Russia

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

Trump's team return from talks with the Russians

I thought of that exact same comparison yesterday. Essentially you have a useless buffoon thinking he’s negotiating his way to the Nobel peace prize by giving a brutal dictator everything he wants, in exchange for a piece of paper saying, “I promise to stop being naughty.”

We’re at the, “let them have the Sudetenland, we don’t want a war,” phase of proceedings.

[egg]

8 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Disagree about NATO, Russia sees NATO expansion as western aggression, and would like the Baltics to have not joined either - though he has now shot himself in the foot through his belligerence, with Finland and Sweden abandoning their neutrality.

Why should Ukraine have to give up any territory? The bottom line is Putin does not accept Ukraine as being a legitimate country, and it's annexation would be the first step in restoring Russia to it's Imperial glory - Georgia next ?

Morally they shouldn't, but in reality they will. If they fight on without US support they'll lose a hell of a lot. If the rest of Europe support them they'll struggle, and the rest of the Europe will be left so depleted doing so that they'll be vulnerable. They'll do a deal that involves the ceding of some land as the lesser of two evils. 

[leesaint88]

39 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Disagree about NATO, Russia sees NATO expansion as western aggression, and would like the Baltics to have not joined either - though he has now shot himself in the foot through his belligerence, with Finland and Sweden abandoning their neutrality.

Why should Ukraine have to give up any territory? The bottom line is Putin does not accept Ukraine as being a legitimate country, and it's annexation would be the first step in restoring Russia to it's Imperial glory - Georgia next ?

I totally understand the issues with territory and one can argue that Crimeans have always been sympathetic with Ukraine and in large parts see themselves as Ukrainian. The Donbass is a totally different entity all together as it's always had a large Slavic population which has always looked east rather than west, that said there is still a large proportion of citizens (especially in southern and western parts) who see themselves as Ukrainian rather than Russian.   

Either way Ukraine is going to lose territory and probably as mentioned the Donetsk & Luhansk regions along with some areas north of Crimea (along with Crimea itself). But at the same time Russia knows it's going to lose out too, it's highly likely Ukraine will get strong security guarantees along with the possibility of boots on the ground along with air support. I'd imagine the degree of loosening sanctions will depend on how Russia behaves over a period of time, because three years on we are starting to see the effects of these on the Russian economy particularly with inflation still operating at wild rates.   

Another factor on how the US is behaving is based on their own objectives in South America, there is a strong possibility that the US will use military force in Panama and they might be softening the approach to Russia's land grab to justify any future US operations. 

Edited Wednesday at 10:57 by leesaint88
Shite spelling

[Lighthouse]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

Morally they shouldn't, but in reality they will. If they fight on without US support they'll lose a hell of a lot. If the rest of Europe support them they'll struggle, and the rest of the Europe will be left so depleted doing so that they'll be vulnerable. They'll do a deal that involves the ceding of some land as the lesser of two evils. 

There’s very little motivation to do any kind of deal on the terms being discussed at the moment. They won’t cede land without security guarantees from NATO and Lavrov says that’s out of the question.

Europe won’t struggle to support them, if there is a concerted effort towards it from all countries involved. Russia is dependent on countries like Iran and North Korea for military support, if we wanted to we could easily out supply them in terms of quality and quantity of hardware.

[egg]

11 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

There’s very little motivation to do any kind of deal on the terms being discussed at the moment. They won’t cede land without security guarantees from NATO and Lavrov says that’s out of the question.

Europe won’t struggle to support them, if there is a concerted effort towards it from all countries involved. Russia is dependent on countries like Iran and North Korea for military support, if we wanted to we could easily out supply them in terms of quality and quantity of hardware.

I think you're overlooking the inevitably for Ukraine. They are losing with US support, and will lose without it. Despite your optimism, Europe cannot arm Ukraine, and if they try to do so, they'll be left with next to nothing. European support without the US for an ongoing war just won't happen imo. The harsh choice for Ukraine is concede on the least unfavourable terms or fight on and lose more. Europe will be boxed into an uncomfortable corner - back a concession or fund and potentially man a fight. This will end the way it was always going to, albeit in a manner nobody expected courtesy of mad Donny. 

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, leesaint88 said:

Personally I don't think the Russians are too bothered about Ukraine being in NATO, .......

