Russia

[Mystic Force]

50 minutes ago, whelk said:

Try going back and read what was posted. Riddled with people like you posting about sanctions being worthless, NATO scared, inevitable invasion once breezed through Ukraine and NATO wouldn’t respond. Russian elite soldiers with best weapons would walk over the west’s slimmed down military. Like I said horseshit. No one was saying they wouldn’t bombard cities. That is a world of difference from controlling them. 

I also remember those who went too far the other way saying that they would never dare to do anything. Sanctions and Liz Truss stern words would stop them. I thought that Putin could do it. I did not think that Ukraine would have been so successful at resisting them or Russia so willing to cause mass casualties in the full view of the world. I think there was a genuine chance that NATO might have backed down from defending a member state as a matter of expediency in the initial phases of this. But with the success Ukraine has shown in resisting there is no way that NATO would not only defend any and all territory they would clearly win. IF part of the goal of Russia was to make NATO think twice about defending members on it eastern edge there is no doubt now they would be fully committed.

I am not sure how this ends without regime change otherwise it just grinds on and I do not see Putin going soon or willingly. Maybe it will end up like a Korean Demilitarize zone with a ceasefire not a peace treaty and the possibility of hostilities resuming once the ammo is replenished.

[farawaysaint]

4 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

 

Look what that Russian UN Twitter account just posted 🤣

Accusing the US of creating Corona in Ukrainian bio labs.

Edited 18 March, 2022 by farawaysaint

[badgerx16]

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-russia-putin-replaced-staffers-over-fears-poison-him-report-2022-3?r=US&IR=T

[badgerx16]

8 minutes ago, farawaysaint said:

Look what that Russian UN Twitter account just posted 🤣

Accusing the US of creating Corona in Ukrainian bio labs.

They said this last week when they were pushing the bio-lab meme. The labs are old facilities where the US have been assisting in work on threat mitigation technologies.

Edited 18 March, 2022 by badgerx16

[kyle04]

20 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

They said this last week when they were pushing the bio-lab meme and Alexei76 supported it.

 Their disinformation strategy is as poor as their military one, next will be that Macdonalds (funded secretly by the CIA) were planning to make all of Russia morbidly obese by upping the fat content in their otherwise healthy food.

Edited 18 March, 2022 by kyle04

[Picard]

Do we actually know if there were bio labs in Ukraine or not?

[Jimmy_D]

2 minutes ago, Picard said:

Do we actually know if there were bio labs in Ukraine or not?

Almost certainly. Almost every developed country in the world has biolabs for the purpose of researching defence against bioweapons. It's extremely unlikely, however, that they're being used to research bioweapon technology that's ever intended to be deployed in battle.

[badgerx16]

38 minutes ago, Picard said:

Do we actually know if there were bio labs in Ukraine or not?

There is a link earlier on this thread which Alexei76 posted that goes to a Department of Defense document about the threat mitigation projects - not what he thought it would say.

 

EDIT:

https://sam.gov/opp/0bd0de5ba5f94fc29d85b37a0a4b253b/view

Edited 18 March, 2022 by badgerx16

[Lighthouse]

As with all good conspiracies, take a half truth and fill in the gaps with your imagination. I’m sure there are bio-labs in Ukraine, as I’m sure that jet fuel really can’t melt steel beams.

[Warriorsaint]

52 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

 Their disinformation strategy is as poor as their military one, next will be that Macdonalds (funded secretly by the CIA) were planning to make all of Russia morbidly obese by upping the fat content in their otherwise healthy food.

Worked for Brexit 

[farawaysaint]

1 hour ago, Picard said:

Do we actually know if there were bio labs in Ukraine or not?

The US has publically admitted that they had joint ventures with Ukraine yes.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/ukraine-biolabs-fox-tucker-carlson-tulsi-gabbard-b2039117.html

Do I believe they were secret coronavirus biological weapons research rather than good old American capitalism taking advantage of cheap Ukrainian infrastructure and labour… no.

Edited 18 March, 2022 by farawaysaint

[AlexLaw76]

When Russia leave what is left of Ukraine's major cities...

It maybe wont stop there...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/03/14/neo-nazi-ukraine-war/

[badgerx16]

16 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

When Russia leave what is left of Ukraine's major cities...

It maybe wont stop there...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/03/14/neo-nazi-ukraine-war/

"The extremists who successfully make it to Ukraine could return home with new weapons and combat experience under their belts — or stay in Ukraine, where they can further influence their countrymen online."

 

Or.......stay in Ukraine as fertiliser for sunflowers.

[Lighthouse]

A fifth general killed apparently. Is there a sticker album where you get to collect all 20?

[buctootim]

6 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

A fifth general killed apparently. Is there a sticker album where you get to collect all 20?

