Russia

[badgerx16]

  On 13/01/2023 at 04:45, skintsaint said:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1613671178563977217.html

Sounds fun for Russians if true.

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  On 13/01/2023 at 09:12, buctootim said:

I read they have lost 10,000 men just to take a provincial town and atttempting to take Bakhmut.  Also a Machiavellian theory gonig around that Putin promised Prizghozin greater power if he took Soledar knowing that he would either destroy his troops in trying, or fail.   

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I wonder how many wish they had stayed in the Gulag.

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 13/01/2023 at 09:12, buctootim said:

I read they have lost 10,000 men just to take a provincial town and atttempting to take Bakhmut.  Also a Machiavellian theory gonig around that Putin promised Prizghozin greater power if he took Soledar knowing that he would either destroy his troops in trying, or fail.   

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I think you may be muddling them up with 'the Grand old Duke of York'  

[whelk]

Can we get whoever runs their railways over here? 

would laugh at fucking leaves
 

 

[Lighthouse]

TBF I’d drive quicker if people were firing mortars at me too.

[buctootim]

  On 13/01/2023 at 22:00, whelk said:

Can we get whoever runs their railways over here? 

would laugh at fucking leaves
 

 

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Nice trains too. Went from Kyiv to Lviv on a sleeper with full bed and steward bringing you tea on demand. £12

[Dark Munster]

  On 14/01/2023 at 00:21, buctootim said:

Nice trains too. Went from Kyiv to Lviv on a sleeper with full bed and steward bringing you tea on demand. £12

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That's an expensive cup of tea.

[cloggy saint]

Paranoia or building up for a massive false flag operation? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/19/defensive-missile-systems-erected-on-moscow-rooftops

[badgerx16]

  On 20/01/2023 at 11:45, cloggy saint said:

Paranoia or building up for a massive false flag operation? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/19/defensive-missile-systems-erected-on-moscow-rooftops

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Probably just playing to the domestic audience, showing that the threat is "real" as Russia fights to defend itself against NATO.

[buctootim]

  On 20/01/2023 at 11:53, badgerx16 said:

Probably just playing to the domestic audience, showing that the threat is "real" as Russia fights to defend itself against NATO.

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This. The only way they can get the population to accept more deaths, falling living standards and further mobiisation is if they invoke the 'defend the Motherland' gumpf.   

[whelk]

Why the fuck is there any hesitation in giving tanks?

[Holmes_and_Watson]

  On 20/01/2023 at 18:07, whelk said:

Why the fuck is there any hesitation in giving tanks?

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Concern regarding escalation, with the Russians bringing out their full tank reserves?

[badgerx16]

  On 20/01/2023 at 18:07, whelk said:

Why the fuck is there any hesitation in giving tanks?

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Scholz has some personal issues with 'escalation', probably due to his party's pacifist history. Notwithstanding the large amount of hardware Germany has already sent or commited to, he sees tanks as a step too far. He initially put a caveat the supply of Leopard 2s in that other countries had to send MBTs before it could be allowed. The former Warsaw Pact members of NATO have been sending their Soviet era, ( updated and improved ), kit, but this then didn't suit Scholz who has now said that Germany would only send Leo's if the US sent Abrams', of which there are over 3000 in storage. At the same time there is a contractual clause that prevents other European Leopard users sending their tanks, ( of which there are several hundred ), to Ukraine without Germany's approval. ( The German Defence Minister says this is probably not necessary ).

As of this evening there are protests in Germany asking that the Government "Free the Leopards", and Poland are said to be organising other Leopard users to send their tanks anyway, without German approval.

As for other options: the Abrams, whilst an excellent weapon system, is heavy and requires an extensive logistics support train, the Challenger is similarly effective, but heavy and uses non NATO- standard ammunition. ( There are also not very many of them, as the UK has cut down it's effective strength, and the only other user is Oman ). The other European MBT is the French Leclerc, the production line for which, and hence the source of spares, was shut down years ago.

Leopard is the best option, in terms of numbers, ammo, and spares, and suitability for the Ukrainian terrain, so hopefully Scholz can be leant on.

[badgerx16]

Following on.......

