Russia

[badgerx16]

3 hours ago, Millbrook Saint said:

I have little sympathy for the Germans or the EU for that matter, they were warned that they were too reliant on Russian oil and gas and they're opening themselves to being blackmailed and so it's transpired, unfortunately the guy warning them was Trump so they just laughed at him.  Goes to show, don't play the man, play the ball.

Maybe Trump's imposition of trade tariffs and talk of reducing US commitment to NATO, as demonstrated by his reduction in troop numbers stationed here, led European countries to think of looking for security elsewhere, including closer economic ties with Russia.

 

[badgerx16]

36 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Unless I'm misreading that post, isn't it Russia's total military inventory worldwide, as opposed to their deployment in Ukraine? Furthermore, it's also just as list of produced units which may or may not be serviceable.

Russia's defence budget is basically equal to our own. Officially it's a couple of billion more but a lot of that will disappear down the well of bureaucracy, bribery and wastage with Putin's cronies at the helm. Russia claims to have 1,400 aircraft but we can just about keep 1/3 of that up to date and airworthy on a similar budget.

If they have lost 150 aircraft in a month, that's a pretty big deal, bearing in mind they have to keep enough in reserve to defend the largest airspace in the world, from the coasts of Japan and Alaska all the way to the NATO border.

Considering there are plenty of images coming out of Ukraine showing troops with WW1 rifles and pre-WW2 machine guns, they have issues throughout their armoury. According to some reports only 1 in 10 of the thousands of tanks in long term storage have been capable of being brought up to operational status.

Edited 6 April, 2022 by badgerx16

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, kyle04 said:

I would take the Russian MOD figures with a very large pinch of salt. This site has been linked before :

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html?m=1

It lists each sides losses with photographic evidence of each entry, although as it states the actual losses will be higher than documented but there's an enormous discrepency in the figures for the Ukrainian losses, but the Russian losses are quite close to these figures. The Russians claim to have lost about 1500 men so far, the actual figure is probably anywhere between 12,000 to 18,000 dead alone. Aside from that, around half of "lost" Russian equipment has been captured by Ukraine, they have more stuff now than they started with with the exception or aircraft and ships.

They only had the one frigate and that was in duck undergoing a major service so they scuttled it in order to try to protect it.

My son in law and his company had been working on a bid to supply Ukraine with a further four frigates together with naval bases and training.

Oops

[kyle04]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Considering there are plenty of images coming out of Ukraine showing troops with WW1 rifles and pre-WW2 machine guns, they have issues throughout their armoury. According to some reports only 1 in 10 of the thousands of tanks in long term storage have been capable of being brought up to operational status.

Theres a video somewhere of a truckload of captured conscripts bemoaning their fate, complaining of being given rifles "that don't even fire". It's encouraging to think that much of Russia's vast military arsenal might be unfit for service. Also, the Russian troops now being re-deployed might not be fit for action, given the traumatic mauling they've received. A retired US general alluded to this recently, what he termed "regeneration" of battle weary troops, a process that can take many weeks.

Regarding the Russian tanks, yes many will be rusting away in warehouses 1000's of miles from the front line. The T72, T80 etc have a fundamental flaw in their design which is obvious when viewing pictures of them destroyed, many have literally been blown to bits when their own ammo detonates after a ATGM hit. They have auto-reloaders instead of a manual system, thus needing only 3 men not 4 to operate the tank. These reloader carousels are mounted just below the turret, and just above the tankers with no barrier. The psychological impact of seeing your comrades blown to atoms after every hit must be enormous. Some ex US military top brass have called for Ukraine to be supplied with Abrams M1 battle tanks, a far superior and safer weapon, but I doubt this will happen. Whilst the US aid has been substantial, the recent $300M package seems a lot until you equate that with the $9 Billion per month they spent on the Iraq war.

