Russia

[badgerx16]

I watched a video yesterday of a Russian news reporter, in his full body armour kit, presenting a piece for Russian news from inside a Ukrainian city. As he shows film of bombed and shelled buildings he narrates how the Ukrainians are deliberately destoying them so that they can plead to the West that it is the Russians who are doing it.

[kyle04]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

I watched a video yesterday of a Russian news reporter, in his full body armour kit, presenting a piece for Russian news from inside a Ukrainian city. As he shows film of bombed and shelled buildings he narrates how the Ukrainians are deliberately destoying them so that they can plead to the West that it is the Russians who are doing it.

Yeah, they're murdering thousands of their own people too.

[Tamesaint]

What is the current attitude of the likes of Jeremy Corbyn , John McDonell and Diane Abbott to the Russian invasion?  I know that 11 labour MPs (plus presumably Corbyn) condemned NATO at the start of the invasion and that Abbott doesn't know her Croatia from her Ukraine but have they said anything else??

[badgerx16]

27 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

What is the current attitude of the likes of Jeremy Corbyn , John McDonell and Diane Abbott to the Russian invasion?  I know that 11 labour MPs (plus presumably Corbyn) condemned NATO at the start of the invasion and that Abbott doesn't know her Croatia from her Ukraine but have they said anything else??

Abbott is just after David Lammey's job as Shadow Foreign Secretary - proving she is as qualified for the shadow position as Liz Truss is for her job in the Cabinet.

[Lighthouse]

32 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

What is the current attitude of the likes of Jeremy Corbyn , John McDonell and Diane Abbott to the Russian invasion?  I know that 11 labour MPs (plus presumably Corbyn) condemned NATO at the start of the invasion and that Abbott doesn't know her Croatia from her Ukraine but have they said anything else??

Last I saw he was getting involved in some 'stop the war' social media campaign which was basically laying the blame squarely at NATO's door. Then again, this is the same bloke that said he's a pacifist, wants to get rid of the nuclear deterrent and was pretty much the only person in Britain who believed Putin when he said those two assassins in Salisbury just happened to be there on holiday at that exact time. He still has supporters, who largely spend their days calling Starmer 'Keith' for having the audacity to be somewhat electable.

In other news, I don't know what to make of these Syrian mercenaries. Surely Russian forces aren't that thinly spread and depleted already...

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

In other news, I don't know what to make of these Syrian mercenaries. Surely Russian forces aren't that thinly spread and depleted already...

Members of the Free Syrian Army have said they want to go to fight against the Russians - could end up with a proxy Syrian civil war.

 

One of the children at my grandson's school is Georgian, and says that she wants to go to kill Russians. She is 7.

[badgerx16]

Putin reported to have had senior officers at the FSB arrested.

[Lighthouse]

3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Putin reported to have had senior officers at the FSB arrested.

He’s really gone all in on the whole Hitler thing, you’ve got to give him that. I just hope someone puts the briefcase on the left side of the table leg this time.

[kyle04]

There were claims by Ukraine that the Chechen Zalenski assassination team were hung out to dry by the FSB, it seemed a little nonsensical at the time unless there are factions in the FSB that want Putin to fail. I don't know about Hitler, but the shadow of Stalin is hanging over Putin right now, who he probably worships. Disappointed that the US bottled out of the Polish MiG deal, the difference between a few aircraft and 1000's of anti-tank/aircraft weapons and drones already being supplied is semantics really, particularly as the US has just passed a $13 billion "aid" package for Ukraine.

[badgerx16]

Several top Russian generals in Moscow also said to have been given the push.

[aintforever]

55 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

There were claims by Ukraine that the Chechen Zalenski assassination team were hung out to dry by the FSB, it seemed a little nonsensical at the time unless there are factions in the FSB that want Putin to fail. I don't know about Hitler, but the shadow of Stalin is hanging over Putin right now, who he probably worships. Disappointed that the US bottled out of the Polish MiG deal, the difference between a few aircraft and 1000's of anti-tank/aircraft weapons and drones already being supplied is semantics really, particularly as the US has just passed a $13 billion "aid" package for Ukraine.

