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Summer 2022 Transfer Window

mcbendy

By mcbendy,
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Dusic

Dusic

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

Was linked in 2016.

Free agent I think, so probably not bound by yhe transfer window, although of course our need is more immediate.

On Ramos, wonder who the backup option is? Likely his move to the PL will drag in for a while so other targets will probably go in the meantime, assuming we have any real confidence of getting him.

Will be interesting to see if Ralph comments at all today.

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SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Ramos would be a bit of a coup and a definite sign of intent (at long last) from SR/SFC. Think one of Che or Armstrong would go as a result.

Probably Che.

We’ll surely have to sell a few (somehow) if we’re still talking about signing: a fullback / centre-back / DM / No.10 / Stiker.

Cant see them all arriving. Although we still have a couple of loan slots, I suppose.

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DT

DT

Posted
Posted

The pessimistic view would be that the £25m is part of the fee we get for JWP either now or next season. Or Che plus £10m or so. Hope it’s the latter but still feel Che is useful for his hold up play. Would personally get rid of Adam Armstrong but the maths don’t work there…

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Appy

Appy

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, DT said:

The pessimistic view would be that the £25m is part of the fee we get for JWP either now or next season. Or Che plus £10m or so. Hope it’s the latter but still feel Che is useful for his hold up play. Would personally get rid of Adam Armstrong but the maths don’t work there…

JWP isn’t going anywhere

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CamSaint

CamSaint

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, saintscottofthenortham said:

Ralph gave a definitive yes when asked about a full-back coming in. Plenty of time yet. As for the striker, it sounded earlier in the window like Ralph already knew who was coming in, but that is likely to have since collapsed. I'd hazard a strong guess on that being Liam Delap.

 

9 hours ago, igsey said:

I would be very surprised if we're not at least on the hunt for a full back. One injury to KWP (and he picks up a couple a season) and we're paddleless on poo lagoon.

 

5 hours ago, qwertyell said:

Livramento has had a serious injury - potentially career ending - that most players struggle to fully get back up to speed from a year later - if not longer.

We shouldn't be budgeting for his return any time soon. I doubt he'll start six games this season. 

So we need a covering option for the whole campaign. Whether that's a loan, or an experienced free (Aurier, Sidibe, Malcuit among some very serviceable right backs without a club) on a one year contract, IMO.

 

 

All good points. I must admit I had not thought of the free transfer route for full back cover. And yet that's exactly what we did with the goalkeepers last year when Willy was Initially brought in for one month to cover when McCarthy & Forster were injured, and then that was further extended to the end of the season.

It is therefore quite possible the club might be prepared to take a chance on doing the same in the event of KWP picking up a significant injury, rather than use up valuable funds on a backup that might barely play, especially if they see evidence that Tino is making good progress in his recovery/training.

It is a shame that Saints don't have access to the magic money tree that politicians on both sides of the political divide find so useful 😊.

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revolution saint

revolution saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

Please could someone elaborate on Ramos for those of us who don't follow foreign football? What kind of striker is he?

I watched him in the game against Kiev last night.  Only on for about an hour but scored a decent goal - bit of a strikers goal.  You can YouTube it.  He didn't do much else.  For all the talk of being like Shane Long, well, he looked nothing like that.  In fact he didn't look like a Ralph signing at all - didn't really press (although that may have been under instructions not to press too much).  Looks a physical player but doesn't look like there's much pace there.  Seems quite good in the air.  Get the impression he's more of a predator as a striker than someone who works that hard - seems to find pockets of space rather than relying on workrate and pace.  Can't really tell much more from an hour and might not be that indicative of what he's actually like.

Edited by revolution saint
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Chris cooper

Chris cooper

Posted
Posted

Ramos is going to wolves was never coming here .. Delap was never coming here .. kaladzdic of stuttgart no links in German media only speculation here so probably not even in the mix .. demebele of Lyon apparently said he wouldn’t touch us with a mahoosive unsaga like barge pole .. the pessimism is warranted being a saints fan for a lot longer than most on here you get used to it.

we will probably get an unknown in from the Dutch or French league for under 10m but semmens will say it’s the quality not the experience we need. 

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Saint Garrett

Saint Garrett

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Chris cooper said:

Ramos is going to wolves was never coming here .. Delap was never coming here .. kaladzdic of stuttgart no links in German media only speculation here so probably not even in the mix .. demebele of Lyon apparently said he wouldn’t touch us with a mahoosive unsaga like barge pole .. the pessimism is warranted being a saints fan for a lot longer than most on here you get used to it.

we will probably get an unknown in from the Dutch or French league for under 10m but semmens will say it’s the quality not the experience we need. 

Thats the spirit 😂

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Rebel

Rebel

Posted
Posted

I can see us signing Joshua Zirkzee from Bayern Munich as the additional striker we need.  Scored 15 goals on loan at Anderlecht last season. 6ft4, Dutch and a year left on his contract so Bayern want to sell with a buy back clause. Available for £12-15M supposedly

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Dusic

Dusic

Posted
Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

 

 

Would be a good replacement for Romeu. But not sure Luckhurst is overly reliable (and Shields isnt following him on IG, he follow Ramos FWIW).