Sergei Lavrov has just said that the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO was the "root cause" of the war.

[whelk]

Why can’t the Saudi’s just hack Lavrov to death and deny everything? Would definitely support their 2034 World Cup if they did

[Jimmy_D]

1 hour ago, egg said:

I think you're overlooking the inevitably for Ukraine. They are losing with US support, and will lose without it. Despite your optimism, Europe cannot arm Ukraine, and if they try to do so, they'll be left with next to nothing. European support without the US for an ongoing war just won't happen imo. The harsh choice for Ukraine is concede on the least unfavourable terms or fight on and lose more. Europe will be boxed into an uncomfortable corner - back a concession or fund and potentially man a fight. This will end the way it was always going to, albeit in a manner nobody expected courtesy of mad Donny. 

The only victories for Russia are entirely Pyrrhic, coming at bigger costs than ever before. Their resources are more and more stretched just making those small gains, some of which are starting to be reversed. For more than half a year they haven't even been able to hold all of Russia. They don't have anywhere near the resources they'd need to make it 'inevitable' Ukraine loses.

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

There’s very little motivation to do any kind of deal on the terms being discussed at the moment. They won’t cede land without security guarantees from NATO and Lavrov says that’s out of the question.

Europe won’t struggle to support them, if there is a concerted effort towards it from all countries involved. Russia is dependent on countries like Iran and North Korea for military support, if we wanted to we could easily out supply them in terms of quality and quantity of hardware.

The citizens of Europe aren't going to start impoversihing themselves to try to out produce Iran and North Korea in order to lengthen a war that nobody really wants. 

[AlexLaw76]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

There’s very little motivation to do any kind of deal on the terms being discussed at the moment. They won’t cede land without security guarantees from NATO and Lavrov says that’s out of the question.

Europe won’t struggle to support them, if there is a concerted effort towards it from all countries involved. Russia is dependent on countries like Iran and North Korea for military support, if we wanted to we could easily out supply them in terms of quality and quantity of hardware.

If we wanted to?

at what cost? 

[Lighthouse]

Impoverished 😆 Russia is going cap in hand to Iran and North Korea and Iran for weapons. They have a combined GDP of less than half a trillion dollars. Britain alone has an economic output nearly seven times that.

Look, I know some of you want to pretend that we’re all a bunch of rabbits running from the great Russian bear but it’s not 1965 any more.

[egg]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

The citizens of Europe aren't going to start impoversihing themselves to try to out produce Iran and North Korea in order to lengthen a war that nobody really wants. 

Exactly. People on here are not playing the tape forward with realism. People point to North Korean arms support as a negative, but the reality is that they supply more than us and Europe. Throw Iranian and Chinese supply on top and we're massively out produced. 

[egg]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

Impoverished 😆 Russia is going cap in hand to Iran and North Korea and Iran for weapons. They have a combined GDP of less than half a trillion dollars. Britain alone has an economic output nearly seven times that.

Look, I know some of you want to pretend that we’re all a bunch of rabbits running from the great Russian bear but it’s not 1965 any more.

Cap in hand. Behave. They have a supply line that Ukraine don't. If he need the goods, and get them, it doesn't matter whether anyone else respects your dealer. 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

Impoverished 😆 Russia is going cap in hand to Iran and North Korea and Iran for weapons. They have a combined GDP of less than half a trillion dollars. Britain alone has an economic output nearly seven times that.

Look, I know some of you want to pretend that we’re all a bunch of rabbits running from the great Russian bear but it’s not 1965 any more.

Have you seen the state of our armed forces? Talking heads said yesterday it would be physically impossible for us to have boots on the ground in Ukraine as we simply don't have the numbers. The resources and manufacturing required for us to continue to fight the war is significant and would last for a number of years. 

[egg]

10 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Have you seen the state of our armed forces? Talking heads said yesterday it would be physically impossible for us to have boots on the ground in Ukraine as we simply don't have the numbers. The resources and manufacturing required for us to continue to fight the war is significant and would last for a number of years. 

People are in love with the notion that we're stronger than we are, and that stronger nations are weaker than they are. Realism has been lost on many. 

