Simon Clifford

[Turkish]

Remember him from part of the Lowe?Woodward era. Founder of Brazilian soccer schools, treated with distain by the backroom staff and his time here lasted only two months, part of the plan to revolutionise training at Saints

 

Why Woodward's coach had to leave Southampton | Football | The Guardian

Maybe he's now having the last laugh 

How Futsal's 'hothouse laboratory' honed the skills of Arsenal wonderkid Charlie Patino (inews.co.uk)

Edited 4 February, 2022 by Turkish

[Badger]

That links to a Twitter page of Simon Darcy Clifford. 

No wonder he got on well with Rupert.

Would have had the piss taken out of him a lot more if his full name had been known.

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, Badger said:

That links to a Twitter page of Simon Darcy Clifford. 

No wonder he got on well with Rupert.

Would have had the piss taken out of him a lot more if his full name had been known.

Looks like his whole thing with Futsal was right though. It was commented on the other day during a live match about a centre half who was two footed, the commentator said he started off playing futsal which may explain why hes so comfortable on the ball.

[LiberalCommunist]

Another bow to Ruperts legacy.

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Remember him from part of the Lowe?Woodward era. Founder of Brazilian soccer schools, treated with distain by the backroom staff and his time here lasted only two months, part of the plan to revolutionise training at Saints

 

Why Woodward's coach had to leave Southampton | Football | The Guardian

Maybe he's now having the last laugh 

How Futsal's 'hothouse laboratory' honed the skills of Arsenal wonderkid Charlie Patino (inews.co.uk)

For every kid developed by Clifford, they'll be one thousand whose careers have been changed by Dave Bassett and Dennis Wise.

[Mystic Force]

Thanks for that ever forward thinking manager Harry Redknapp, normally about where that next brown envelope would be.

[The Kraken]

Clifford had some useful ideas but, my god, the man was a helmet.

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Clifford had some useful ideas but, my god, the man was a helmet.

Apparently so. He set up the club my lad plays at which is now run by another guy who is also an ex teacher. he’s a decent bloke and big on discipline. 
 

In fairness futsal is brilliant. my son has been going twice a week for about 2 months and has progressed more in that time than in nearly a year at a league 2 academy. Touch, control, passing with both feet and finding space and shooting first time have been transformed. Some of the kids there are really good players. Archie Gray who was on the bench for Leeds the other week at 15 years old went through his club plus my mates son who has just left Bradford. 

Edited 4 February, 2022 by Turkish

[Monk]

The bloke by all accounts is bit of a bellend but credit where it's due, he was the original one waxing lyrical about futsal/futbol de Salao ( or whatever it was originally called).

The FA had a 3/4 year spell where it really pushed Futsal which recently lost a majority of its funding after COVID. Nationally, grassroots clubs and leagues promote it especially in their foundation phases, as it encourages ball mastery and dominating 1v1's (it's also actually very good at teaching players to steal possession rather than tackle* as you cannot slide). Incredibly good game to help get fit as it's very demanding physically!

Any of you coaching your kids teams, I'd highly recommend looking at using it to support your players, shame the Futsal Level 1 & 2 has been suspended. 

[Badger]

4 hours ago, LiberalCommunist said:

Another bow to Ruperts legacy.

 

3 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Clifford had some useful ideas but, my god, the man was a helmet.

Think the same could be said of Rupert, the Head Helmet at the time. Bringing Sir Clive and some of his ideas in wasn't as bizarre as it seemed at the time, but the timing of it after relegation when we could ill afford it, and trying to marry 'new' sports science with 'Arry was never going to work.

[Turkish]

his latest venture appears to be doing very well too, some good young players coming through this. PLus with his local FDS club they've got quite a few players in local league and non-league football teams

Integer

 

Edited 24 November, 2022 by Turkish

[farawaysaint]

On 04/02/2022 at 23:25, Badger said:

 

Think the same could be said of Rupert, the Head Helmet at the time. Bringing Sir Clive and some of his ideas in wasn't as bizarre as it seemed at the time, but the timing of it after relegation when we could ill afford it, and trying to marry 'new' sports science with 'Arry was never going to work.