Also...how can we afford all this assuming we spend £20m on a striker too?

Even if we sell Adams and Romeu our net spend will be around the £70m mark.

Although could argue that regardless of how this season goes SR would have developed a talent pool of higher value and then hopefully we can get to a point where we have a couple of £50m players to sell each summer. At the moment we could not do this without killing ourselves (selling JWP and KWP) whereas in future we could deal with it much easier potentially.

Edited by Dusic
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AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Would be a good replacement for Romeu. But not sure Luckhurst is overly reliable!

Also...how can we afford all this assuming we spend £20m on a striker too?

Even if we sell Adams and Romeu our net spend will be around the £70m mark.

Although could argue that regardless of how this season goes SR would have developed a talent pool of higher value and then hopefully we can get to a point where we have a couple of £50m players to sell each summer. At the moment we could not do this without killing ourselves (selling JWP and KWP) whereas in future he could deal with it much easier potentially.

called being a premier league club that never has a notable net spend

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MarkSFC

MarkSFC

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Would be a good replacement for Romeu. But not sure Luckhurst is overly reliable (and Shields isnt following him on IG, he follow Ramos FWIW).

Also...how can we afford all this assuming we spend £20m on a striker too?

Even if we sell Adams and Romeu our net spend will be around the £70m mark.

Although could argue that regardless of how this season goes SR would have developed a talent pool of higher value and then hopefully we can get to a point where we have a couple of £50m players to sell each summer. At the moment we could not do this without killing ourselves (selling JWP and KWP) whereas in future we could deal with it much easier potentially.

It seems fairly clear that part of their (SR) strategy is to provide funds into the cash flow to allow us to be more active and competitive in the market. This may just be this summer, it may include the next window or two as well. 

What is also certain (and what seems likely to me) is that this initial investment will over time be reduced / recouped as sales are inevitably made.

But by investing additional funds (assuming this is actually the case) now it moves the team and business forward. Self-sustainability inevitably comes from revenues above expenditure. By adding half a dozen or more new young players this hopefully sets us up where we probably sell one or even two each summer for a decent number without really hitting the squad overall. 

Having said that, we do need a striker of note, another forward type, Garner? in (OR or ID out), a CB and FB cover/loan to resemble a proper good window!

 

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Saint Garrett

Saint Garrett

Posted
Posted

I guess the plan is to invest in the squad with players that we can flog for big money in the next 3 or 4 years, and if they don't get sold they will still be quality players for us, i.e. Tino, JWP, KWP levels right now.

Let's say Lavia, Bazunu, Mara, Garner are all bought this summer, and flogged for £30m a pop on average, we can then reinvest that money into the club in 2/3 years. The only issue is if they're shit. 😂

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Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Please could someone elaborate on Ramos for those of us who don't follow foreign football? What kind of striker is he?

Looks like a pacey and reasonably well built striker that can finish well with decent composure and is good with his head. Likes a scissor kick.

Edited - he's a lot taller than i thought he was 😎

Edited by Saint86
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Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

It seems fairly clear that part of their (SR) strategy is to provide funds into the cash flow to allow us to be more active and competitive in the market. This may just be this summer, it may include the next window or two as well. 

What is also certain (and what seems likely to me) is that this initial investment will over time be reduced / recouped as sales are inevitably made.

But by investing additional funds (assuming this is actually the case) now it moves the team and business forward. Self-sustainability inevitably comes from revenues above expenditure. By adding half a dozen or more new young players this hopefully sets us up where we probably sell one or even two each summer for a decent number without really hitting the squad overall. 

Having said that, we do need a striker of note, another forward type, Garner? in (OR or ID out), a CB and FB cover/loan to resemble a proper good window!

 

What I think they're doing is a decent strategy but carries risk. They look to be investing somewhere in the region of £60M-£100M this window (subject to remaining transfer business). That's going to be a loss on our books in our 3 year accounting window for FFP. But that investment is almost entirely into good value players that we can develop to a level / value that exceeds what we paid for them. They then either contribute to the team, or, the ones that we sell generate increased revenues which can be used to pay off debts / and reinvest, and also boosts our limits under FFP at that given future date. A cycle which we can then hopefully repeat (aka Brentford). These players will all likely have lower wages (than equivalent standard players) for most of their time here as well.

The obvious risk is they don't develop as expected and we don't end up with a first team of either good quality players or players that we can sell for profit - at which point we'll be treading water without further investment. I suppose the worst case beyond that is that we get relegated and/or they don't develop to the required level and we need to strengthen to survive and sell them at a loss - but i think that is unlikely.

Edited by Saint86
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revolution saint

revolution saint

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Looks like a pacey and reasonably well built striker that can finish well with decent composure and is good with his head. Likes a scissor kick.

