Russia

[buctootim]

8 minutes ago, Mystic Force said:

Ukrainians soldiers killing people who surrendered is bad, Russians invading someone else's country, rapping and murdering civilians is worse. Ukraine is at least not saying its justified or refusing to acknowledge it could be happening. Russian has taken no responsibility and even encouraged this behavior because it thinks its actions are justified because they are all "Nazis"

Yep. Even in the best most disciplined armies you will always get instances like this in war. The difference is that Ukraine fesses up and does something about it. The Russians actively encourage it as a weapon of terror then deny deny deny and blame someone else.  

Edited 8 April, 2022 by buctootim

[badgerx16]

31 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Geneva Convention.

Is a nice collection of articles and reference materials that most signatories want enforced as long as they are not involved in the armed confrontation in question. Russia has not ratified all of the protocols.

[kyle04]

“We are a European army, and we do not mock our prisoners,” senior presidential adviser Oleksiy Arestovych said at the time. “If this turns out to be real, this is absolutely unacceptable behavior.”

A slightly different attitude from Russia's constant "fake news/false flag" assertions after every atrocity it commits. This can't be condoned though, although given the behaviour of Russian troops towards unarmed civilians I would think many Ukrainian POW's have met a similar fate. What is for now an isolated incident can get blown out of all proportion and fuel the Russian propaganda machine, although it appears that the unit responsible were Georgians.

[manji]

There was a large demo in the Maidan Square to celebrate the democratic election in 2014. Members of the Azov Brigade opened fire on thier fellow Ukrainians. Which sparked off the Nazi coup. The fighting from then is called the Donbass war it is continuing to now. 
The Azov were described by the CIA as worse than the SS. Since 2014 Azov are well known for killing collaborators. 

[badgerx16]

9 minutes ago, manji said:

There was a large demo in the Maidan Square to celebrate the democratic election in 2014. Members of the Azov Brigade opened fire on thier fellow Ukrainians. Which sparked off the Nazi coup. The fighting from then is called the Donbass war it is continuing to now. 
The Azov were described by the CIA as worse than the SS. Since 2014 Azov are well known for killing collaborators. 

Nazi coup ?

[farawaysaint]

22 minutes ago, manji said:

There was a large demo in the Maidan Square to celebrate the democratic election in 2014. Members of the Azov Brigade opened fire on thier fellow Ukrainians. Which sparked off the Nazi coup. The fighting from then is called the Donbass war it is continuing to now. 
The Azov were described by the CIA as worse than the SS. Since 2014 Azov are well known for killing collaborators. 

How on earth was euromaidan a nazi coup?

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, farawaysaint said:

How on earth was euromaidan a nazi coup?

It wasn't. It wasn't even, as Manji claims, to 'celebrate' an election. It started in late 2013 when the pro-Russian President leveraged the Ukrainian Parliament to renege on plans to approach the EU for closer economic ties. This led to mass protests through November 2013, that culminated in violence in February 2014, after which the President fled to Moscow, the Parliament was dissolved, and new elections were set for May 2014. There are claims from both sides about the shootings; most likely the majority were caused by the Police, though there were snipers shooting at and killing a few of the security personnel present.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, kyle04 said:

“We are a European army, and we do not mock our prisoners,” senior presidential adviser Oleksiy Arestovych said at the time. “If this turns out to be real, this is absolutely unacceptable behavior.”

A slightly different attitude from Russia's constant "fake news/false flag" assertions after every atrocity it commits. This can't be condoned though, although given the behaviour of Russian troops towards unarmed civilians I would think many Ukrainian POW's have met a similar fate. What is for now an isolated incident can get blown out of all proportion and fuel the Russian propaganda machine, although it appears that the unit responsible were Georgians.

Which is a refreshing attitude compared to the Russians.

Let's hope the Ukrainians deal swiftly and effectively with their war crimes to set a precedent.

[benjii]

39 minutes ago, manji said:

There was a large demo in the Maidan Square to celebrate the democratic election in 2014. Members of the Azov Brigade opened fire on thier fellow Ukrainians. Which sparked off the Nazi coup. The fighting from then is called the Donbass war it is continuing to now. 
The Azov were described by the CIA as worse than the SS. Since 2014 Azov are well known for killing collaborators. 