[badgerx16]

9 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

Theres a video somewhere of a truckload of captured conscripts bemoaning their fate, complaining of being given rifles "that don't even fire". It's encouraging to think that much of Russia's vast military arsenal might be unfit for service. Also, the Russian troops now being re-deployed might not be fit for action, given the traumatic mauling they've received. A retired US general alluded to this recently, what he termed "regeneration" of battle weary troops, a process that can take many weeks.

Regarding the Russian tanks, yes many will be rusting away in warehouses 1000's of miles from the front line. The T72, T80 etc have a fundamental flaw in their design which is obvious when viewing pictures of them destroyed, many have literally been blown to bits when their own ammo detonates after a ATGM hit. They have auto-reloaders instead of a manual system, thus needing only 3 men not 4 to operate the tank. These reloader carousels are mounted just below the turret, and just above the tankers with no barrier. The psychological impact of seeing your comrades blown to atoms after every hit must be enormous. Some ex US military top brass have called for Ukraine to be supplied with Abrams M1 battle tanks, a far superior and safer weapon, but I doubt this will happen. Whilst the US aid has been substantial, the recent $300M package seems a lot until you equate that with the $9 Billion per month they spent on the Iraq war.

Ukraine has no experience with modern US armour so would need extensive training, and the engines on the M1 require specialist engineering tools and facilities. Much better to go with the Poland proposal; any NATO member with Russian tanks passes them to Ukraine and the US then backfills their units with reserve M1s. The only issue there might be where countries like Poland, Slovenia, and Bulgaria have upgraded T-72s etc. with modern western tech that NATO might not want to risk falling into Russian hands on the battlefield.

[Lighthouse]

4 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Considering there are plenty of images coming out of Ukraine showing troops with WW1 rifles and pre-WW2 machine guns, they have issues throughout their armoury. According to some reports only 1 in 10 of the thousands of tanks in long term storage have been capable of being brought up to operational status.

I can well believe it. I'll stop short of actually being sympathetic towards any Russian soldiers but it must be terrifying, going to war in a badly maintained, 50 year old tank, up against sophisticated western missiles which carve through them like a hot knife through fresh air.

[buctootim]

 

I wonder ow long Chinese memories are.....

"Everything south of the Nerchinsk Line from 1689 is stolen Chinese land. In the Treaty of Aigun (1858), Russia stole everything up to the Amur River (in yellow). In the Peking Treaty (1860), they stole all the land east of the Ussuri River (in red)."

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1508937677789409285/photo/1

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

I can well believe it. I'll stop short of actually being sympathetic towards any Russian soldiers but it must be terrifying, going to war in a badly maintained, 50 year old tank, up against sophisticated western missiles which carve through them like a hot knife through fresh air.

If the stories of the Explosive Reactive Armour pads on some tanks actually effectively being empty cardboard boxes as the explosives and electronic components have been stripped out for the black market,  that wouldn't help.

Edited 6 April, 2022 by badgerx16

[Millbrook Saint]

17 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Maybe Trump's imposition of trade tariffs and talk of reducing US commitment to NATO, as demonstrated by his reduction in troop numbers stationed here, led European countries to think of looking for security elsewhere, including closer economic ties with Russia.

 

Listen, I don't want to get into Trump did this or that, fact of the matter is, they were warned and just scoffed at the person warning them, by the way he talked of reducing his NATO commitment because certain countries weren't paying their agreed amount.  Regardless, the EU have sent the same amount of military aid, $1b dollars to Ukraine as they send to Russia EACH DAY for oil and gas.  Nice one EU, keep funding the genocide in Ukraine.

[Johnny Bognor]

Couldnt stand this bloke on Brexit, but he has nailed it:

Calling out the EU Leaders (and Germany in particular) on their pathetic sanctions...

https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1511667812137377804?s=20&t=1hBsUn1Yy2D0PhX8NOJtMw

Edited 7 April, 2022 by Johnny Bognor

[Johnny Bognor]

Whilst the EU parliament have voted unanimously to block all fossil fuel imports from Russia...  what are the leaders going to do???

