Summer 2022 Transfer Window

[Bad Wolf]

4 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I reckon at the start of the season, if someone had said we would be unbeaten against both Manchester clubs, beat Spurs and West Ham away, and stay up, we would have taken it.

Also, good account given in both cups and knocked out against City and Chelsea respectively.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

The thing which totally skewed it all is the end of the season.

Had we got to 40 points in a relatively normal way, the odd win, the odd draws, the odd defeats, it would probably not look as extreme. But the run of defeats at the end was so horrendous that it makes it hard to really put the entire season into perspective.

Agreed. The latter stage of the season was horrific. Summed up by the awful display against Watford. 

[beatlesaint]

39 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Agreed. The latter stage of the season was horrific. Summed up by the awful display against Watford. 

Absolutely, the main reason people view last season as bad is because the last third of the season we didn’t simply hit a bad run of form, we were horrendous and it looked for all the world like the players had just given up and didn’t care. Add to that the change of style of play after the Chelsea hammering to something….well it wasn’t safer cos we still let in a load of goals.

There we’re pretty big alarm bells being sounded, and it’s no wonder the optimism levels for the new season are reserved at best.

[mitch01]

I'd like Redmond to stay. He is good. I reckon this would be more reflected in his stats with a better team around him, which I think we are building - but I concede this is only my intuition. (For context, I've been right about JWP but wrong about others eg Gaston Ramirez...). I don't rate Walcott particularly and wouldn't mind seeing either of the other two wingers leave either.

 

Generally I think Redmond gets a terrible rap from fans, perhaps a hangover from some v bad performances in the Pellegrino year.

[warsash saint]

1 minute ago, mitch01 said:

I'd like Redmond to stay. He is good. I reckon this would be more reflected in his stats with a better team around him, which I think we are building - but I concede this is only my intuition. (For context, I've been right about JWP but wrong about others eg Gaston Ramirez...). I don't rate Walcott particularly and wouldn't mind seeing either of the other two wingers leave either.

 

Generally I think Redmond gets a terrible rap from fans, perhaps a hangover from some v bad performances in the Pellegrino year.

& every Manager since!

[Saint Fan CaM]

1 minute ago, mitch01 said:

I'd like Redmond to stay. He is good. I reckon this would be more reflected in his stats with a better team around him, which I think we are building - but I concede this is only my intuition. (For context, I've been right about JWP but wrong about others eg Gaston Ramirez...). I don't rate Walcott particularly and wouldn't mind seeing either of the other two wingers leave either.

 

Generally I think Redmond gets a terrible rap from fans, perhaps a hangover from some v bad performances in the Pellegrino year.

My view on Redmond and Walcott are that they're not the future and we need faster legs in the team, but they do bring huge experience / gravitas to the changing room which is so important for the younger players to feed off.  For that reason I've no problem with their squad presence providing they do not provide a barrier to the younger players getting game time.

[mitch01]

3 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

& every Manager since!

I disagree! I actually think he's been a big part of keeping us the right side of the line on a few occasions (Hughes season, Ralph first season for example) But there you go.

[goodymatt]

Redmond is a frustrating player, he’s clearly very talented but confidence seems to massively affect his performances. Technical ability wise he’s got it. You do wonder, as mentioned above, if the quality of our team has hindered his progress over the years (leading to dips in confidence) but I think his issues are not down to his ability.

On the rare occasion he’s on it, he looks very good. His dribbling ability and acceleration is better than most in our squad. Hasn’t really fulfilled his potential and has left me wanting more from him. Perhaps a change would do him good, but we would struggle to get a squad player in of his ability to replace him.

[igsey]

I clearly remember saying to myself (and possibly on here too) that I never wanted to see Redmond in a Saints shirt again.

Then he won Player of the Season the next year.

[MarkSFC]

2 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

Redmond is a frustrating player, he’s clearly very talented but confidence seems to massively affect his performances. Technical ability wise he’s got it. You do wonder, as mentioned above, if the quality of our team has hindered his progress over the years (leading to dips in confidence) but I think his issues are not down to his ability.