Edited - he's a lot taller than i thought he was 😎

I thought he looked pacey in the YouTube clips initially as well but went back over them after watching him last night.  I'm not sure he does have much pace but he seems to be able to find space quite well rather than anything else and his anticipation is good.  To be honest we probably don't need out and out speed as much as we do someone who can finish.  Certainly last night he looked anything but quick and didn't close down.  Could be carrying an injury or that's just how the manager wants him to play though.  Definitely didn't look like a performance Ralph would have liked (apart from the goal). 

Agree with you on composure and definitely something we're lacking, and the same with an aerial threat.  He didn't look as tall as I thought he would be either - 6ft 1" isn't unusually tall, especially for a striker.  Regardless, he seems a decent header of the ball.

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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Romeu will be off.

Yeah most likely. Shame as he's been a great servant for us but I think his best days are behind him. Our collapse last season coincided with his form massively dipping. He doesn't have the legs anymore to play a 38 game season at the intensity required. He'd be great to keep around but at this stage, with 1 year left on his contract and the chance to go and play in his home region of Spain, it makes sense for all parties. I wish him all the best.

Edited by Sheaf Saint
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FarehamSaintJames

FarehamSaintJames

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, DT said:

The pessimistic view would be that the £25m is part of the fee we get for JWP either now or next season. Or Che plus £10m or so. Hope it’s the latter but still feel Che is useful for his hold up play. Would personally get rid of Adam Armstrong but the maths don’t work there…

JWP will be here for life. 

I said it at the end of last season and will continue to say it now. I think we’ve got a guy that has pride and loyalty and wouldn’t sell out for a few extra quid in his wallet.

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Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

JWP will be here for life. 

I said it at the end of last season and will continue to say it now. I think we’ve got a guy that has pride and loyalty and wouldn’t sell out for a few extra quid in his wallet.

A few? No. But every player has their tipping point, like every person.

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manji

manji

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

JWP will be here for life. 

I said it at the end of last season and will continue to say it now. I think we’ve got a guy that has pride and loyalty and wouldn’t sell out for a few extra quid in his wallet.

Future Saints manager ? 

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MarkSFC said:

It seems fairly clear that part of their (SR) strategy is to provide funds into the cash flow to allow us to be more active and competitive in the market. This may just be this summer, it may include the next window or two as well. 

Does it? We had £28m in the bank remaining from the loan (not to mention the £100m+ Prem/TV money from 2021 should that be paid in June - I honestly dont know). SR may not have had to put a penny into the club to pay the first tranche of those transfer fees. I am not saying they won't invest/loan the club money, but maybe we wait and see what the accounts show next summer before concluding they have added funds to the cash flow.

It's worth noting that spending what you don't earn just adds debt, and cost of debt to the club, which reduces budgets in the future. A £100m debt is going to costs us £10m+ to service each year. And that's £10m less we have to spend on transfer fees and wages.

Edited by Chez
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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

JWP will be here for life. 

I said it at the end of last season and will continue to say it now. I think we’ve got a guy that has pride and loyalty and wouldn’t sell out for a few extra quid in his wallet.

Lol. He will go next year and good luck to him. 

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MarkSFC

MarkSFC

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Chez said:

Does it? We had £28m in the bank remaining from the loan (not to mention the £100m+ Prem/TV money form 2021). SR may not have had to put a penny into the club to pay the first tranche of those transfer fees. I am not saying they won't invest/loan the club money, but maybe we wait and see what the accounts show next summer before concluding they have added funds to the cash flow.

It's worth noting that sending what you don't earn just adds debt, and cost of debt to the club, which reduces budgets in the future. A £100m debt is going to costs us £10m+ to service each year. And that's £10m less we have to spend on transfer fees and wages.

You may be right on the loan and tv money, in which case previous years would of been similar wouldn't they? 

IF the owners put a loan on the club it doesn't automatically mean that it needs to be servicable aspecially at the rate you suggest. They can decide how they recoup it. 

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

You may be right on the loan and tv money, in which case previous years would of been similar wouldn't they? 

IF the owners put a loan on the club it doesn't automatically mean that it needs to be servicable aspecially at the rate you suggest. They can decide how they recoup it. 

The £28m cash in bank left over from the `covid' loan was in the end of year accounts. So no maybe about it.

Thats the one thing I am unsure about - when the TV payments are made. Is it one lump sum in June or spread across the year? Key though is that this £100m+is already assigned to wages and operating costs for the forthcoming year, so even though we'd have a big sum in the bank, say in June, you can't just spend it all as you'd not have money left to pay wages ten months later. However, it would mean you wouldn't have cash flow problems in July/Aug when you are trying to buy players - so why have we used that excuse for missing out on players? I am guessing payments are spread across the year. The club probably made a decision not to spend on players until they were sure that another player sales was going through. The £28m has prevented that being a problem this year.

The interest on that loan/debt, which is now about £80m is about £7m a year and rising. So to stop the overall debt increasing in size we would need to pay at least that interest amount each year. We don't actually need to pay anything until year 5, but by then the loan/debt would be over £100m and the interest on that pushing £10m.

Some have suggested that the owners have paid the loan off. There is zero evidence of this.

You are right, any additional funds inserted (loaned) into the club by the owners on top of that existing loan could be provided at 0% interest rate should they choose. 

Edited by Chez
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