the win. Teams that use a free kick on the byline at half way to bomb one into the box to aim for all the 6 foot plus players they have just bought is not the type of football I like to watch but last night their style, and a bit of a timid approach by our players and manager (would have liked earlier subs), won it.

Definitely an unenjoyable loss based on: two losses on the trot after all that hope, goals made and scored by their new players that wouldnt have been there for the original fixture, their winning run has saved them, and making it only the second loss at home at all season with Newcastle being one of them which doesnt sound good.

[SNSUN]

Two trips to SMS this season, 2 losses and dayyum if I'm not starting another match thread. 😑 

 

First half was ok but we were poor second half. No movement in attack and Broja was poor. Adams worked hard but I really wished he'd scuffed the shot that hit the bar, he hit it too well. 

 

Better players on the pitch for us were KWP and Romeu, honourable mentions to Adams, Tino and Stu but I thought the rest were off the game. Too many off performances, it was like we were on the beach and Newcastle wanted it more. Mind you once they got their noses in front they time wasted like crazy. Horrible team. At least we lost to a clever goal.

 

I maintain if we had played them back in December we would have beaten them. All their new players played well.

 

Roll on my last trip of the season on Sunday. Please win. Please. 

[danjosaint]

1 hour ago, rallyboy said:

Can we also bury the ridiculous cliche, they wanted it more.

No game has ever been won in this method, it is lazy nonesense.

Wood scored because he judged the flight of the cross better and had the skill and timing to meet it.

The second goal was a similar situation followed by a very cute finish.

No one wanted it less or more - goals normally come about through real things like judgement, talent, strength and timing.

 

 

 

What a load of tosh, they won most 50/50s and if not won the 2nd ball especially in 2nd half, in the premier league if your off the pace a fraction you'll lose

[Toadhall Saint]

3 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Almost like having a minor  'injury' around 65 mins?

Nothing like it you mean

[Toadhall Saint]

1 hour ago, rallyboy said:

Can we also bury the ridiculous cliche, they wanted it more.

No game has ever been won in this method, it is lazy nonesense.

Wood scored because he judged the flight of the cross better and had the skill and timing to meet it.

The second goal was a similar situation followed by a very cute finish.

No one wanted it less or more - goals normally come about through real things like judgement, talent, strength and timing.

 

As for the traffic - gridlocked in West End next to a traffic update board - does it tell us which M27 junctions are shut?

Does it fuck, it tells us that seatbelts save lives.

Thankfully I found a shortcut and got home because I wanted it more.

 

The cute finish could have gone anywhere - think he was surprised it had gone in.

[Yozzman]

4 hours ago, Kenilworthy said:

Did I miss the memo where it was said that shirt pulling is ok now? At least four times our players nearly had their shirts torn off their backs and Mr Friend did nothing.

Agreed there were 2 shirt pulls in the box on Djenepo and Salisu but VAR do nothing.

[trousers]

1 hour ago, rallyboy said:

it is lazy nonesense

Yeah, a bit like some of the spelling on here...  

[trousers]

38 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

Two trips to SMS this season, 2 losses

Roll on my last trip of the season on Sunday. 

No offence but.... please stay the f*** away from St Mary's this weekend.... 😂

[AlexLaw76]

51 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

We find it hard to break down teams who put everyone behind the ball, most teams do, that is why teams do it. Our style is better suited to teams who come out and attack us allowing us to operate in more space. Newcastle were very happy to give up possession after their second goal. It is frustrating watching the ball being rotated whilst the players try and find an opening but is lumping the ball into the “mixer” any less frustrating watching countless crosses getting headed away? We all want to see shots peppering their goal, but when you have got 10 we’ll drilled players in the way it really isn’t that easy. 

Agree with you. Hopefully, Watford being pretty crap, and needing wins, they will be more open against us

[Mystic Force]

This one did not hurt as much as Villa, there we didn't turn up, this one we could not quite get it done. Perrud on the left makes us more balanced, KWP's runs are great but if we need to defend we need the real LB, KWP should have been on the right better than Tino currently. I think what is really hurting us is Romeu is not playing as well as he was a few weeks ago, worried he might be carrying an injury, he is vital to the way we play allowing JWP and fullbacks to go forward, and we have no one else with that same skill set to replace him.