At least one of them was blown up so it might have to be a jigsaw puzzle instead

[badgerx16]

Good job they are not coming back down any time soon;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60804949

"Russian cosmonauts have arrived at the International Space Station wearing Ukrainian colours, in what appears to be a statement opposing the invasion."

[whelk]

Words fail me for these evil cunts

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-human-traffickers-preying-on-refugees-fleeing-conflict-12569986

[badgerx16]

So now the Russians have reverted to their default plan B - 'liberating' people by bombing their cities back to the stone age.

[skintsaint]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

So now the Russians have reverted to their default plan B - 'liberating' people by bombing their cities back to the stone age.

Well this is how they left Grozny. Expect Ukrainian cities to look similar soon.

 

[aintforever]

8 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

So now the Russians have reverted to their default plan B - 'liberating' people by bombing their cities back to the stone age.

And China just watch on and all they can say is that sanctions are outrageous. You can’t help think that WW3 is inevitable.

[Lighthouse]

9 minutes ago, aintforever said:

And China just watch on and all they can say is that sanctions are outrageous. You can’t help think that WW3 is inevitable.

Why, what’s China’s motivation to escalate this situation? What is there in Ukraine that China would want to go to war with a nuclear superpower over?

[aintforever]

5 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Why, what’s China’s motivation to escalate this situation? What is there in Ukraine that China would want to go to war with a nuclear superpower over?

China could join in the sanctions so that they have a much greater effect, yet they choose to stand by Russia. As long as they have allies there is only so much sanctions can achieve. 

[Lighthouse]

14 minutes ago, aintforever said:

China could join in the sanctions so that they have a much greater effect, yet they choose to stand by Russia. As long as they have allies there is only so much sanctions can achieve. 

None of that has anything to do with what you just said; why would China want to launch a full scale military assault against NATO?

[aintforever]

9 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

None of that has anything to do with what you just said; why would China want to launch a full scale military assault against NATO?

My point is that if sanctions don’t stop Putin it will inevitably have to be war, then it is WW3 regardless of who China side with.

[sadoldgit]

5 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Well this is how they left Grozny. Expect Ukrainian cities to look similar soon.

 

Lesia Vasylenko spoke very well on QT last Thursday and was very gracious about the sport her country is getting, but you can sense the frustration that that the rest of the world is just standing back and letting this happen. Sanctions are all well and good but are doing nothing to stop the butchery. I completely understand the worry about starting a major war but at what point are we actually going to say enough is enough? Putin ant stupid enough to go to war with NATO but he also knows that we are not going to use nukes and are going to sit back unless he attacks a NATO country, allowing him to do what he likes elsewhere. Perhaps it is time to call his bluff and bring in a NFZ over Ukrainian skies now. He has no right there anyway and we have enforced these before elsewhere  on humanitarian grounds. It is sickening to stand by and watch this happen. How would we feel if  our homes were being reduced to rubble and no one came to help us? 

[Weston Super Saint]

11 minutes ago, aintforever said:

My point is that if sanctions don’t stop Putin it will inevitably have to be war, then it is WW3 regardless of who China side with.

Your point is absolute nonsense.

No matter what China think of the situation - if you ever thought they would condemn Russia given their history with Hong Kong and their intentions with Taiwan, then you're madder than a box of frogs - they cannot possibly replace the lost revenue from the sanctions imposed by the rest of the world.  Economically, Russia is fucked for a decade or more now.  China will use that to their advantage and pillage whatever Russia can produce at knock down prices to keep feeding the global consumerist economy.  It suits China far more for Russia to continue the war and therefore keep the sanctions imposed for as long as possible.

If sanctions don't stop Putin (and the Ukrainian forces also fail), then Putin gains control of the wasteland he will create in the process.  No one is going to go to war against Russia because of Ukraine.  I thought this would have been obvious by now.

[Weston Super Saint]

6 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Lesia Vasylenko spoke very well on QT last Thursday and was very gracious about the sport her country is getting, but you can sense the frustration that that the rest of the world is just standing back and letting this happen. Sanctions are all well and good but are doing nothing to stop the butchery. I completely understand the worry about starting a major war but at what point are we actually going to say enough is enough? Putin ant stupid enough to go to war with NATO but he also knows that we are not going to use nukes and are going to sit back unless he attacks a NATO country, allowing him to do what he likes elsewhere. Perhaps it is time to call his bluff and bring in a NFZ over Ukrainian skies now. He has no right there anyway and we have enforced these before elsewhere  on humanitarian grounds. It is sickening to stand by and watch this happen. How would we feel if  our homes were being reduced to rubble and no one came to help us? 

Whilst Putin has no right to be there, what right does the rest of the world have to enforce a no fly zone?  What legal basis are you using to justify this?

[badgerx16]

9 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

 Perhaps it is time to call his bluff and bring in a NFZ over Ukrainian skies now.

