Russia

[farawaysaint]

16 minutes ago, egg said:

One irony is that using nukes would probably be the only way to bring Russia to its knees, but them having them means we can't do much more than we're doing now. Another irony is that if Ukraine still had them, this invasion would never have happened. 

Ukraine had nukes stationed on their territory but not the codes required to use them if I recall.

Given this is Soviet era technology I’m sure something could have been done about that but still worth remembering that Ukraine never actually had useable nukes.

[Lighthouse]

The attack does show an increasingly desperate urge to lash out and cause terror by any means possible, from Russia. There’s a whiff of the V1 and V2 attacks on London, striking at civilians targets well out of reach of his armies, for no strategic reason.

[badgerx16]

50 minutes ago, buctootim said:

What line of argument?

They are ethically wrong, cost money that would be better spent elsewhere, and independent of the US our arsenal is too insignificant to actually deter anybody mad enough to make a first strike against the UK.

[AlexLaw76]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

It is still UK sovereign territory. We were told at the time it was like Argentina invading the Isle of Wight. How many times have we had terrorist attacks in mainland Britain? Countries like Germany, Italy and Spain get along without them just fine don’t they?

For too long have been living under the protection blanket of the USA and to a lesser extent, UK and France.

Germany FFS!

[badgerx16]

16 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

For too long have been living under the protection blanket of the USA and to a lesser extent, UK and France.

Germany FFS!

You do understand why Germany has had it's particular position on how to maintain it's military capabilities for the last 75 years ?

[AlexLaw76]

7 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

You do understand why Germany has had it's particular position on how to maintain it's military capabilities for the last 75 years ?

That was a choice, certainly after 1990

[sadoldgit]

I keep hearing the word “deterrent” used but it isn’t is it? Putin is doing exactly whatever he wants to do because he knows we won’t fire first and he has convinced us he is mad enough to fire first. He has deployed chemical weapons in a NATO country and we have done nothing. War is waged in many different ways now. The MAD strategy is now archaic and is actually working against us because our adversaries know that we will never use our nuclear weapons first. What is mad is to spend an absolute fortune on weapons our enemies know we will never use. If they ever decide to fire first, the so called deterrent will have failed as there will be little left our end to fight for and possibly nothing left to fight with. If Russia develop a first strike capability that leaves us incapable of striking back we are screwed. It is 2022 and we have moved a long way forward since the MAD strategy of the 40’s and 50’s. Putin knows exactly what he is doing and is using our fear of a nuclear escalation against us.

[Lighthouse]

5 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

If they ever decide to fire first

5 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

If Russia develop a first strike capability that leaves us incapable of striking back

That’s two completely made up ‘what if’s which, which have basically zero chance of happening. They haven’t fired first, nobody ever has in the history of MAD, that’s the whole point. What you’re basically saying is, "if they decide to end the world as we know it…"

Russia doesn’t have that capability. They have nowhere near the finance nor the expertise to build such a weapon and if they did the Americans would be ten steps ahead of them. Russia can’t even win a conventional war against Ukraine, partly because they can’t even put functioning tyres on their military equipment.

[badgerx16]

15 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

That was a choice, certainly after 1990

Do you honestly think the Germans would want, let alone anybody else permit them to hold, nuclear weapons ? Britain has them because we were desperate to maintain the illusion of being a Global Power post WW2, as do the French.

[aintforever]

22 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

That was a choice, certainly after 1990

You have to be pretty damn thick if you don't understand why Germany hasn't got a massive army and a load of nukes.

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

You have to be pretty damn thick if you don't understand why Germany hasn't got a massive army and a load of nukes.

They are about to massively increase defence spending. Better tell them not to!

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

Do you honestly think the Germans would want, let alone anybody else permit them to hold, nuclear weapons ? Britain has them because we were desperate to maintain the illusion of being a Global Power post WW2, as do the French.

They could have had a significant military without having nuclear weapons. 
 

Instead, they chose not to.

[whelk]

15 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

They could have had a significant military without having nuclear weapons. 
 

Instead, they chose not to.

Guess you think Putin will swat aside the insignificant 300k NATO readiness forces? What take them 2 days , maybe a week?

