Summer 2022 Transfer Window

[davefizzy14]

30 minutes ago, saintant said:

Think Djenepo will start against Spurs at left wing back.

In my opinion Moussa has looked good at left wing back so far. I think he could deputise there until Romain is 100% back fit. 

[The Juice]

Surely the obvious solution is to have Valery start at RWB and KWP slot into LWB or vice-versa... am I missing something? (apart from immature 'but Valery is shit' replies when he is capable if not outstanding).

[grezz]

6 hours ago, qwertyell said:

He scored 8 goals for Middlesbrough in the Championship across 36 games.

(Sam Gallagher scored 9 last season, in 37 games.)

Might not be "fucking shit", but he's of no use to us.

I hereby confirm he is " fucking shit" (in the same way that Redmond is "fucking shit"). He can flatter to deceive now and then but across a season he's Championship quality IMO. I've seen 75% of his DK appearances, plus a fair few club appearances and every now and then he has a 'wow' moment but they are few and far between. He's not bad bad but he's not going to give us anything extra that will push us forward. 

 

Edit: He gets an A for effort every time though

Edited 26 July, 2022 by grezz

[HnycS]

1 hour ago, davefizzy14 said:

In my opinion Moussa has looked good at left wing back so far. I think he could deputise there until Romain is 100% back fit. 

 

57 minutes ago, The Juice said:

Surely the obvious solution is to have Valery start at RWB and KWP slot into LWB or vice-versa... am I missing something? (apart from immature 'but Valery is shit' replies when he is capable if not outstanding).

Think these two options very accurately represent the lesser of two evils.

[FarehamSaintJames]

Five at the back against Spurs away I can understand but my word I hope that’s not this seasons new tactic for every game.

A team should always play to their strengths and on our day we are very good at attacking. The problem is player consistency and that’s what let’s us down in those creative areas. I’d rather see us go with five in midfield than five at the back.

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Five at the back against Spurs away I can understand but my word I hope that’s not this seasons new tactic for every game.

A team should always play to their strengths and on our day we are very good at attacking. The problem is player consistency and that’s what let’s us down in those creative areas. I’d rather see us go with five in midfield than five at the back.

Agreed. If we have signed all these new players and we simply revert to negative defensive football then we might as well have not bothered. 

[Bad Wolf]

12 hours ago, stknowle said:

Judgement very easily coloured by not watching regularly and only really registering the odd outstanding performance (Arsenal). Fucks sake I had someone (very definitely non-Saints fan) telling me they thought Redmond should be at a top 6 club once. (It was about 4 yrs ago tbf).

Oh I think we've all had outsiders say that to us about Redmond.

[Nolan]

3 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Five at the back against Spurs away I can understand but my word I hope that’s not this seasons new tactic for every game.

A team should always play to their strengths and on our day we are very good at attacking. The problem is player consistency and that’s what let’s us down in those creative areas. I’d rather see us go with five in midfield than five at the back.

I'll be very surprised if Djenepo and KWP play deep enough for it be considered "5 at the back"

 

[SaintLondon]

11 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

If true (not saying it is) then that's idiotic. Getting an experienced striker in should have been priority number one for the summer. 

I’m not saying it is true, just what I heard. Agreed a striker is priority but perhaps it’s the hardest piece of the puzzle and the squad needed much improvement so they couldn’t sit on their hands and wait. Btw not claiming any ITK here - just been passed on some info, whether or not it’s true I don’t know!

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, SaintLondon said:

I’m not saying it is true, just what I heard. Agreed a striker is priority but perhaps it’s the hardest piece of the puzzle and the squad needed much improvement so they couldn’t sit on their hands and wait. Btw not claiming any ITK here - just been passed on some info, whether or not it’s true I don’t know!

Yes but if it is the case that we had limited funds and our hunt for a striker rested on the possibility of selling bednarek then we should have signed cheaper players in other positions and kept the cash for a striker. 

[egg]

What's all this nonsense about selling Bednarek to buy a striker?! Bednarek was made captain in JWP's absence and is the only senior CB we have. He's not going to be sold to buy a striker. 

Edited 27 July, 2022 by egg

[The Kraken]

4 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Five at the back against Spurs away I can understand but my word I hope that’s not this seasons new tactic for every game.

