Summer 2022 Transfer Window

[FarehamSaintJames]

28 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

Who is your hunch? 

I just think we’ve got a lot more business to do. We have players that in my opinion can stick a ball in the net, WHEN given the right service. That is the problem up top now and through the midfield.
No confidence, no creativity. Change that and chances and goals will follow 😁

[Saint Garrett]

4 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

I just think we’ve got a lot more business to do. We have players that in my opinion can stick a ball in the net, WHEN given the right service. That is the problem up top now and through the midfield.
No confidence, no creativity. Change that and chances and goals will follow 😁

I disagree. Armstrong is anonymous at this level, Adams has talent and I’m a big fan of his, but he’s not a clinical striker. 

We need someone who can come and score goals, and on occasions make something out of nothing. We’re going to be relying on the defence for clean sheets to be able to grind out 1-0 wins. 

[MarkSFC]

Just now, FarehamSaintJames said:

I just think we’ve got a lot more business to do. We have players that in my opinion can stick a ball in the net, WHEN given the right service. That is the problem up top now and through the midfield.
No confidence, no creativity. Change that and chances and goals will follow 😁

I agree, that we lack creativity in attacking midfield on wide forward positions. We do get some creativity from KWP and Livramento, and hopefully Aribo will be a positive addition. I think Mara might be viewed as more of a wife forward than though the middle so he'll most likely be better than Redmond, Djeneppo, Walcott, Tella and Armstrong in that role. 

I'd love Callum Hudson-Odoi preferably permanent but even on loan. 

Not including Mara we need at least two more forward players. 

I like Adams but not sure he will get much better. A Armstrong looks like someone with all the aspects to be a good striker but right now it looks like it's purely confidence issues. 

[FarehamSaintJames]

Adams I’m a big fan of. If he could smash the ball a yard either side of the keeper rather than at him from point blank range then he’d be twice the player.

Armstrong I think will come good. Can’t write him off based on a couple of cameo appearances. RH chose to pick ninety-year old Shane Long ahead of him. I’d give him a chance with better service. I think he’d be better out wide off the left than through the middle.

Hudson-Odoi would be considered a coup, although I don’t really know what he’s done in his career. He earned a shit ton of money at a stupidly young age to deter him going to Bayern and then never kicked on from there.

I just see us spending more on that wide or attacking player then someone up front. Bring in a loanee striker (Liam Delap) plus Sekou Mars’s imminent arrival and change formation to 4-2-3-1 I think we’d do well.

For example:
Bazanu
KWP, ABK, Salisu, Perraud
JWP, Lavia
Aribo, S. Armstrong, (new winger)
Adams (new striker)

And you’d still have Tino, Romeu, Redmond, A. Armstrong, Lyanco, Ely, Tella to name a few in reserve.

 

Edited 24 July, 2022 by FarehamSaintJames

[ErwinK1961]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

One day, when he's banging in goals for fun at a top European side we'll wistfully look back and say, 'why didn't we sign Kelvin Yaboah when we had the chance?'

I think we’ll actually be saying “why does saintant have yeboah spelt incorrectly on the back of his replica shirt?”

[saintant]

1 minute ago, ErwinK1961 said:

I think we’ll actually be saying “why does saintant have yeboah spelt incorrectly on the back of his replica shirt?”

A small price to pay 🙂

[Midlandsaint]

16 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Adams I’m a big fan of. If he could smash the ball a yard either side of the keeper rather than at him from point blank range then he’d be twice the player.

Armstrong I think will come good. Can’t write him off based on a couple of cameo appearances. RH chose to pick ninety-year old Shane Long ahead of him. I’d give him a chance with better service. I think he’d be better out wide off the left than through the middle.

Hudson-Odoi would be considered a coup, although I don’t really know what he’s done in his career. He earned a shit ton of money at a stupidly young age to deter him going to Bayern and then never kicked on from there.

I just see us spending more on that wide or attacking player then someone up front. Bring in a loanee striker (Liam Delap) plus Sekou Mars’s imminent arrival and change formation to 4-2-3-1 I think we’d do well.