Edited 7 April, 2022 by Johnny Bognor

[Johnny Bognor]

Meanwhile the West stands by while this is going on.....

 

Mobile crematoria in #Mariupol Mayor of Mariupol Vadim Boychenko said today that #Russian mobile crematoria have started operating in the city. According to him, tens of thousands of people could have died in Mariupol and the cremation, "covering up the traces of crimes".

Show this thread

 

 

[kyle04]

So the Russians are now using mobile versions of Auschwitz, and yet claim to be destroying Nazis.

Still, the UN will vote on removing Russia from the Human Rights council, that'll really hit them where it hurts.

[kyle04]

2 hours ago, Millbrook Saint said:

Listen, I don't want to get into Trump did this or that, fact of the matter is, they were warned and just scoffed at the person warning them, by the way he talked of reducing his NATO commitment because certain countries weren't paying their agreed amount.  Regardless, the EU have sent the same amount of military aid, $1b dollars to Ukraine as they send to Russia EACH DAY for oil and gas.  Nice one EU, keep funding the genocide in Ukraine.

Thats true, but Germany in particular have their balls in Russias grip at the moment, its not easy to just turn off the taps and get gas elsewhere.

A chart of gas producing countries puts it in perspective :

 

(Germany are 48th, with a figure of 337,258,250)

 

Edited 7 April, 2022 by kyle04

[Millbrook Saint]

18 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

Thats true, but Germany in particular have their balls in Russias grip at the moment, its not easy to just turn off the taps and get gas elsewhere.

A chart of gas producing countries puts it in perspective :

 

(Germany are 48th, with a figure of 337,258,250)

 

It's shameful how the West have allowed this to happen, I'm not sure how much we use but I'm pretty sure it'll be a fair amount more than we produce, the fault of this lies fully at all governments in the past 30 odd years who have not planned ahead and pushed green agendas before national energy safety.  It wouldn't surprise me if some putin's propaganda machine pushed some of these green agendas in an attempt to make us more reliant on them.  Would love to see who was behind the lobbying of the government to stop fracking.

[kyle04]

On a similar note, a chart of the top 20 gas consuming countries :

You can see the problem Germany have.

[aintforever]

21 minutes ago, Millbrook Saint said:

It's shameful how the West have allowed this to happen, I'm not sure how much we use but I'm pretty sure it'll be a fair amount more than we produce, the fault of this lies fully at all governments in the past 30 odd years who have not planned ahead and pushed green agendas before national energy safety.  It wouldn't surprise me if some putin's propaganda machine pushed some of these green agendas in an attempt to make us more reliant on them.  Would love to see who was behind the lobbying of the government to stop fracking.

The best way to become unreliant on foreign imports of fossil fuels is to develop our own clean energy - the Green Party have said this for years.

A combination of renewables and nuclear is the only logical way forward long term.

[buctootim]

29 minutes ago, Millbrook Saint said:

It's shameful how the West have allowed this to happen, I'm not sure how much we use but I'm pretty sure it'll be a fair amount more than we produce, the fault of this lies fully at all governments in the past 30 odd years who have not planned ahead and pushed green agendas before national energy safety.  It wouldn't surprise me if some putin's propaganda machine pushed some of these green agendas in an attempt to make us more reliant on them.  Would love to see who was behind the lobbying of the government to stop fracking.

Sorry but most of that is nonsense. Renewables have helped slow / reduce the UKs demand for imported gas and mitigate the effects of the current high prices.

The real reason for Europe's reliance on imported gas is that it is generally much cheaper than the alternatives like nuclear. Britain took the cheapest option as always and ignored security of supply - much as we are now doing with food. France took a different approach and has seen minimal price rises.  

The deregulated gas market in the UK led to the horde of new energy companies competing only on price - which meant buying cheap on the spot markets as opposed to signing long term fixed price contracts.  Spot prices are driven primarily by sentiment - as soon as you get some turbulence from something like covid or political tensions the price goes up and our super duper deregulated market collapses.    