Really surprised to see you talking complete shite.

[kyle04]

37 minutes ago, manji said:

The Azov were described by the CIA as worse than the SS.

Well thats some achievement if their assessment is true. In the 8 years hence the AZOV have been incorporated into the mainstream military, and are at present slowly being wiped out in Mariupol. Yes Ukraine has had a turbulent recent history, but dosen't deserve Russia's blatent attempt to wipe them out. Though still a young country in many ways, they're more democratic now that Russia will ever be.

[whelk]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Geneva Convention.

Maybe we should advocate sanctions against Ukraine?

[Johnny Bognor]

51 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

It wasn't. It wasn't even, as Manji claims, to 'celebrate' an election. It started in late 2013 when the pro-Russian President leveraged the Ukrainian Parliament to renege on plans to approach the EU for closer economic ties. This led to mass protests through November 2013, that culminated in violence in February 2014, after which the President fled to Moscow, the Parliament was dissolved, and new elections were set for May 2014. There are claims from both sides about the shootings; most likely the majority were caused by the Police, though there were snipers shooting at and killing a few of the security personnel present.

Indeed.

Watch Winter of Fire on Netflix (a documentary with cameras on the ground, documenting what happened at the time)

A thouroughly good documentary

 

Edited 8 April, 2022 by Johnny Bognor

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

Maybe we should advocate sanctions against Ukraine?

On what basis?

[whelk]

4 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

On what basis?

That you seemed to like warped equivocations

[Weston Super Saint]

2 minutes ago, whelk said:

That you seemed to like warped equivocations

Nah, I was just answering fecetious with facetious.

My original point was about war crimes.  Maybe you think that only one side can commit them because they're the baddies, right?

Edited 8 April, 2022 by Weston Super Saint

[Jimmy_D]

22 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Nah, I was just answering fecetious with facetious.

My original point was about war crimes.  Maybe you think that only one side can commit them because they're the baddies, right?

What point are you trying to make?

No one is claiming that it’s impossible for Ukrainian soldiers to commit war crimes, or that they would be justified in doing so. There’s no indication that a blind eye is being turned to evidence of such incidents.

One side does appear to be using war crimes, however, as part of their widespread deliberate tactics.

[Weston Super Saint]

13 hours ago, Jimmy_D said:

What point are you trying to make?

No one is claiming that it’s impossible for Ukrainian soldiers to commit war crimes, or that they would be justified in doing so. There’s no indication that a blind eye is being turned to evidence of such incidents.

One side does appear to be using war crimes, however, as part of their widespread deliberate tactics.

That BOTH sides are commiting war crimes, however, condemnation only seems to be heaped on ONE side.

Some people are very 'understanding' as to why the Ukrainian soldiers would want to kill their prisoners of war.

[whelk]

3 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

That BOTH sides are commiting war crimes, however, condemnation only seems to be heaped on ONE side.

Some people are very 'understanding' as to why the Ukrainian soldiers would want to kill their prisoners of war.

Lol - Batman light. Well done balanced old you.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

Lol - Batman light. Well done balanced old you.

Thank you.

[whelk]

1 minute ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Thank you.

MLT might be able to help you ‘join the dots’ and getting to the real balanced ‘truth’

[Jimmy_D]

35 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

That BOTH sides are commiting war crimes, however, condemnation only seems to be heaped on ONE side.

Some people are very 'understanding' as to why the Ukrainian soldiers would want to kill their prisoners of war.

What makes you think possible Ukrainian warcrimes aren’t being condemned?

[badgerx16]

37 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

That BOTH sides are commiting war crimes, however, condemnation only seems to be heaped on ONE side.

Some people are very 'understanding' as to why the Ukrainian soldiers would want to kill their prisoners of war.

On the one side there may be a video that shows one soldier being shot after capture, and the Ukrainians saying it will be properly investigated. On the other there is clear and irrefutable evidence of THOUSANDS of non-combatants being deliberately targetted and killed and those responsible denying it all. Absolutely requires a 'balanced' view.