We were also the first? Football club in England to have an eye gym which has now been used by numerous premier league clubs.

In a lot of ways we were really ahead of the curve at the time but we didn’t have the financial clout or strong leadership for it to actually matter. 

[bpsaint]

Ahhh yes, Simon Clifford, the brains behind the mighty Garforth Town, wonderkid Jason St Juste, and their futsal inspired march into the football league. How is that going these days?.

[spyinthesky]

When Woopert was at the helm he helped steer Garforth to relegation from Northern League Division One to Northern Counties League East.

He then changed tack to concentrate his energies as an MEP for the Reform party and is now looking after his other interests including farming, his electrical business and generally being a pain in the arris.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, bpsaint said:

Ahhh yes, Simon Clifford, the brains behind the mighty Garforth Town, wonderkid Jason St Juste, and their futsal inspired march into the football league. How is that going these days?.

In fairness, it's not really going to work for players in their 20s and new to it, it's absolutely brilliant for kids though. Some of the things they can do with a ball are night and day to the "get rid of it" when i played at that age where the players who were big and fast did well but anyone else didn't get a look in.

My lad is 9 and has been going for nearly a year now along with 2 other lads from his saturday team plus another has just signed up after his parents saw the difference it's made. The touch, skill, speed of though and movement and awareness they are miles ahead of the rest of the team and lot of other players in the league. It's coming through in results too, last season was their first year playing competitive football and they struggled getting beaten most weeks, sometimes quite heavily, they lost one game this season so far and really should have won that, they've drew 4-4 with a team who hadn't lost in 2 years and who beat them 8-0 last season. The biggest problem we have is that we have a strong 8 or 9 players then 2-3 not so good but if they're all there they have to get a fair amount of game time each regardles of score or ability. I honestly think if those rules weren't in place they'd have won every game so far. 

[ecuk268]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

In fairness, it's not really going to work for players in their 20s and new to it, it's absolutely brilliant for kids though. Some of the things they can do with a ball are night and day to the "get rid of it" when i played at that age where the players who were big and fast did well but anyone else didn't get a look in.

My lad is 9 and has been going for nearly a year now along with 2 other lads from his saturday team plus another has just signed up after his parents saw the difference it's made. The touch, skill, speed of though and movement and awareness they are miles ahead of the rest of the team and lot of other players in the league. It's coming through in results too, last season was their first year playing competitive football and they struggled getting beaten most weeks, sometimes quite heavily, they lost one game this season so far and really should have won that, they've drew 4-4 with a team who hadn't lost in 2 years and who beat them 8-0 last season. The biggest problem we have is that we have a strong 8 or 9 players then 2-3 not so good but if they're all there they have to get a fair amount of game time each regardles of score or ability. I honestly think if those rules weren't in place they'd have won every game so far. 

That's one of the problems with kid's football.

Do you go all out to win and only select the best players or do you give everyone a chance and not get too bothered about results?

When my lad played in the Tyro League, Winsor were the standout side but, no matter how long you'd been with them, if they found someone better you'd be out.

I used to go to all his games and it was interesting to see the difference between different clubs. Sone went all out to win but others just wanted the kids to enjoy themselves even if they weren't that good.

[Turkish]

39 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

That's one of the problems with kid's football.

Do you go all out to win and only select the best players or do you give everyone a chance and not get too bothered about results?

When my lad played in the Tyro League, Winsor were the standout side but, no matter how long you'd been with them, if they found someone better you'd be out.

I used to go to all his games and it was interesting to see the difference between different clubs. Sone went all out to win but others just wanted the kids to enjoy themselves even if they weren't that good.