Edited 7 April, 2022 by buctootim

[skintsaint]

1 hour ago, Johnny Bognor said:

Meanwhile the West stands by while this is going on.....

 

Mobile crematoria in #Mariupol Mayor of Mariupol Vadim Boychenko said today that #Russian mobile crematoria have started operating in the city. According to him, tens of thousands of people could have died in Mariupol and the cremation, "covering up the traces of crimes".

Show this thread

 

 

These were rumoured from day 1 but had not been seen in Ukraine yet.

[badgerx16]

58 minutes ago, Millbrook Saint said:

It's shameful how the West have allowed this to happen, I'm not sure how much we use but I'm pretty sure it'll be a fair amount more than we produce, the fault of this lies fully at all governments in the past 30 odd years who have not planned ahead and pushed green agendas before national energy safety.  It wouldn't surprise me if some putin's propaganda machine pushed some of these green agendas in an attempt to make us more reliant on them.  Would love to see who was behind the lobbying of the government to stop fracking.

What a load of tripe.

Edited 7 April, 2022 by badgerx16

[Millbrook Saint]

35 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

On a similar note, a chart of the top 20 gas consuming countries :

You can see the problem Germany have.

Don't really care about Germany's self inflicted problem, it's nothing compared to the raping of women and children and the executions of civilians they're funding, they should end all business with Russia now and ration gas if need be till they can sort their shit out, if I was German I'd be more than happy to have my gas rationed if it would help.

18 minutes ago, aintforever said:

The best way to become unreliant on foreign imports of fossil fuels is to develop our own clean energy - the Green Party have said this for years.

A combination of renewables and nuclear is the only logical way forward long term.

I agree, we should have invested in nuclear years ago and even when we did we tried to outsource it to China ffs, what could possibly go wrong there, though I'm not even sure what the greens policy on nuclear is?

19 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Sorry but most of that is nonsense. Renewables have helped slow / reduce the UKs demand for imported gas and mitigate the effects of the current high prices.

The real reason for Europe's reliance on imported gas is that it is generally much cheaper than the alternatives like nuclear. Britain took the cheapest option as always and ignored security of supply - much as we are now doing with food. France took a different approach and has seen minimal price rises.  

The deregulated gas market in the UK led to the horde of new energy companies competing only on price - which meant buying cheap on the spot markets as opposed to signing long term fixed price contracts.  Spot prices are driven primarily by sentiment - as soon as you get some turbulence from something like covid or political tensions the price goes up and our super duper deregulated market collapses.    

I agree with pretty much this, though a lot of the renewables are heavily subsidised with levies added to our bills.  You can't blame any country for taking the cheapest option, at the time it seemed reasonable and no one was complaining, with hindsight it doesn't look so great and we should have set ourselves up to be self reliant.

I personally think things like energy supply should not be in the hands of private companies, it should be state owned, but run like a private company, the sole aim should be to keep prices down and the bosses get big bonuses similar to the private sector bonuses but performance is measured on how self sufficient and how cheap the bills are, not how much profit is made.  Any profit made can then go back in to funding research.  The one thing I'd do though is keep the unions away and not have it run like the NHS where it's just a money pit and bad management is piled on top of bad management.

Well that's my 3 for today

[badgerx16]

12 minutes ago, Millbrook Saint said:

 The one thing I'd do though is keep the unions away and not have it run like the NHS where it's just a money pit and bad management is piled on top of bad management.

Do away with internal markets and keep it well away from interfering politicians.

Edited 7 April, 2022 by badgerx16

[Jimmy_D]

56 minutes ago, Millbrook Saint said:

It's shameful how the West have allowed this to happen, I'm not sure how much we use but I'm pretty sure it'll be a fair amount more than we produce, the fault of this lies fully at all governments in the past 30 odd years who have not planned ahead and pushed green agendas before national energy safety.  It wouldn't surprise me if some putin's propaganda machine pushed some of these green agendas in an attempt to make us more reliant on them.  Would love to see who was behind the lobbying of the government to stop fracking.