For example:
Bazanu
KWP, ABK, Salisu, Perraud
JWP, Lavia
Aribo, S. Armstrong, (new winger)
Adams (new striker)

And you’d still have Tino, Romeu, Redmond, A. Armstrong, Lyanco, Ely, Tella to name a few in reserve.

 

No Mara? Not too far from what I’d have to be fair

[OttawaSaint]

32 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

I think Mara might be viewed as more of a wife forward than though the middle so he'll most likely be better than Redmond, Djeneppo, Walcott, Tella and Armstrong in that role. 

So nagging the other players and withholding sex if they don't pass to him?

[woodsaint1]

With City not willing to sell Delap, I wonder if we now face a dilemma in relation to deciding on Delap or McAtee on loan. Seem to be interested in both, but can only loan one. Joe Shields will be the ultimate decision maker knowing both very well. Think we'll get Delap on loan

[saintant]

Can't believe we aren't breaking the bank to sign Hungarian wizard Domonik Szoboszlai. One of the most gifted midfield players around. He has the lot including Ward Prowsesque free kicks. I know he'd never come here but his skills video is well worth a look - he's an absolute magician.

[Matthew Le God]

8 minutes ago, saintant said:

Can't believe we aren't breaking the bank to sign Hungarian wizard Domonik Szoboszlai. One of the most gifted midfield players around. He has the lot including Ward Prowsesque free kicks. I know he'd never come here but his skills video is well worth a look - he's an absolute magician.

If 'he'd never come here' why would they 'break the bank' trying?

[verlaine1979]

6 minutes ago, saintant said:

Can't believe we aren't breaking the bank to sign Hungarian wizard Domonik Szoboszlai. One of the most gifted midfield players around. He has the lot including Ward Prowsesque free kicks. I know he'd never come here but his skills video is well worth a look - he's an absolute magician.

Thanks for the tip - I laughed out loud a couple of times watching his highlights video. Ridiculous skills and audacity.

Will no doubt be off to one of the very biggest clubs if he has another good season at Leipzig (10 goals and 9 assists in 45 games and only 21 years old).

[SaintJackoInHurworth]

OK, but if we are talking of five more (I think that's what was said wasn't it?), who are the possibilities we know of so far?

Striker: Delap or Broja or Kalajdzic

Central Defender: Colwill or...?

Full back: Marcus Pedersen or ??

Midfielder: Harry Winks or James Mcatee or James Garner

Anyone else?

[Ldnsaint]

11 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

I disagree. Armstrong is anonymous at this level, Adams has talent and I’m a big fan of his, but he’s not a clinical striker. 

We need someone who can come and score goals, and on occasions make something out of nothing. We’re going to be relying on the defence for clean sheets to be able to grind out 1-0 wins. 

Broja 🙏

[beatlesaint]

9 minutes ago, Ldnsaint said:

Broja 🙏

I’ve seen a lot of people dismiss him and say “not worth the money” etc BUT the difference between him and Delap for example is that Broja has shown he can do it in the Premier League. Yes his form dipped at the end of last season but so did everybody else and secondly he was so isolated on his own up front even Harry Kane would have struggled. Play to his strengths and you’ve got a Premier League striker ready to go on your hands.

Edited 25 July, 2022 by beatlesaint

[sfc4prem]

Isn't it true that Broja didn't enjoy his time here and that relations soured in 2022?

[DT]

Just now, sfc4prem said:

Isn't it true that Broja didn't enjoy his time here and that relations soured in 2022?

His general demeanour would point to the rumours of that being true but some on here think it's balls. Given the way Ralph has treated some in the group I lean to it having some legs. Can't see him coming but maybe the Delap thing is part of a ruse to get Chelsea to accept the cash. (Doubt we're that sophisticated)

[Daft Kerplunk]

2 minutes ago, sfc4prem said:

Isn't it true that Broja didn't enjoy his time here and that relations soured in 2022?