The official rule now is at our age groups (under 10s) is that all kids have to get equal game time.  Some clubs don’t enforce it, ours does which means you get kids who aren’t really interested only there because their friends play or parents make them but if they turn up and want to play they have to get equal time regardless of ability. There is one club in the area that hoover up a lot of players and have 3 teams at each age group but they have about 40 registered players and will move them up and down the teams, some don’t even play so a lot of the players and parents are unhappy that whilst they’re a good team with good facilities they don’t have a good club spirit and the players never really bond as they’re constantly moving up and down teams depending on their recent performances. They’ve approached some of ours but they’ve all said they want to stay with us. Ridiculous at the age of 8 and 9.

difficult one and see it from both sides the better players that are super keen get frustrated because they are off the pitch while players no where near as good get their time on but most of the time are just standing around not really that interested in being there, but then you’ve got to let them play if they want to. It’s frustrating,  like the game we lost 2-1, both their goals were scored when 2 of the 3 weaker players were on, then one of them missed an open goal from about a foot out. Everyone was disappointed to lose and some of the better competitive players were very frustrated by it but it is what it is. 
 

Generally we’ve got a really good set up and the parents are supportive, as we do tell the kids and parents that at their age it’s about enjoying it and developing rather than results, but sometimes it’s really frustrating that kids who aren’t really that interested and would rather be in the playground or patting dogs are taking game time from players who love being there and are always first to arrive and last to leave both matches and training 

 

 

Edited 24 November, 2022 by Turkish

[The Cat]

1 hour ago, ecuk268 said:

That's one of the problems with kid's football.

Do you go all out to win and only select the best players or do you give everyone a chance and not get too bothered about results?

When my lad played in the Tyro League, Winsor were the standout side but, no matter how long you'd been with them, if they found someone better you'd be out.

I used to go to all his games and it was interesting to see the difference between different clubs. Sone went all out to win but others just wanted the kids to enjoy themselves even if they weren't that good.

When my son played Tyro they did the equal game time thing until about U13 then stopped because they became one of the best teams and wanted to win stuff.

A couple of kids and their parents got a bit shitty when they didn't get on but they weren't at the same level and in close games it would make the difference when they were on the pitch. They ended up leaving and playing for teams that fitted their level more. 

They weren't ruthless like Windsor and mainly got in better players when others left. They kept the core of the team from U7 onwards and went on to win everything before splitting at the end of the U15 season when the manager quit. Was loads of fun watching the team and the boys progress.

[niceandfriendly]

Bloody Windsor used to give us nightmares. 

[Weston Super Saint]

On 04/02/2022 at 19:49, Turkish said:

Apparently so. He set up the club my lad plays at which is now run by another guy who is also an ex teacher. he’s a decent bloke and big on discipline. 
 

In fairness futsal is brilliant. my son has been going twice a week for about 2 months and has progressed more in that time than in nearly a year at a league 2 academy. Touch, control, passing with both feet and finding space and shooting first time have been transformed. Some of the kids there are really good players. Archie Gray who was on the bench for Leeds the other week at 15 years old went through his club plus my mates son who has just left Bradford. 

Is it too late to send Adams and Armstrong?

[John Boy Saint]

On 24/11/2022 at 12:48, farawaysaint said:

We were also the first? Football club in England to have an eye gym which has now been used by numerous premier league clubs.

In a lot of ways we were really ahead of the curve at the time but we didn’t have the financial clout or strong leadership for it to actually matter. 

Never got off the ground - Redknap poo pooed it as witchcraft Hocus Pocus or some such - the main aspect of it was to widen the periferal vision of the players. The head Wizard Woodward also with a stick in the bubbling Staplewood, had the lady doing it as part of the Rugby World Cup winning team back room staff. 
Can’t recall her name, but heard it mentioned by Gold Medal GB Olympians: and possibly the Lionesses in the Euros preparations 

[Turkish]

Archie Gray just about to get a £35m move to the premier league by all accounts in these parts Harry is an even bigger prospect, Clifford coached them both from The age of 6 

[East Kent Saint]

I was quite hopeful when this type of training was anounced at Saints plus Clive Woodward and disappointed when 'arry just dismised it  .

