Russia

[Warriorsaint]

3 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Depends on their vaccine status.  

Or is that not a thing anymore?

220,000 cases a day now you know. Next spike incoming.

[Lighthouse]

4 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Depends on their vaccine status.  

Or is that not a thing anymore?

I love your posts, I don’t think even you have any idea what point you’re trying to make.

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

I love your posts, I don’t think even you have any idea what point you’re trying to make.

Will you be letting un-vax'd Ukrainians stay at yours?

[Lighthouse]

53 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Will you be letting un-vax'd Ukrainians stay at yours?

Unfortunate though that may be, and I hope they are eligible for vaccines on the NHS, it doesn’t quite stack up people being homeless and alone in a foreign country, because they’ve fled a war zone. I’m not sure why that needs explaining.

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Unfortunate though that may be, and I hope they are eligible for vaccines on the NHS, it doesn’t quite stack up people being homeless and alone in a foreign country, because they’ve fled a war zone. I’m not sure why that needs explaining.

not sure if that was a no, but will take it as such - shame

[bpsaint]

10 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Anybody going to take in a refugee?

 

9 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Rule 1?

 

[buctootim]

I just got this email from a long time friend, a medical doctor in Russia, who has always been upbeat and positive. Ukraine might be bombed but it seems it's Russia which is broken. 

 

"It’s difficult for me to say anything certain these days.  

At the start of this war, we collapsed as a nation.  There is no united Russian nation now and probably never will be.  The crack that went through Russian society during the annexation of Crimea has now turned into a rift, and this abyss can no longer be plugged.

There are two peoples inside my country.  One lives with the feeling that the end of the world has come and does not know how to deal with it, while the other one has ordinary life and worries only about prices.  This is not yet a civil war, but the thickness of the blank wall between these peoples can already be envied by Berlin.

The absence of a general popular reaction to the terrible evil that the Putin and government are doing means only one thing: the Russian nation has no backbone, and it cannot stand without support.  The only thing holding her back is the force of inertia.

What unites us all after the moral catastrophe that occurred?  What is now common between a resident of Krasnodar and a resident of Khabarovsk?  What will make them stand under a common flag?  What will keep all these people in a single eggshell when this power is inevitably overturned and when everyone who has eyes is horrified by what they are left with? It seems nothing.

The Ukrainian nation is now truly born under the bullets of Putin.  Ours is dying.  Putin confident that he is a collector of Russian lands, that he is able to take and shove back into the USSR those who escaped by force from there, and recreate this monstrous Frankenstein. In fact, over all the years of his reign, he has achieved only one thing - truly and finally  destroyed Russia.

It is not yet visible to the eye but it will certainly become"

[AlexLaw76]

16 minutes ago, buctootim said:

I just got this email from a long time friend, a medical doctor in Russia, who has always been upbeat and positive. Ukraine might be bombed but it seems it's Russia which is broken. 

 

"It’s difficult for me to say anything certain these days.  

At the start of this war, we collapsed as a nation.  There is no united Russian nation now and probably never will be.  The crack that went through Russian society during the annexation of Crimea has now turned into a rift, and this abyss can no longer be plugged.

There are two peoples inside my country.  One lives with the feeling that the end of the world has come and does not know how to deal with it, while the other one has ordinary life and worries only about prices.  This is not yet a civil war, but the thickness of the blank wall between these peoples can already be envied by Berlin.

The absence of a general popular reaction to the terrible evil that the Putin and government are doing means only one thing: the Russian nation has no backbone, and it cannot stand without support.  The only thing holding her back is the force of inertia.

What unites us all after the moral catastrophe that occurred?  What is now common between a resident of Krasnodar and a resident of Khabarovsk?  What will make them stand under a common flag?  What will keep all these people in a single eggshell when this power is inevitably overturned and when everyone who has eyes is horrified by what they are left with? It seems nothing.

The Ukrainian nation is now truly born under the bullets of Putin.  Ours is dying.  Putin confident that he is a collector of Russian lands, that he is able to take and shove back into the USSR those who escaped by force from there, and recreate this monstrous Frankenstein. In fact, over all the years of his reign, he has achieved only one thing - truly and finally  destroyed Russia.