A team should always play to their strengths and on our day we are very good at attacking. The problem is player consistency and that’s what let’s us down in those creative areas. I’d rather see us go with five in midfield than five at the back.

I didn’t see the watford game, but certainly in the first two games in Austria it very much looked like we were going three at the back, with the wingbacks filling the midfield.  Most noticeably in the first half against Klagsnfurt in the first half with Small on the left and Edwards on the right (or Smallbone covering) it was very much 5 in midfield when attacking. Against Leipzig, Small was caught offside about 3 or 4 times. Djenepo against Leipzig was in their half more than he was in ours. And there were comments about how KWP linked up with Aribo. So, I think the intent is to have a 3 when in possession, and scuttle back to a 5 when defending.

The problem, IMO, is just that it hasn’t worked. We looked massively vulnerable at times in both games at the back, particularly with big spaces down the flanks (no surprise). Time and again Klagenfurt roasted us in the space down the left. And, again IMO, having a 5 in midfield seemed to slow the whole play down going forward (friendlies are slow anyway) so that the opposition could easily reset themselves.

In honesty, I’ve been trying so far only to focus on individual player performances rather than the team. The games are too slow and lacking in intensity to get a real feel for how the shape will work. Perhaps with a more intense workout in the final two games and more of a focus on the intended first team getting more of a run out, it’ll start to click.

But, yeah, so far I’m not overly confident in the system either offensively or defensively.

 

 

[SaintLondon]

13 minutes ago, egg said:

What's all this nonsense about selling Bednarek to buy a striker?! Bednarek has been made captain and is the only senior CB we have. He's not going to be sold to buy a striker. 

He’s most definitely for sale

[Toadhall Saint]

7 minutes ago, SaintLondon said:

He’s most definitely for sale

All players are up for sale what makes you so definite about him?

[warwicksaint]

 

[warwicksaint]

 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, warwicksaint said:

 

If true then striker, AM or winger, CB and fullback

[saintant]

4 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Five at the back against Spurs away I can understand but my word I hope that’s not this seasons new tactic for every game.

A team should always play to their strengths and on our day we are very good at attacking. The problem is player consistency and that’s what let’s us down in those creative areas. I’d rather see us go with five in midfield than five at the back.

I fear Ralph is going to go with 5 at the back. My other fear with this formation is that he will instruct the two wing backs to be ultra cautious about venturing forward so, in effect, we'll be playing with a back 5 which will cut down the little supply we provide for the strikers even more.

[warwicksaint]

Just now, saintant said:

I fear Ralph is going to go with 5 at the back. My other fear with this formation is that he will instruct the two wing backs to be ultra cautious about venturing forward so, in effect, we'll be playing with a back 5 which will cut down the little supply we provide for the strikers even more.

Judging by pre season that won’t be the case, the wingbacks seem to be getting very far forward and almost acting as wingers half the time, whilst one of the 8’s tends to drop into RB/LB when progressing up the pitch

[tajjuk]

4 minutes ago, warwicksaint said:

 

I feel like having the world's best set piece taker might also be playing a role. 

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, warwicksaint said:

Judging by pre season that won’t be the case, the wingbacks seem to be getting very far forward and almost acting as wingers half the time, whilst one of the 8’s tends to drop into RB/LB when progressing up the pitch

Yes but, as someone else mentioned, we've been left exposed down the flanks and Ralph will not want that in league games.

[egg]

16 minutes ago, SaintLondon said:

He’s most definitely for sale

I don't doubt that, but not to buy a striker. A replacement CB I understand, but nobody will persuade me we're selling Bednarek to buy a striker only to stick Lyanco or Stephens in at CB. That'd be suicide. 

[warwicksaint]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

Yes but, as someone else mentioned, we've been left exposed down the flanks and Ralph will not want that in league games.

Agreed i don’t think they should be pushing as high as they have been. FWIW I’m all for 5 at the back given how shit our defence has been the past few years. We can’t seem to score with 4 at the back anyway so might as well tighten up the defence to give us a chance🤣

[Convict Colony]

9 minutes ago, warwicksaint said:

 

Jesus we will never see a window like this ever again, already we are at a lot of players, it's like we a newly promoted team splashing the cash.