Watching Real etc players who can receive the ball and pass it on when under pressure plus have that skill to disposess the oppositon player by taking the ball and taking control of it is impressive , I wonder if they use a similar training program.

[Turkish]

On 30/06/2024 at 08:23, East Kent Saint said:

I was quite hopeful when this type of training was anounced at Saints plus Clive Woodward and disappointed when 'arry just dismised it  .

Watching Real etc players who can receive the ball and pass it on when under pressure plus have that skill to disposess the oppositon player by taking the ball and taking control of it is impressive , I wonder if they use a similar training program.

Well he got it from Brazil so wouldn't surprise me if was similar. Where i live he set up a football school based on that sort of training, it's now run by other people but it's all about ball mastery, they do lots of small sided games, skill challenges and each kids has their own challenges they have to do, my lad has just turned 11 he's be going for 2 1/2 years and just got his level 3 certificate, for it he had to do challenges like 100 kick ups, 25 outside and 25 insides, with stronger and weaker feet, the idea being that the player can completely master the ball, great first touch, be able to recieve the ball and control it with your laces, inside and outside of the foot  and also be two footed. Some kids stop doing it because they get bored and some parents (who generally know nothing about football) moan about it saying it's just loads of kick ups they can do at home. When you see them playing for their sunday clubs their technical ability is head and shoulders above the rest. My lad is quite small and lightweight for his age but can control the ball out of the sky with one touch every single time, there are 5 in his team that do it and their touch, control, passing and movement is on a different level. 

[Turkish]

Simon features quite a bit in the Sky program about Archie Gray. He did a lot of one to one training with him whilst he was growing up talks about that and his early days at his Brazilian soccer school in Harrogate. On a seperate note my U12 team which my son plays for beat Archies youngest brothers team 1-0 in a tournament two weeks ago. Turkish tactical masterclass. 🤣

[Patches O Houlihan]

12 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Turkish tactical masterclass. 🤣

Best pull your finger out then and offer some advice; there's a lanky Nigerian bloke we need to shoehorn into a Süper Lig side sharpish

[spyinthesky]

On 01/07/2024 at 13:59, Turkish said:

Well he got it from Brazil so wouldn't surprise me if was similar. Where i live he set up a football school based on that sort of training, it's now run by other people but it's all about ball mastery, they do lots of small sided games, skill challenges and each kids has their own challenges they have to do, my lad has just turned 11 he's be going for 2 1/2 years and just got his level 3 certificate, for it he had to do challenges like 100 kick ups, 25 outside and 25 insides, with stronger and weaker feet, the idea being that the player can completely master the ball, great first touch, be able to recieve the ball and control it with your laces, inside and outside of the foot  and also be two footed. Some kids stop doing it because they get bored and some parents (who generally know nothing about football) moan about it saying it's just loads of kick ups they can do at home. When you see them playing for their sunday clubs their technical ability is head and shoulders above the rest. My lad is quite small and lightweight for his age but can control the ball out of the sky with one touch every single time, there are 5 in his team that do it and their touch, control, passing and movement is on a different level. 

Interesting post.
Made me recollect when I was a kid, we used to play one touch in the road on our estate as hardly anyone had a car.
if the ball hit the kerb you lost a point.
We played for hours and myself and a couple of pals were proficient with both feet as a consequence
I also spent a good deal of time throwing and kicking a ball against our back wall to develop reactions.
We had very limited money or options to watch a screen so these sort of skills were developed by many kids when I was young but the football boots, balls, pitches, kit etc etc were very different to what is available to youngsters nowadays.

[gallaghert366@yahoo.com]

38 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

Interesting post.
Made me recollect when I was a kid, we used to play one touch in the road on our estate as hardly anyone had a car.
if the ball hit the kerb you lost a point.
We played for hours and myself and a couple of pals were proficient with both feet as a consequence
I also spent a good deal of time throwing and kicking a ball against our back wall to develop reactions.
We had very limited money or options to watch a screen so these sort of skills were developed by many kids when I was young but the football boots, balls, pitches, kit etc etc were very different to what is available to youngsters nowadays.