NFZ also stops the Ukrainian airforce, stops their drones, and doesn't stop Russia's major weapon systems - artillery and ground launched missiles such as Grad.

Edited 20 March, 2022 by badgerx16

[Lighthouse]

9 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Your point is absolute nonsense.

No matter what China think of the situation - if you ever thought they would condemn Russia given their history with Hong Kong and their intentions with Taiwan, then you're madder than a box of frogs - they cannot possibly replace the lost revenue from the sanctions imposed by the rest of the world.  Economically, Russia is fucked for a decade or more now.  China will use that to their advantage and pillage whatever Russia can produce at knock down prices to keep feeding the global consumerist economy.  It suits China far more for Russia to continue the war and therefore keep the sanctions imposed for as long as possible.

If sanctions don't stop Putin (and the Ukrainian forces also fail), then Putin gains control of the wasteland he will create in the process.  No one is going to go to war against Russia because of Ukraine.  I thought this would have been obvious by now.

This is basically on the money. aint, your point is a non-sequitur. There's no appetite from anyone for a military conflict here, except Putin. A begging, desperate Russia, whilst also maintaining trade with the West and avoiding conflict, suits China just fine. 

[revolution saint]

I’m sure someone can tell me but why isn’t a UN peacekeeping force being considered? That could at least help with humanitarian corridors and might make Russian military think twice about some of the shit they’re doing. It’s a decent way of helping without directly engaging against Russian troops.

[benjii]

1 minute ago, revolution saint said:

I’m sure someone can tell me but why isn’t a UN peacekeeping force being considered? That could at least help with humanitarian corridors and might make Russian military think twice about some of the shit they’re doing. It’s a decent way of helping without directly engaging against Russian troops.

Because Russia can veto it?

The UN is fucking useless in genuine war situations, as has been shown numerous times over recent decades.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, revolution saint said:

I’m sure someone can tell me but why isn’t a UN peacekeeping force being considered? That could at least help with humanitarian corridors and might make Russian military think twice about some of the shit they’re doing. It’s a decent way of helping without directly engaging against Russian troops.

Because Russia is one of the permanent members of the UN and any UN action needs 100% approval from all members.

I suspect that Russia isn't going to ratify any action from the UN against it's 'special military operations'  

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

I’m sure someone can tell me but why isn’t a UN peacekeeping force being considered? That could at least help with humanitarian corridors and might make Russian military think twice about some of the shit they’re doing. It’s a decent way of helping without directly engaging against Russian troops.

Name the permanent nations of the UN - that can veto ideas like this.

 

[revolution saint]

2 minutes ago, benjii said:

Because Russia can veto it?

The UN is fucking useless in genuine war situations, as has been shown numerous times over recent decades.

Yeah, figured it was that and does show up a weakness in the UN governance.  

[aintforever]

37 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

This is basically on the money. aint, your point is a non-sequitur. There's no appetite from anyone for a military conflict here, except Putin. A begging, desperate Russia, whilst also maintaining trade with the West and avoiding conflict, suits China just fine. 

I disagree, I think sooner or later Russia will have to be confronted. I guess we will have to wait and see. Hopefully something happens internally and Putin is done away with, that’s the only decent way out I can see.

[Lighthouse]

4 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I disagree, I think sooner or later Russia will have to be confronted

You still haven’t said why and on what grounds. I think it’s fairly apparent now that he doesn’t have the capacity to attack any nato territory, the war in Ukraine will grind on until Russia has loose control over an unknown amount of land and urban areas. Russia aren’t going to be launching into some massive arms race, they’ve barely got the budget to maintain their current inventory.

 

And you still haven’t said why China wants a military conflict with the west.

[AlexLaw76]

24 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I disagree, I think sooner or later Russia will have to be confronted. I guess we will have to wait and see. Hopefully something happens internally and Putin is done away with, that’s the only decent way out I can see.

We are confronting them.  They are being sanctioned back to the stone age.

[kyle04]

I think Zalensky's repeated call for a NFZ may be an attempt to draw NATO into direct conflict with Russia, and to keep Putin guessing to an extent. As badgerx16 pointed out, the damage to cities is largely being done with artillery and multiple rocket launchers, of which Russia has masses. The Ukrainians have taken out some of this arsenal but nowhere near enough. There were reports today of many civilians being virtually kidnapped and sent to Russia, of women being gang raped then executed by the Russians. Do you think Putin gives the slightest damn about any loss of life, yet alone if his own population can't buy a Macdonalds right now? Forget war crimes trials, they're never going to happen and may take a decade to organize anyway.

If the west are unwilling to implement a NFZ, supply MiG planes etc we must continue supplying as much lethal aid as possible, and maybe stop telling Putin what we're sending every time. A US aircraft carrier appearing in the Black Sea on "excercises" wouldn't go amiss either!

