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whelk

By whelk,
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Referendum on Moscow to officially become territory of Wales  

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  1. 1. Referendum on Moscow to officially become territory of Wales

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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Millbrook Saint said:

Think Putin would probably be happy with carnage, be able to stoke up more hatred of Ukrainians and maybe even get more support for a general mobilisation.

As for the pipelines being destroyed, if it is him, he's daring the West, what do we do if we catch one of his subs or frogmen deploying more explosives, sink the sub, kill the frogmen, surely that would be ww3 starting?

One theory I read was that the energy industry in Russia are obviously not happy at losing millions every day so are putting pressure on to stop the war (or looking to undermine Putin) so blowing the pipelines is Putin's way of taking them out of the equation. He can blame the Yanks and get to carry on with his invasion.

I guess in theory it could be the US but it seems a bit of a risky, pointless escalation on their part, I doubt they will have any problem flogging gas to Europe for a while even with the pipes working.

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manji

manji

Posted
Posted
23 hours ago, Jimmy_D said:

New $1.1B aid package from the USA, including 18 HIMARS and 12 Titan anti-drone AA/EW systems.

That’s going to be a significant improvement in capability for Ukraine, the Titan system in particular is unbelievably cutting edge defence tech.

I’m guessing the timing of the announcement is to coincide with the sham referendums.

This post is a classic example of some who fancies themselves an expert by by reading headlines.

Actual story. The US have ordered 18 Himars to be built as Ukros only have few left. It will take ( at a minimum ) a year to make. War will be well over by then. It’s just a headline to fool the general public. That’s a problem with most of the pro Ukronazi posts. No one questions the narrative. 
I get a lot of my info from the daily briefings by US intelligence to the Pentagon. They are not for public consumption and are very reliable.

 

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whelk

whelk

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Posted
20 minutes ago, manji said:

This post is a classic example of some who fancies themselves an expert by by reading headlines.

Actual story. The US have ordered 18 Himars to be built as Ukros only have few left. It will take ( at a minimum ) a year to make. War will be well over by then. It’s just a headline to fool the general public. That’s a problem with most of the pro Ukronazi posts. No one questions the narrative. 
I get a lot of my info from the daily briefings by US intelligence to the Pentagon. They are not for public consumption and are very reliable.

 

I mostly work in the Kremlin so know as much as you

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Jimmy_D

Jimmy_D

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, manji said:

This post is a classic example of some who fancies themselves an expert by by reading headlines.

Actual story. The US have ordered 18 Himars to be built as Ukros only have few left. It will take ( at a minimum ) a year to make. War will be well over by then. It’s just a headline to fool the general public. That’s a problem with most of the pro Ukronazi posts. No one questions the narrative. 
I get a lot of my info from the daily briefings by US intelligence to the Pentagon. They are not for public consumption and are very reliable.

 

Congratulations, you grasped enough straws to make an entire straw-man argument.

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kyle04

kyle04

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, manji said:

This post is a classic example of some who fancies themselves an expert by by reading headlines.

Actual story. The US have ordered 18 Himars to be built as Ukros only have few left. It will take ( at a minimum ) a year to make. War will be well over by then. It’s just a headline to fool the general public. That’s a problem with most of the pro Ukronazi posts. No one questions the narrative. 
I get a lot of my info from the daily briefings by US intelligence to the Pentagon. They are not for public consumption and are very reliable.

 

How many HIMARS have AFU lost then, Mr ITK? Konashenkov reckons 44. Seems a little optimistic to me.

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manji

manji

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

How many HIMARS have AFU lost then, Mr ITK? Konashenkov reckons 44. Seems a little optimistic to me.

A lot. One of the points I’m trying to make is the real information is out there. The Ukranians produce a detailed military map everyday it’s fairly accurate. There are daily press briefings from the Russian MOD and the Pentagon briefings ( although not for the public) are easy enough to find.

Yet your average member of the public gets his info from headlines in The Mail, Guardian etc who dictate the narrative. I’ve been told The Financial Times is the most accurate because the public don’t read it and of course the financial brokers need detailed information to make their deals.

For a minute forget the conflict doesn’t it worry you how easy it is for the establishment to sway public opinion ? Brexit, Destroying Corbyn, allowing Johnson to get away with his shit for so long. Deciding his time has come and he is replaced by a useful idiot in Liz Truss.