Out of interest, what level did you get to?

[spyinthesky]

42 minutes ago, gallaghert366@yahoo.com said:

Out of interest, what level did you get to?

Semi Pro at Football but a bit disappointed that I didnt make the mark at cricket or tennis.

Football skills were pretty decent but needed more stature and fitness to progress but did OK.

All that said I loved playing the game from an early age to 40+ and made lots of friends and still have plenty of memories including playing at Wembley.

[danjosaint]

On 01/07/2024 at 13:59, Turkish said:

Well he got it from Brazil so wouldn't surprise me if was similar. Where i live he set up a football school based on that sort of training, it's now run by other people but it's all about ball mastery, they do lots of small sided games, skill challenges and each kids has their own challenges they have to do, my lad has just turned 11 he's be going for 2 1/2 years and just got his level 3 certificate, for it he had to do challenges like 100 kick ups, 25 outside and 25 insides, with stronger and weaker feet, the idea being that the player can completely master the ball, great first touch, be able to recieve the ball and control it with your laces, inside and outside of the foot  and also be two footed. Some kids stop doing it because they get bored and some parents (who generally know nothing about football) moan about it saying it's just loads of kick ups they can do at home. When you see them playing for their sunday clubs their technical ability is head and shoulders above the rest. My lad is quite small and lightweight for his age but can control the ball out of the sky with one touch every single time, there are 5 in his team that do it and their touch, control, passing and movement is on a different level. 

Very similar to my daughter, she/her team are the u13s futsal national champions, futsal has been great for her and as it is the 8 in her futsal team are also apart of there 14 girl squad that are jpl national champions, the touch and control of the 8 are head and shoulders above even the better teams in the jpl, looking back at a post a few up it was Max kilman who played for England futsal before even getting a pro club 

[hypochondriac]

Think I mentioned before that my brother in law was a professional footballer who played at Saint Mary's, scored at Wembley etc. It was really eye opening to me how obsessed he was with football and honing his skills with his dad from a very young age. I wasn't bad at football but never anywhere near professional. I just didn't have the interest to that degree or the skill! 

Edited September 13 by hypochondriac

[Turkish]

4 hours ago, danjosaint said:

Very similar to my daughter, she/her team are the u13s futsal national champions, futsal has been great for her and as it is the 8 in her futsal team are also apart of there 14 girl squad that are jpl national champions, the touch and control of the 8 are head and shoulders above even the better teams in the jpl, looking back at a post a few up it was Max kilman who played for England futsal before even getting a pro club 

 

6 hours ago, spyinthesky said:

Interesting post.
Made me recollect when I was a kid, we used to play one touch in the road on our estate as hardly anyone had a car.
if the ball hit the kerb you lost a point.
We played for hours and myself and a couple of pals were proficient with both feet as a consequence
I also spent a good deal of time throwing and kicking a ball against our back wall to develop reactions.
We had very limited money or options to watch a screen so these sort of skills were developed by many kids when I was young but the football boots, balls, pitches, kit etc etc were very different to what is available to youngsters nowadays.

The way they teach is similar. It’s all about getting as many touches of the ball as you can, practising first touch, dribbles and skills using the sole, inside and outside of the foot on both feet and doing it over and over again. As I mentioned some kids get bored with it. My sons current challenge is 50 weaker foot outside keep ups which is about half way to his level 4.  Some friends and other parents say what’s the point of doing 50 keep ups with the outside of your weaker foot you’d never do that in a game. The point being that if they can learn to do it 50 Times in a row then the chances are they’ll be able to do it automatically in a match on the handful of times they need to. Not to mention the amount of touches you’re getting with your weaker foot, the balance, coordination and strength you’re building and also the dedication to do something like that which is bloody hard to do. The claim is that once you’ve competed level 5 your first touch will be world class. How true that is I don’t know but you can see it’s far better than most kids of a similar age.
 