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, aintforever said:

I disagree, I think sooner or later Russia will have to be confronted. I guess we will have to wait and see. Hopefully something happens internally and Putin is done away with, that’s the only decent way out I can see.

Behave!

2 simple questions :

1. What does NATO stand to gain from entering into a war with Russia over Ukraine?

2. What does NATO stand to lose by entering into a war with Russia?

I'll bet you don't answer either of them...

[sadoldgit]

3 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

NFZ also stops the Ukrainian airforce, stops their drones, and doesn't stop Russia's major weapon systems - artillery and ground launched missiles such as Grad.

So why are the Ukrainians so keen on it?

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

So why are the Ukrainians so keen on it?

It's part of their game - it forces NATO to do as much as they can short of a NFZ. Zelenskyy and his Ministers know that this is a NATO red line, the optics of an F-35 or Typhoon actively engaging an SU25 or MiG-29 that has deliberately entered restricted airspace will give Putin all the "proof" he needs to support his maniacal conspiracy theories about Western expansionism into Eastern Europe.

[sadoldgit]

9 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

It's part of their game - it forces NATO to do as much as they can short of a NFZ. Zelenskyy and his Ministers know that this is a NATO red line, the optics of an F-35 or Typhoon actively engaging an SU25 or MiG-29 that has deliberately entered restricted airspace will give Putin all the "proof" he needs to support his maniacal conspiracy theories about Western expansionism into Eastern Europe.

It’s hardly expansionism if they are defending a soveriegn country being razed by Russian expansionism. It really doesn’t matter what Putin says. It is all about what he is doing. Surely it is time he is stopped? This has been going on for years and is not a game. Innocent people are being butchered daily by a regime that is out of control and is threatening to use nuclear weapons. At what point would you be happy to say enough is enough and we need to do more to stop it?

[Lighthouse]

11 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

It’s hardly expansionism if they are defending a soveriegn country being razed by Russian expansionism. It really doesn’t matter what Putin says. It is all about what he is doing. Surely it is time he is stopped? This has been going on for years and is not a game. Innocent people are being butchered daily by a regime that is out of control and is threatening to use nuclear weapons. At what point would you be happy to say enough is enough and we need to do more to stop it?

We covered this a few days ago, if you missed it….

On 17/03/2022 at 21:52, Lighthouse said:

Firstly there's the needless loss of NATO lives in a conflict which isn't really anything to do with us, despite Putin's assertions. Secondly there's the massive logistical nightmare of having to defend a front from Estonia down to the Bosphorus. Thirdly there's threat of him lashing out at civilians in NATO countries. He could launch conventional weapons at populated areas or even shoot down a commercial airliner.

 

[badgerx16]

13 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

It’s hardly expansionism if they are defending a soveriegn country being razed by Russian expansionism. It really doesn’t matter what Putin says. It is all about what he is doing. Surely it is time he is stopped? This has been going on for years and is not a game. Innocent people are being butchered daily by a regime that is out of control and is threatening to use nuclear weapons. At what point would you be happy to say enough is enough and we need to do more to stop it?

I suggest you pose your questions to those who can actually make the relevant decisions : the NATO politicians and Generals who don't want a NFZ. Surely they are the ones in possession of the data and intelligence on which actions can be based. They stated before the war started that they would not put troops into Ukraine, whether that encouraged Putin or not I don't know, and they have consistently continued to maintain that position in the 3 weeks since the 'Special Military Operation' kicked off. Remember, Putin's brain is wired differently.

If you want my opinion, the West should have brought in the sanctions when Crimea was annexed.

Is it just because this is happening in Europe that you think NATO should act ? Why did they not put a NFZ over Syria ? Or intervene in the Armenia / Azerbaijan conflict ?

Edited 20 March, 2022 by badgerx16

[buctootim]

 

 

Amazing nerves to perform in front of that many people at that age. 

[Lighthouse]

I don't know if you're more or less scared of stuff at that age. I'm in my thirties and sh*t my pants sat in front of a two person job interview panel.

[buctootim]

33 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I don't know if you're more or less scared of stuff at that age. I'm in my thirties and sh*t my pants sat in front of a two person job interview panel.

Try singing to them next time. It might relax you   

[whelk]

Didn’t realise South Africa were such cunts

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/21/africa/africa-leaders-ukraine-response-cmd-intl/index.html

[kyle04]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Didn’t realise South Africa were such cunts

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/21/africa/africa-leaders-ukraine-response-cmd-intl/index.html

Might have something to do with the $650M of SA exports per year to Russia, or it just could be that Cyril Ramaposa is indeed, a cunt.

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

Didn’t realise South Africa were such cunts

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/21/africa/africa-leaders-ukraine-response-cmd-intl/index.html

https://youtu.be/-LBCkW0kz2E