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Jimmy_D

Jimmy_D

Posted
Posted
Just now, manji said:

A lot. One of the points I’m trying to make is the real information is out there. The Ukranians produce a detailed military map everyday it’s fairly accurate. There are daily press briefings from the Russian MOD and the Pentagon briefings ( although not for the public) are easy enough to find.

Yet your average member of the public gets his info from headlines in The Mail, Guardian etc who dictate the narrative. I’ve been told The Financial Times is the most accurate because the public don’t read it and of course the financial brokers need detailed information to make their deals.

For a minute forget the conflict doesn’t it worry you how easy it is for the establishment to sway public opinion ? Brexit, Destroying Corbyn, allowing Johnson to get away with his shit for so long. Deciding his time has come and he is replaced by a useful idiot in Liz Truss.

So, if Russia have destroyed so many HIMARS, where’s the verified evidence that Russia would no doubt be parading all over State TV to show that they’re nothing to be afraid of?

What’s the capability of Ukraine’s, that’s apparently not HIMARS, that’s allowing them still to continually hit numerous targets that require HIMARS accuracy and range to hit every day?

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, manji said:

Sad but could be anywhere. Could even be a road traffic accident in Serbia. Just shows how easily manipulated the public are.

Where the Police wear Ukrainian insignia ?

The video is from Mykolaiv, and shows the aftermath of a Russian missile attack that killed at least 3 people.

Edited by badgerx16
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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, manji said:

A lot. One of the points I’m trying to make is the real information is out there. The Ukranians produce a detailed military map everyday it’s fairly accurate. There are daily press briefings from the Russian MOD and the Pentagon briefings ( although not for the public) are easy enough to find.

Yet your average member of the public gets his info from headlines in The Mail, Guardian etc who dictate the narrative. I’ve been told The Financial Times is the most accurate because the public don’t read it and of course the financial brokers need detailed information to make their deals.

For a minute forget the conflict doesn’t it worry you how easy it is for the establishment to sway public opinion ? Brexit, Destroying Corbyn, allowing Johnson to get away with his shit for so long. Deciding his time has come and he is replaced by a useful idiot in Liz Truss.

Yes of course the quality of the reporting in tabloids is awful, driven by whatever gets clicks rather than quest for truth. Thats a whole different debate though. 

As you say there is real accurate information out there, you just need to look for it. But there is is very very little of Russia's actions towards Ukraine that has been worthy of favourable comment. Putin has screwed both Russia and Ukraine for his own enrichment initially and then for his own enjoyment. He ex wife called him a sadist, and I wouldnt argue with that.    

 

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kyle04

kyle04

Posted
Posted

Ukrainian losses so far. according to Russia MOD :

The numbers in brackets are some of the listings from oryxspioenkop, which are verified proven losses, although these are "significantly" lower than actual.

(Taken from Russia talks about "heavy losses" for Ukraine... and the Himars strike – Archyde)

307 aircraft [47]

155 helicopters [14]

2107 drones [36]

377 anti-aircraft missile systems

5147 tanks and other armored fighting vehicles [669]

855 multiple launcher [24]

3,439 pieces of field artillery and mortars [108]

5973 Special Military Vehicles

I'm not sure which listing is the most ridiculous. The fact that AFU are pushing Russia back in many areas, and preventing advances in others with all these losses, just how large was their army to begin with? 

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

Ukrainian losses so far. according to Russia MOD :

The numbers in brackets are some of the listings from oryxspioenkop, which are verified proven losses, although these are "significantly" lower than actual.

(Taken from Russia talks about "heavy losses" for Ukraine... and the Himars strike – Archyde)

307 aircraft [47]

155 helicopters [14]

2107 drones [36]

377 anti-aircraft missile systems

5147 tanks and other armored fighting vehicles [669]

855 multiple launcher [24]

3,439 pieces of field artillery and mortars [108]

5973 Special Military Vehicles

I'm not sure which listing is the most ridiculous. The fact that AFU are pushing Russia back in many areas, and preventing advances in others with all these losses, just how large was their army to begin with? 

https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/32040-fact-check-has-russia-destroyed-the-ukrainian-air-force

 

And this was published in March

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1296573/russia-ukraine-military-comparison/

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, manji said:

Sad but could be anywhere. Could even be a road traffic accident in Serbia. Just shows how easily manipulated the public are.