[Whitey Grandad]

A high pressing game is not going to be effective if the opposition can take as many sit-down timeouts as they like whenever they feel like it.

[Chris cooper]

30 minutes ago, Mystic Force said:

This one did not hurt as much as Villa, there we didn't turn up, this one we could not quite get it done. Perrud on the left makes us more balanced, KWP's runs are great but if we need to defend we need the real LB, KWP should have been on the right better than Tino currently. I think what is really hurting us is Romeu is not playing as well as he was a few weeks ago, worried he might be carrying an injury, he is vital to the way we play allowing JWP and fullbacks to go forward, and we have no one else with that same skill set to replace him.

Yep 👍🏻 definitely Romeu has dropped in intensity… hes normally all over the middle of the pitch but was way off last night.. he is pivotal the way we play he needs a rest for hornets game.

bring him back for the 1/4 finals.

Kwp was our best player last night but on the left still has to check and cut inside on his right foot .. Newcastle came with a plan and executed it very well .. beat Watford and get bang up for city game .

[Saint Garrett]

3 hours ago, tunit said:

Funny thing is that I wouldn't actually swap any of our starting 11 for the two that scored their goals last night. Adams and Broja both better than Wood and JWP and Ori both better than that Bruno guy. 

I think Bruno looked absolutely class last night, you can tell he was a different level to the rest of their cloggers.   I think by the end of next season, he could be a real star in this league.

Edited 11 March, 2022 by Saint Garrett

[rallyboy]

It's a bit worrying if some people honestly believe that Prowsie didn't want it as much as Targett, or Romeu didn't want it enough as, well, anyone, or that Forster would have had a clean sheet if only he'd wanted it a bit more - it's tired nonsense peddled by lazy commentators.

Winning second balls is not as simple as wanting it more - it's primarily a blend of judgement, timing, positioning, technical ability and anticipation.

Hopefully Ralph will be taking the practical approach of working on tactics, training and player-improvement, the areas that will actually change games.

[Charlie Wayman]

We didn't play badly last night but we did play without conviction or confidence and it showed in hesitancy and lack of creativity. It was all a bit flat and lacklustre.

Obviously the heavy defeat at Villa Park has taken its toll on morale which is perhaps one problem with a young team.

It is invidious to pick out some players as being more culpable than others but Broja never got into the game for the second match in a row and needs perhaps to cool off on the bench for a few weeks. With only a few games to play this season and the very unlikely scenario that he will be a Saints player next year, one wonders whether now is the time to drop Broja to the bench and give Adam Armstrong a run of games and one last chance to redeem himself this season.

Livramento was ineffective, hesitant and altogether too cautious, memories of the dynamic young ace storming the right wing and threatening opposition goalmouths are beginning to fade. I agree absolutely with others on here that we should start a few matches with KWP / Perraud as our wing backs.

The biggest disappointment for me was our blinkered and unimaginative forward play, time after time and fruitlessly trying to play through their lines, when it was perfectly clear to all that after the first umpteen attempts it was never going to work. Why didn't Ralph or any of his coaches wake up to where this was heading and change tactics? A few long balls into the box and on heads may not look particularly stylish but it worked for the Toon and it would probably have worked for us as well.

Only Ralph knows why our best player on the night was subbed early on. If it was a precaution we must hope and pray that he is not heading to the sick bay for a few weeks.

 

[Saint_clark]

Still really pissed off about their goalscorers both being new signings in January.

[Graffito]

1 hour ago, rallyboy said:

It's a bit worrying if some people honestly believe that Prowsie didn't want it as much as Targett, or Romeu didn't want it enough as, well, anyone, or that Forster would have had a clean sheet if only he'd wanted it a bit more - it's tired nonsense peddled by lazy commentators.

Winning second balls is not as simple as wanting it more - it's primarily a blend of judgement, timing, positioning, technical ability and anticipation.

