Russia

[mack rill]

got to be looking at no fly zone over Ukraine. Vlad gets away with this mistake or not Nato will be shown to be week. 

[Lighthouse]

2 minutes ago, mack rill said:

got to be looking at no fly zone over Ukraine. Vlad gets away with this mistake or not Nato will be shown to be week. 

Can’t see that happening, everyone knows this is most likely a genuine mistake and not an escalation. There may well be beefed up air defences within NATO territory but I can’t see much more than that.

[badgerx16]

13 minutes ago, mack rill said:

got to be looking at no fly zone over Ukraine. Vlad gets away with this mistake or not Nato will be shown to be week. 

No fly zone creates problems; it prevents Ukrainian flights as well as Russian, NATO IFF systems would not be able to discriminate. It also puts NATO assets at direct risk of Russian provocation and risk of escalation - what happens the first time an F16 shoots down a Russian MiG that has refused to co-operate ?.

Edited 15 November, 2022 by badgerx16

[Saint in Paradise]

 

 

From the excellent video  posted above, it would make very little difference if NATO were to institute a no-fly zone over the territory the Ukrainians control,

in terms of battlefront ops. However, it would increase the destruction of any Russian missiles launched. This would, however, be much more efficiently and

safely done by supplying more SAMs.

The Poles have stated the missiles are Russian. They have invoked Article Four - not Five - which means consultations with NATO allies about territories

being threatened (not violated, which is Article Five). Unsurprisingly, these will be held tomorrow.
 

 

[buctootim]

12 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Can’t see that happening, everyone knows this is most likely a genuine mistake and not an escalation. 

Agree that's most likely. However the next village over from the missile site is called Ameryka (America when translated from either Polish or Ukrainian). Cant rule out some Russian saddo thinking it would be a massively important psychological blow to bomb America.  

[skintsaint]

Still losing the top brass..

Edited 16 November, 2022 by skintsaint

[skintsaint]

Comical

[Jimmy_D]

Appears likely it was Ukrainian air defence that resulted in the hit in Poland, although no final conclusion made yet.

It’s still due to the Russian’s illegal attacks that it even had the chance of happening, of course, and there’s no way Ukraine could have just ignored an incoming missile because it was close to the border, but it’ll be a different response to if it’d been directly from Russia, accidental or otherwise.

Ukraine are getting better at defending all the time, between experience and cutting edge tech. NASAMS reportedly has a 100% success rate for interceptions so far, with the first two systems being used in Ukraine, and new systems due to be delivered as soon as they’re produced. EW systems have reportedly allowed Ukraine to start actually capturing Iranian drones.

It’s incredibly tough for Ukraine, but it appears that they can repair their infrastructure faster than Russia have the ability to damage it now, with unsustainable numbers of missiles required to do anything at all.

[skintsaint]

2 hours ago, Jimmy_D said:

but it appears that they can repair their infrastructure faster than Russia have the ability to damage it now

The only thing Russia had going right for them as well. Shame.

[skintsaint]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63676446

What's everyone's take on this?

Perfidy or exectution?

[badgerx16]

7 hours ago, skintsaint said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63676446

What's everyone's take on this?

Perfidy or exectution?

Perfidy. Once the last orc came out firing the Ukrainians had no idea whether any of the others were armed - there have been cases of Russians "surrendering" but carrying concealed hand grenades. The men on the ground knew something was happening, one of them turns his head to look back at the last man to emerge, and the bloke on the PKM machine gun just opened fire in response and sprayed anybody not wearing a yellow arm band. The Russians claim that some them being shot in the head is evidence of execution, but given where and how they were lying down relative to the gunner, that is where his bullets would have hit them.

They would still be alive if that last 'hero' hadn't been an idiot, most likely drunk.

 

And the idea of the Kremlin crying about a potential War Crime is laughable.

Edited 19 November, 2022 by badgerx16

[cloggy saint]

9 hours ago, skintsaint said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63676446

What's everyone's take on this?

Perfidy or exectution?

My take on this? Fuck 'em.

[Jimmy_D]

15 hours ago, skintsaint said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63676446

What's everyone's take on this?

Perfidy or exectution?

I’d imagine an investigation will take place, but from what I’ve seen of discussions between people with far more knowledge of the legal side than me, it’s perfidy. Fake surrender is yet another war crime to add to the list.

It’s also an example of how well trained Ukraine are that they could deal with this eventuality, which is important, because it means Ukraine can continue to offer surrender as an option despite the risk.

[kyle04]

I think the BBC headline is at best speculative, at worst bloody irresponsible. Nobody knows yet what happened between the shadowy figure opening fire, clearly at AFU , and the aftermath. There are other instances of "surrendered" Russians attempting to throw a grenade for example, and Russia have form for false surrenders, something the 30th Airborne would have been well aware of. If there's any doubt they're not going to f*** about.

Russia of course will try and milk this and will face the inevitable backlash, they're certainly in no position to judge on what appears to be a live combat situation. This sends out a clear message, if you attempt deadly force whilst surrendering, we'll do the lot of you.