as for Clifford he might be a bit of a strange one but you can’t really fault his methods. The players that stick with the Brazilian soccer school he started are generally very good players technically and stand out at the level they play at in kids football, his one to one coaching has helped a whole host of current pros, he’s got players he coached playing in all 4 professional leagues in England plus many at non league level. The current coaches at his school did his school themselves completing the  5 levels and now play at a good semi pro level as well as being football coaches so it works. 

[Dark Munster]

6 hours ago, danjosaint said:

Very similar to my daughter, she/her team are the u13s futsal national champions, futsal has been great for her and as it is the 8 in her futsal team are also apart of there 14 girl squad that are jpl national champions, the touch and control of the 8 are head and shoulders above even the better teams in the jpl, looking back at a post a few up it was Max kilman who played for England futsal before even getting a pro club 

Futsal also had quite a positive impact a few years ago on a young kid in Argentina named Messi.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

14 hours ago, Turkish said:

Simon features quite a bit in the Sky program about Archie Gray. He did a lot of one to one training with him whilst he was growing up talks about that and his early days at his Brazilian soccer school in Harrogate. On a seperate note my U12 team which my son plays for beat Archies youngest brothers team 1-0 in a tournament two weeks ago. Turkish tactical masterclass. 🤣

Can't believe you are young enough to have a son U12!!!

[Dark Munster]

12 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Can't believe you are young enough to have a son U12!!!

[Turkish]

Just revisiting this I’m sure there are a few other coaches of kids teams here and it’s quite sad to see that despite all the coaching and protocols out there now in grassroots football teams are still dominated by the big physical kids. It’s really noticeable now at u12s and u13s that a lot of the smaller more skillful kids are struggling to adapt to bigger pitches and 11 a side whilst the kids who have already hit puberty and are in some cases a foot taller and 10-15 kilos heavier despite not having the technical ability so stronger and quicker are now dominating matches. Inevitable I guess as for many clubs there is still the win at all costs ethos. We played a team Sunday which ended in a 3-3 draw, we take a squad of 11 every week and make sure everyone gets 45 minutes the other team full of big strong kids with 4 subs they didn’t make a sub until 48 mins and two kids only got 3 minutes. They looked decent to me too but surprise surprise they were the smallest kids.  how are they meant to develop when they’re getting 3 minutes game time because the coach is focusing on winning rather than developing the kids. Kids like this will lose a year or two maybe quit all together despite having ability, who is going to want to stand on the touch line for 50 minutes every week only coming on for a token few minutes or when they’re already 3 or 4 nil up? 

Edited October 17 by Turkish

[Wade Garrett]

Glad I had daughters.  Dropped them off at dancing and went back to pick them up about 4 hours later.

Absolute piece of piss.  

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Glad I had daughters.  Dropped them off at dancing and went back to pick them up about 4 hours later.

Absolute piece of piss.  

Then you’ll have these little shits sniffing round them, god knows what I’d be like if I had a daughters I’m bad enough with a boy 🤣

[Ted Bates Statue]

43 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Glad I had daughters.  Dropped them off at dancing and went back to pick them up about 4 hours later.

Absolute piece of piss.  

This is you, but you don't know it yet

[Colinjb]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Just revisiting this I’m sure there are a few other coaches of kids teams here and it’s quite sad to see that despite all the coaching and protocols out there now in grassroots football teams are still dominated by the big physical kids. It’s really noticeable now at u12s and u13s that a lot of the smaller more skillful kids are struggling to adapt to bigger pitches and 11 a side whilst the kids who have already hit puberty and are in some cases a foot taller and 10-15 kilos heavier despite not having the technical ability so stronger and quicker are now dominating matches. Inevitable I guess as for many clubs there is still the win at all costs ethos. We played a team Sunday which ended in a 3-3 draw, we take a squad of 11 every week and make sure everyone gets 45 minutes the other team full of big strong kids with 4 subs they didn’t make a sub until 48 mins and two kids only got 3 minutes. They looked decent to me too but surprise surprise they were the smallest kids.  how are they meant to develop when they’re getting 3 minutes game time because the coach is focusing on winning rather than developing the kids. Kids like this will lose a year or two maybe quit all together despite having ability, who is going to want to stand on the touch line for 50 minutes every week only coming on for a token few minutes or when they’re already 3 or 4 nil up? 