[badgerx16]

40 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

They are about to massively increase defence spending. Better tell them not to!

 

39 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

They could have had a significant military without having nuclear weapons. 
 

Instead, they chose not to.

Democratic country in re-evaluating International relationships, and reviewing it's Constitutional status shocker. Strangely, Sweden have ditched their neutrality, Switzerland are reviewing theirs, and Japan have made changes to their Constitution to remove it's passive neutrality status. Is it about time for them as well ?

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

They are about to massively increase defence spending. Better tell them not to!

Nope. Not a Scooby what this one means, sorry.

59 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

They could have had a significant military without having nuclear weapons. 
 

Instead, they chose not to.

Germany had one or two things on their mind in the nineties. A couple of small issues which kinda took priority in a post-Soviet, relatively peaceful Europe.

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

They are about to massively increase defence spending. Better tell them not to!

Of course they are now, I expect the whole of Europe will be. I don’t think anyone expected Russia to start invading Europe like they have, until it was too late.

Edited 28 June, 2022 by aintforever

[AlexLaw76]

19 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Of course they are now, I expect the whole of Europe will be. I don’t think anyone expected Russia to start invading Europe like they have, until it was too late.

They started in 2014.  They were preparing for it for years. 

[AlexLaw76]

30 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Nope. Not a Scooby what this one means, sorry.

Germany had one or two things on their mind in the nineties. A couple of small issues which kinda took priority in a post-Soviet, relatively peaceful Europe.

what about the 2000s or the 2010s?

[badgerx16]

9 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

They started in 2014.  They were preparing for it for years. 

If they've been preparing for 7 years they should be making a better fist of it.

[Jimmy_D]

10 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

They started in 2014.  They were preparing for it for years. 

Looks like they didn’t prepare long enough.

[Jimmy_D]

13 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

what about the 2000s or the 2010s?

They had a strategy that they had no reason to change. Until they were given a reason.

[aintforever]

31 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

They started in 2014.  They were preparing for it for years. 

Yeah, we clearly knew this was going to happen, that why the Tories have spent the last decade cutting our armed forces.

[badgerx16]

The Kremlin has warned Ukraine that any attempt to retake Crimea would be a 'declaration of war'. Presumably they are currently engaged in a tea dance.

[Jimmy_D]

Turkey now supporting Finland and Sweden’s bids to join NATO, doesn’t look like there are are more real hurdles to stop that happening now.

[kyle04]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

The Kremlin has warned Ukraine that any attempt to retake Crimea would be a 'declaration of war'. Presumably they are currently engaged in a tea dance.

They'll say the same if/when the Donbas is under their control, together with Kherson -> Mariupol land bridge no doubt.  Ukraine have next to no chance of re-taking Crimea anytime soon though, but not a bad thing to keep Russia a little worried about it.

[Jimmy_D]

4 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

The Kremlin has warned Ukraine that any attempt to retake Crimea would be a 'declaration of war'. Presumably they are currently engaged in a tea dance.

It seems telling that Russia’s rhetoric is now worried about losing territory they’ve occupied since 2014.

Kherson is looking more and more likely to be liberated soon, which might explain Russia being worried about Crimea. If I’m not mistaken, that would give Ukraine control of Crimea’s water supply.

[kyle04]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

It seems telling that Russia’s rhetoric is now worried about losing territory they’ve occupied since 2014.

Kherson is looking more and more likely to be liberated soon, which might explain Russia being worried about Crimea. If I’m not mistaken, that would give Ukraine control of Crimea’s water supply.

It would, there's a large dam on the northern Crimean border area, and about 3 or 4 other bridges. The was some controversy as to why these bridges weren't blown at the beginning of the invasion, speculation of a rat or two in the AFU military, it would have made Russia's progress into southern Ukraine a lot more difficult.

[skintsaint]

16 hours ago, kyle04 said:

 

Whats weird is that missile is apparently an anti-ship missile. They running out of their usual Kalibr missiles?

Edited 29 June, 2022 by skintsaint

[Weston Super Saint]

16 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

I keep hearing the word “deterrent” used but it isn’t is it? Putin is doing exactly whatever he wants to do because he knows we won’t fire first and he has convinced us he is mad enough to fire first. 

