Russia

[skintsaint]

38 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

Reports now that the Moskova, Russia's flagship, has sunk after being struck by Ukrainian manufactured Neptune missiles.

Assuming that's accurate, Russia just lost its flagship in a war as the aggressor against a country that doesn't have an active navy.

Russia saying it was faulty ammo blast on the ship. They would rather look incompetent than admitting Ukraine blew it out the water.

Waiting for them next to say its a special operation to turn it into a submarine. 

[Jimmy_D]

2 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Russia saying it was faulty ammo blast on the ship. They would rather look incompetent than admitting Ukraine blew it out the water.

Waiting for them next to say its a special operation to turn it into a submarine. 

Indeed.

Either way, looks like the biggest naval threat Russia had in the area isn't a threat any more.

[skintsaint]

 

[buctootim]

Just been reading the comments on RIA Novosti - one of the Kremlin mouthpieces. They aren't so cocky now. Seems like the first dawning of reality that they might be in shit. 

Couple of people are saying we (Brits) did it. 

 

[Jimmy_D]

1 minute ago, buctootim said:

Just been reading the comments on RIA Novosti - one of the Kremlin mouthpieces. They aren't so cocky now. Seems like the first dawning of reality that they might be in shit. 

Couple of people are saying we (Brits) did it. 

 

I guess it was a Royal Navy submarine that sunk the last cruiser before this one, in The Falklands War.

I guess it's possible if it was almost certain that it couldn't be traced back to the Royal Navy, but it'd be a huge risk in terms of escalation. Seems highly unlikely.

[skintsaint]

13 minutes ago, buctootim said:

reading the comments on RIA Novosti

So many seem to believe there were no casualties. 

Edited 14 April, 2022 by skintsaint

[buctootim]

5 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

I guess it was a Royal Navy submarine that sunk the last cruiser before this one, in The Falklands War.

I guess it's possible if it was almost certain that it couldn't be traced back to the Royal Navy, but it'd be a huge risk in terms of escalation. Seems highly unlikely.

Not saying its true. Logic is that ship is sunk shortly after we just agreed to supply harpoon anti ship missiles and there wouldnt have been enough time yet to train Ukrainians 

[buctootim]

2 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

So many seem to believe there were no casualties. 

Some do - its bizarre. The ship was hit by two missiles, there was a fire, thwe ammunition exploded,  the sea was too rough to evacuate properly and it sank. Obvs no-one hurt....  

Edited 14 April, 2022 by buctootim

[skintsaint]

9 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Not saying its true. Logic is that ship is sunk shortly after we just agreed to supply harpoon anti ship missiles and there wouldnt have been enough time yet to train Ukrainians 

Maybe they created an easy to use instructions like this one :

[Jimmy_D]

40 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Not saying its true. Logic is that ship is sunk shortly after we just agreed to supply harpoon anti ship missiles and there wouldnt have been enough time yet to train Ukrainians 

That sounds more possible, the level of continued Ukrainian success so far in this war does suggest some sort of presence of Western Special Forces with plausible deniability, as well as significant Russian underperformance.

Would be almost impossible to know for sure though, Ukraine does have the capability apparently, with Neptune missiles.

Another possibility could be Russian sabotage, which if it was intended to scuttle the ship but not kill, could possibly tally up with Russian reports of a fire of unknown origin and no casualties, as they may have had far more of a warning to abandon ship. Any non-deliberate cause for a fire would be very unlikely to sink the ship, unless there were massive oversights on firefighting systems.

Whichever it was, ALL of them were highly unlikely. I certainly didn't expect to see that the Russian flagship had been sunk by any cause during this war unless NATO were fully involved.

[farawaysaint]

5 hours ago, Jimmy_D said:

That sounds more possible, the level of continued Ukrainian success so far in this war does suggest some sort of presence of Western Special Forces with plausible deniability, as well as significant Russian underperformance.

Would be almost impossible to know for sure though, Ukraine does have the capability apparently, with Neptune missiles.