It is not yet visible to the eye but it will certainly become"

Some people felt hopeless like that when we invaded Iraq! Instead, Blair got re-elected and eventually given a Knighthood. That does not excuse what Russia are doing, bit proves that attention spans are very short - amongst western communities at least.

A small lunatic fringe felt like that with Brexit FFS!

But generally, Russia will have changed forever (and not for the better) after this conflict/war/Invasion

[buctootim]

19 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Some people felt hopeless like that when we invaded Iraq! Instead, Blair got re-elected and eventually given a Knighthood. That does not excuse what Russia are doing, bit proves that attention spans are very short - amongst western communities at least.

A small lunatic fringe felt like that with Brexit FFS!

But generally, Russia will have changed forever (and not for the better) after this conflict/war/Invasion

 

I'm not sure that's true in Russia's case. In part the reason for the lack of substantial opposition in country is that people dont feel it is possible to overthrow this regime and are instead leaving. There has been a brain drain over the past 20 years - Russia's brightest and best young people are voting with their feet.

It really does feel like a country in terminal decline, exactly because its not possible to ditch the source of the problem.  

Edited 14 March, 2022 by buctootim

[Manuel]

13 minutes ago, buctootim said:

I'm not sure that's true in Russia's case. In part the reason for the lack of substantial opposition in country is that people dont feel it is possible to overthrow this regime and are instead leaving. There has been a brain drain over the past 20 years - Russia's brightest and best young people are voting with their feet.

It really does feel like a country in terminal decline, exactly because its not possible to ditch the source of the problem.  

I read somewhere recently that Russia has an under-population problem which may have contributed to the timing of the attack.  Like most modern countries it is accumulating an increasing older population, but those of fighting age appear to be diminishing, presumably due to declining birth rates over the past few decades.  Add to that younger people choosing to leave, perhaps to an increasingly attractive West, and Putin's losing a potential fighting force year on year.  

[Lighthouse]

30 minutes ago, buctootim said:

I'm not sure that's true in Russia's case. In part the reason for the lack of substantial opposition in country is that people dont feel it is possible to overthrow this regime and are instead leaving. There has been a brain drain over the past 20 years - Russia's brightest and best young people are voting with their feet.

It really does feel like a country in terminal decline, exactly because its not possible to ditch the source of the problem.  

Putin is so obsessed with being seen as a global superpower that he can’t accept the world has changed. A declining, ageing population, a stagnant economy which is largely dependant on primary industries, increasingly isolated from the biggest trading partners and the only friend they’ve got is another self-serving dictatorship who’re going to buttf*ck them for whatever natural resources they need.

Aside from having a big pile of nukes (in who knows what condition) they aren’t a superpower by any real metric.

[kyle04]

You'e only got to look at the countrys that are supporting Russia at the moment, China (passively so far), Iran, Belurus, Venezuela, Brazil,Syria, India sort of, and probably North Korea. Not only that, after just over 2 weeks Russia are asking for military assistance from their "allies", this is a country that has reportedly 900,000 active soldiers, 12,000 tanks and God knows what else in it's arsenal (yes we know about the 6000 nukes). Putins cunning plan has gone tits up, I think he's in real trouble.

[buctootim]

54 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Putin is so obsessed with being seen as a global superpower that he can’t accept the world has changed. A declining, ageing population, a stagnant economy which is largely dependant on primary industries, increasingly isolated from the biggest trading partners and the only friend they’ve got is another self-serving dictatorship who’re going to buttf*ck them for whatever natural resources they need.

Aside from having a big pile of nukes (in who knows what condition) they aren’t a superpower by any real metric.

Absolutely, don't disagree with any of that.  

[whelk]

2 hours ago, buctootim said:

I'm not sure that's true in Russia's case. In part the reason for the lack of substantial opposition in country is that people dont feel it is possible to overthrow this regime and are instead leaving. There has been a brain drain over the past 20 years - Russia's brightest and best young people are voting with their feet.