[sadoldgit]

For those who don’t believe that Trump is Putin’s puppet.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9814k2jlxko.amp

[egg]

Jesus fecking Christ. The bloke has lost it. If he ever had it. 

"Zelensky better move fast or he is not going to have a country left," US President Donald Trump says in a post on Truth Social.

Labelling Zelensky "a dictator", Trump writes: "I love Ukraine, but Zelensky has done a terrible job, his country is shattered, and MILLIONS have unnecessarily died."

Trump has also taken a swipe at Europe, saying the war in Ukraine is "far more important to Europe than it is to us".

"We have a big, beautiful ocean as a separation," he says.

He adds that Europe has "failed to bring peace" in the region.

 

[badgerx16]

13 minutes ago, egg said:

Jesus fecking Christ. The bloke has lost it. If he ever had it. 

"Zelensky better move fast or he is not going to have a country left," US President Donald Trump says in a post on Truth Social.

Labelling Zelensky "a dictator", Trump writes: "I love Ukraine, but Zelensky has done a terrible job, his country is shattered, and MILLIONS have unnecessarily died."

Trump has also taken a swipe at Europe, saying the war in Ukraine is "far more important to Europe than it is to us".

"We have a big, beautiful ocean as a separation," he says.

He adds that Europe has "failed to bring peace" in the region.

 

Putin's useful idiot.

[Lighthouse]

Mad as a March hare.

[egg]

Will we be seeing BRICSUSA+ anytime soon? 

[badgerx16]

Does this whole thing between Trump and Zelensky have its roots in the bogus claims around Ukraine and the Hunter Biden investigation ? Is this just another Trump hissy fit because he bought into the conspiracy theory and feels he was thwarted ?

Edited Wednesday at 17:17 by badgerx16

[egg]

15 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Does this whole thing between Trump and Zelensky have its roots in the bogus claims around Ukraine and the Hunter Biden investigation ? Is this just another Trump hissy fit because he bought into the conspiracy theory and feels he was thwarted ?

I think it's more of a Trump/Putin relationship, and a shared support of authoritarianism and push back against democracy. Zelensky rightly hit back against Trump, and he's reacted with both barrels. What matters now is the reactions of leaders of civilised democracies, but I think there will be some very interesting alignments coming up. 

[Gloucester Saint]

When Trump says Ukraine started the war and Zelensky doesn’t have a mandate, he’s repeating what Soviet state TV and radio have been saying since 2022. Gift for Putin who was on his last legs domestically. Those alleged photos in a Moscow hotel must be really damaging. 

[badgerx16]

[badgerx16]

Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Roger Wicker, ( Republican ), says that Putin is a war criminal and should be jailed, and possibly executed.

[sadoldgit]

4 hours ago, egg said:

Jesus fecking Christ. The bloke has lost it. If he ever had it. 

"Zelensky better move fast or he is not going to have a country left," US President Donald Trump says in a post on Truth Social.

Labelling Zelensky "a dictator", Trump writes: "I love Ukraine, but Zelensky has done a terrible job, his country is shattered, and MILLIONS have unnecessarily died."

Trump has also taken a swipe at Europe, saying the war in Ukraine is "far more important to Europe than it is to us".

"We have a big, beautiful ocean as a separation," he says.

He adds that Europe has "failed to bring peace" in the region.

 

Not a day goes by when this moron doesn’t embarrass himself and anyone with any  level of basic intelligence and humanity. How does it come to this?

[tdmickey3]

10 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Not a day goes by when this moron doesn’t embarrass himself and anyone with any  level of basic intelligence and humanity. How does it come to this?

Thing is, he is not at all embarrassed by it, he actually believes he is justified in what he says but I'm sure that even some of his close team are ...

[badgerx16]

Today's Matt cartoon in the Telegraph

[leesaint88]

20 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Sergei Lavrov has just said that the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO was the "root cause" of the war.

I thought it was 'De-nazifying Ukraine and saving those in the East?'. To Russia, Ukraine is the last country it can have any control over. If it pivots to the West then the last bastion of Soviet Union is gone..

[AlexLaw76]

I wonder what the situation will look like if the USA pull much/all of their support/money for Ukraine?

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I wonder what the situation will look like if the USA pull much/all of their support/money for Ukraine?