I think the difference is NATO is a defensive organisation so supplying ‘defensive’ weapons is OK, it might be semantics but it’s probably a line that is not worth crossing given what is at stake.

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, kyle04 said:

There were claims by Ukraine that the Chechen Zalenski assassination team were hung out to dry by the FSB, it seemed a little nonsensical at the time unless there are factions in the FSB that want Putin to fail. I don't know about Hitler, but the shadow of Stalin is hanging over Putin right now, who he probably worships. Disappointed that the US bottled out of the Polish MiG deal, the difference between a few aircraft and 1000's of anti-tank/aircraft weapons and drones already being supplied is semantics really, particularly as the US has just passed a $13 billion "aid" package for Ukraine.

The Ukrainians could have played blinder there, preying on Putin’s paranoia, sewing the seeds of doubt that his own FSB may have betrayed his wishes. Whatever the case, he’s now reaping the rewards of an empire built on fear and yes men. If nobody dares tell you when you’re making grave errors, you’re never going to know. By all accounts his generals and spies have just told him the things he wanted to hear.

[kyle04]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

The Ukrainians could have played blinder there, preying on Putin’s paranoia, sewing the seeds of doubt that his own FSB may have betrayed his wishes. Whatever the case, he’s now reaping the rewards of an empire built on fear and yes men. If nobody dares tell you when you’re making grave errors, you’re never going to know. By all accounts his generals and spies have just told him the things he wanted to hear.

Agree, it seems Putin is a little agitated lately! In WW2 when 3 million Germans were amassed at the Russian border, Stalin refused to believe that they would attack. General Zhukov was sidelined as he (alone) insisted that invasion was imminent , only to be reinstated later as the catastrophe unfolded. Long may the yes men in the Kremlin prevail, feeding Putins ego as his army is slowly demolished (we hope).

[buctootim]

18 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I think the difference is NATO is a defensive organisation so supplying ‘defensive’ weapons is OK, it might be semantics but it’s probably a line that is not worth crossing given what is at stake.

Wouldn't be surprised if some deal has been struck with China and that line was the price. 

[whelk]

4 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Wouldn't be surprised if some deal has been struck with China and that line was the price. 

I imagine the Chinese may be a little pissed at Putin having now caused the West to rethink their dependencies. Has stirred up a spirit in people that could easily have knock on effects to China.

[kyle04]

20 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I think the difference is NATO is a defensive organisation so supplying ‘defensive’ weapons is OK, it might be semantics but it’s probably a line that is not worth crossing given what is at stake.

If your country's been invaded and systematically destroyed, I would rate any weapon as "defensive". Not having a pop at you, quoting the official NATO rationale, but an aircraft missile and a Javelin hitting an advancing Russian tank amount to pretty much the same thing. Putins crossed many lines already, indiscriminate shelling of civilian areas, thermobaric and cluster bombs, breaking ceasefires and shelling fleeing civilians, and next on the menu might be sarin laced bombs.

[kyle04]

4 minutes ago, whelk said:

I imagine the Chinese may be a little pissed at Putin having now caused the West to rethink their dependencies. Has stirred up a spirit in people that could easily have knock on effects to China.

What, we'll have to pay more for our sweatshop Nike shirts, why weren't we warned ?

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, kyle04 said:

If your country's been invaded and systematically destroyed, I would rate any weapon as "defensive". Not having a pop at you, quoting the official NATO rationale, but an aircraft missile and a Javelin hitting an advancing Russian tank amount to pretty much the same thing. Putins crossed many lines already, indiscriminate shelling of civilian areas, thermobaric and cluster bombs, breaking ceasefires and shelling fleeing civilians, and next on the menu might be sarin laced bombs.