On the rare occasion he’s on it, he looks very good. His dribbling ability and acceleration is better than most in our squad. Hasn’t really fulfilled his potential and has left me wanting more from him. Perhaps a change would do him good, but we would struggle to get a squad player in of his ability to replace him.

Pretty much sums up my opinion of him. 

Not quite effective enough to be relied on and doesn't score enough, but if he is mostly on our bench and sort of takes on the "Long" role of being the speed option late on in a game, he is a decent option. Doubt we'd get better to be mostly on the bench, unless it's a kid. Sell or stay I'm not overly bothered unless he remains first choice!!

[Lighthouse]

2 hours ago, tajjuk said:

Average is fine for a squad player IMO, we can't replace the whole team, there are 5 subs next season as well so more chances to refresh a tired team. 

I can’t envisage any scenario whereby you’d want to bring Moi on though. Certainly not if you’re chasing a game and need to change things and not if you want warriors to stand up and be counted to see out a game.

[S-Clarke]

11 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

Redmond is a frustrating player, he’s clearly very talented but confidence seems to massively affect his performances. Technical ability wise he’s got it. You do wonder, as mentioned above, if the quality of our team has hindered his progress over the years (leading to dips in confidence) but I think his issues are not down to his ability.

On the rare occasion he’s on it, he looks very good. His dribbling ability and acceleration is better than most in our squad. Hasn’t really fulfilled his potential and has left me wanting more from him. Perhaps a change would do him good, but we would struggle to get a squad player in of his ability to replace him.

I think the key thing with Redmond is that he doesn't really have a great deal of football intelligence.

Technically, like you said, he's good. He's got a somewhat decent touch, he's got pace and can beat a man with dribbling. But 9 times out of 10 he makes the wrong decision and doesn't seem to know what to do when he has the ball. In the PL you have split seconds to make the right choices, and he just struggles with that.

He stands out in games in the FA Cup against lower teams as he has more space and more time to think about what he wants to do, but whilst he's not technically dreadful he has absolutely zero football brain to be truly effective over a consistent basis at the highest level.

Edited 7 July, 2022 by S-Clarke

[goodymatt]

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I think the key thing with Redmond is that he doesn't really have a great deal of football intelligence.

Technically, like you said, he's good. He's got a somewhat decent touch, he's got pace and can beat a man with dribbling. But 9 times out of 10 he makes the wrong decision and doesn't seem to know what to do when he has the ball. In the PL you have split seconds to make the right choices, and he just struggles with that.

He stands out in games in the FA Cup against lower teams as he has more space and more time to think about what he wants to do, but whilst he's not technically dreadful he has absolutely zero football brain to be truly effective over a consistent basis at the highest level.

Zero football brain might be a little harsh, but agree with his decision making being too slow to be a decent PL starter for us.

We have seen flashes, against big teams even, where he’s not had time to think and scored a decent goal. City and Liverpool come to mind. Agree that he has looked class against championship opposition, maybe we should keep him as an insurance policy in case we do get relegated… Jokes aside, that is probably the level of player we can afford to have on our bench.

So many times though, we’ve been chasing games or need to break through a low block and he just can’t figure out the next move. We are desperate for a player in those number 10 positions that can do that, is Aribo the answer?

[tajjuk]

7 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I can’t envisage any scenario whereby you’d want to bring Moi on though. Certainly not if you’re chasing a game and need to change things and not if you want warriors to stand up and be counted to see out a game.

Harsh IMO, he's technically sound, has a decent long shot on him, makes decent runs into the box and works very hard most of the times I have seen him. Just lacks that explosive pace or change of direction to reliably beat people.  I see no issue with him coming on in either situation, he works hard enough to keep the press pressure up, is good enough on the ball to not concede turnovers and with his runs and cutting in will at least occupy a defender, plus like I said he's got a goal out of nothing in him. 

I wouldn't rely on him as a regular starter, but I trust him as a squad player more than Djenepo and probably more than Redmond, he is a player IMO that is reliable to give a decent performance most of the time, just unlikely to produce an exceptional one. 