Dictator Zelensky and his corrupt regime will finally pay the price for starting the war against their peaceful neighbours.

[leesaint88]

21 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I wonder what the situation will look like if the USA pull much/all of their support/money for Ukraine?

It's already happening. It's noted Ukraine hasn't received any US military aid since the 22nd January...

[badgerx16]

What happened on Riyadh was not really a surprise given that leader 'A' sent one of the most experienced and battle hardened diplomats in the world and leader 'B' sent his golf buddy.

[badgerx16]

How do people think Trump might have prevented the war from happening ? "Please Vlad, if you promise to leave Ukraine alone I'll let you skip the foreplay".

[spyinthesky]

It does make you wonder if Trump was compromised during his time in Moscow and the Russians have evidence of it.

[leesaint88]

2 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

It does make you wonder if Trump was compromised during his time in Moscow and the Russians have evidence of it.

Few commentators in the US are mentioning Trump's comments are to 'rally European nations to do more' and that he's playing the Russians. Who knows though, because he's absolutely causing chaos at the moment.

 

[Jimmy_D]

It’s difficult to read how this will play out in the US.

Trump has an extremely strong grip on power just at the moment, and certainly isn’t throwing his full weight behind Ukraine at the moment, and his motivation for that isn’t entirely clear, but below Trump there’s still extremely strong bipartisan support for Ukraine, and among the US public there’s still extremely strong support for Ukraine.

Trump has gone so strongly against Ukraine with his rhetoric that it seems to be one of the factors contributing to his approval rating in the US sinking, and it’s certainly one of the factors uniting Europe in its support of Ukraine. It’s possible that Trump’s ultimate aim is to burn a hefty amount of political capital with Europe to shift a significant amount of the burden of Russia and Ukraine to Europe.

[spyinthesky]

8 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Dictator Zelensky and his corrupt regime will finally pay the price for starting the war against their peaceful neighbours.

It was all the fault of the Nazi Jew Zelensky.

[Turkish]

8 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I wonder what the situation will look like if the USA pull much/all of their support/money for Ukraine?

I wonder if the war ends do we still need to pay Ukraine £3b a year for the next 100 year? Could put it towards the NHS perhaps 

[badgerx16]

9 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I wonder if the war ends do we still need to pay Ukraine £3b a year for the next 100 year?

Not if Putin wins.

[aintforever]

2 hours ago, leesaint88 said:

Few commentators in the US are mentioning Trump's comments are to 'rally European nations to do more' and that he's playing the Russians. Who knows though, because he's absolutely causing chaos at the moment.

 

I would tend to agree with that, I wouldn’t be surprised if things end up carrying on pretty much as they are but with Europe stumping up the cash.

[Weston Super Saint]

8 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Not if Putin wins.

In that case we have to spend it on defence.

[Farmer Saint]

19 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I wonder if the war ends do we still need to pay Ukraine £3b a year for the next 100 year? Could put it towards the NHS perhaps 

No-one could believe that would happen

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

No-one could believe that would happen

You would have to print it on the side of a bus.

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

You would have to print it on the side of a bus.

And be told it by a swivel eyed racist and a blonde man child.

[Turkish]

17 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

No-one could believe that would happen

It’d make a great party election campaign for 2029 👍

[AlexLaw76]

8 hours ago, aintforever said:

I would tend to agree with that, I wouldn’t be surprised if things end up carrying on pretty much as they are but with Europe stumping up the cash.

Which will last for about 6 months, at best 

[badgerx16]

GBeebies news host shilling for Putin - absolute disgrace. ( Ignore the commentary from the YouTube channel, just listen to the idiot in the brown dress )

 

Edited 23 hours ago by badgerx16

[badgerx16]

A better video 📸 f the stupid bint, without the YouTube commentary

( God knows what the bit at the end is about ).

 

Cue the Laughing Gnome

Edited 22 hours ago by badgerx16

[Gloucester Saint]

3 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

GBeebies news host shilling for Putin - absolute disgrace. ( Ignore the commentary from the YouTube channel, just listen to the idiot in the brown dress )

 

Beverley Turner is a total moron. James Cracknell is well out of that marriage. Nutter. Anyone will say anything for a few quid. What a track record as well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bev_Turner

Edited 20 hours ago by Gloucester Saint