In terms of what the Ukrainians and Russians deserve and what’s fair, you’re absolutely right, I can’t argue. As a strategy for the greater good however, I think we’re better off staying out as much as possible, whilst supporting the resistance in Ukraine. As far as Russia are concerned, the less this war is about NATO the more infighting will begin to fester, as we’re starting to see. We don’t want to give in to temptation and become the distraction Putin craves.

if Putin starts firing nerve agents at Russian speakers in Mariupol or Kharkiv, there’s an outside chance it might just be the end of him.

[badgerx16]

From the BBC.....

"Criticism of the Russian invasion of Ukraine has appeared on Russian TV, marking an unusual departure for the tightly controlled Russian media.

“Evenings with Vladimir Soloviev,” a popular pro-Kremlin talk-show on the Russia-1 channel, strayed from Moscow's official line during a conversation with guests this week.

Semyon Bagdasarov, an academic appearing on the show, asked whether "we need to get into another Afghanistan, but even worse", the Moscow Times reported.

“There are more people and they’re more advanced in their weapon handling," he said.

Karen Shakhnazarov, a filmmaker appearing alongside Bagdasarov also questioned the Kremlin’s decision.

“I have a hard time imagining taking cities such as Kyiv. I can’t imagine how that would look,” Shakhnazarov said.

The comments are unusual as the programme's host Soloviev has been a loyal ally of President Vladimir Putin and the show has so-far supported what Russia has called a "special military operation" in Ukraine."

 

 

[kyle04]

4 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

In terms of what the Ukrainians and Russians deserve and what’s fair, you’re absolutely right, I can’t argue. As a strategy for the greater good however, I think we’re better off staying out as much as possible, whilst supporting the resistance in Ukraine. As far as Russia are concerned, the less this war is about NATO the more infighting will begin to fester, as we’re starting to see. We don’t want to give in to temptation and become the distraction Putin craves.

if Putin starts firing nerve agents at Russian speakers in Mariupol or Kharkiv, there’s an outside chance it might just be the end of him.

I think you're probably right, there are far more intelligent and experienced people judging these things than us (no offense!). I would add that the lines are blurred though, after all NATO countries have been supplying "lethal" aid to Ukraine, that have killed thousands of Russians, and will continue to do so. Even if you say each European country is making an independent contribution, not under the NATO flag so to speak, that could have applied to Poland "donating" its MiGs to Ukraine as a supportive gesture. The stumbling block was the US "backfill" of F16's , which could have been kept quiet for a while surely.

[whelk]

25 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

If your country's been invaded and systematically destroyed, I would rate any weapon as "defensive". Not having a pop at you, quoting the official NATO rationale, but an aircraft missile and a Javelin hitting an advancing Russian tank amount to pretty much the same thing. Putins crossed many lines already, indiscriminate shelling of civilian areas, thermobaric and cluster bombs, breaking ceasefires and shelling fleeing civilians, and next on the menu might be sarin laced bombs.

It is funny what a bizarre interpretation of playing by rules going on. Like the little cunt can say ok a NATO country supplied fighter jets so I declare war on them. You are struggling with the one you have at the moment you little piss pot.

[whelk]

4 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

I think you're probably right, there are far more intelligent and experienced people judging these things than us (no offense!). I would add that the lines are blurred though, after all NATO countries have been supplying "lethal" aid to Ukraine, that have killed thousands of Russians, and will continue to do so. Even if you say each European country is making an independent contribution, not under the NATO flag so to speak, that could have applied to Poland "donating" its MiGs to Ukraine as a supportive gesture. The stumbling block was the US "backfill" of F16's , which could have been kept quiet for a while surely.

And I take offence! Some of the best military strategists are on Saintsweb

[kyle04]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

It is funny what a bizarre interpretation of playing by rules going on. Like the little cunt can say ok a NATO country supplied fighter jets so I declare war on them. You are struggling with the one you have at the moment you little piss pot.