Another possibility could be Russian sabotage, which if it was intended to scuttle the ship but not kill, could possibly tally up with Russian reports of a fire of unknown origin and no casualties, as they may have had far more of a warning to abandon ship. Any non-deliberate cause for a fire would be very unlikely to sink the ship, unless there were massive oversights on firefighting systems.

Whichever it was, ALL of them were highly unlikely. I certainly didn't expect to see that the Russian flagship had been sunk by any cause during this war unless NATO were fully involved.

I seriously doubt the UK could ship their harpoons promised 3 days ago to Odessa including a coastal operation system in time.

Neptune missiles have been under development for years and were due for rollout late 2021.

I doubt Ukraine has many of them ready to go but it’s still far more likely than a Harpoon strike.

[badgerx16]

6 hours ago, skintsaint said:

So many seem to believe there were no casualties. 

Well, they also believe that no civilians have been injured during the SMO in Ukraine, and that Mariupol has been levelled by the Ukrainians.

Edited 14 April, 2022 by badgerx16

[badgerx16]

Even Japan is now sending military aid to Ukraine - another country that has amended it's constitution as a consequence of Putin's megalomania.

[badgerx16]

 

[Lighthouse]

Isn't the Kuznetsov moored up somewhere undergoing a major refit? We should get 617 Squadron to drop a couple of Tallboys on it, like they did with the Tirpitz.

[Lighthouse]

 

[kyle04]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

Isn't the Kuznetsov moored up somewhere undergoing a major refit? We should get 617 Squadron to drop a couple of Tallboys on it, like they did with the Tirpitz.

The joint largest battleship the Germans had, and it never fired a shot in anger. The UK are sending our Harpoon system, hopefully more of the same to come.

[Jimmy_D]

1 hour ago, farawaysaint said:

I seriously doubt the UK could ship their harpoons promised 3 days ago to Odessa including a coastal operation system in time.

Neptune missiles have been under development for years and were due for rollout late 2021.

I doubt Ukraine has many of them ready to go but it’s still far more likely than a Harpoon strike.

Agreed, Neptune missiles the most likely cause, although it seems Ukraine may have had as few as four(!) of them and held onto them for this long, waiting for the best chance to use them. One way or another they've ended up taking down the biggest target in the Russian fleet. Sounds like this would have been the first time Neptunes have been used, so possibly Moskva had gotten a bit lax on maintaining constant defence systems and thought it had no threats. 

[badgerx16]

20 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Isn't the Kuznetsov moored up somewhere undergoing a major refit? We should get 617 Squadron to drop a couple of Tallboys on it, like they did with the Tirpitz.

 

16 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

The joint largest battleship the Germans had, and it never fired a shot in anger. The UK are sending our Harpoon system, hopefully more of the same to come.

In Oslo some of the metal plates that are placed for safety over roadworks are actually pieces of the Tirpitz's hull armour.

 

The Kusnetsov is so decrepit and unreliable that it is a bigger threat to it's own crew than any enemy might be.

Edited 14 April, 2022 by badgerx16

[badgerx16]

🎵 "I follow the Moskva, down to the ocean floor, listening to the wind of chaaaaange" 🎵

 

( borrowed from reddit )

[skintsaint]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

 

Waiting for this to do the rounds as real footage 😅

[kyle04]

Russian MOD saying a fire broke out on the cruiser, resulting in an ammunition cook off, by all accounts it has not yet sunk. If the cause was a missile strike it's a serious balls up by the Russians.

[farawaysaint]

Just now, kyle04 said:

Russian MOD saying a fire broke out on the cruiser, resulting in an ammunition cook off, by all accounts it has not yet sunk. If the cause was a missile strike it's a serious balls up by the Russians.

Last I heard it had rolled onto its side, doesn't exactly scream sea-worthy. 

[skintsaint]

We should get satellite imagery soon enough, either of the ship itself or wreckage/oil slicks.