Jesus wept.

The 'detterent' is against the use of nuclear weapons. It's not a deterrent against other forms of warfare, in the same way that it isn't a detterent against kids stealing sweets from the local shop.

As a detterent against the use of nuclear weapons in anger, it's been the most effective strategy since 1945.  So yes, it is.

[badgerx16]

Boris says Putin "would not have attacked if he was a woman". What this overlooks is that Putin would not be President of Russia if "he" was a woman.

[Lighthouse]

32 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Boris says Putin "would not have attacked if he was a woman". What this overlooks is that Putin would not be President of Russia if "he" was a woman.

Yeah, that was just plain weird. I think this is Boris attempting wokeness to try and take some of the heat off but I don’t think he’s pulled it off too well.

[cloggy saint]

Is Johnson saying that Putin wouldn't have attacked if Putin was a woman or if Johnson was a woman?

[kyle04]

1 minute ago, cloggy saint said:

Is Johnson saying that Putin wouldn't have attacked if Putin was a woman or if Johnson was a woman?

Or indeed if Zalenski was a woman...?

[buctootim]

9 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

Or indeed if Zalenski was a woman...?

Maybe its not too late for him to have a sex change and end this war 

[buctootim]

 

Couple of interesting posts from the apparently / supposedly retired FSB Colonel. 

 

"Yesterday was rich in events, but one event could make this day truly significant. Last night, a suicide attempt by former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev was thwarted. While cleaning Dmitry Medvedev's office, a woman from the servants accidentally drew attention to several sheets of paper written on the table and on the floor, apparently she was interested in the contents. So, having discovered five variants of a suicide note written in Dmitry Anatolyevich's large, sweeping handwriting, the servant immediately informed the guards. The guards found Dmitry Medvedev drunk and with a pistol in his right hand. After some persuasion, Medvedev handed over the pistol, which, as it turned out, was loaded with live ammunition. Under Medvedev, another note was discovered, apparently the sixth final version. Everything was immediately reported to Russian President Vladimir Putin. Putin ordered not to give Medvedev any more alcohol and to control every step until a special decision. The incident was decided not to be made public. In his notes, Dmitry Medvedev wrote that he could not endure humiliation and emotional distress, felt like a worthless person, incapable of anything, hated the war and those who unleashed it, and blamed Russian President Vladimir Putin, Yuri Kovalchuk, Nikolai Patrushev, Alexander Bortnikov for his death and Igor Sechin. In one version of the note, Medvedev writes that he is tired of being a puppet. Almost everything written is chaotic and emotional and apparently was written while intoxicated. But if Medvedev's suicide had succeeded, how would the Russian leadership get out with explanations of what happened?"

 

And this. War is coming?  

Last week Russian President Vladimir Putin held talks with Alexander Lukashenko. The negotiations were not as smooth as it might seem in the end. So there was a moment when Vladimir Putin, having interrupted communication with Lukashenka, left the negotiations and, leaving the room, loudly said to those waiting: "Explain to this stupid gang ... well, that he will not leave here." According to eyewitnesses, the threat was uttered so convincingly and loudly that it was heard by the people waiting for the end of the negotiations, of which there were about a dozen, and the guards, and Lukashenka himself. After a relatively short break, Lukashenka himself began to tearfully ask for an opportunity to continue communicating with Putin and at the same time looked very depressed. As a result, he made a promise to Putin that the armed forces of the Republic of Belarus would take part in a special military operation in the quantity and quality that the President of Russia wished. Lukashenka agrees to the union of the three Slavic peoples and unification into one state, as quickly and in such a format as the Russian president sees it. Well, and most importantly, Lukashenka is ready to provide an opportunity to use the territory of the Republic of Belarus for provocations against Lithuania. Putin plans not only to draw Belarus into a war with Ukraine, but also to provoke a military conflict between the Republic of Belarus and Lithuania. To prepare provocations, several groups of "specialists" from the Main Directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation have already moved to the territory of the Republic of Belarus. Their goal is to prepare explosions of military and civilian infrastructure in the city of Lida and several cities bordering Lithuania. In case of explosions on civilian objects, there should be casualties among the civilian population. Russia, as a member of the CSTO and the fraternal people, will have to respond immediately, and whether it will be a retaliatory strike or an ultimatum is now being decided, but the intentions are quite serious.