The past 30 years have seen huge advances in renewables in the UK, and it’s still improving rapidly, enough that we’ve reduced coal use in the UK to almost nothing. At the end of last year the energy link to Norway was completed that’ll let our renewable capacity be used more of the time, due to their energy storage availability.

Although it wouldn’t be ideal, a lot of that coal energy generating capacity is still there if there was no other choice.

It’s only in recent years that renewable tech has gotten to the point where generating energy is competitive with fossil fuels. Millions of years of energy (all ultimately from the sun) and geologic processes have gone into creating an incredibly dense store of energy that’s been incredibly easy to access. Replacing that with tech that can capture and make available the same levels of energy more or less instantly without taking an incredibly long time to store it up isn’t so easy.

[Mystic Force]

Some of my assumptions about the world have had to be revisited. Trade was meant to deepen ties between countries making war less likely as we all lose, but as we have seen here the volatility in certain commodities has caused this to be an uneven trade over time, right now with energy supplies tight, pressure can be exerted from the supplier to the supplied, in times of low price the producers economies go into spasms of pain, promoting instability. In good time the profits often do not get shared around a country evenly and in bad times all seem to suffer. Natural gas was meant to be the intermediate less carbon producing fuel as we leave coal behind, before something else is able to scale sufficiently to take over. T Boone Pikens was all in on this, and got his arse handed to him mainly because it looks like he was all in too early, if he was still alive he would be milking it right now. I think we need to look at nuclear again, it is expensive compared to other options but is stable and with our current knowledge state considerably safer, but has the inherent problem with people we do not trust having access, if adoption becomes widespread, to things we would rather they did not. Simply at this point trade relationships cannot prevent war if leaders really want to do it anyway. WW I came around in a time of mass global trade, with an expectation that self interest would prevent a war happening, they were wrong then and we (and I include myself here) are wrong now.

Free markets are not about the allocation of resources that is a useful byproduct, most of the time. But when demand for a product is inflexible and a few players control aspects of a market the real purpose of a market is shown maximizing profit. But consumers are also to blame for what is going on, Americans buy the largest vehicle they can then complain about the cost of filling it up like they did not have a choice of opting for something more efficient. Over the last few months in this area I have been hearing of people paying 20% over asking for new pickup trucks because of the demand. These same people then complaining how much it cost in gasoline to drive.

[Jimmy_D]

Wow. Russia suspended from the UN Human Rights Council in a vote.

Probably largely symbolic, but it was still far from certain it’d go through, and it certainly sends a message as to how the World doesn’t share Russia’s ‘view’ of what’s happening.

[Dragon_man]

33 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

Wow. Russia suspended from the UN Human Rights Council in a vote.

Probably largely symbolic, but it was still far from certain it’d go through, and it certainly sends a message as to how the World doesn’t share Russia’s ‘view’ of what’s happening.

Though nearly half, 82, either voted against or abstained vs the 93 that voted in favour. Sad state of affairs when so many aren't motivated to act on senseless atrocities against innocent civilians. After this fiasco you do wonder what the purpose of the UN is. If it can't wade in and resolve something like this then it may as well pack up. 

[badgerx16]

From the BBC;

"Russia has suffered "significant losses of troops", President Vladimir Putin's spokesman has said.

Dmitry Peskov was asked on Sky News whether the war had been a "humiliation", given that Russia had retreated from the capital, lost thousands of troops and that President Volodymyr Zelensky was still in power.

He said this was a "wrong understanding" of what was going on.

But asked again if Russia has lost thousands of troops, he said: "Yes, we have significant losses of troops and it's a huge tragedy for us.""

..............

"Russian soldiers can be heard talking about the murder of Ukrainian civilians in military radio traffic intercepted by Germany's foreign intelligence (BND), according to several separate media reports.