I don’t know how many hours of footage have been shown since Russia waged war on Ukraine but do you honestly believe that it is all fake? You talk about manipulation but you seem to be on a one mam mission from Team Putin to try and manipulate what we can all see are barbaric atrocities on innocent people as fake news.

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted (edited)

People queueng to help others leave the occupied area of Zaporizhzia Oblast were targeted by Russian artillery, at least 23 dead.

spacer.png

Still, I suppose some people will claim this is justified. ( Or just a car accident in Serbia ).

 

Edited by badgerx16
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kyle04

kyle04

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, farawaysaint said:

I’ve seen reports of anywhere between 2000 to 5000 troops. Of course Putin has issued his no retreat decree so they will be stuck, I hope they surrender to avoid a slaughter.

Looks like reality is dawning on the Russians :

 

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted (edited)

( Borrowed from Reddit- GRAPHIC )

----------------------

Ukraine Volunteer Transcripts of a phone call about this last night in the "Road of Death" (Lyman-Kreminna):

> 3:32pm, September 30th, San Francisco
1:32am, October 1st, Eastern Ukraine

> Moved north.

> its a slaughter

> cut them off west of kreminna. got to go.

> Stay safe. Lyman totally cut off?

> I think so, engadging thos going east.

> Ok, talk to you on the other side

> 10:19 pm, September 30th, San Francisco
> 8:19 am, October 1st, Eastern Ukraine

> Only a few mins here. Ran out of ammo and backed off south. Am a bit traumatized and need some sleep. I have no idea what is going on except we engaged a lot of elements headed to Kreminna. They have to be coming from Lyman and Zarichne. Right now we are in a safe area, it seems.

> I have never seen so many dead, soon to be dead, and wounded people in my life. People begging for help, but no way we can help them. We have little to help them with, a small medical kit each, no morphine, and no time to render any kind of useful aid. No idea if they will live or die. You just keep moving.

> One guy had obviously stepped on a mine by the side of the road. One leg was gone at mid-thigh, the other one was broken lower down and his foot was backward. He was trying to crawl somewhere on one good knee, trailing flowing blood out of a busted artery. Unless he got help quick, he was gone. He was talking calmly in Russian, saying over-and-over, “I will be home soon mother.”

> Christ. You and your guys ok?

> Yeah, just tired and mentally warped. At one point, we were running down the side of the road and —— slipped in a pool of blood running into the ditch from a still living Russian laying across the stripe (dead people don’t bleed very fast…only gravity feed), and he slid onto the shoulder and got up cussing with blood all over him. “get me some water, this fucking cunt probably has some kind of fulminating disease.” We almost fell over laughing.

> Are we talking hundreds? Were they on foot or vehicles? There’s a video on Twitter somewhere purportedly from west of Kreminna. Actually just audio, nonstop gunfire.

> Lots, just us, maybe 140 dead Russians. Like hunting squirrels in a pecan orchard. I have to think Lyman is under our control, but we have no info on that.

> We all got split-up into smaller groups, too much contact going on to stay together. here with about 20 guys, trying to make contact with someone to get ammo.

> Lot of people on foot, some running down the road, some trying to make their way through the forest to the south of the road. A half-a-dozen Russians came into the woods where we were in a hide to catch our breath and eat, they almost ran into us, but as usual, were moving fast and talking. We cut them down before they knew what was happening. They had little ammo, no med kits, very little food, and no info at all on them except for their phones and some family stuff. Trying to get intel off stiffs here is a very disappointing exercise.

> I can’t imagine.

> The road has been mined by artillery laydown, not all that accurate, but accurate enough to create bottlenecks, which creates a free-fire zone.

> When you engage a vehicle, then seem to unass it in-place and head for the fields or the forest.

> They probably see the same videos of vehicles going up catastrophically.

> I came away shaking like a leaf, not scared, just wired and sick of killing people. On the way back —— got in a stream and washed off, and vomited his guts out. I was looking at his eyes and he was seeing things way back home.

> How long ago did this happen? Is it still going on?

> It is still going on. We had to back out to try to get resupplied. Artillery is going over our heads. We have to try to sleep, get ammo, and get back up there.

> Take care of yourself, please.

