badgerx16 Posted 14 May, 2022 Share Posted 14 May, 2022 13 minutes ago, kyle04 said: Overkill against a T72, they do the job for you almost. Turret tossing, a demonstration sport at the next Olympics ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 14 May, 2022 Share Posted 14 May, 2022 7 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: Turret tossing, a demonstration sport at the next Olympics ? Doubt it. Russia are b-anned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted 14 May, 2022 Share Posted 14 May, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 14 May, 2022 Share Posted 14 May, 2022 8 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said: Well... they've tried at least. It's not completely over Zelensky's head as they've come up with proposals and then taken them to Zelensky. He unsurprisingly turned them down. Macron is still a bit of a bellend for trying to surrender on someone else's behalf. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 14 May, 2022 Share Posted 14 May, 2022 12 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said: Macron is still a bit of a bellend for trying to surrender on someone else's behalf. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 14 May, 2022 Share Posted 14 May, 2022 https://eurasiantimes.com/su-34-fighter-jet-shockingly-found-with-gps-taped-to-dashboard/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle04 Posted 14 May, 2022 Share Posted 14 May, 2022 40 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said: Well... they've tried at least. It's not completely over Zelensky's head as they've come up with proposals and then taken them to Zelensky. He unsurprisingly turned them down. Macron is still a bit of a bellend for trying to surrender on someone else's behalf. As I've echoed previously, the French don't change do they? Macron really is a preening sniveling wanker, even by French standards. Remember France is one of only two European country to have nukes, the western tip of the NATO nuclear deterrent. Zalensky should have sent him back to Moscow with Ukraines terms of the Russian surrender! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 14 May, 2022 Share Posted 14 May, 2022 Typical, the one year we actually have a decent Eurovision entry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 14 May, 2022 Share Posted 14 May, 2022 35 minutes ago, Lighthouse said: Typical, the one year we actually have a decent Eurovision entry. To be fair the same reasons that Ukraine has done well have probably helped the UK somewhat this year... Second to Ukraine is the best I'd have wanted us to do this year I think (and the best we could have done!) Would have felt awkward almost if we'd pushed Ukraine into second place? 😅 Anything that annoys Putin and will be noticed by the Russian public is a win for all of us in my book. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 14 May, 2022 Share Posted 14 May, 2022 9 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said: Anything that annoys Putin and will be noticed by the Russian public is a win for all of us in my book. Russian TV is just Lavrov in front of a camera saying; ”12 points from Greece goes to… Russia!” ”12 points from Italy goes to… Russia!” ”30 points from Ukraine goes to… Russia!” 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 14 May, 2022 Share Posted 14 May, 2022 Has Eurovision ever been held in a war zone ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 14 May, 2022 Share Posted 14 May, 2022 5 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: Has Eurovision ever been held in a war zone ? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurovision_Song_Contest_1998 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 I'm no expert, but I reckon they probably should have used the bridge next to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 11 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said: How dare they try and stop a war. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 35 minutes ago, aintforever said: How dare they try and stop a war. The problem is they are aren't just doing that. It should not be upto leaders of other countries to agree to hand over Ukrainian land to an aggressor like Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 5 hours ago, buctootim said: I'm no expert, but I reckon they probably should have used the bridge next to them. They're not tanks. They're 'Elite Russian navy submarines' with snorkel attachment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 11 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said: https://eurasiantimes.com/su-34-fighter-jet-shockingly-found-with-gps-taped-to-dashboard/ Finally! An explanation as to why they have managed to bomb over 100 hospitals.... Quote they will not be able to navigate their precision-guided munitions toward Ukrainian military targets accurately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 51 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: The problem is they are aren't just doing that. It should not be upto leaders of other countries to agree to hand over Ukrainian land to an aggressor like Russia. The leader of France can't hand over Ukrainian land to anyone, he's just trying to get the two countries to stop fighting. The US were also in talks with Russia with the same aim. The more talking the better even if it is in vain. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, aintforever said: The leader of France can't hand over Ukrainian land to anyone, he's just trying to get the two countries to stop fighting. The US were also in talks with Russia with the same aim. The more talking the better even if it is in vain. Talks aren't going to ultimately this as long as Putin is in power as he'd be back in months or years. The Russians can't be trusted to honour any peace deal. This only ends when Putin leaves power and isn't replaced by a follower of his ideas. It may take a coup to do it or the West supporting Ukraine long enough for them to push the Russians out in a war of attrition. Edited 15 May, 2022 by Matthew Le God 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 3 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: Talks aren't going to ultimately this as long as Putin is in power as he'd be back in months or years. The Russians can't be trusted to honor any peace deal. This only ends when Putin leaves power and isn't replaced by a follower of his ideas. It may take a coup to do it or the West supporting Ukraine long enough forthem to push thr Russians out in a war of attrition. Sooner or later it will end with the two countries talking and agreeing some sort of cease-fire. Ukraine have every right to fight for all their land including the Crimea but it may come to a point where they think it's better to come to an agreement to avoid years of bloodshed. Whatever happens, having leaders from around the world talking to Putin and trying to find a solution has to be a positive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 (edited) Sooner or later it will end with the two countries talking and agreeing some sort of cease-fire. Ukraine have every right to fight for all their land including the Crimea but it may come to a point where they think it's better to come to an agreement to avoid years of bloodshed. Whatever happens, having leaders from around the world talking to Putin and trying to find a solution has to be a positive because a war of attrition v Russia is not a great prospect. Edited 15 May, 2022 by aintforever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 In talking to Macron and Scholz,Putin might actually find out how the war is going: Putin - "That is all well and good but we will never return Cherniyiv, it is now Russian" Macron - " You don't have Cherniyiv" Putin - "Oh !", turns aside to an aide "Get Sergei Shoigu here as soon as I put the phone down". He then returns to the call "OK, but Odessa will never be returned, we are having a referendum and it will vote to stay Russian". Macron - "Actually you haven't got beyond Kherson". Putin again turns to his aide " And find the commander of the Baltic Fleet". Putin to Macron - "Well tell Zelensky that if his army won't concede the route through to Transnistra we will bombard the shit out them with our missile cruiser Moskva". Macron - "Well, Vladimir, there may be a slight problem with that.....," 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 58 minutes ago, aintforever said: Sooner or later it will end with the two countries talking and agreeing some sort of cease-fire. Ukraine have every right to fight for all their land including the Crimea but it may come to a point where they think it's better to come to an agreement to avoid years of bloodshed. Whatever happens, having leaders from around the world talking to Putin and trying to find a solution has to be a positive because a war of attrition v Russia is not a great prospect. What, so Russia can build a nice starting base to launch their next wave of bloodshed in a few years? Russia is the one who will suffer from attrition, NATO can easily out-supply Ukraine with far superior weapons. Plus, Ukraine can (and needs to) go all in on this hand, they don’t have any other borders to worry about and protect. Russia now has a 1,300km border with Finland to worry about on top of B-52s sneaking over Alaska, whatever China are up to and everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 7 minutes ago, Lighthouse said: What, so Russia can build a nice starting base to launch their next wave of bloodshed in a few years? Russia is the one who will suffer from attrition, NATO can easily out-supply Ukraine with far superior weapons. Plus, Ukraine can (and needs to) go all in on this hand, they don’t have any other borders to worry about and protect. Russia now has a 1,300km border with Finland to worry about on top of B-52s sneaking over Alaska, whatever China are up to and everything else. True, It will be great for NATO to weaken Russia and a brilliant for our arms industry to showcase their kit but a lengthy war of attrition would be devastating for the people of Ukraine. The Ukraine forces are doing well but I’m not sure they will be able to push the Russians all the way back and out of Crimea. Plus Putin seems to be the type of guy who would rather drop a nuke on Kiev than lose the war. Hopefully Ukraine can do enough damage to trigger the Russians to get rid of Putin, that’s the best they can hope for IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 13 minutes ago, aintforever said: True, It will be great for NATO to weaken Russia and a brilliant for our arms industry to showcase their kit but a lengthy war of attrition would be devastating for the people of Ukraine. The Ukraine forces are doing well but I’m not sure they will be able to push the Russians all the way back and out of Crimea. Plus Putin seems to be the type of guy who would rather drop a nuke on Kiev than lose the war. Hopefully Ukraine can do enough damage to trigger the Russians to get rid of Putin, that’s the best they can hope for IMO. Ukraine don't have to "push the Russians out", only damage them so badly that, along with sanctions, they can be persuaded that withdrawal is an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 1 minute ago, badgerx16 said: Ukraine don't have to "push the Russians out", only damage them so badly that, along with sanctions, they can be persuaded that withdrawal is an option. Or just batter them to the point there is an open revolt against the government by the military. The more Russia has to scrape together conscripts and mercenaries, arming them with increasingly obsolete equipment, the worse the casualties will become. aint - Putin might want to launch a nuke but he’d need the military to do it. At that point he is effectively telling them we have half an hour until I turn all of our families into radio-active ash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle04 Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 I think at the moment both sides "terms" for a settlement would be completely incompatible with each other. Russia want the Donbas and the southern land corridor as well as continued control of Crimea, which is totally unacceptable to Ukraine, who