The BND has audio material that appears to match the locations of bodies found in Bucha, the reports from German media say.

In one, Russians appear to talk about interrogating people and then shooting them.

In another, a soldier talks about shooting someone on a bike - which apparently matches a well-known photo showing a dead cyclist."

[Jimmy_D]

6 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

From the BBC;

"Russia has suffered "significant losses of troops", President Vladimir Putin's spokesman has said.

Dmitry Peskov was asked on Sky News whether the war had been a "humiliation", given that Russia had retreated from the capital, lost thousands of troops and that President Volodymyr Zelensky was still in power.

He said this was a "wrong understanding" of what was going on.

But asked again if Russia has lost thousands of troops, he said: "Yes, we have significant losses of troops and it's a huge tragedy for us.""

..............

"Russian soldiers can be heard talking about the murder of Ukrainian civilians in military radio traffic intercepted by Germany's foreign intelligence (BND), according to several separate media reports.

The BND has audio material that appears to match the locations of bodies found in Bucha, the reports from German media say.

In one, Russians appear to talk about interrogating people and then shooting them.

In another, a soldier talks about shooting someone on a bike - which apparently matches a well-known photo showing a dead cyclist."

Just seen that. Russia obviously have incurred significant losses, but seeing a Russian official admit that was unexpected.

[egg]

1 hour ago, Dragon_man said:

Though nearly half, 82, either voted against or abstained vs the 93 that voted in favour. Sad state of affairs when so many aren't motivated to act on senseless atrocities against innocent civilians. After this fiasco you do wonder what the purpose of the UN is. If it can't wade in and resolve something like this then it may as well pack up. 

Here's the voting:

[Weston Super Saint]

Please stop talking about Germans and gas, there are enough war crimes being committed.

[Jonnyboy]

21 hours ago, kyle04 said:

How so? If you're talking about newspapers you have a variety of viewpoints to choose from (Mail/Express v Guardian/Mirror for example). The TV news channels are broadly objective , social media is a chaotic free for all so where's the manipulation coming from? A few examples may back up your opinion.

Only last week, the TV/Radio stations all repeated the same line over and over that Russia is considering using Chemical weapons in Ukraine and that China was supplying weapons to Russia. 

The US has now already admitted that both allegations were completely false and is part of their broader strategy to prevent those things occurring. Thing is, those lies are now cemented in the broader consciousness of our society. 

[Lighthouse]

5 minutes ago, Jonnyboy said:

he US has now already admitted that both allegations were completely false and is part of their broader strategy to prevent those things occurring

Do you have a source for that? I seem to have completely missed it in the news.

[Jonnyboy]

6 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Do you have a source for that? I seem to have completely missed it in the news.

Sorry I'm only laughing because that's quite an ironic reply 

I shall try to find a link. I was just watching a pentagon guy being interviewed on American TV. It was a random twitter account and you can't share those embedded videos I think. 

[East Kent Saint]

22 minutes ago, Jonnyboy said:

Only last week, the TV/Radio stations all repeated the same line over and over that Russia is considering using Chemical weapons in Ukraine and that China was supplying weapons to Russia. 

The US has now already admitted that both allegations were completely false and is part of their broader strategy to prevent those things occurring. Thing is, those lies are now cemented in the broader consciousness of our society. 

I thought the story was Putin saying there were labs in Ukraine backed by USA , suggesting a source of any chemical weapons would be the Ukranians , Biden called them out as laying the groundwork for Russia to use chemical weapons and blame Ukraine/USA as per dead civilians found left in the road / mass graves when Russian troops retreated.

Likewise mentioning weaponry from China was also meant to make China think twice if they were thinking of it !!!!

[Lighthouse]

20 minutes ago, Jonnyboy said:

Sorry I'm only laughing because that's quite an ironic reply 

I shall try to find a link. I was just watching a pentagon guy being interviewed on American TV. It was a random twitter account and you can't share those embedded videos I think. 