It really does feel like a country in terminal decline, exactly because its not possible to ditch the source of the problem.  

And brain drain more so now than ever https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-motherland-faces-serious-brain-drain-as-liberal-russians-flee-putins-persecution-12565229

[whelk]

1 hour ago, kyle04 said:

You'e only got to look at the countrys that are supporting Russia at the moment, China (passively so far), Iran, Belurus, Venezuela, Brazil,Syria, India sort of, and probably North Korea. Not only that, after just over 2 weeks Russia are asking for military assistance from their "allies", this is a country that has reportedly 900,000 active soldiers, 12,000 tanks and God knows what else in it's arsenal (yes we know about the 6000 nukes). Putins cunning plan has gone tits up, I think he's in real trouble.

It is hard to know what to believe and what is misinformation. Lovely story to put out that need help with equipment from other countries to make us all feel good about how fcked Russia are. I know I’m a sucker for it. 

[whelk]

Wise old bird that Mark Twain

 

[buctootim]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

And brain drain more so now than ever https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-motherland-faces-serious-brain-drain-as-liberal-russians-flee-putins-persecution-12565229

I imagine it's speeded up since the invasion f'sure but its been going on since basically Putin dropped his western democrat act in the late 90s. My friends son came to England six years ago and never went back, now works as an qualified engineer. His new wife who he met here is also Russian, a brilliant economist, did something very similar.     

Edited 14 March, 2022 by buctootim

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, buctootim said:

I imagine it's speeded up since the invasion f'sure but its been going on since basically Putin dropped his western democrat act in the late 90s. My friends son came to England six years ago and never went back, now works as an qualified engineer. His new wife who he met here is also Russian, a brilliant economist, did something very similar.     

By contrast I have a family member who worked at a place called KAUST up until three years ago. Basically, it's a large, multinational university complex just North of Jeddah. I went to visit once and it's a seriously impressive place, basically a small town they've built around a large, scientific research facility. The leaders (It's named after King Abdullah) have chucked some serious money into catching up with the 21st century, attracting expertise from around the world and educating their own best and brightest. Added to this they're hosting major golf tournaments and now a Formula 1 and Formula E race, as well as the whole Newcastle saga. They've very recently allowed women to drive cars and even appointed a women's council (although it is rather hilariously just a group of old men).

 

For all the legitimate criticism of Saudi, it is a place taking baby steps in the right direction. They've realised they can't go on forever digging holes and hoping to find brown goo (as Monty Burns would say). They're working hard to develop and retain their own talent and expertise, in much the same way as The UAE has branched out into travel, tourism, banking, research etc. Russia can't seem to see any of this. These are the places which will gradually begin to overhaul Russia in terms of global appeal and social direction. Europe and North America are already long gone.

[Jimmy_D]

3 hours ago, whelk said:

It is hard to know what to believe and what is misinformation. Lovely story to put out that need help with equipment from other countries to make us all feel good about how fcked Russia are. I know I’m a sucker for it. 

You can say this much, if Putin planned for this to happen like this, it doesn’t seem like it was a very good plan.

It’s already gone on long enough that, even with a well planned and executed logistics operation, Russia’s forces would have been stretched, and all signs point to it being a long way short of that.

Russia way well still have enough forces to claim a military victory over Ukraine, but it’s looking more and more likely to be a Pyrrhic victory at best, leaving Russia bogged down with massive sanctions and a drawn out guerrilla war, even if they claim to control the country.

[kyle04]

Russia may well end up occupying the major cities, as his army continues to be picked off, I wonder how long it will be before we see Nazi style executions, or more likely arrests and disappearances in occupied areas. Putin now seems to want to stretch his resources even further with attacks on the western part of Ukraine, but the snow will thaw soon and give rise to "Martial Mud" which will mean more convoys stuck and open to attack. Claims from either side will vary, but I think it's generally accepted that at present Russia has lost well over 1200 pieces of equipment and over 10000 men, in a little over 2 weeks. HIs army are exhausted and demoralized, generals are at the frontline, (3 of which have been killed), unheard of in modern warfare. Kyiv may well become the Ukrainians Stalingrad before it falls. Whatever the outcome Putin will claim victory and objectives achieved, even as his own country decays around him.