want all their land back. There's no middle ground here it seems. Add in the behaviour of the Russian army in this war which has fuelled a burning hatred that will last for generations. As for getting rid of Putin, hopefully God may intervene soon, but his replacement could be another Soviet nutter. I think if Ukraine keep going the Russian army could collapse completely, there's numerous stories of Russian soldiers refusing orders or turning on their commanders, and Putin has openly criticised his soldiers recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 44 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: Ukraine don't have to "push the Russians out", only damage them so badly that, along with sanctions, they can be persuaded that withdrawal is an option. True, but Putin values the lives of his troops so little I can't see that happening for a long, long while. If Ukraine want to send their young men and women into the meat grinder for years to come that is up to them but I can see there being some sort of agreement reached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 1 hour ago, aintforever said: True, but Putin values the lives of his troops so little I can't see that happening for a long, long while. If Ukraine want to send their young men and women into the meat grinder for years to come that is up to them but I can see there being some sort of agreement reached. Russia’s trouble there is that, between Russia breaking their agreement not to invade if Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons, and Russia’s constant misinformation before and during this war, Russia’s word in any agreement is essentially worthless. Giving up anything to restore peace, and hoping Russia will be satisfied with it, is essentially just handing something over to Russia for nothing. At this point Russia don’t have Odessa, and it’s almost guaranteed they would break any agreement in the future if they thought they could take it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 28 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said: At this point Russia don’t have Odessa, and it’s almost guaranteed they would break any agreement in the future if they thought they could take it. True, but that is also true regardless of where the border between the two countries ends up after this conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, aintforever said: True, but Putin values the lives of his troops so little I can't see that happening for a long, long while. If Ukraine want to send their young men and women into the meat grinder for years to come that is up to them but I can see there being some sort of agreement reached. There was a good interview on Sky with the Head of Ukrainian Military intelligence. He basically said they could already see the beginnings of Ukrainian victory, that Russia would start to be in retreat by late August and that the fighting will be over Christmas. Once a tipping point is reached you could see a rapid collpase. If Russia didnt have nukes we could potentially be looking at a situation where Ukraine was annexing parts of Russia. Unless the west loses its nerve, withdraws the weapons supply and forces Ukraine to settle for a bad deal (lead by Scholz and Macron) I reckon Ukraine will take back Donbass and settle for some kind of international deal on access through Azov Sea. Edited 15 May, 2022 by buctootim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 27 minutes ago, aintforever said: True, but that is also true regardless of where the border between the two countries ends up after this conflict. Any agreement that Russia would accept would likely include Ukraine disarming, a pledge for Ukraine to not join NATO, and if Macron got his way, recognition of at the very least, Crimea as Russian, as well as the territory they’ve already taken. All Ukraine would get is Russia stopping their attack now and agreeing to peace… until Russia comes up with a story about Ukraine breaking the agreement, or carrying out some other atrocity, and Russia being forced to “ensure their security.” It’s likely that Ukraine’s security and peace can be best secured by defeating Russia militarily, such that Russia lose the capability of invading effectively and retreat unilaterally. That then leaves Ukraine free to increase their military capability and enter security agreements to make any future invasion cost Russia far too much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 45 minutes ago, aintforever said: True, but that is also true regardless of where the border between the two countries ends up after this conflict. Well yes, that’s the point. Ukraine has nothing to gain by ceding any territory to Russia, so why agree to any proposed Russian borders? There is no guarantee of any future peace, quite the opposite and any civilians who fall under this new area of Russian rule will likely suffer a desperate economic black hole, poverty, rape and a total violation of freedom. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 15 May, 2022 Author Share Posted 15 May, 2022 Give Putin fck all. Unbelievable the appeasers who think this cunt can be trusted and want to negotiate. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 Jonnyboy will be along soon to explain how Finland and Sweden joining NATO is further evidence of western aggressive expansionism. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 1 hour ago, whelk said: Give Putin fck all. Unbelievable the appeasers who think this cunt can be trusted and want to negotiate. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 1 hour ago, Lighthouse said: Well yes, that’s the point. Ukraine has nothing to gain by ceding any territory to Russia Except for potentially thousand less dead people and blown up buildings. Obviously if they are kicking Russia’s ass and think taking back the whole lot is achievable they won’t want to settle for anything less, it’s call only they can make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle04 Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 17 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: Jonnyboy will be along soon to explain how Finland and Sweden joining NATO is further evidence of western aggressive expansionism. More than likely a cut and paste link to an article written by a disgruntled anti-western "historian" trying to plug another tedious book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 14 minutes ago, aintforever said: Except for potentially thousand less dead people and blown up buildings. Obviously if they are kicking Russia’s ass and think taking back the whole lot is achievable they won’t want to settle for anything less, it’s call only they can make. For a few years, until they launch their next assault, and as I’ve already said the territory they do occupy will be anything but safe for the Ukrainians who live there. Who knows how many women will be rated and undesirables executed. Just because you aren’t fighting, doesn’t mean you’re safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 21 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: Exactly! Chamberlain went to meet Hitler knowing that he could not be trusted,but also that Britain was in no fit state to try to stand up to him, so he bought some time and when he returned to the UK immediately ordered a huge increase in defence spending. At the time of Munich the RAF had less than 1 squadron of Spitfires operational. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2013/09/neville-chamberlain-was-right-to-cede-czechoslovakia-to-adolf-hitler-seventy-five-years-ago-the-british-prime-signed-the-munich-pact.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 32 minutes ago, Lighthouse said: For a few years, until they launch their next assault, and as I’ve already said the territory they do occupy will be anything but safe for the Ukrainians who live there. Who knows how many women will be rated and undesirables executed. Just because you aren’t fighting, doesn’t mean you’re safe. I don’t disagree, wether they settle for anything obviously depends on the situation on the ground and how costly re-taking the whole country will be, if it is achievable at all. Taking territory is a lot harder than defending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 1 hour ago, aintforever said: Except for potentially thousand less dead people and blown up buildings. Obviously if they are kicking Russia’s ass and think taking back the whole lot is achievable they won’t want to settle for anything less, it’s call only they can make. Do you now disagree with your earlier statement that Macron was right to negotiate on their behalf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 15 May, 2022 Author Share Posted 15 May, 2022 9 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said: Do you now disagree with your earlier statement that Macron was right to negotiate on their behalf? I know you aren’t asking me but Macron is such a vain politician. Shame France didn’t have a credible alternative to defeat him as still far preferable to Le Pen. You just know he thinks he has a special relationship with Putin but just being played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 19 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said: Do you now disagree with your earlier statement that Macron was right to negotiate on their behalf? No, the more talking the better. Only Ukraine can decide what’s best for them, if a leader from another country can help find a solution they agree with then great. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 15 May, 2022 Author Share Posted 15 May, 2022 8 minutes ago, aintforever said: No, the more talking the better. Only Ukraine can decide what’s best for them, if a leader from another country can help find a solution they agree with then great. So when Ukrainians say no, you will follow the narrative that Putin wanted peace but Ukraine weren’t willing to negotiate. Exactly what he would like 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 2 minutes ago, whelk said: So when Ukrainians say no, you will follow the narrative that Putin wanted peace but Ukraine weren’t willing to negotiate. Exactly what he would like No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, aintforever said: No, the more talking the better. Only Ukraine can decide what’s best for them, if a leader from another country can help find a solution they agree with then great. If only Ukraine can decide what's best for them, surely the rest of the 'talking' is just vanity projects from people looking to make headlines? Didn't this happen at the same time as Zelensky said he would talk, but to Putin personally? Edited 15 May, 2022 by Weston Super Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle04 Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 I remember after the start of the conflict Zalensky publicly offered to meet Putin, saying something like "sit down with me, what is it you want?". He was ignored as Putin thought he was going to win easily. Move on a few weeks and both parties now have no room for manoeuvre, despite Macrons attempts to portray himself as a later day Kissinger (after sending a significant amount of lethal aid to kill Russians). The only chance for any kind of peace is if Russia withdraw all it's forces from Ukraine and cease aerial bombardments from Russia. Even then Ukraine won't have gained anything it didn't already have on Feb 23rd, and the country is shattered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said: If only Ukraine can decide what's best for them, surely the rest of the 'talking' is just vanity projects from people looking to make headlines? Didn't this happen at the same time as Zelensky said he would talk, but to Putin personally? Plenty of other countries have been talking to Putin, the US were talking to Russia in the last couple of days. Edited 15 May, 2022 by aintforever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 15 May, 2022 Share Posted 15 May, 2022 1 minute ago, aintforever said: Plenty of other countries have been talking to Putin, the US were talking to Russia in the last couple of days. Did they decide what land Ukraine should give up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now