I'm afraid my burden of proof is somewhat higher than a stranger on a football forum, saying he saw, "a pentagon guy" say it on, "a random Twitter account." 

Meanwhile a representative from the WHO has said as recently as today that they're making serious preparations in case of a chemical attack.

https://www.reuters.com/world/who-says-making-contingency-plans-possible-chemical-assaults-ukraine-2022-04-07/

[CB Fry]

Jonnyboy's sources are always good for a giggle so let's hope he comes up trumps with a link in a bit.

The perfect combination of smug "I'm too clever to believe the mainstream meeeeja" routine with posting up links to the absolute horseshit dregs of the Internet.

[Jonnyboy]

33 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

I thought the story was Putin saying there were labs in Ukraine backed by USA , suggesting a source of any chemical weapons would be the Ukranians , Biden called them out as laying the groundwork for Russia to use chemical weapons and blame Ukraine/USA as per dead civilians found left in the road / mass graves when Russian troops retreated.

Likewise mentioning weaponry from China was also meant to make China think twice if they were thinking of it !!!!

Exactly, the news headlines roll the story and the Chinese may or may not be affected by such accusations. 

In the meantime, most people believe its already happened. 

Manufacturing consent. 

 

And for Lighthouse and his Reuters link... 

The Who can't be that worried as the article says he statement was issued at a conference in Ukraine! Lol. 

Lets keep looking for Saddam's WMDs because our governments never lie. 

Happy for you to PM me. Don't be a stranger. 

Edited 7 April, 2022 by Jonnyboy
Only 3 posts a day.

[buctootim]

One of the Russian soldiers sent to de-Nazify Ukraine

 

Edited 7 April, 2022 by buctootim

[Tamesaint]

13 hours ago, Dragon_man said:

 

13 hours ago, Dragon_man said:

Though nearly half, 82, either voted against or abstained vs the 93 that voted in favour. Sad state of affairs when so many aren't motivated to act on senseless atrocities against innocent civilians. 

It's what happens if you use your size and wealth to help smaller countries - whether in direct aid or in other areas. America has being buying friendship for years but more recently Russia and China have been getting in on the act. If you are the leader in these post Covid times of a poor third world country and Russia or China come along and offer you money and expertise to build your infrastructure you are not inclined to vote against them at the UN - despite any atrocities that they have committed.

China for example is currently helping out, with loans and expertise, many of the Caribbean countries who have historically been friends / ex colonies of the UK. Many of these have abstained in the voting against Russia as you can see from the countries listed above.  If you reduce foreign aid , as the UK has done, you reduce your influence in the world.

Edited 8 April, 2022 by Tamesaint

[East Kent Saint]

10 hours ago, Jonnyboy said:

Exactly, the news headlines roll the story and the Chinese may or may not be affected by such accusations. 

In the meantime, most people believe its already happened. 

Manufacturing consent. 

 

And for Lighthouse and his Reuters link... 

The Who can't be that worried as the article says he statement was issued at a conference in Ukraine! Lol. 

Lets keep looking for Saddam's WMDs because our governments never lie. 

Happy for you to PM me. Don't be a stranger. 

It's always pays to read more than the headline , the following article usually dosen't fully support the headline !

Yes WMD and war on terrorism came back to haunt the west , all dodgy regimes have since branded any opposition as terrorists and Russia etc use the WMD excuse as well .

[badgerx16]

56 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

It's what happens if you use your size and wealth to help smaller countries - whether in direct aid or in other areas. America has being buying friendship for years but more recently Russia and China have been getting in on the act. If you are the leader in these post Covid times of a poor third world country and Russia or China come along and offer you money and expertise to build your infrastructure you are not inclined to vote against them at the UN - despite any atrocities that they have committed.

China for example is currently helping out, with loans and expertise, many of the Caribbean countries who have historically been friends / ex colonies of the UK. Many of these have abstained in the voting against Russia as you can see from the countries listed above.  If you reduce foreign aid , as the UK has done, you reduce your influence in the world.