[Matthew Le God]

19 minutes ago, warwicksaint said:

A link to the podcast this came from...

 

[Viking Saint]

2 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Oh I think we've all had outsiders say that to us about Redmond.

Think we all know there's a reason why Redmond's not at a top 6 club......

[SaintLondon]

39 minutes ago, egg said:

I don't doubt that, but not to buy a striker. A replacement CB I understand, but nobody will persuade me we're selling Bednarek to buy a striker only to stick Lyanco or Stephens in at CB. That'd be suicide. 

Maybe let me rephrase then, we need to sell to buy. Simple as that. Funds from players sold will go towards new players coming in. Bednarek is our most saleable asset (that we're looking to sell) so funds from this sale (and others) would go towards the striker but also towards any other sales we have incoming. Reality is that the other signings will most likely be in and around the €6-10m mark so it's not as crucial. Striker as Ralph has said is the most expensive hence the need to free up funds. I maintain my point though that I believe we now need to sell first team players such as Bednarek before we can finish our window. 

[beatlesaint]

4 minutes ago, SaintLondon said:

Maybe let me rephrase then, we need to sell to buy. Simple as that. Funds from players sold will go towards new players coming in. Bednarek is our most saleable asset (that we're looking to sell) so funds from this sale (and others) would go towards the striker but also towards any other sales we have incoming. Reality is that the other signings will most likely be in and around the €6-10m mark so it's not as crucial. Striker as Ralph has said is the most expensive hence the need to free up funds. I maintain my point though that I believe we now need to sell first team players such as Bednarek before we can finish our window. 

well the saleable ones they would be willing to let go are Bednarek, Stephens (although he wont bring in much) and Redmond I suppose.

All well and good in principle but who they hell is going to want to buy them ? Championship club for Stephens maybe..... 

Edited 27 July, 2022 by beatlesaint

[Saint Fan CaM]

Mmm, am I the only one feeling a bit cautious about packing the squad with a lot of unproven players that might not be really up to the job?  Reminds of the Lowe days a bit, although to be fair the scouting and recruitment appear much better now. It provides a lot of competition for space in the 1st team, but also provides Ralph an opportunity to tinker and one of my concerns about his management previously has been his seeming inability to know his best team.

Its nice gawking over all these new players coming in, wondering what promise they might have, but there’s only 11 players allowed on the pitch at any one time and if our available squad players are incapable of collectively competing in the EPL (per the last 12/13 games of last season), it’s going to be another difficult season.

[beatlesaint]

15 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Mmm, am I the only one feeling a bit cautious about packing the squad with a lot of unproven players that might not be really up to the job?  Reminds of the Lowe days a bit, although to be fair the scouting and recruitment appear much better now. It provides a lot of competition for space in the 1st team, but also provides Ralph an opportunity to tinker and one of my concerns about his management previously has been his seeming inability to know his best team.

Its nice gawking over all these new players coming in, wondering what promise they might have, but there’s only 11 players allowed on the pitch at any one time and if our available squad players are incapable of collectively competing in the EPL (per the last 12/13 games of last season), it’s going to be another difficult season.

I agree. Lets be honest, of these 6 young players coming in the chances of all of them coming good are a bit remote, young players peak, fall away etc etc.

If 3 or 4 of them add to the team and become great players for us then that, for me, would be a great return.

If its only 1 or 2 we are in the do do !  

[Saint86]

54 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

A link to the podcast this came from...

 

Thanks for sharing MLG

[Toussaint]

22 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Mmm, am I the only one feeling a bit cautious about packing the squad with a lot of unproven players that might not be really up to the job?  Reminds of the Lowe days a bit, although to be fair the scouting and recruitment appear much better now. It provides a lot of competition for space in the 1st team, but also provides Ralph an opportunity to tinker and one of my concerns about his management previously has been his seeming inability to know his best team.

Its nice gawking over all these new players coming in, wondering what promise they might have, but there’s only 11 players allowed on the pitch at any one time and if our available squad players are incapable of collectively competing in the EPL (per the last 12/13 games of last season), it’s going to be another difficult season.

You are not alone.

[SaintsFan86]

We don't need to sale to buy. 