[buctootim]

Ukrainian farmer goes all in 

Edited 14 March, 2022 by buctootim

[sadoldgit]

Interesting Panorama earlier tonight looked at where Abramovitch  got his wealth from and how he ended up looking after finances for Yeltsin then Putin. It will come as no surprise that his fortune came about as a result of high level corruption.

[Turkish]

On 13/03/2022 at 12:01, Lighthouse said:

Anybody going to take in a refugee?

Already on it 

[badgerx16]

[badgerx16]

The Prime Ministers of Poland, Slovenia, and the Czech Republic are going to go to Kyiv to meet President Zelensky. Unluckily, as it is an EU visit, Boris can't be invited.

[bpsaint]

The US threatening China with sanctions should they help Russia with military equipment…what exactly can they hit one of the largest economies in the world with that would make any kind of difference to them?

[buctootim]

2 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

The US threatening China with sanctions should they help Russia with military equipment…what exactly can they hit one of the largest economies in the world with that would make any kind of difference to them?

Buying less of their stuff. The EU and US account for two thirds of their exports 

[whelk]

26 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

The US threatening China with sanctions should they help Russia with military equipment…what exactly can they hit one of the largest economies in the world with that would make any kind of difference to them?

You think the Chinese don’t care about the West’s market?

[whelk]

44 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Buying less of their stuff. The EU and US account for two thirds of their exports 

Indeed. Every company is aware of its brand and can easily make a case of buying Huawei and other Chinese shite is supporting bombing hospitals if they dare help them out

[whelk]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

Already on it 

On a serious note though what guardrails will be in place to stop weirdos and perverts signing up?

[Millbrook Saint]

Say what you want about Trump and mostly he is a dick, but he called out the Germans for relying on gas from russia and they laughed at him, not so funny now is it, he also called out the West's reliance on China and has been pretty much ignored.

We need to start moving away from the reliance on both these countries, once this is over russia will just sell gas to china, who will be using money made from the west to pay for it, which in turn will just go back towards building russias' military again.

[Lighthouse]

China is currently dealing with a massive Covid outbreak which will give their economy a bit of a knock in itself. I’m not sure they’re going to pick Putin as their hill to die on.

[whelk]

9 minutes ago, Millbrook Saint said:

Say what you want about Trump and mostly he is a dick, but he called out the Germans for relying on gas from russia and they laughed at him, not so funny now is it, he also called out the West's reliance on China and has been pretty much ignored.

We need to start moving away from the reliance on both these countries, once this is over russia will just sell gas to china, who will be using money made from the west to pay for it, which in turn will just go back towards building russias' military again.

You are impressed with that bit of wisdom? Not exactly insightful and controversial opinion. Still Trump fans will always find something 

[aintforever]

15 minutes ago, Millbrook Saint said:

Say what you want about Trump and mostly he is a dick, but he called out the Germans for relying on gas from russia and they laughed at him, not so funny now is it, he also called out the West's reliance on China and has been pretty much ignored.

We need to start moving away from the reliance on both these countries, once this is over russia will just sell gas to china, who will be using money made from the west to pay for it, which in turn will just go back towards building russias' military again.

The Green Party have been saying we rely too much on foreign oil and gas for decades, I don't see why the orange bell-end should get any credit for stating the obvious.

 

 

 

[Millbrook Saint]

16 minutes ago, whelk said:

You are impressed with that bit of wisdom? Not exactly insightful and controversial opinion. Still Trump fans will always find something 

that bit of wisdom was laughed at by German diplomats when he tried to warn them and I don't see any leaders of any political party doing, or suggesting anything about our reliance on china/russia, the greens don't count as they probably want to stop us using any gas whatsoever and all sit around in jumpers to keep warm.