Ralph. 

[MarkSFC]

3 minutes ago, DT said:

His general demeanour would point to the rumours of that being true but some on here think it's balls. Given the way Ralph has treated some in the group I lean to it having some legs. Can't see him coming but maybe the Delap thing is part of a ruse to get Chelsea to accept the cash. (Doubt we're that sophisticated)

Maybe his lack of form/lack of goals was a large part of his grumpy demeanour. Most sports people look grumpy when not performing to their expectations. When form dips individually of collectively there are bound to be tensions between athletes and coaches. Just another perspective or reasoning of "them not getting on" when none of really know. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

9 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

I’ve seen a lot of people dismiss him and say “not worth the money” etc BUT the difference between him and Delap for example is that Broja has shown he can do it in the Premier League. Yes his form dipped at the end of last season but so did everybody else and secondly he was so isolated on his own up front even Harry Kane would have struggled. Play to his strengths and you’ve got a Premier League striker ready to go on your hands.

I think if it came to a choice between the two, I would go for Broja. At least we would know what we are getting. He has scored goals at this level

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Edit

Edited 25 July, 2022 by Ex Lion Tamer
changed my mind - idle speculation

[LeBizzier69]

45 minutes ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

Ralph. 

I’d like to know what RH supposedly did/is being blamed for with Broja. Asking a player to stick to his plan? Give 100% in training? Don’t act like a billy big balls? Let’s face it, the modern  elite player (by and large) isn’t that keen on a strict disciplinarian….it would seem.

 

[John B]

50 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I think if it came to a choice between the two, I would go for Broja. At least we would know what we are getting. He has scored goals at this level

Yes I agree but doubt either want to come here 

[Miltonaggro]

Some good and interesting points being raised on this thread in terms of the potential club record fee for Delap and comparison to Broja - supporters know we have to get this one spot on in terms of prospects for the coming season.  Right now I'd probably go with Broja as first choice, if we have a choice, due to his having done it at the highest level.  However, in the videos of his youth team appearances Delap stands out so much it's a man against boys, in terms of power and control reminiscent of Kevin Davies when he joined us (aged just 20) or dare I say Wayne Rooney when he broke through at 18.  Other end of the park, Luke Shaw too at Saints fairly recently, we all saw that swagger and power.  Videos of course, but this unusual strength would suggest he will be able to handle his own against top flight defenders.  Another side of the coin is that if Delap comes in as our record signing at £25m plus we might be seeing another Poch Osvaldo or Pellegrino Carillo moment when the word of a senior coach (here our new HOR from Man City) is the driving factor.  Regardless, the purchase problems we are discussing now are infinitely better than at any time since Koeman.  

[CamSaint]

To my mind, the key question is: 'How long are Saints prepared to wait?'  Five and a half weeks until the transfer window 'slams shut' and in that time we play 5 PL matches. Given that Ralph has said been open about the need another striker, you'd like to think we'd want the 'Delap-type' striker to be involved in as many of those matches as possible. With at least 3 of those games against the big boys, the new striker might not necessarily make a difference to the outcome of those games, but training and playing in as many of them as possible would be invaluable to the team.

We clearly have pushed hard for Delap, but if City really are adamant that Delap will only be allowed out on loan, and with Burnley keen on him, that could be a deal that is finalised quickly and we move on. Or are Saints prepared to take him on loan and potentially end up in the same position at the end of the season as we were with Broja? If we are, then surely that deal could be struck quickly. However, if the Delap deal doesn't go our way would the club be prepared to wait as long as it takes in the hope they can get Broja back?

The club has moved pretty swiftly so far this window, and I am sure that they have other strikers 'on the list'. I just wonder how long it will be before they make a move for someone else.

[beatlesaint]

8 minutes ago, CamSaint said:

To my mind, the key question is: 'How long are Saints prepared to wait?'  Five and a half weeks until the transfer window 'slams shut' and in that time we play 5 PL matches. Given that Ralph has said been open about the need another striker, you'd like to think we'd want the 'Delap-type' striker to be involved in as many of those matches as possible. With at least 3 of those games against the big boys, the new striker might not necessarily make a difference to the outcome of those games, but training and playing in as many of them as possible would be invaluable to the team.