[badgerx16]

Makes a change from having your head smashed in with a sledgehammer by your own side.

[badgerx16]

Bayraktar of Turkey are working on a new 'drone' with Ukraine...

 

[buctootim]

 

[badgerx16]

9 hours ago, buctootim said:

 

Winter camo ?

[buctootim]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Winter camo ?

Blue sky of happiness 

[skintsaint]

6 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Winter camo ?

Working as intended!

[badgerx16]

More video of that new Bayraktar drone that is being developed with Ukraine.....

 

[buctootim]

 

[badgerx16]

8 hours ago, buctootim said:

 

And Luka stands furthest away from PutPut.

[farawaysaint]

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/world/putin-meets-with-pashinyan-after-armenian-premier-refuses-to-sign-csto-declaration/2746701
 

Putin now panicking after Armenia refused to sign a CSTO treaty after being miffed at a lack of Russian support over Azerbaijan. 

[spyinthesky]

8 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

And Luka stands furthest away from PutPut.

Reminds me of the time when Boris was ignored by other delegates at a G7 meeting

[badgerx16]

......

Edited 25 November, 2022 by badgerx16

[skintsaint]

Pretty devastating black outs right now in Ukraine.

[badgerx16]

 

[buctootim]

Kyiv is just beautiful in the winter. The best place for a pre Christmas break next year for those of you planning. 

 

 

[badgerx16]

On the left, Passchendaele in WW1. On the right Bakhmut, 2022.

[badgerx16]

Moved from the World Cup thread;

46 minutes ago, Spark said:

No they hadnt, Germany took forever to send anything. France did too iirc. Pledging and doing it are very different things. We were the first and sent the most in Europe (usa sent loads too) and Zelensky saw Johnson as his strongest ally.   Btw, i didn't take it off topic, the guy i replied to with his unnecessary dig at our country that had nothing to do with the world cup.  

Germany sent 1000 anti-tank and 500 anti-aircraft systems to Ukraine within a week of the invasion starting. On March 24, exactly a month after it started they sent 2000 more AT missiles, and committed to over 2000 more AA systems. By then they had also given permission for the Dutch and Estonians to release German manufactured heavy weapons to Ukraine. ( Remember, the German constitution had forbidden this before Putin forced them to re-assess things ).

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/26/germany-approves-delivery-of-rpgs-from-netherlands-to-ukraine

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/russia-ukraine-war-germany-to-send-2-000-more-anti-tank-weapons-to-ukraine-report-2839664

 

Edited 28 November, 2022 by badgerx16

[AlexLaw76]

6 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Moved from the World Cup thread;

Germany sent 1000 anti-tank and 500 anti-aircraft systems to Ukraine within a week of the invasion starting. On March 24, exactly a month after it started they sent 2000 more AT missiles, and committed to over 2000 more AA systems. By then they had also given permission for the Dutch and Estonians to release German manufactured heavy weapons to Ukraine. ( Remember, the German constitution had forbidden this before Putin forced them to re-assess things ).

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/26/germany-approves-delivery-of-rpgs-from-netherlands-to-ukraine

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/russia-ukraine-war-germany-to-send-2-000-more-anti-tank-weapons-to-ukraine-report-2839664

 

The same Germany that were not allowing aid flights over their country in the build up to the invasion?

The UK has been training Ukrainians since 2014, ffs

[badgerx16]

9 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

The same Germany that were not allowing aid flights over their country in the build up to the invasion?

The UK has been training Ukrainians since 2014, ffs

And the Canadians since 2015 - what is your point ?

Are the Russians still winning ?

Edited 28 November, 2022 by badgerx16

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

Are the Russians still winning ?

The same germany, right?

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

The same germany, right?

Yes, but that does not alter the facts about their arms supplies to the Ukrainians. The statement that they had not reacted to the SMO was incorrect.

Are the Russians still winning ?

Edited 28 November, 2022 by badgerx16

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

Yes, but that does not alter the facts about their arms supplies to the Ukrainians. The statement that they had not reacted to the SMO was incorrect.

Are the Russians still winning ?

They aint losing are they.  They still control/occupy large parts of another country, whilst placing bigger portions of it into darkness.  This is despite more of NATO's might being thrown into the mix.

 

[badgerx16]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

They aint losing are they.  They still control/occupy large parts of another country, whilst placing bigger portions of it into darkness.  This is despite more of NATO's might being thrown into the mix.

 

That is like saying the Germans after the battle of Kursk in 1943 were not losing the war on the Eastern Front.

They have lost at least a third of the territory they occupied at the point of their furthest advance, thay have lost the only regional capital they had managed to capture, Their Black Sea Fleet is cowering in safe harbour after being forced back by a country without any operational surface warships, their aircraft are falling out of the sky due to lack of maintenance and spares, and despite months of effort they still have not got anywhere near taking Bakhmut.

According to the MoD they have even resorted to removing the tactical nuclear warheads from some air launched missiles and replaced them with concrete, reducing these weapons to high velocity bricks.