I never once said I was a Trump fan, I just don't let the fact I dislike someone stop me from listening to what they have to say and making my own mind up.  Unlike you who it would seem just writes off anything someone says because you dislike them.  Or is it anyone on the right is an idiot, whilst anyone on the left is an educated well informed person, seems like bigotry to me.

[manji]

A couple of days before we played Newcastle the Saudis beheaded 81 “ criminals” in one day. Yet Ukrainian Fascists murdered 15,000 ethnic Russians in the Donbass since the fascist coup in 2014.

[sadoldgit]

As within the EU, it was probably expected that closer economic ties would lead to a better relationship between Russia and the West, after all, it has worked for Germany and France. Unfortunately Putin has changed from someone we can do business with into a crazed, paranoid psychopath who seems to have come to believe that doing the best for his country is isolating them from the very markets that could help Russia flourish. Seeking advice from Trump is akin to asking Boris Johnson how to avoid unwanted pregnancies and no matter what happens, the orange one will always frame it in his favour. Anyone who refers to himself as a “stable genius” is clearly anything but. His domestic policies were always about what was best for Trump, as were his foreign policies. Putin wanted Trump in the White House for a reason.

Edited 15 March, 2022 by sadoldgit
Sp

[StDunko]

5 minutes ago, manji said:

A couple of days before we played Newcastle the Saudis beheaded 81 “ criminals” in one day. Yet Ukrainian Fascists murdered 15,000 ethnic Russians in the Donbass since the fascist coup in 2014.

Source?

(Just for your Ukrainian claims, I've seen reliable reports of the Saudi bit).

[Tamesaint]

4 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Seeking advice from Trump is akin to asking Boris Johnson how to avoid unwanted pregnancies and no matter what happens, the orange one will always frame it in his favour. Anyone who refers to himself as a “stable genius” is clearly anything back. His domestic policies were always about what was best for Trump, as were his foreign policies. Putin wanted Trump in the White House for a reason.

Don't worry. Guided "shit for brains" Missile will be on here shortly explaining why he wanks himself stupid over pictures of Trump.

[Manuel]

54 minutes ago, aintforever said:

The Green Party have been saying we rely too much on foreign oil and gas for decades, I don't see why the orange bell-end should get any credit for stating the obvious.

 

 

 

His point was that the US is the main financial investor to NATO.  Germany wasn't paying their fair share and was also funnelling money to Russia, whilst at the same time expecting the US to defend them against Russia.  Been going on for decades of course, but he's the only one I heard bleating on about it.  

[aintforever]

24 minutes ago, Manuel said:

His point was that the US is the main financial investor to NATO.  Germany wasn't paying their fair share and was also funnelling money to Russia, whilst at the same time expecting the US to defend them against Russia.  Been going on for decades of course, but he's the only one I heard bleating on about it.  

The Greens have been bleating on about dependency on fossil fuels for years, at least one good thing to come out of this war should be more investment in renewables. Trump was right in what he said but I'm pretty sure he was just trying to flog more oil and arms to Europe. I doubt he knew what his pal Putin was about to do or has any concerns over the energy security of Europe.

I think we can all understand why the Germans have not spent much on the their military given their history.

Edited 15 March, 2022 by aintforever

[Barsiem]

30 minutes ago, Manuel said:

His point was that the US is the main financial investor to NATO.  Germany wasn't paying their fair share and was also funnelling money to Russia, whilst at the same time expecting the US to defend them against Russia.  Been going on for decades of course, but he's the only one I heard bleating on about it.  

Obama was heavily critical of NATO members not paying 2% of GDP for defence as well tbf.  Not sure about earlier presidents but suspect they would have criticised it as well.  It’s something all NATO members agreed too but very few actually met

[Manuel]

Agree, and I suspect much of Trump's railing at NATO was to attempt to get a financial "good deal" for the US (America first!) as much as for overall global security.  Having said that I have heard him go on about Russia essentially having Germany by the balls by their continuing dependence on Russia for their fuel.  