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

Zero football brain might be a little harsh, but agree with his decision making being too slow to be a decent PL starter for us.

We have seen flashes, against big teams even, where he’s not had time to think and scored a decent goal. City and Liverpool come to mind. Agree that he has looked class against championship opposition, maybe we should keep him as an insurance policy in case we do get relegated… Jokes aside, that is probably the level of player we can afford to have on our bench.

So many times though, we’ve been chasing games or need to break through a low block and he just can’t figure out the next move. We are desperate for a player in those number 10 positions that can do that, is Aribo the answer?

Yeah, maybe a tiny bit harsh! I think his football is limited though and decision making is a problem. I'm not a Redmond fan but I'd much prefer to have him on the bench than Moussa for example. 

I wouldn't say Aribo is a mega-pacy player, but he's someone with a tight enough touch and better physicality to be able to buy himself enough time. I think we'll see our first choice 10's as Aribo and Armstrong, both playing inverted from their wide positions - with the width being supplied by the attacking full backs. I think that suits Aribo more than being an out and out wide man.

[SaintJackoInHurworth]

The whole question of our current wingers and attacking midfielders is a frustrating one. I guess the question must be which ones are best and worst and which ones have the potential to improve. I would put Tella in the potential to improve category, but most of the rest are at an age where they should be around their best. The slightly harder one to assess is Djenepo who has failed to live up to expectations by a street but still shows flashes of latent ability which goes well beyond the others - if only he could turn it into anything meaningful. He is also still only 24 so could still improve with the right coaching.

Excluding Tella from my ranking for now, I would personally rank the players as follows:

1. Stuart Armstrong
2. Nathan Redmond
3. Moussa Djenepo (on the basis of latent ability)
4. Moi Elyounousi
5. Theo Walcott

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

2 hours ago, tajjuk said:

Recency bias, we were bad in the last third of the season therefore we were bad all the time. 

Recent form is the best indicator of future form. Hopefully things now change with the incomings, but to simply put it down to "recency bias" is naive at best. It wasn't the first time we had such a poor run of form and quite frankly is was utter utter clueless turd not just "bad"

[Lighthouse]

22 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

he is a player IMO that is reliable to give a decent performance most of the time

I’m afraid I just don’t agree with that. Moi benefits hugely from the positional paradox. If a keeper makes six errors which lead to goals in a whole season, he gets labled a liability. If a creative or attacking player like Moi has six whole games where he’s anonymous, they are largely forgotten about because they were by definition forgettable performances.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

8 minutes ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Recent form is the best indicator of future form. Hopefully things now change with the incomings, but to simply put it down to "recency bias" is naive at best. It wasn't the first time we had such a poor run of form and quite frankly is was utter utter clueless turd not just "bad"

Isn't the point though that we have had awful runs of form before and come back to have absolutely great ones? 

I don't think Ralph will ever get the team performing consistently over a whole season, but I also don't think that last season's bad run has much relevance for this one.

I predict a slightly slow start as the new players get to know the system following by a brilliant one in the run up to Christmas

Edited 7 July, 2022 by Ex Lion Tamer

[Ex Lion Tamer]

16 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I’m afraid I just don’t agree with that. Moi benefits hugely from the positional paradox. If a keeper makes six errors which lead to goals in a whole season, he gets labled a liability. If a creative or attacking player like Moi has six whole games where he’s anonymous, they are largely forgotten about because they were by definition forgettable performances.

The thing is, we might consider him anonymous because he's not making key passes or goal involvements, but Ralph will be looking at his positioning and pressing and thinking this guy is playing a useful role for the team. And anonymous is better than making mistakes all over the park

[Chewy]

FWIW I think Moi is utterly pointless. When he was first here he was horrific. He’s improved in that he doesn’t do everything wrong, it’s just that he does nothing except occupy a space on the pitch. 
Very occasionally he receives a ball and passes it to a team mate. And that’s it.

Utter waste of time.

Redmond is frustrating and messes up more often than not, but at least he’s trying something; trying to be proactive; and very occasionally it works too.