Edited 9 April, 2022 by badgerx16

[CB Fry]

45 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

That BOTH sides are commiting war crimes, however, condemnation only seems to be heaped on ONE side.

Some people are very 'understanding' as to why the Ukrainian soldiers would want to kill their prisoners of war.

Jesus wept.

 

[Tamesaint]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

That BOTH sides are commiting war crimes, however, condemnation only seems to be heaped on ONE side.

Some people are very 'understanding' as to why the Ukrainian soldiers would want to kill their prisoners of war.

The spelling of "commiting" is not the most stupid thing on this post.

Good old Piggy. Always good for a laugh. 

[badgerx16]

 

[Lighthouse]

I can’t believe that, if 121,000 children had been abducted we’d have heard a lot more about it.

[farawaysaint]

Russia has for decades been doing whatever they can to address their population decline including offering passports to every native Russian speaking Slav they can.

120,000 seems a bit shocking but to be honest I wouldn’t be surprised if it is happening. There were plenty of stories of refugees in Russian filtration camps having their Ukrainian documents destroyed and being issued Russian ones.

[Lighthouse]

9 minutes ago, farawaysaint said:

Russia has for decades been doing whatever they can to address their population decline

That’s because they have a stagnant economy and people just don’t want to have families there, not because they are all infertile. I can’t imagine there are 121,000 Russian families out there who want to adopt kidnapped Ukrainian children.

[buctootim]

5 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

That’s because they have a stagnant economy and people just don’t want to have families there, not because they are all infertile. I can’t imagine there are 121,000 Russian families out there who want to adopt kidnapped Ukrainian children.

Russia has hundreds of thousands of 'orphans' already, most of whom have been rejected by their parents. If its true its probably part of Putin's plan to blackmail Ukraine and to stop them growing up with fancy ideas of democracy and independence.  

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

I can’t believe that, if 121,000 children had been abducted we’d have heard a lot more about it.

We have just heard about it.

[whelk]

16 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

I can’t believe that, if 121,000 children had been abducted we’d have heard a lot more about it.

And yet no reports of how many Russian children the Ukrainians have kidnapped? Makes you think

[OldNick]

17 hours ago, farawaysaint said:

Russia has for decades been doing whatever they can to address their population decline including offering passports to every native Russian speaking Slav they can.

120,000 seems a bit shocking but to be honest I wouldn’t be surprised if it is happening. There were plenty of stories of refugees in Russian filtration camps having their Ukrainian documents destroyed and being issued Russian ones.

its ironic that Putin says hes going after Nazis when this policy of taking kids to give to Russians, is similar to what the Nazi's did, who gave kids to SS and top party members 

[whelk]

18 minutes ago, OldNick said:

its ironic that Putin says hes going after Nazis when this policy of taking kids to give to Russians, is similar to what the Nazi's did, who gave kids to SS and top party members 

Not really irony as this is all part of deliberate confusion - ‘hyper normalisation’

 

[Lighthouse]

121,000 is basically EVERY child in a city the size of Leeds. That's some Pied Piper s**t going on right there, I think it'd be pretty substantial front page news.

[Whitey Grandad]

49 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

121,000 is basically EVERY child in a city the size of Leeds. That's some Pied Piper s**t going on right there, I think it'd be pretty substantial front page news.

They must all have been nazis and this is part of his programme of de-nazification.

[badgerx16]

[buctootim]

 

God has a sense of humour. 

 

[whelk]

58 minutes ago, buctootim said:

 

God has a sense of humour. 

 

RIP Richard Stilgoe 

[Lighthouse]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61066503

They're approaching flat-earther levels of delusion at times. He's basically saying, "you know all those atrocities in Ukraine, it would be very unwise of you to try and protect yourself from that in some way."

What astonishes me is the number of other people who still think NATO are the aggressors. Russia has given us the most perfect excuse to start a fight we could ever dream of and we still haven't fired a single shot. 

[whelk]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61066503

They're approaching flat-earther levels of delusion at times. He's basically saying, "you know all those atrocities in Ukraine, it would be very unwise of you to try and protect yourself from that in some way."