We clearly have pushed hard for Delap, but if City really are adamant that Delap will only be allowed out on loan, and with Burnley keen on him, that could be a deal that is finalised quickly and we move on. Or are Saints prepared to take him on loan and potentially end up in the same position at the end of the season as we were with Broja? If we are, then surely that deal could be struck quickly. However, if the Delap deal doesn't go our way would the club be prepared to wait as long as it takes in the hope they can get Broja back?

The club has moved pretty swiftly so far this window, and I am sure that they have other strikers 'on the list'. I just wonder how long it will be before they make a move for someone else.

I don’t understand why the talk is that if he goes on loan it will be to Burnley. Surely Pep and co would rather see him cutting his teeth in the Premier League, it’ll help them decide what to do with him next season as well.

If we got him in on loan, with the addition of Mara, Adams and Armstrong I suppose we could wait to see how things develop on the Broja front well into mid-end of August or it still gives us time to get another striker in permanently if they give up on the Broja option.

[Rebel]

a good read here -  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11045531/Southampton-reaping-benefits-hiring-Joe-Shields-head-senior-recruitment.html

I do like the strategy of bringing in young players with real potential and developing them. Lets hope Shields also has a great effect on our academy recruitment as well.

For one thing its the only way the team is going to get better in the long run. By bringing in the best young players developing them, selling them at a hefty profit and investing the money back in to the squad.  Although I worry that most of the profit will be go out of the club.

But we do need a solid spine of frame to the team of hardened professionals and good players at their peak to build around - and allow the good young players to develop.  A team full of 18-20 year olds getting beaten every work will get relegated for one thing - and is probably not the most conducive environment for getting the best out of the young players.

You probably need at least half of your starting 11 to be at this level if not more if its really going to work. 

[Piran]

With regard to the potential signing of Delap, I think it's worth making the comparison with the treatment given to another Man City youngster - Phil Foden. How long has he been known about? 3 years? Anyone could see he has massive potential, but the difference between the treatment Guardiola gave him, and the way that Saints would have to use Delap, is that Pep had some pretty good players at his disposal, and was able to pick and choose when to give Foden time, even though football fans everywhere were thinking "Why hasn't he picked Foden?"

I guess what I'm saying is that I would prefer a more experienced purchase for the forward line, even if only to protect Delap himself for a bit longer, which is what I suspect Pep is doing.

[Greenridge]

2 hours ago, DT said:

His general demeanour would point to the rumours of that being true but some on here think it's balls. Given the way Ralph has treated some in the group I lean to it having some legs. Can't see him coming but maybe the Delap thing is part of a ruse to get Chelsea to accept the cash. (Doubt we're that sophisticated)

Saint Garrett, who appears to have some level of ITK, says that's cobblers.

[Wade Garrett]

55 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

I don’t understand why the talk is that if he goes on loan it will be to Burnley. Surely Pep and co would rather see him cutting his teeth in the Premier League, it’ll help them decide what to do with him next season as well.

If we got him in on loan, with the addition of Mara, Adams and Armstrong I suppose we could wait to see how things develop on the Broja front well into mid-end of August or it still gives us time to get another striker in permanently if they give up on the Broja option.

I reckon Pep is desperate to do his old captain a favour.

I still don’t think this signing is out of the question.  Pep has just signed 2 young strikers for nearly £100m.  He isn’t going to get in in front of those two.

[Chez]

2 hours ago, sfc4prem said:

Isn't it true that Broja didn't enjoy his time here and that relations soured in 2022?

We don't know. But other than a few posts on here suggesting he looked unhappy at being subbed (and seeing Shane Long then score) and obviously not doing a lot in the last ten games, what evidence is there?