[egg]

39 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Mmm, am I the only one feeling a bit cautious about packing the squad with a lot of unproven players that might not be really up to the job?  Reminds of the Lowe days a bit, although to be fair the scouting and recruitment appear much better now. It provides a lot of competition for space in the 1st team, but also provides Ralph an opportunity to tinker and one of my concerns about his management previously has been his seeming inability to know his best team.

Its nice gawking over all these new players coming in, wondering what promise they might have, but there’s only 11 players allowed on the pitch at any one time and if our available squad players are incapable of collectively competing in the EPL (per the last 12/13 games of last season), it’s going to be another difficult season.

You're not the only 1. For every Tino there's at least one Simeu. We needed a better GK, better CB, arguably better LB, an upgrade/alternative in CM, upgrade at 10, and upgrade up front. We've arguably got that in the GK and Aribo, but apart from that I can't see where we've improved our starting XI. Indeed, with Perraud and Tino still out, we're arguably worse in terms of starters. 

[JRM]

Just now, egg said:

You're not the only 1. For every Tino there's at least one Simeu. We needed a better GK, better CB, arguably better LB, an upgrade/alternative in CM, upgrade at 10, and upgrade up front. We've arguably got that in the GK and Aribo, but apart from that I can't see where we've improved our starting XI. Indeed, with Perraud and Tino still out, we're arguably worse in terms of starters. 

That's my thoughts, any news on when Perraud might be back? I've written off Spurs away but could do with some points against Leeds and that's only a couple of weeks away now 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

30 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Mmm, am I the only one feeling a bit cautious about packing the squad with a lot of unproven players that might not be really up to the job?  Reminds of the Lowe days a bit, although to be fair the scouting and recruitment appear much better now. It provides a lot of competition for space in the 1st team, but also provides Ralph an opportunity to tinker and one of my concerns about his management previously has been his seeming inability to know his best team.

Its nice gawking over all these new players coming in, wondering what promise they might have, but there’s only 11 players allowed on the pitch at any one time and if our available squad players are incapable of collectively competing in the EPL (per the last 12/13 games of last season), it’s going to be another difficult season.

Fair comment. There's always the chance that enough of the young talent struggle to settle that results in us trotting out the same team with the same results as the end of last season.

To offset that though is that some are at a level where they'd be playing more regularly if they weren't at a top 4 club, like Tino last year, some have had good loan spells and some already have had first team experience at their parent clubs. So a bit stronger than Lowe's time.

They have an experienced group around them, so it's not going to be all youngsters. The strength in depth should be pushing the previous first teamers to up their game. It should also enable Ralph to have more comfort to change things as required. You'd hope everyone coming in is suitable for RalphBall v2.0 after v1.0 got found out.

For those now surplus to requirements, it should also be pushing their agents to get them new clubs if they want to kick a ball next season.

There will always be a bit of concern from me short of us having a squad of super stars. I'm pleased with the quality of those we've brought in. But a lot is on Ralph's shoulders as he dictates his automatism style of football. If that's as fragile as last season, any number of squads would suffer the consequences.

[FarehamSaintJames]

I think we need two of these three: Winger/attacking midfielder/striker - dependant on what formation we are aiming to play. I’m sure he’ll be stubborn and stick with his 4-2-2-2 crap but the extra man in midfield would then allow the wide players to push on up front. Would love to see that.

In terms of other players a centre-back and a full back on loan is a must.

Get rid of Bednarek, Djenepo and Walcott. 
Promote McCarthy through the media as the best thing since sliced bread and ship him off to Leicester for £20m or so 😅

 

[ally_uk]

I am glad we are addressing the lack of height and physicality in this team. For me it stood out like a sore thumb last season. 

By getting some units in it would make us more of a threat especially on set pieces 👍 

[MarkSFC]

On the basis we play 4222 I'd be interested to see when all fit;

Bazanu

Tino ABK/NEW Salisu KWP

Lavia JWP

Aribo NEW

Adams/Mara NEW

Bench

McCarthy/Cabellero

Perraud

New (loan) LB/RB

Romeu

Adams/Mara

ABK/NEW

(1or2 of) Stephens/Lyanco/Bed

Moussa

Tella

Armstrong S

Armstrong A

Edwards

Looms better than last season IMHO.