What astonishes me is the number of other people who still think NATO are the aggressors. Russia has given us the most perfect excuse to start a fight we could ever dream of and we still haven't fired a single shot. 

Who thinks NATO are the aggressors? MLT maybe but we can’t all be on that level of deep thinking.

Putin is so stupid and basically strengthened NATO and endorsed membership. Now the ‘you better not’ approach is going to fall on deaf ears. ‘Or what big boy? You going to send in some drunken rapists in shit tanks and get fucked over’

[farawaysaint]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61066503

They're approaching flat-earther levels of delusion at times. He's basically saying, "you know all those atrocities in Ukraine, it would be very unwise of you to try and protect yourself from that in some way."

What astonishes me is the number of other people who still think NATO are the aggressors. Russia has given us the most perfect excuse to start a fight we could ever dream of and we still haven't fired a single shot. 

To be honest the only difference from Kosovo is a shit ton of nukes as far as I can tell so the whole moral outrage angle over Kosovo now feels a bit hollow.

[kyle04]

It's looking like Mariupol is now resembling Berlin in 1945, tens of thousands of civilian casualties, Ukrainian marines running out of ammo, and men probably. The newly appointed Russian general (Alexander Dvornikov) makes bomber Harris look like private Godfrey apparently so expect more of the same, he's the same animal who leveled Aleppo. So what can Ukraine do now? The child rapists are massing in the eastern part of the country, tens of thousands of men, it's gonna take more than a few NLAW's to get them out. This is going to take many months if not years. As for Putin threatening Finland/Sweden, I don't think he's in  a position to start a war with another two countries, if he wants to send forces to the Finnish border (800 miles worth), that's fewer troops in Ukraine, so fuck him.

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61066503

They're approaching flat-earther levels of delusion at times. He's basically saying, "you know all those atrocities in Ukraine, it would be very unwise of you to try and protect yourself from that in some way."

What astonishes me is the number of other people who still think NATO are the aggressors. Russia has given us the most perfect excuse to start a fight we could ever dream of and we still haven't fired a single shot. 

NATO didn’t have to do anything. Just by being in existence it was seen as a threat by Putin and enough for him to start a war.

[farawaysaint]

Relatively widespread rumours of Russia using chemical agents in Mariopol…

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/1594611/russia-chemical-weapons-ukraine-latest-vladimir-putin-mariupol/amp

Edited 11 April, 2022 by farawaysaint

[kyle04]

1 hour ago, farawaysaint said:

Relatively widespread rumours of Russia using chemical agents in Mariopol…

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/1594611/russia-chemical-weapons-ukraine-latest-vladimir-putin-mariupol/amp

If true, over to you Biden...

[AlexLaw76]

7 hours ago, kyle04 said:

If true, over to you Biden...

To do what?

Biden (under Obama) stood by when Assad breached publicly defined ‘Red lines’ when chemical weapons were used in Syria 

If this is true, it will be met with more ‘strong words’ from NATO leaders, possibly more sanctions and Liz Truss had said she will “hold Putin to account”. So all will be fine.

In the meantime, the destruction of Ukraine just carries on!

Edited 12 April, 2022 by AlexLaw76

[badgerx16]

8 hours ago, kyle04 said:

If true, over to you Biden...

Biden will not get involved militarily unless a NATO member is attacked.

[whelk]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

To do what?

Biden (under Obama) stood by when Assad breached publicly defined ‘Red lines’ when chemical weapons were used in Syria 

If this is true, it will be met with more ‘strong words’ from NATO leaders, possibly more sanctions and Liz Truss had said she will “hold Putin to account”. So all will be fine.

In the meantime, the destruction of Ukraine just carries on!

Yeah ridiculous saying Putinwill be ‘held to account’ so not up til now then?

[whelk]

Fucking Chinese 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/11/technology/china-russia-propaganda.html

[badgerx16]

39 minutes ago, whelk said:

Fucking Chinese 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/11/technology/china-russia-propaganda.html

Not every country holds the Western World view. China especially, but also India and some African nations, are playing their own game. It is likely that at least half of the global population tune in to media outlets that don't follow the UK/US/EU narrative over Ukraine.

Edited 12 April, 2022 by badgerx16