Indeed, plus Belarus, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan are all still de-facto Russian territories.

[farawaysaint]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

Indeed, plus Belarus, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan are all still de-facto Russian territories.

Bit unfair on Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan who are maintaining sanctions despite massive Russian pressure last I saw and refusing to recognise the DPR and LPR. 

None of the CAR countries are de-facto Russian territories but they do have large economic ties to Russia including thousands of citizens who work in Russia and send money back.  It's a rather difficult position to be in I imagine.

[buctootim]

1 minute ago, farawaysaint said:

Bit unfair on Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan who are maintaining sanctions despite massive Russian pressure last I saw and refusing to recognise the DPR and LPR. 

None of the CAR countries are de-facto Russian territories but they do have large economic ties to Russia including thousands of citizens who work in Russia and send money back.  It's a rather difficult position to be in I imagine.

Indeed, and geographically sandwiched between Russia and China too.  I was really surprised to see last week they have held meetings with both the UK and US on closer ties and co-operation 

https://thediplomat.com/2022/04/kazakhstan-diplomatic-blitz-in-europe-amid-war-in-ukraine/

[Weston Super Saint]

Not one mention of the alleged murder of Russian soldiers (once captured), by what is to be believed are Ukrainian soldiers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61025388

Before the stupid jump in, no, this is not an attempt to justify Russian atrocities, merely pointing out that war tends to lead to terrible events being carried out by both sides.

As someone has already pointed out, the first causaly of war is innocence.

[Whitey Grandad]

5 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Not one mention of the alleged murder of Russian soldiers (once captured), by what is to be believed are Ukrainian soldiers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61025388

Before the stupid jump in, no, this is not an attempt to justify Russian atrocities, merely pointing out that war tends to lead to terrible events being carried out by both sides.

As someone has already pointed out, the first causaly of war is innocence.

Murder of Russian soldiers on one hand and murder of Ukrainian civilians on the other.

[badgerx16]

9 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Not one mention of the alleged murder of Russian soldiers (once captured), by what is to be believed are Ukrainian soldiers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61025388

Before the stupid jump in, no, this is not an attempt to justify Russian atrocities, merely pointing out that war tends to lead to terrible events being carried out by both sides.

As someone has already pointed out, the first causaly of war is innocence.

Whilst there is no excuse for that, if proven true, Ukrainian soldiers are seeing their own friends and families targeted directly, and as the Russians withdraw from the North they are finding mass graves and hundreds of murdered non-combatants left lying in the street. Remember, many of the Ukrainian troops were civilians 6 weeks ago.

Edited 8 April, 2022 by badgerx16

[whelk]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Not one mention of the alleged murder of Russian soldiers (once captured), by what is to be believed are Ukrainian soldiers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61025388

Before the stupid jump in, no, this is not an attempt to justify Russian atrocities, merely pointing out that war tends to lead to terrible events being carried out by both sides.

As someone has already pointed out, the first causaly of war is innocence.

There are lots of things not mentioned. Haven’t seen a post about shelling the train station.

War is a bloody business and soldiers soon become anaesthetised to killing. Given the accounts of Russians looting and raping and butchering civilians they are not going to get fair hearings. 

[Weston Super Saint]

58 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Murder of Russian soldiers on one hand and murder of Ukrainian civilians on the other.

Geneva Convention.

[skintsaint]

20 minutes ago, whelk said:

Haven’t seen a post about shelling the train station.

Saw the video of that, pretty horrific although was on MSM, so probably all actors.

[Mystic Force]

Ukrainians soldiers killing people who surrendered is bad, Russians invading someone else's country, rapping and murdering civilians is worse. Ukraine is at least not saying its justified or refusing to acknowledge it could be happening. Russian has taken no responsibility and even encouraged this behavior because it thinks its actions are justified because they are all "Nazis"