> There is a Yook Lieutenant here who is trying to get some kind of info, but so far nada. We don’t know if we are to go to Kreminna or head (direction).

> Did you guys link up with the Ukrainian SOF?

> We did, but all got separated, we took a lot of fire at first and had to move away, and lost contact with the main group.

> I am ok, just too much jammed into a short time.

> It must have been just chaos.

> Yes.

> The key is to get ammo.

> It’s 8 am there. This went on all night?

> Yeah, but then it became just killing people. I wish I knew what was going on toward Lyman. I think we will move (direction) and connect with an armored group, get some kit, and head back to (direction) of Kreminna. That is the talk anyway. And, that is kinda what I thought would play out.

> Ok, I gotta try to sleep a bit, cause I think we will be moving before long.

> That’s a good idea. Rest up, we’ll talk later.

> Later

(remove the spaces): www .ukraine volunteer297689472.wordpress. com/2022/09/30/its-a-slaughter/

Edited by badgerx16
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kyle04

kyle04

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

And Putin is sending 300k poorly trained replacements into that.

Surely he is being told the truth about how things are going ?

Given the apparent combat ineffectiveness of these men, to say the least, and the poor provision of virtually everything a soldier would need on the battlefield, this is going to be another disaster for Russia. The sham referenda are totally irrelevant, AFU won't pause because 4 traitors shook hands with Putin in the Kremlin, nor will they motivate these Russians, who have been mostly taken from poorer neglected parts of the empire. There must be plenty of Russian military figures who know this, with one eye on their own skins when it all implodes.

 

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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Given the annexed territories are now supposedly Russian soil, how wil Putin react to the Ukrainians liberating Lyman ?

Maybe they could follow precedent - hold a quick referendum among their mates and vote to join Ukraine 

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, buctootim said:

Maybe they could follow precedent - hold a quick referendum among their mates and vote to join Ukraine 

Honestly, I’m surprised the Ukrainians haven’t announced something like that already. Get Zelenskiy and the four regional leaders to host a mock ceremony announcing the annexation back to Ukraine, holding up bits of scrap paper with, "referendum:  Yes - 94% and No - 17%" written in crayon.

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted

Russian Media Monitor have reported that since the liberation of Lyman occurred after the "annexation", Russian TV says this means that Ukraine has now declared war on Russia, and may now be planning to bomb Moscow & St Petersburg..

Russian state propagandists have a very warped view of reality.

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Russian Media Monitor have reported that since the liberation of Lyman occurred after the "annexation", Russian TV says this means that Ukraine has now declared war on Russia, and may now be planning to bomb Moscow & St Petersburg..

Russian state propagandists have a very warped view of reality.

I would not be in the least bit surprised if somebody has a plan to do just that. I think we can all guess who that somebody might be.

 

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kyle04

kyle04

Posted
Posted

AFU aren't stopping either, currently shelling several towns east of Lyman, as well as a recent tank offensive in the north-east Kherson region, reports that Ukraine have pushed 20km southwards already. Russian milbloggers currently tearing their hair out. I expect Putin , in his alternate reality world, expected AFU to withdraw all their forces realizing they're now trespassing on Russian soil.

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Millbrook Saint

Millbrook Saint

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, buctootim said:

Very good article by Alexie Navalny published in the Washington Post today "This is what a post-Putin Russia should look like".  I think if you follow this link it should take you behind the paywall. 

here.

 

 

Completely agree with him, there should be no chest thumping from the West, the people of Russia should be encouraged to build a democratic country themselves, we need to show them we're not a threat to them and we don't want to take over Russia.  Their eyes need to be opened to what their elites have done and stolen from them and how their lives can be so much better than it is now.  We cannot just abandon them to the next gangster who comes along, but at the same time we cannot be seen to be trying to put a puppet government in place.  It will be a tricky few years for the Russians after the war, they seem like a people who've had subjugation engrained in them for years and it's a hard thing to break free from.

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farawaysaint

farawaysaint

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

If they can push all the way down the West Bank of the Dnepr, that’s a huge chunk of Sovie… sorry, Russian troops they’re going to cut off from behind. It’s likely we’ll see more panicked retreats, like we saw from Lyman.

There is nowhere to retreat to across the Dnepr the bridges are out and not suitable to cross in military vehicles. Unless the Russians create a whole load of new temporary bridges their heavy artillery is trapped there. 

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