Noticed this a lot when I used to coach.

Floated the idea with my assistant manager at the time of maybe putting the kids into height/weight categories rather then age. Allow there to be a skill rather then physical focus.

[Turkish]

9 minutes ago, Colinjb said:

Noticed this a lot when I used to coach.

Floated the idea with my assistant manager at the time of maybe putting the kids into height/weight categories rather then age. Allow there to be a skill rather then physical focus.

That's actually a very good idea and has been muted on various coaching groups im a member of. At the moment kids can play a year up but not a year down. That's fine for bigger kids but we've got one kid in our team who was born on the 28th of August so is regularly playing kids almost a year older which is a huge difference when you're 10 and 11 in so many nows. Now at U12s some of them look 4-5 years older. My lad is very good technically and was way ahead of most at U9s and 10 now he's now 11 will be 12 in April and the second smallest the team he is the weight of an average 9 year old and the height of a short 10 year old, so he's going up against kids regularly who are much, much bigger stronger and quicker now. The difference a year between U11s and U12s makes is startling. It'll probably do him good long term when he grows being used to playing bigger kids but frustrating for him now. Strangely for me i was the total opposite, i was the biggest kid in the school at 11 and 12 looked 16 so was one of the stars of the team, but by the time we got to 14-15 everything had changed and being able to stroll through games without trying and still be the best player was a massive shock

[BarberSaint]

On 13/09/2024 at 17:34, spyinthesky said:

Interesting post.
Made me recollect when I was a kid, we used to play one touch in the road on our estate as hardly anyone had a car.
if the ball hit the kerb you lost a point.
We played for hours and myself and a couple of pals were proficient with both feet as a consequence
I also spent a good deal of time throwing and kicking a ball against our back wall to develop reactions.
We had very limited money or options to watch a screen so these sort of skills were developed by many kids when I was young but the football boots, balls, pitches, kit etc etc were very different to what is available to youngsters nowadays.

 

 

Think a lot of us did similar.  Also wall ball with your weak foot moving towards the wall so it came back faster and faster and shifting between your feet and both sides of your feet and taking balls at different heights, etc.  Experimenting, really.

We did also play multiple ages so 9 year olds with 16 year olds. I suppose size might have something to do with it but when you tried and shoulder-charge an older lad, you'd just bounce off but in a restricted area e.g. 5 a side pitch that tends to lessen the effect of physical size.

[Osvaldorama]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

That's actually a very good idea and has been muted on various coaching groups im a member of. At the moment kids can play a year up but not a year down. That's fine for bigger kids but we've got one kid in our team who was born on the 28th of August so is regularly playing kids almost a year older which is a huge difference when you're 10 and 11 in so many nows. Now at U12s some of them look 4-5 years older. My lad is very good technically and was way ahead of most at U9s and 10 now he's now 11 will be 12 in April and the second smallest the team he is the weight of an average 9 year old and the height of a short 10 year old, so he's going up against kids regularly who are much, much bigger stronger and quicker now. The difference a year between U11s and U12s makes is startling. It'll probably do him good long term when he grows being used to playing bigger kids but frustrating for him now. Strangely for me i was the total opposite, i was the biggest kid in the school at 11 and 12 looked 16 so was one of the stars of the team, but by the time we got to 14-15 everything had changed and being able to stroll through games without trying and still be the best player was a massive shock

Malcolm Gladwell’s book outliers talks about this. (Fascinating read if you haven’t read it already.)