I'd suggest his farewell message felt a little `final' and didn't hint at the possibility of him coming back or even wanting to, but I've probably read far more into that than I should. If I put myself in his shoes, I'd be thinking, I've done my time at Saints, now what is the next step - a bigger club or even first team Chelsea.  Wanting that and it happen are two different things of course.

[Chez]

2 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I think if it came to a choice between the two, I would go for Broja. At least we would know what we are getting. He has scored goals at this level

I'd go Broja just because of that pace. He is a real threat all on his own - which we need as we don't create much.

However, maybe Delap has attributes that Broja doesn't? Better vision or decision making? More clinical? 

[DT]

11 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

I reckon Pep is desperate to do his old captain a favour.

I still don’t think this signing is out of the question.  Pep has just signed 2 young strikers for nearly £100m.  He isn’t going to get in in front of those two.

I actually think City are viewing him as Pep's long-term replacement, quite possibly, depending on how he gets on. Therefore having Delap would help that. Also, maybe City are now a bit miffed about us having their chief talent spotter and want to stop a full exodus.

[DT]

Everton interested in Broja now too apparently

[Chez]

16 minutes ago, Piran said:

With regard to the potential signing of Delap, I think it's worth making the comparison with the treatment given to another Man City youngster - Phil Foden. How long has he been known about? 3 years? Anyone could see he has massive potential, but the difference between the treatment Guardiola gave him, and the way that Saints would have to use Delap, is that Pep had some pretty good players at his disposal, and was able to pick and choose when to give Foden time, even though football fans everywhere were thinking "Why hasn't he picked Foden?"

I guess what I'm saying is that I would prefer a more experienced purchase for the forward line, even if only to protect Delap himself for a bit longer, which is what I suspect Pep is doing.

very good post. I guess we do have Adams (obviously not in the same ballpark as the City players) as a senior guy to lead the line and enable Delap to be filtered in, however if we play two up front then like Broja, we will want/need Delap (or whoever) to make an immediate impact.

[Chez]

1 minute ago, DT said:

Everton interested in Broja now too apparently

while the `i' newspaper reported that West Ham were not longer interested. It's hard to keep up with all these stories. It feels like a lot of rehashing of old news takes place rather than them all being in the know.

[FarehamSaintJames]

26 minutes ago, DT said:

Everton interested in Broja now too apparently

Can see it with the Lampard link.

[Viking Saint]

14 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Adams I’m a big fan of. If he could smash the ball a yard either side of the keeper rather than at him from point blank range then he’d be twice the player.

Armstrong I think will come good. Can’t write him off based on a couple of cameo appearances. RH chose to pick ninety-year old Shane Long ahead of him. I’d give him a chance with better service. I think he’d be better out wide off the left than through the middle.

Hudson-Odoi would be considered a coup, although I don’t really know what he’s done in his career. He earned a shit ton of money at a stupidly young age to deter him going to Bayern and then never kicked on from there.

I just see us spending more on that wide or attacking player then someone up front. Bring in a loanee striker (Liam Delap) plus Sekou Mars’s imminent arrival and change formation to 4-2-3-1 I think we’d do well.

For example:
Bazanu
KWP, ABK, Salisu, Perraud
JWP, Lavia
Aribo, S. Armstrong, (new winger)
Adams (new striker)

And you’d still have Tino, Romeu, Redmond, A. Armstrong, Lyanco, Ely, Tella to name a few in reserve.

 

I like Adams too, he works hard amd gets into decent positons but the simple fact is that he is chronically one footed and his left is purely for standing on, so until that aspect of his play is addressed, he won't be anywhere near as prolific as the rest of the game should enable him to be.

[revolution saint]

42 minutes ago, Piran said:

With regard to the potential signing of Delap, I think it's worth making the comparison with the treatment given to another Man City youngster - Phil Foden. How long has he been known about? 3 years? Anyone could see he has massive potential, but the difference between the treatment Guardiola gave him, and the way that Saints would have to use Delap, is that Pep had some pretty good players at his disposal, and was able to pick and choose when to give Foden time, even though football fans everywhere were thinking "Why hasn't he picked Foden?"