[egg]

The Russians gains have been less than they'd have wanted, but if you're living in Ukraine right now, it's not going to feel like you're side are winning. 

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

That is like saying the Germans after the battle of Kursk in 1943 were not losing the war on the Eastern Front.

They have lost at least a third of the territory they occupied at the point of their furthest advance, thay have lost the only regional capital they had managed to capture, Their Black Sea Fleet is cowering in safe harbour after being forced back by a country without any operational surface warships, their aircraft are falling out of the sky due to lack of maintenance and spares, and despite months of effort they still have not got anywhere near taking Bakhmut.

According to the MoD they have even resorted to removing the tactical nuclear warheads from some air launched missiles and replaced them with concrete, reducing these weapons to high velocity bricks.

so they still occupy large parts of another country, they still have not run out of missles (weekly claim almost) and as Egg just said, Ukrainians face a very dark & cold xmas.

 

[badgerx16]

8 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

so they still occupy large parts of another country, they still have not run out of missles (weekly claim almost) and as Egg just said, Ukrainians face a very dark & cold xmas.

 

Oh come on, you spent weeks, ( months ? ), telling us that Ukraine was a lost cause.

Of course things are very difficult over there, but so far they have not folded, and civilian morale seems to be strong. Almost every instance in the last 120 years where attempts have been made to force a nation to surrender by terrorising the civil populace has failed, including the British and Americans completely flattening every area oif habitation in Germany withover 5000 inhabitants. ( By 1945 Bomber Harris had actually run out of targets for the RAF ).

The Ukraininas are putting an awful lot of effort into repairing the damaged infrastructure, and are getting huge amounts of supplies to assist in that area.

 

 

Edited 28 November, 2022 by badgerx16

[egg]

Agreed Alex. It's been said many times that the Russians are out of missiles but that's plainly untrue. The Chinese, Iranians, and others (India probably) will supply them what they need. If I were living Ukraine right now, I'd much prefer to be in Crimea than Kyiv or Kherson. 

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Agreed Alex. It's been said many times that the Russians are out of missiles but that's plainly untrue. The Chinese, Iranians, and others (India probably) will supply them what they need. If I were living Ukraine right now, I'd much prefer to be in Crimea than Kyiv or Kherson. 

At least you acknowledge Crimea is in Ukraine 🙂

[buctootim]

44 minutes ago, egg said:

Agreed Alex. It's been said many times that the Russians are out of missiles but that's plainly untrue. 

Actually it hasn't. What has been said is that Russia are running low on stocks of some missiles - which is exactly why they are using anti aircraft missiles for attacks on housing. IKts also why they are using nuclear forces cruise missiles with their warheads removed as decoys because so many of their scarce missiles are being shot down. 

[egg]

They have sufficient missiles to smash the hell out of Ukraine, and will continue to do so. I'm not sure it matters to the Ukrainian people what those missiles are and what they're not. 

[badgerx16]

14 minutes ago, egg said:

They have sufficient missiles to smash the hell out of Ukraine, and will continue to do so. I'm not sure it matters to the Ukrainian people what those missiles are and what they're not. 

So much for liberating them from Nazism.

[Jimmy_D]

3 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

They aint losing are they.  They still control/occupy large parts of another country, whilst placing bigger portions of it into darkness.  This is despite more of NATO's might being thrown into the mix.

 

For the low price of 85,000 troops, implementing a de facto state of total war, Russia now holds less territory than it did 7 months ago, including losing the only regional capital it had taken, and is able to cause temporary disruption when attempting to commit genocide via widespread terrorist attacks.

What exactly does it look like if things are going badly for Russia, in your mind?

[Saint in Paradise]

A pretend putin sits with pretend grieving moms to pretend he cares.

One thing is honest - no one has touched the tea or food

(notice how the stage-setters have screwed up - everyone appears to have drunk some tea ...but they've all apparently drunk exactly the same amount!)

(all the "moms" so far identified are significant figures in either the government, non-profits that happen to back government policy, or putin's political party)

This is the routine with "trusted" members of the public.
#2 was also a soldier who'd lost a leg when 'putin' did a hospital visit, and has been identified as one of putin's bodyguards.

 

 

[buctootim]

“Ukraine is a sovereign, independent nation state and it will choose its own path to peace and security. Nothing good came from that confrontation between us and the rest of the world. We certainly gained nothing from it"

2002 NATO-Russia Summit

 

Guess who didnt heed his own warning....

 

[egg]

@Jimmy_D We can all focus on Russia not having made massive gains, but if you're a Ukrainian without heat/electricity and facing shells and missiles, you're not going to think things are going well. Kherson. I don't pretend to be a war expert, but isn't it possible that Russia have retreated so they can smash the shit out of it, starve it of energy, then go back? 

[Weston Super Saint]

10 hours ago, egg said:

The Russians gains have been less than they'd have wanted, but if you're living in Ukraine right now, it's not going to feel like you're side are winning. 

Unlike those Russian soldiers in Ukraine right now who are probably having the time of their lives....