[Warriorsaint]

23 hours ago, kyle04 said:

You'e only got to look at the countrys that are supporting Russia at the moment, China (passively so far), Iran, Belurus, Venezuela, Brazil,Syria, India sort of, and probably North Korea. Not only that, after just over 2 weeks Russia are asking for military assistance from their "allies", this is a country that has reportedly 900,000 active soldiers, 12,000 tanks and God knows what else in it's arsenal (yes we know about the 6000 nukes). Putins cunning plan has gone tits up, I think he's in real trouble.

Doesn’t matter. If he tips India and China into full support there is nothing the west can do. Stalemate and new cold war.

[Warriorsaint]

53 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

Don't worry. Guided "shit for brains" Missile will be on here shortly explaining why he wanks himself stupid over pictures of Trump.

Hopefully the doublethink will be realised and the russian money allowed to infect our democracy is finally exposed.

Aaron Banks, Farage et all bankrolled by the Russians to be seen as the traitors they are.

[Lighthouse]

5 minutes ago, Warriorsaint said:

Doesn’t matter. If he tips India and China into full support there is nothing the west can do. Stalemate and new cold war.

Why would China or India want that?

[Millbrook Saint]

40 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

As within the EU, it was probably expected that closer economic ties would lead to a better relationship between Russia and the West, after all, it has worked for Germany and France. Unfortunately Putin has changed from someone we can do business with into a crazed, paranoid psychopath who seems to have come to believe that doing the best for his country is isolating them from the very markets that could help Russia flourish. Seeking advice from Trump is akin to asking Boris Johnson how to avoid unwanted pregnancies and no matter what happens, the orange one will always frame it in his favour. Anyone who refers to himself as a “stable genius” is clearly anything back. His domestic policies were always about what was best for Trump, as were his foreign policies. Putin wanted Trump in the White House for a reason.

I agree with a lot of that, especially about the closer economic ties creating a better relationship with Russia, what I would say though, we had a massive red flag in 2014 when he invaded Crimea, we should have started backing off then.  Also Germany and France were democracies and not run by gangsters, even a cursory glance at the way Russia was run would have revealed this, but I guess the West were too complacent.

As for Trump, the bloke is clearly an egotistical twat, but I would say he viewed what he was doing as best for the US, whether you agree with that or not is up to you.  Not sure Putin wanted Trump in power (has this even been proved?) for any other reason than he knew how much division it would cause in the US, he probably gambled that the division would be so great he would only be in power for a single term taking the focus off him, how did the Russians even support Trump, I've never seen any proof of it, there was 4 years of trying to prove collusion with Russia and none was found, if anything I suspect the Russians supported both sides, trying to stir as much division as possible. 

[Jimmy_D]

15 minutes ago, Millbrook Saint said:

I agree with a lot of that, especially about the closer economic ties creating a better relationship with Russia, what I would say though, we had a massive red flag in 2014 when he invaded Crimea, we should have started backing off then.  Also Germany and France were democracies and not run by gangsters, even a cursory glance at the way Russia was run would have revealed this, but I guess the West were too complacent.

As for Trump, the bloke is clearly an egotistical twat, but I would say he viewed what he was doing as best for the US, whether you agree with that or not is up to you.  Not sure Putin wanted Trump in power (has this even been proved?) for any other reason than he knew how much division it would cause in the US, he probably gambled that the division would be so great he would only be in power for a single term taking the focus off him, how did the Russians even support Trump, I've never seen any proof of it, there was 4 years of trying to prove collusion with Russia and none was found, if anything I suspect the Russians supported both sides, trying to stir as much division as possible. 

This is off at a tangent, but there was a mountain of evidence that Russia supported Trump with a huge range of activities. It was Trump or the Republican party being aware of it and being an active part of it that wasn’t proven.

[cloggy saint]

1 hour ago, manji said:

A couple of days before we played Newcastle the Saudis beheaded 81 “ criminals” in one day. Yet Ukrainian Fascists murdered 15,000 ethnic Russians in the Donbass since the fascist coup in 2014.

In other news, the earth is flat, Elvis is alive and well and trump won the 2020 election.

Edited 15 March, 2022 by cloggy saint

[badgerx16]

Joe Biden has been barred from entering Russia.