It might be a bit like picking a favourite from Gove and Rees-Mogg, but I’d have Redmond over Moi every single time.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

15 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Isn't the point though that we have had awful runs of form before and come back to have absolutely great ones? 

I don't think Ralph will ever get the team performing consistently over a whole season, but I also don't think that last season's bad run has much relevance for this one.

I predict a slightly slow start as the new players get to know the system following by a brilliant one in the run up to Christmas

I guess a good question is how long Ralph has if we are having a dreadful start 10 games in or so. He seemed utterly clueless during the run in. But this is going over old ground. I'm really glad the new owners are at least attempting to address the player issues we currently have

[warwicksaint]

FWIW i think all of our 10’s are pretty crap on the whole with no consistency game on game. All this debate shows is we desperately need some money pumped into the 10 and striker position as we’re badly lacking creativity 

[Teddeer]

1 hour ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Isn't the point though that we have had awful runs of form before and come back to have absolutely great ones? 

I don't think Ralph will ever get the team performing consistently over a whole season, but I also don't think that last season's bad run has much relevance for this one.

I predict a slightly slow start as the new players get to know the system following by a brilliant one in the run up to Christmas

It's not difficult to predict a slow start for Saints because it happens every season. Time it was rectified but I'll not hold my breath.

[Smirking_Saint]

4 hours ago, tajjuk said:

Average is fine for a squad player IMO, we can't replace the whole team, there are 5 subs next season as well so more chances to refresh a tired team. 

Spot on Taj… Ralph trusts him and Moi is tactically flexible, he can even play CM at a push

Not a bad option at all from the bench

Had we not brought in first team replacements Id be concerned, but seeing as we have this feels sensible

[Teddeer]

Still very quiet on the striker front. Maybe we are still trying to get Broja signed and don't want to show our cards or reveal other options until the future of him is settled one way or another.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

19 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

It's not difficult to predict a slow start for Saints because it happens every season. Time it was rectified but I'll not hold my breath.

It's been happening for as long as I've been a Saints for sure. But especially likely under a "system" manager like Ralph who needs time to embed his methods in the players

[SuperSAINT]

 

 

[Diabolus Ex Machina]

28 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

It's not difficult to predict a slow start for Saints because it happens every season. Time it was rectified but I'll not hold my breath.

2020-21 season - 5 wins and a draw in our first 8 games, so not every season and not even every season under Ralph. Then again we lost literally half our league games that season (highest amount since our Prem return) so even a good start wouldn't signify we'll have a decent season.

[Saint IQ]

Another one coming on board the train tomorrow evening or over the weekend.

[Bad Wolf]

Just now, Saint IQ said:

Another one coming on board the train tomorrow evening or over the weekend.

The guy from Rangers or another another one?

[Saint IQ]

I would guess the Rangers one from reports might be someone else though 🤷🏼‍♂️ 

3 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

The guy from Rangers or another another one?

 

[AlexLaw76]

40 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

 

 

He looked good in the Europa Conference final

[Convict Colony]

1 hour ago, SuperSAINT said:

 

 

He was one I wanted us to get, was good for feyenoord all season but let's see what the board do for us then, maybe a bit overpriced siniesterra.

[AlexLaw76]

Focusing on Liam Delap now, apparently 

[S-Clarke]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

Focusing on Liam Delap now, apparently 

As expected.

[SuperSAINT]

3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

As expected.

Everything kind of looks obvious for this one…

• We have a striker-sized hole

• City want to farm him out

• Joe Shields

• #Saintsy

• Spiritual Home™️ 

[LuckyNumber7]

Heard Alex Crook (I know) on Talksport earlier talking about the Aribo signing, he said he was fascinated by the Saints 'project' and has been told there will be 'many more' incomings.

Personally think after Aribo we will surely get a striker. Then any further additions will be dependent on who we can shift.

[SNSUN]

1 minute ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Heard Alex Crook (I know) on Talksport earlier talking about the Aribo signing, he said he was fascinated by the Saints 'project' and has been told there will be 'many more' incomings.

Personally think after Aribo we will surely get a striker. Then any further additions will be dependent on who we can shift.