 

 But we will see🤣

 

 

[Smirking_Saint]

So much guff gets spouted at times, we’ve had comfortably one of the most conclusive transfer windows since possibly the Koeman years, yet we’re still just gripped with this negativity

Lets look at that much lauded transfer window;

Tadic / Pellè / Alderweireld (L) / Forster / Manè/ Bertrand (L)

At the time, outside of possibly Bertrand none of these had any obvious premier league quality, and even since that point from memory only Austin/Ings had any clear pedigree at this level abd even then they had potential issues around injuries etc

We’ve never operated in the ‘established’ market. And since have moved into signing some of the brightest young talent from the brightest academies

I much prefer this to signing ‘known quality’ the risks are still there, but generally they have no real upside, often in high wages or high fee’s and are they any less of a risk ? See the likes of Dele Alli or Ross Barkley for instance

Profile wise our new strategy is backed now by the overseeing eyes of the much lauded Joe Shields, and will almost certainly lead to us eventually losing our brightest talent but aslong as we make the correct signings in replacement then I’m comfortable here

We are currently a lower premier league side, with a likely ceiling of maybe top6 at our absolute maximum, we simply cannot/ do not operate in the Coutinho/Botman even Tarkowski markets that many of us want to

Of course I would like to see us sign a real known entity in attack.. but its unlikely, look at Graziano.. arguably one of our more positive signings in recent history… he was a risk, he’d done very little before Feyenoord yet the risk worked out… this is the sort of signing Id expect us to see over the next couple of weeks, a well scouted forward appointment that fits our system and will likely have potential downsides

Lets give the side time, we have a month of the window left and so far look very promising.. if this was a Gao window we’d be staring down the EFL right now but I feel SR have given us a real chance here

[SuperSAINT]

 

[Ralph Fastenbüttl]

34 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

if this was a Gao window we’d be staring down the EFL right now but I feel SR have given us a real chance here

Quoted for truth. Just fucking imagine if this had been a Gao window. We'd be sitting here watching the club fail to shift dead weight like JB/MD/NR and we'd perhaps have managed to scrape together the pennies for one or two youngsters. The Championship would be looming super fucking large.

Instead, we've at least got hope - hope that some of these signings may 'do a Tino', hope that the increased competition will inject some oomph into these fuckers, hope that with the new coaching setup the team might have something new about them, hope that Ralph might step up now that he knows he's got 'til Christmas to prove himself and the hope that we may at least get to enjoy some entertaining football in the months ahead. That all sounds pretty good to me.

[LiberalCommunist]

The new keeper looks a improvement, so that is a great place to start. But we need two of the other new recruits to really hit the ground running. 

That's where I see us right now. Draws and plucky 1-0 defeats, then hopefully it starts to click. 

Still, excited for the start now. Football is nearly back! 

[St Louis]

14 hours ago, davefizzy14 said:

In my opinion Moussa has looked good at left wing back so far. I think he could deputise there until Romain is 100% back fit. 

It's keeping Moussa fit for consecutive games that could prove a bigger challenge.

[Sheaf Saint]

1 hour ago, SuperSAINT said:

 

Everton fans on GOT are up in arms about this.

Wondering about the wisdom of buying half the squad* of a team that was relegated last season.

 

* Their words MLG, not mine.

Edited 27 July, 2022 by Sheaf Saint

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 minutes ago, St Louis said:

It's keeping Moussa fit for consecutive games that could prove a bigger challenge.

Seriously it's just a disaster waiting to happen. No way should he be starting against Spurs 

[Saint86]

6 hours ago, Smirking_Saint said:

So much guff gets spouted at times, we’ve had comfortably one of the most conclusive transfer windows since possibly the Koeman years, yet we’re still just gripped with this negativity

Lets look at that much lauded transfer window;

Tadic / Pellè / Alderweireld (L) / Forster / Manè/ Bertrand (L)

At the time, outside of possibly Bertrand none of these had any obvious premier league quality, and even since that point from memory only Austin/Ings had any clear pedigree at this level abd even then they had potential issues around injuries etc

We’ve never operated in the ‘established’ market. And since have moved into signing some of the brightest young talent from the brightest academies