Hopefully Ralph will be taking the practical approach of working on tactics, training and player-improvement, the areas that will actually change games.

It was less obvious last night than against Villa. It’s real. It’s a factor in the outcome of matches. I was at both matches and it was as clear as day from the first minute at Villa. They wanted it more, as RH acknowledged https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/football-news/hasenhuttl-southampton-aston-villa-newcastle-6778668

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said:

We didn't play badly last night but we did play without conviction or confidence and it showed in hesitancy and lack of creativity. It was all a bit flat and lacklustre.

Obviously the heavy defeat at Villa Park has taken its toll on morale which is perhaps one problem with a young team.

It is invidious to pick out some players as being more culpable than others but Broja never got into the game for the second match in a row and needs perhaps to cool off on the bench for a few weeks. With only a few games to play this season and the very unlikely scenario that he will be a Saints player next year, one wonders whether now is the time to drop Broja to the bench and give Adam Armstrong a run of games and one last chance to redeem himself this season.

Livramento was ineffective, hesitant and altogether too cautious, memories of the dynamic young ace storming the right wing and threatening opposition goalmouths are beginning to fade. I agree absolutely with others on here that we should start a few matches with KWP / Perraud as our wing backs.

The biggest disappointment for me was our blinkered and unimaginative forward play, time after time and fruitlessly trying to play through their lines, when it was perfectly clear to all that after the first umpteen attempts it was never going to work. Why didn't Ralph or any of his coaches wake up to where this was heading and change tactics? A few long balls into the box and on heads may not look particularly stylish but it worked for the Toon and it would probably have worked for us as well.

Only Ralph knows why our best player on the night was subbed early on. If it was a precaution we must hope and pray that he is not heading to the sick bay for a few weeks.

 

The long ball worked for them because there were very few players in the box and the ball in was perfect and found a player who puts those away.  Lumping it into a crowded area works occasionally as does trying to thread balls through a packed defence but it isn’t the same as their first goal. They were much stronger in the air at the back. As for KWP. He has scored and provided assists from left back and I really don’t see the problem playing him there. For me he is excellent and a real threat on either flank.

[Toadhall Saint]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

Still really pissed off about their goalscorers both being new signings in January.

Yep feel the same. Would have felt pissed off just losing to Sandcastle united but who scored just rubs salt into the wounds. 🤬

[Chez]

7 hours ago, Mr X said:

Forgot to mention bednarek in my match assessment, he is a back up at best, why is he starting?

Because we ain't got anyone better.

We signed Lyanco on a shoestring and got what we paid for. Stephens looks he's carrying a midlife spread, and Valery isn't ever going to make a top class CB. It sounds like Dynel Simeu is finding his feet at Carlise. Kayne Ramsey (no idea why he was given an extended pro contract) isn't going to make the leap from Ross County to the Prem overnight/ever.

Salisu could well leave in the summer, so CB will be very much a position of need.

 

 

[Chez]

2 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

It is invidious to pick out some players as being more culpable than others but Broja never got into the game for the second match in a row and needs perhaps to cool off on the bench for a few weeks. With only a few games to play this season and the very unlikely scenario that he will be a Saints player next year, one wonders whether now is the time to drop Broja to the bench and give Adam Armstrong a run of games and one last chance to redeem himself this season.

I have no problem with Armstrong getting more game time. He started brightly, before his form and confidence dipped and it can easily return.

However, there is still a lot of football to play, not least an FA Cup match, which although incredibly tough, is still winnable.

Broja is the ideal player for a team hitting teams on the break - as we will be against City. Maybe he's not ideally suited to games where opponents drop men deep and limit the space behind for him to play in. I have to say I am surprised just how quickly some on here (no saying you specifically) seemed to have turned on him after a few under par performances. 

[Chez]

3 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

I think Bruno looked absolutely class last night, you can tell he was a different level to the rest of their cloggers.   I think by the end of next season, he could be a real star in this league.

Interesting. Goal apart, I didn't really notice him or any of their players. It was all us. I will have to take a look at a Newcastle game in the next few weeks.