[badgerx16]

The US is sending Mi-17 and Mi-24 helicopters flown out of Afghanistan by the Afghan air force as the Talibannies took over, plus possibly some of the helos owned by the US Army Test and Evaluation Division. They are also sending M113 infantry mobility vehicles.

[farawaysaint]

1 hour ago, skintsaint said:

We should get satellite imagery soon enough, either of the ship itself or wreckage/oil slicks.

Lithuanian MOD below, news reports from Turkey support this description as well.

[whelk]

2 hours ago, kyle04 said:

Russian MOD saying a fire broke out on the cruiser, resulting in an ammunition cook off, by all accounts it has not yet sunk. If the cause was a missile strike it's a serious balls up by the Russians.

I saw the word ‘cook’ and initially wondered if Batman was on a special op

[Whitey Grandad]

Some of the replies are worth seeing too.

 

 

Edited 14 April, 2022 by Whitey Grandad

[Jimmy_D]

4 hours ago, kyle04 said:

Russian MOD saying a fire broke out on the cruiser, resulting in an ammunition cook off, by all accounts it has not yet sunk. If the cause was a missile strike it's a serious balls up by the Russians.

It hasn't sunk, it's just on a special underwater operation.

[badgerx16]

The Russians are complaining that Ukraine has, allegedly, shelled a village on the Russian side of the border.

 

Diddums.

( Although I suspect it's either a false flag or purely incompetently vectored Russian artillery ).

Edited 14 April, 2022 by badgerx16

[whelk]

 

[badgerx16]

Weeeeeeell, Mr President, the good news is that it is still "afloat".....…

[cloggy saint]

It would be nice to know exactly what's going on with the Moskva. So far I've heard it's sunk, capsized or is being towed to port while still burning. It's/was a 200m warship, it shouldn't be that hard to get independent verification.

Edited 14 April, 2022 by cloggy saint

[Jimmy_D]

Reports that Russian ships are withdrawing further out into the Black Sea away from the Ukrainian coast, which lends credence to the claims it was a missile strike.

It's still possible an accident took Moskva out of action and it's a reaction to losing the defensive capability it provided, but either way, it indicates that Russia thinks there's some sort of shore based threat to their ships.

[badgerx16]

American reports say that the Moskva is on fire and sailing slowly towards Sevastopol.

[farawaysaint]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

American reports say that the Moskva is on fire and sailing slowly towards Sevastopol.

Russian MOD have admitted the ship has sunk.

 

[Lighthouse]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

American reports say that the Moskva is on fire and sailing slowly towards Sevastopol.

Nope. The fire is out, apparently.

 

[Jimmy_D]

3 minutes ago, farawaysaint said:

Russian MOD have admitted the ship has sunk.

 

Seen some speculation that US description earlier may have been to reduce the risk of triggering retaliatory strikes on Kyiv immediately, there were NATO delegates there at the time.

[Jonnyboy]

On 12/04/2022 at 21:45, kyle04 said:

Having watched the video, I can conclude that the narrator is a fucking idiot. Yes, WMD were either a complete lie or a result of fatally flawed intelligence, we know that, Holywood have made films about it etc. To equate that with questioning war crimes in Ukraine is just perverse. The "Russian war crimes" is not a US sourced theory, based on hearsay or "reliable sources". We've seen the destruction, the bodies, the mass graves, the naked corpse of a 3 year old dumped in a cellar among her murdered and raped family. As for US misinformation pre-empting possible events, this is a fucking war, not a video game, innocent people are dying in their droves on a daily basis. Anything that makes Russia doubt  a possible next move is acceptable IMO. I don't know what Jonnyboy (the emphasis on the "boy") is trying to achieve by posting this paranoid rubbish.

Quite bizarre seeing someone calling me a "boy" and saying it's "not a computer game" displaying such a war boner with regular posts that drip with pleasure at all the death, destruction and exciting weaponry being deployed. 

PS you have the name of yank child. 

[kyle04]

Shouldn't you be in bed, it's quite late ?