I much prefer this to signing ‘known quality’ the risks are still there, but generally they have no real upside, often in high wages or high fee’s and are they any less of a risk ? See the likes of Dele Alli or Ross Barkley for instance

Profile wise our new strategy is backed now by the overseeing eyes of the much lauded Joe Shields, and will almost certainly lead to us eventually losing our brightest talent but aslong as we make the correct signings in replacement then I’m comfortable here

We are currently a lower premier league side, with a likely ceiling of maybe top6 at our absolute maximum, we simply cannot/ do not operate in the Coutinho/Botman even Tarkowski markets that many of us want to

Of course I would like to see us sign a real known entity in attack.. but its unlikely, look at Graziano.. arguably one of our more positive signings in recent history… he was a risk, he’d done very little before Feyenoord yet the risk worked out… this is the sort of signing Id expect us to see over the next couple of weeks, a well scouted forward appointment that fits our system and will likely have potential downsides

Lets give the side time, we have a month of the window left and so far look very promising.. if this was a Gao window we’d be staring down the EFL right now but I feel SR have given us a real chance here

Agreed, solid post! Although I would say that Gao wasn't to blame for the recruitment, only the funding side of things. We signed Tino, KWP, Broja, Adams etc under Gao and they're all fairly solid. Big change for us was the shake up starting with R&K going - which tbf to Gao he did implement.

Edited 27 July, 2022 by Saint86

[Kermitzasaint]

1 hour ago, Smirking_Saint said:

So much guff gets spouted at times, we’ve had comfortably one of the most conclusive transfer windows since possibly the Koeman years, yet we’re still just gripped with this negativity

Lets look at that much lauded transfer window;

Tadic / Pellè / Alderweireld (L) / Forster / Manè/ Bertrand (L)

At the time, outside of possibly Bertrand none of these had any obvious premier league quality, and even since that point from memory only Austin/Ings had any clear pedigree at this level abd even then they had potential issues around injuries etc

We’ve never operated in the ‘established’ market. And since have moved into signing some of the brightest young talent from the brightest academies

I much prefer this to signing ‘known quality’ the risks are still there, but generally they have no real upside, often in high wages or high fee’s and are they any less of a risk ? See the likes of Dele Alli or Ross Barkley for instance

Profile wise our new strategy is backed now by the overseeing eyes of the much lauded Joe Shields, and will almost certainly lead to us eventually losing our brightest talent but aslong as we make the correct signings in replacement then I’m comfortable here

We are currently a lower premier league side, with a likely ceiling of maybe top6 at our absolute maximum, we simply cannot/ do not operate in the Coutinho/Botman even Tarkowski markets that many of us want to

Of course I would like to see us sign a real known entity in attack.. but its unlikely, look at Graziano.. arguably one of our more positive signings in recent history… he was a risk, he’d done very little before Feyenoord yet the risk worked out… this is the sort of signing Id expect us to see over the next couple of weeks, a well scouted forward appointment that fits our system and will likely have potential downsides

Lets give the side time, we have a month of the window left and so far look very promising.. if this was a Gao window we’d be staring down the EFL right now but I feel SR have given us a real chance here

While your point is fair about incoming players,  I always had faith in Koemans ability to improve inexperienced players. I don't have any faith in Ralph whatsoever. 

[DT]

30 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Seriously it's just a disaster waiting to happen. No way should he be starting against Spurs 

Bit worried that Ralph doesn't really have a clue about what he's doing, what with this and moving 'free-scoring' Romeu into a position up with the forwards. Is anyone else concerned? Always seems like shoe-horning into the squad out-of-position players and asking them to do things they are not familiar with. Surely we need a settled formation and team as we approach the season. It's like we play catch up every year waiting for late additions, with available points drifting by. Not that I'm unhappy with the necessary defensive additions. Just need a few more, and quick. (oh, and someone who can score. and someone who can create. and maybe another defender. or two)

[tajjuk]

23 minutes ago, Kermitzasaint said:

I always had faith in Koemans ability to improve inexperienced players. 

Really? I think Koeman has proved after he left us that he was a thoroughly average manager, good recruitment built that team and he got lucky with it IMO.