"... and speaking to the BBC there was the foreign secretary Mr Whelk"

[aintforever]

38 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

If your country's been invaded and systematically destroyed, I would rate any weapon as "defensive". Not having a pop at you, quoting the official NATO rationale, but an aircraft missile and a Javelin hitting an advancing Russian tank amount to pretty much the same thing. Putins crossed many lines already, indiscriminate shelling of civilian areas, thermobaric and cluster bombs, breaking ceasefires and shelling fleeing civilians, and next on the menu might be sarin laced bombs.

I agree but MIGs have the capability of actually attacking Russia itself not just the invading forces in Ukraine so are considered offensive. I don’t think NATO want to be in a position where Russia can bomb Polish airfields claiming self defence because then we are in WW3.

[kyle04]

1 minute ago, aintforever said:

I agree but MIGs have the capability of actually attacking Russia itself not just the invading forces in Ukraine so are considered offensive. I don’t think NATO want to be in a position where Russia can bomb Polish airfields claiming self defence because then we are in WW3.

True , but Ukraine has MiG's anyway . They haven't attacked Russia with them and very likely never will do. It's a red herring really. Russia could only legitimately attack Poland if air strikes were launched from there with Polish badged aircraft, if the planes attack Russian convoys from Ukraine with their pilots that's fair enough I think. Considering how badly Putins forces are performing at the moment I think a war with NATO is the last think he would want.

[CB Fry]

41 minutes ago, whelk said:

And I take offence! Some of the best military strategists are on Saintsweb

My analysis is that the Russians just want it more.

[whelk]

8 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

My analysis is that the Russians just want it more.

Some of the curvature seen when throwing these Molotov cocktails has been absolutely tremendous.  
A chance for Jamie Redknapp to literally use ‘literal’ correctly when he says they are literally on fire.

[Jimmy_D]

3 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

From the BBC.....

"Criticism of the Russian invasion of Ukraine has appeared on Russian TV, marking an unusual departure for the tightly controlled Russian media.

“Evenings with Vladimir Soloviev,” a popular pro-Kremlin talk-show on the Russia-1 channel, strayed from Moscow's official line during a conversation with guests this week.

Semyon Bagdasarov, an academic appearing on the show, asked whether "we need to get into another Afghanistan, but even worse", the Moscow Times reported.

“There are more people and they’re more advanced in their weapon handling," he said.

Karen Shakhnazarov, a filmmaker appearing alongside Bagdasarov also questioned the Kremlin’s decision.

“I have a hard time imagining taking cities such as Kyiv. I can’t imagine how that would look,” Shakhnazarov said.

The comments are unusual as the programme's host Soloviev has been a loyal ally of President Vladimir Putin and the show has so-far supported what Russia has called a "special military operation" in Ukraine."

 

 

Hard to imagine that would have been sanctioned, it's still surprising it happened on state tv.

Suggests that either Putin might be starting to lose control of the narrative a bit, or that Putin is starting to lay the groundwork for the possibility that withdrawing from Ukraine is their best course of action.

[AlexLaw76]

Russia making advances West, with Lviv their goal. Which would be a game changer if took/flattened. However, highly unlikely though. They continue to encircle other major cities. 

Russia's' "front" is absolutely enormous. Many commentators seriously questioning how it can be sustained. 

Edited 12 March, 2022 by AlexLaw76

[Weston Super Saint]

5 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Russia making advances West, with Lviv their goal. Which would be a game changer if took/flattened. However, highly unlikely though. They continue to encircle other major cities. 

Russia's' "front" is absolutely enormous. Many commentators seriously questioning how it can be sustained. 

Have they given up on their previous goal of taking Kyiv as so far they've failed miserably?

Instead they've decided to head 550km West, which is bound to end well given their previous track record of logistics and supply chains!

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Have they given up on their previous goal of taking Kyiv as so far they've failed miserably?

Instead they've decided to head 550km West, which is bound to end well given their previous track record of logistics and supply chains!