Lithuania is included in the list of countries that Vladimir Putin organically cannot stand, and occupies leading positions in this list. Putin sincerely believes that Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia provoked the collapse of the entire union with their secession from the USSR. We also recall that, by order and under the direct control of Russian President Vladimir Putin, in 2017, an assassination attempt was being prepared on the life of Lithuanian President Dalia Grybauskaite during her visit to the city of Kharkov, which, according to the President of Russia, was supposed to become a trigger for an increase in escalation and, as a result, a hybrid "special operation against the Baltic republics.

[kyle04]

Russia may be turning to Mr Creosote :

https://www.newsweek.com/photo-obese-russian-general-pavel-putins-army-prompts-speculation-1719470

Romour has it that this guy puts away 5 meals a day, each washed down with a litre of vodka. Looking at him it's difficult no to believe it.

[Weston Super Saint]

18 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

Russia may be turning to Mr Creosote :

https://www.newsweek.com/photo-obese-russian-general-pavel-putins-army-prompts-speculation-1719470

Romour has it that this guy puts away 5 meals a day, each washed down with a litre of vodka. Looking at him it's difficult no to believe it.

Lol

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Lol

Is that a platoon in your fatigues, or are you just pleased to be on the front line? 🙂

[whelk]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Lol

Fat fucker

[spyinthesky]

Sure he's not American with a waistband like that?

[Jonnyboy]

19 hours ago, Jimmy_D said:

It seems telling that Russia’s rhetoric is now worried about losing territory they’ve occupied since 2014.

Kherson is looking more and more likely to be liberated soon, which might explain Russia being worried about Crimea. If I’m not mistaken, that would give Ukraine control of Crimea’s water supply.

I like how Ukraine cuts off water supplies to the people in its "own country." How patriotic! 

[Jonnyboy]

https://youtu.be/-F9h3zp8ru8

[badgerx16]

8 minutes ago, Jonnyboy said:

I like how Ukraine cuts off water supplies to the people in its "own country." How patriotic! 

So the alternative is what ? Not to bother over trying to regain control of the territory that was illegally occupied in 2014 ?

[badgerx16]

16 minutes ago, Jonnyboy said:

https://youtu.be/-F9h3zp8ru8

Were you surprised by what he says ?

[Jimmy_D]

46 minutes ago, Jonnyboy said:

I like how Ukraine cuts off water supplies to the people in its "own country." How patriotic! 

It's not so much that Ukraine would cut off the water supply, but more that denying Russia's control of it would weaken Russia's negotiating position and ability to claim any sort of victory.

Still, never mind all the war crimes that Russia have actually committed, and that's just counting yesterday... just stay quiet about them and pretend they're not happening eh?

The instant Ukraine might potentially have the option of using something as leverage against Russia in the future though... well obviously we need to be up in arms about that eh?

[whelk]

55 minutes ago, Jonnyboy said:

I like how Ukraine cuts off water supplies to the people in its "own country." How patriotic! 

Isn’t it about time you grew up?

[Sheaf Saint]

1 hour ago, Jimmy_D said:

Still, never mind all the war crimes that Russia have actually committed

Not according to my Putin-worshipping, Russian sister-in-law. She insists they only strike military targets and that the 'alleged' missile attack on the shopping centre is fake news.

Never mind that the Russian MOD has admitted it, and that the KH-22 is only used by Russia. Those are just inconvenient facts.

Edited 29 June, 2022 by Sheaf Saint

[cloggy saint]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

Isn’t it about time you grew up?

Jonnyman doesn't have the same ring to it.

[buctootim]

12 minutes ago, cloggy saint said:

Jonnyman doesn't have the same ring to it.

Sounds like a condom delivery service 

[farawaysaint]

15 hours ago, Jonnyboy said:

I like how Ukraine cuts off water supplies to the people in its "own country." How patriotic! 

https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/14-million-people-without-running-water-across-war-affected-eastern-ukraine
 

Hooray for the liberators but god forbid it happens to Crimea where they have holiday homes.