I guess what I'm saying is that I would prefer a more experienced purchase for the forward line, even if only to protect Delap himself for a bit longer, which is what I suspect Pep is doing.

I think the issue with Foden is a bit more complex.  Suspect one of the reasons he wasn't really used much initially was that physically it was more of a struggle to compete in the premier league at a young age; he's not exactly a big lad.  The other thing, and this is more of a general big club thing, is that the bar for a young player to break into the team is that much higher.  Simply put they're not better than the experienced internationals City already have.  Arguably Foden would have progressed quicker and be better if he had more regular gametime.  We'll never know but the fact that he's a very good player now doesn't necessarily mean he wouldn't also be if he had taken a different route.

With regard to Delap - physically he probably won't have any problems, I don't know about talent wise but there's definitely a spot for him here whereas there isn't anything more than substitute and cup appearances at City.  If I were Delap (or any other similar player) then I'd be backing myself and want to play as much and as quickly as possible.  For every Foden there's a Jude Bellingham, Sancho, Rashford etc etc.

[manji]

5 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Can see it with the Lampard link.

Everton have had a shocking tour of the USA. Fans are already calling for Fat Franks head. They want Sean Dyche. One of the games they played Charlotte, they had full strength squad lost 3-0 and were awful.

Fucking hate that club.

[Turkish]

Just now, manji said:

Everton have had a shocking tour of the USA. Fans are already calling for Fat Franks head. They want Sean Dyche. One of the games they played Charlotte, they had full strength squad lost 3-0 and were awful.

Fucking hate that club.

Ha, how the mighty have fallen, giving it large when they took Koeman, now desperate to get Sean Dyche in. Dont mind Dyche as a manager  but hardly the billy big bollocks they were a few season ago when they thought they were on an unstoppable march to the champions league. Lampard will be the first manager sacked IMO

[Chez]

1 minute ago, Viking Saint said:

I like Adams too, he works hard amd gets into decent positons but the simple fact is that he is chronically one footed and his left is purely for standing on, so until that aspect of his play is addressed, he won't be anywhere near as prolific as the rest of the game should enable him to be.

One footed players don't become two footed in their 27 year. 

I am not sure why Saints fans in general like Adams so much. The best performance I've seen was when he played for Scotland against England and he basically held the ball up really well that night, and gave Scotland an out ball. I don't recall too many games when he was in the picture for man of the match (unless you are one of those that gives MOTM out to the guy that scored). He's scored a few goals, a couple of blinders in fact, but he's very `middling'. And before we get into a discussion of whether `middling' is exactly what a small club like us wants, I mean, he ain't woeful, but he ain't all that either. He does a job, but is that job as good as Ings or other Saints strikers? I'd say no, so there is no reason not to want or indeed expect better. If we sold him, I wouldn't be all that fussed, but of course it would be down to the success of the replacement. 

[Chez]

4 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

I think the issue with Foden is a bit more complex.  Suspect one of the reasons he wasn't really used much initially was that physically it was more of a struggle to compete in the premier league at a young age; he's not exactly a big lad.  The other thing, and this is more of a general big club thing, is that the bar for a young player to break into the team is that much higher.  Simply put they're not better than the experienced internationals City already have.  Arguably Foden would have progressed quicker and be better if he had more regular gametime.  We'll never know but the fact that he's a very good player now doesn't necessarily mean he wouldn't also be if he had taken a different route.

.

Agree with your comments, but I got the feeling Pep felt that him staying and training (which includes a lot of actual football games) with the quality players at City was more beneficial than going out on loan and playing/training with lessor players. The fact he's now bloody brilliant possibly justifies that decision, but we will never know.

On a similar subject, does, say 20 games out on loan at a lower league really develop you as a player? OK, so you need some first team games with big crowds and high intensity matches, but these guys train every day at high intensity and that plays a huge part in their development. Perhaps getting young guys into mans football is essential, but putting that aspect to one side, is first team games the be all and end all in terms of player development? 