[buctootim]

Interesting developments in Russia last 48 hours. The amount of Russian web traffic going through VPNs has increased tenfold in the past week and the normally supine Parliament speaker said there were no plans to ban VPN use. On some of the Russian state media websites its rare to be allowed to comment on stories and normally even the most oblique implied criticisms end up in immediate bans. On Novosti this morning more than half the post are hypercritical. Either their filter is down or they are starting to distance themselves from Putin. Maybe the dam is breaking

These are some of the comments on Novosti (which still insists it sank in a storm after a fire) 

"Oh, how much pathos! But in fact, the king is naked! The Russian army is like homeless people on old tanks of the USSR! Glory to corruption in Russia, glory! You can only bomb civilians and destroy cities out of anger! An army of rapists and marauders!"

"Not a word of truth. Bastards".

"It's all Shoigu's fault, he didn't serve a day in the army and became the Minister of Defense. Dismiss with confiscation of property."

"This is a significant event that the MOSCOW cruiser sank, that is, it confirms the situation that Russia will drown in this war".

"20 plus (years Putin) did nothing for the country, and then it suddenly turned out that there was no industry and there were traitors all around"

https://ria.ru/20220414/kreyser-1783626130.html?rcmd_alg=slotter

[whelk]

9 hours ago, Jonnyboy said:

Quite bizarre seeing someone calling me a "boy" and saying it's "not a computer game" displaying such a war boner with regular posts that drip with pleasure at all the death, destruction and exciting weaponry being deployed. 

PS you have the name of yank child. 

Smiled at term war boner but interested in your view on actually sending weapons to Ukraine. Do you think Ukrainians should’ve just surrendered?

[badgerx16]

Kremlin spokesman Dmitri Peskov: “If Ukraine continues its provocations by attacking Russian cities, Russia will be forced to declare war against Ukraine”.

[skintsaint]

29 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Kremlin spokesman Dmitri Peskov: “If Ukraine continues its provocations by attacking Russian cities, Russia will be forced to declare war against Ukraine”.

Amazing. What news are they feeding the Russian population.

[Lighthouse]

Have I misunderstood this; Russia have launched missile attacks on Kyiv in retaliation for a technical malfunction on a ship?

[kyle04]

Russian MOD spokesman :

He stressed that "the number and scale of missile strikes against targets in Kyiv will be increased in response to the Kiev nationalist regime committing any attacks of a terrorist nature or sabotage on Russian territory."

[badgerx16]

21 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

Russian MOD spokesman :

He stressed that "the number and scale of missile strikes against targets in Kyiv will be increased in response to the Kiev nationalist regime committing any attacks of a terrorist nature or sabotage on Russian territory."

Those false flag helicopter raids are starting to have the desired effect. Of course Russia has done absolutely nothing to provoke an aggressive response from the Ukrainians.

Edited 15 April, 2022 by badgerx16

[badgerx16]

48 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Have I misunderstood this; Russia have launched missile attacks on Kyiv in retaliation for a technical malfunction on a ship?

From a BBC article;

"While one TV talk show host didn’t speculate on Ukraine’s claims that it had struck the ship, a clearly emotional studio guest - film director and ex-MP Vladimir Bortko - said the fate of the Moskva was grounds for war. "

 

It is reported that the Kremlin has issued an order that anything in Ukraine that cannot be captured by Victory Day ( May 9th ) should be destroyed.

Edited 15 April, 2022 by badgerx16

[buctootim]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

"While one TV talk show host didn’t speculate on Ukraine’s claims that it had struck the ship, a clearly emotional studio guest - film director and ex-MP Vladimir Bortko - said the fate of the Moskva was grounds for war. "

I watched that clip from Rossiya1. The emotional war guy was odd enough but there was also the CEO of Russia Today arguing passionately on national tv that censorship was good because it made citizens proud and therefore happier than being told the truth. One of the most bizarre things I have ever seen.   Surely a few more Russians must be beginning to think "huh? hey hang on....."

Edited 15 April, 2022 by buctootim

[buctootim]