They have shifted to a focus of long range bombing, just causing as much destruction as possible, whilst they (try to) cut off cities. They are edging closer to achieving that with the capital, hence their push west.

[Weston Super Saint]

They could save so much time and effort and just push the big red button if the goal is to completely destroy the country so no-one can live there.....

[badgerx16]

[badgerx16]

Reports and analysis suggest that the Belarus army is not going to get involved in the 'Special Military Operation', that several senior military officers have resigned or left the country, and that many hundreds of Belarussian troops have actually defected to the Ukrainian army. One source I read is quoted as saying that in the unlikely event of Lukashenko trying to order his army into action the biggest threat to the lives of his field commanders would be their own soldiers.

[whelk]

Interesting insightful article here. Not behind the FT paywall either

 

[whelk]

9 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Reports and analysis suggest that the Belarus army is not going to get involved in the 'Special Military Operation', that several senior military officers have resigned or left the country, and that many hundreds of Belarussian troops have actually defected to the Ukrainian army. One source I read is quoted as saying that in the unlikely event of Lukashenko trying to order his army into action the biggest threat to the lives of his field commanders would be their own soldiers.

Seems to be the best hope is that the Russian troops are not behind this at all and not subject to all the propaganda as seeing it with their own eyes. 

[whelk]

Good work Portugal 

 

[buctootim]

7 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Russia making advances West, with Lviv their goal. Which would be a game changer if took/flattened. However, highly unlikely though. They continue to encircle other major cities. 

Russia's' "front" is absolutely enormous. Many commentators seriously questioning how it can be sustained. 

It odd. Almost as if someone is deliberately effing it up.  

[buctootim]

Would be nice to think so 

 

[whelk]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/55802db6-a1ed-11ec-a1de-983f3d5a1668?shareToken=4c79ccbdf304bc4e1a79577a0f57d164
 

one for all those in awe of Putin and his military strength 

[Lighthouse]

9 minutes ago, whelk said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/55802db6-a1ed-11ec-a1de-983f3d5a1668?shareToken=4c79ccbdf304bc4e1a79577a0f57d164
 

one for all those in awe of Putin and his military strength 

If Ukraine did pull off the unthinkable and drive them out, we should offer Russia a fast track NATO membership. For their own protection.

[badgerx16]

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10606727/Tucker-Carlson-suggests-officials-wanted-Russia-invade-Ukraine-Covid-powers-run-out.html

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/chip-roy-ukraine-fox-news-anthony-fauci-covid-1317107/

 

And add to that the new all-encompassing mega conspiracy theory that Covid-19 was actually developed by the US in the Ukrainian labs.

Edited 13 March, 2022 by badgerx16

[sadoldgit]

Apparently there has been a Russian military strike at a Ukrainian military base near the Polish border. Putin thumbing his nose at NATO?

[Lighthouse]

Anybody going to take in a refugee?

[Weston Super Saint]

24 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Anybody going to take in a refugee?

Rule 1?

[Weston Super Saint]

Meanwhile Iran thumbs its nose at NATO by destroying buildings in a missile strike near the US embassy in Iraq.

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Meanwhile Iran thumbs its nose at NATO by destroying buildings in a missile strike near the US embassy in Iraq.

At least the third time in the last 12 months they have fired into Iraq.

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

Anybody going to take in a refugee?

Depends on their vaccine status.  

Or is that not a thing anymore?

[buctootim]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Anybody going to take in a refugee?

I might. I have a couple of friends who are deciding where to go - one is in Warsaw and one Berlin. Tbh Im advising them they'll be better off in a EU country rather than dealing with the hurdles and lack of support Britain is bound to make them face.  

[Warriorsaint]

I’ll post this to Nigel Farage. He might want to change sides, the traitor.

22 hours ago, whelk said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/55802db6-a1ed-11ec-a1de-983f3d5a1668?shareToken=4c79ccbdf304bc4e1a79577a0f57d164
 

one for all those in awe of Putin and his military strength