 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

53 minutes ago, DT said:

I actually think City are viewing him as Pep's long-term replacement, quite possibly, depending on how he gets on. Therefore having Delap would help that. Also, maybe City are now a bit miffed about us having their chief talent spotter and want to stop a full exodus.

Would have to be very long term! He didn't exactly pull up any trees with Anderlecht when he was with them. Not sure hecis going to fare any better with Burnley 

[tajjuk]

4 minutes ago, Chez said:

is first team games the be all and end all in terms of player development? 

I'd point to the likes of Walcott or Oxlaide-Chamberlain not really reaching their predicted heights, compared to the say the rapid development of Sancho at Dortmund after leaving City. 

More young players seem to be cottoning on that sitting on the bench, playing U23s or league cup football for a big club is not great for their development compared to getting regular playing time (and probably less money) at a lesser club. 

Yes training and coaches is important, but it's hardly like coming here for example you are training on a muddy field with a bunch of semi-pros, we have elite facilities, top level coaches and international level players. So it's going to depend on where the loan is, the amount of game time, quality of the league, facilities all that, but I still think the general consensus is first team loans generally help a player improve better than just training and reserve football. 

[AlexLaw76]

21 minutes ago, manji said:

Everton have had a shocking tour of the USA. Fans are already calling for Fat Franks head. They want Sean Dyche. One of the games they played Charlotte, they had full strength squad lost 3-0 and were awful.

Fucking hate that club.

Results in pre-season do not matter.  All about 'minutes in the tank'

[spyinthesky]

24 minutes ago, Chez said:

One footed players don't become two footed in their 27 year. 

I am not sure why Saints fans in general like Adams so much. The best performance I've seen was when he played for Scotland against England and he basically held the ball up really well that night, and gave Scotland an out ball. I don't recall too many games when he was in the picture for man of the match (unless you are one of those that gives MOTM out to the guy that scored). He's scored a few goals, a couple of blinders in fact, but he's very `middling'. And before we get into a discussion of whether `middling' is exactly what a small club like us wants, I mean, he ain't woeful, but he ain't all that either. He does a job, but is that job as good as Ings or other Saints strikers? I'd say no, so there is no reason not to want or indeed expect better. If we sold him, I wouldn't be all that fussed, but of course it would be down to the success of the replacement. 

Fair summation

[Chez]

3 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

 

Yes training and coaches is important, but it's hardly like coming here for example you are training on a muddy field with a bunch of semi-pros, we have elite facilities, top level coaches and international level players. So it's going to depend on where the loan is, the amount of game time, quality of the league, facilities all that, but I still think the general consensus is first team loans generally help a player improve better than just training and reserve football. 

if you are Delap and every day you are training (with Pep running things) and playing against Dias and Laporte, does that test you and help you improve more than if you were at Saints, with Ralph and Bednarek? 

You are right that the general consensus is that first team loans is the better way to improve players, but not doing so doesn't seem to have harmed Foden, hence I wonder if its accurate.

[RobM]

The answer is both, surely? Training every day with the best will make you better, not just in footballing terms but health, commitment, preparation, diet, concentration, etc, etc. And since everyone at City has to fight for their place, it's safe to assume the likes of Dias and Laporte are hardly going to take it easy in training, so it'll be a real test for Delap.

But IMO nothing beats meaningful competition, playing in front of a crowd full of fans, and having pressure to perform well or else you lose your place. That's why loans are favoured over training ground friendlies when a player needs to develop, and loans tend to be favoured when you see a place in your first team for the player. If Pep thinks Delap is likely to get more first team playing time in the coming years, it's easy to see why he might favour a loan to a competitive division to start with.

[Chez]

7 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

Fair summation

if he scores say 15 league goals this season, perhaps due to a change on formation/tactic/position, us being better and more chances being created, my post won't age well. Is that likely or even possible?

We need options and without question he is going to be one this season, so lets hope that's exactly what happens and he and Saints flourish. Fingers crossed.