He looked through loads of data and essentially most professional sports players are born in September or the start of the school year for exactly this reason.  
 

I think this was in NFL or Hockey, but applies exactly the same to football. 

Edited October 17 by Osvaldorama

[kitch]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

Just revisiting this I’m sure there are a few other coaches of kids teams here and it’s quite sad to see that despite all the coaching and protocols out there now in grassroots football teams are still dominated by the big physical kids. It’s really noticeable now at u12s and u13s that a lot of the smaller more skillful kids are struggling to adapt to bigger pitches and 11 a side whilst the kids who have already hit puberty and are in some cases a foot taller and 10-15 kilos heavier despite not having the technical ability so stronger and quicker are now dominating matches. Inevitable I guess as for many clubs there is still the win at all costs ethos. We played a team Sunday which ended in a 3-3 draw, we take a squad of 11 every week and make sure everyone gets 45 minutes the other team full of big strong kids with 4 subs they didn’t make a sub until 48 mins and two kids only got 3 minutes. They looked decent to me too but surprise surprise they were the smallest kids.  how are they meant to develop when they’re getting 3 minutes game time because the coach is focusing on winning rather than developing the kids. Kids like this will lose a year or two maybe quit all together despite having ability, who is going to want to stand on the touch line for 50 minutes every week only coming on for a token few minutes or when they’re already 3 or 4 nil up? 

What age does your team play at?

[Wade Garrett]

2 hours ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

This is you, but you don't know it yet

They’re in their twenties now Ted.  Think I’ve gone past that stage 😂

[Wade Garrett]

Any coach that teaches the kids to kick with both feet is alright by me.

Makes my blood boil watching pros who can only use one foot.

[Turkish]

34 minutes ago, kitch said:

What age does your team play at?

U12s

[Turkish]

40 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Malcolm Gladwell’s book outliers talks about this. (Fascinating read if you haven’t read it already.)

He looked through loads of data and essentially most professional sports players are born in September or the start of the school year for exactly this reason.  
 

I think this was in NFL or Hockey, but applies exactly the same to football. 

Yes it’s true statistically if you’re born September-November you’ve got a far higher chance of making it in professional sport than late birth rates. Crazy really when you think kids born in August get overlooked because they were born a week too early. And they do I’ve seen it 

[Turkish]

12 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Any coach that teaches the kids to kick with both feet is alright by me.

Makes my blood boil watching pros who can only use one foot.

That’s where we teach, every thing is done with both feet. Hundreds if not thousands of touches per session inside, outside, lace, sole and both feet. People take the piss out or repetition and keep ups they moan it’s boring but it’s like anything with muscle memory, if you can do 100 keep ups with your weaker and stronger foot you’ll have a first touch better than 95% of the people in the world 

Edited October 17 by Turkish

[Daft Kerplunk]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

That's actually a very good idea and has been muted on various coaching groups im a member of. At the moment kids can play a year up but not a year down. That's fine for bigger kids but we've got one kid in our team who was born on the 28th of August so is regularly playing kids almost a year older which is a huge difference when you're 10 and 11 in so many nows. Now at U12s some of them look 4-5 years older. My lad is very good technically and was way ahead of most at U9s and 10 now he's now 11 will be 12 in April and the second smallest the team he is the weight of an average 9 year old and the height of a short 10 year old, so he's going up against kids regularly who are much, much bigger stronger and quicker now. The difference a year between U11s and U12s makes is startling. It'll probably do him good long term when he grows being used to playing bigger kids but frustrating for him now. Strangely for me i was the total opposite, i was the biggest kid in the school at 11 and 12 looked 16 so was one of the stars of the team, but by the time we got to 14-15 everything had changed and being able to stroll through games without trying and still be the best player was a massive shock

Saints academy ran a tournament for biological age kids about 8 or so years ago. Enabled the small kids to get a chance and forced the big kids to use skill instead of force.