I've been saying for a couple of seasons now we've been accumulating crappy AMs - Armstrong is decent but has had his injury/illness issues leading to inconsistency, and then after that we have Redmond, Djenepo, Tella, Moi and Walcott (and occasionally Smallbone) as attacking midfielders, doing largely very little - and that's before we get to other positions. I'm glad the club has seen that we needed revolution rather than evolution this summer and hopefully we go on to sign a few more players yet. 

[whiteleySaint30]

12 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Focusing on Liam Delap now, apparently 

Would be happy with this one but we must also bring in an additional experienced striker (Dennis, kalajdzic etc) who will likely cost a fair bit of cash.....

[revolution saint]

6 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

I've been saying for a couple of seasons now we've been accumulating crappy AMs - Armstrong is decent but has had his injury/illness issues leading to inconsistency, and then after that we have Redmond, Djenepo, Tella, Moi and Walcott (and occasionally Smallbone) as attacking midfielders, doing largely very little - and that's before we get to other positions. I'm glad the club has seen that we needed revolution rather than evolution this summer and hopefully we go on to sign a few more players yet. 

Recognition at last, cheers mush.  For info I have a football for a brain, a wand of a left foot and a hammer of a right foot.  I'm one for the future and come with bags of experience.

[SNSUN]

2 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Recognition at last, cheers mush.  For info I have a football for a brain, a wand of a left foot and a hammer of a right foot.  I'm one for the future and come with bags of experience.

As long as you're better than Walcott, it's a no-brainer. 😜

[Turkish]

Whilst we seem to have a clear strategy and ambition now remember not every new young player will be a Liveramento. In fact Thierry Small joined us at the same time as him, he'd played in Evertons first team yet on his appearance here looked miles away from being ready for the first team. Lets hope these new lads are more Tino than Small. 

[S-Clarke]

11 minutes ago, whiteleySaint30 said:

Would be happy with this one but we must also bring in an additional experienced striker (Dennis, kalajdzic etc) who will likely cost a fair bit of cash.....

I can see a loan for Delap and a perm signing of Kalajdic. Technically we do have two striker holes in Long and Broja.

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

I can see a loan for Delap and a perm signing of Kalajdic. Technically we do have two striker holes in Long and Broja.

that's what i'm thinking, one loan one perm.

[S-Clarke]

4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Whilst we seem to have a clear strategy and ambition now remember not every new young player will be a Liveramento. In fact Thierry Small joined us at the same time as him, he'd played in Evertons first team yet on his appearance here looked miles away from being ready for the first team. Lets hope these new lads are more Tino than Small. 

I know what you mean, and that's why this window is a bit conflicting for me in the sense of being exciting and somewhat risky.

I think Aribo will add some know how, he's not an unknown youth player and possibly a more experienced striker and full back cover will plug those holes. The club did blow the Tino trumpet a lot but like you say, not every young player is going to be a Tino as in hitting the ground from day 1. There is potentially an adjustment phase for the majority, I'd say Tino is a bit of a freak in that sense.

[coalman]

Delap on perm. Broja on perm. Simples.

[Saint Garrett]

2 minutes ago, coalman said:

Delap on perm. Broja on perm. Simples.

Broja depends on Hudson Odoi deal. Loan / Perm. Can only loan one.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

12 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

Broja depends on Hudson Odoi deal. Loan / Perm. Can only loan one.

Are we seriously looking at Hudoson Odoi?

[Holmes_and_Watson]

6 hours ago, Turkish said:

Looks like the door is open to Walcott staying. Some talk yesterday about him being still the quickest at the club and a new slate with the new coaching team. 

I'd like him to do well. But any speed he had, didn't translate into him having an impact on all the other things on the pitch. If we keep Mo, and if Aribo turns out not to be blistering, then having a pacey option is no bad thing. But it's a very high wage when we could be getting someone cheaper, and probably more effective, for that option.

Besides, it was Ralph making the selection calls last season, and it is now. I'm not sure how the new set up changes things, unless the last lot were sabotaging Walcott's training, regressing him into what we saw. 🙂