Also, there are moves to try to get 82 upgraded T80s operated by the government of the Greek half of Cyprus moved to Ukraine. This is part of a 'domino' proposal whereby the T80s are replaced by Leopards from the Greek army, ( which would require German approval for their re-export ), and the Greeks then getting new Leo2s from the Germans.

Edited 20 January, 2023 by badgerx16

[badgerx16]

Coming to a warzone near you, the 4 Horsemen of Putin's apocalypse;

Challenger 2

Leclerc

Leopard 2

Abrams

Edited 24 January, 2023 by badgerx16

[whelk]

Great news. See reporters are still asking inane questions about ‘provoking Putin’ by providing tanks. Yeah we really need to fear this bald puffy faced cunt

[Dragon_man]

  On 25/01/2023 at 17:43, whelk said:

Great news. See reporters are still asking inane questions about ‘provoking Putin’ by providing tanks. Yeah we really need to fear this bald puffy faced cunt

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Wonder if Putin worries about escalation when he kills civilians, poisons people in the UK, weaponises energy and destabilises food chains. No, thought not.  

[farawaysaint]

Why the hell is the Leclerc twice the price of all the other MBTs? Anyone tank savvy know?

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 27/01/2023 at 00:35, farawaysaint said:

Why the hell is the Leclerc twice the price of all the other MBTs? Anyone tank savvy know?

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Costs more to put more reverse gears in?

[badgerx16]

  On 27/01/2023 at 00:35, farawaysaint said:

Why the hell is the Leclerc twice the price of all the other MBTs? Anyone tank savvy know?

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One theory I have seen is to persuade the Arab Gulf states that "You get what you pay for". Twice the price is implicitly twice as good.

In reality, it seems,nobody quite knows. It could be that in quoting the unit price France is factoring in development costs where other manufacturers do not. Certainly, there is nothing so unique about LeClerc to justify it on technological or armour composition grounds.

Maybe, being France, it's the cost of buying off the engineering unions to ensure they didn't go on strike during production.

Edited 27 January, 2023 by badgerx16

[Plastic]

  On 27/01/2023 at 08:49, badgerx16 said:

Maybe, being France, it's the cost of buying off the engineering unions to ensure they didn't go on strike during production.

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Plus the 4-hour working day. Takes twice as long to build.

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 27/01/2023 at 14:28, Plastic said:

Plus the 4-hour working day. Takes twice as long to build.

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Productivity in France is higher than the UK

[whelk]

Warship documentary on BBC 2 gives interesting insight about the manoeuvres. Clearly made before February invasion

[whelk]

Comes to something when I am veering to believe the Kremlin over the word of a former PM

Edited 30 January, 2023 by whelk

[badgerx16]

  On 30/01/2023 at 18:18, whelk said:

Comes to something when I am veering to believe the Kremlin over the word of a former PM

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Surely you are not insinuating that Boris is being creative with the truth ? That would be totally out of character for him.

[badgerx16]

[buctootim]

Some people aren't really cut out for war reporting 😄

 

[badgerx16]

  On 06/02/2023 at 10:45, buctootim said:

Some people aren't really cut out for war reporting 😄

 

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Just a bad case of hiccups.

[Jonnyboy]

  On 20/01/2023 at 16:23, buctootim said:

This. The only way they can get the population to accept more deaths, falling living standards and further mobiisation is if they invoke the 'defend the Motherland' gumpf.   

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Can we really rely on you for a neutral opinion, what with your sexual and financial interest in Ukraine becoming as Westernised as possible? 

[badgerx16]

  On 08/02/2023 at 11:17, Jonnyboy said:

Can we really rely on you for a neutral opinion, what with your sexual and financial interest in Ukraine becoming as Westernised as possible? 

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Why should Buctootim's opinion be neutral when yours isn't ?

It is simply that, opinion, and each person colours theirs with experience, preference, and prejudice.

Edited 8 February, 2023 by badgerx16

[buctootim]

  On 08/02/2023 at 11:17, Jonnyboy said:

Can we really rely on you for a neutral opinion, what with your sexual and financial interest in Ukraine becoming as Westernised as possible? 

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Haha. My "financial interest in Ukraine" consists of going there for work paid for by my UK charity employer. I had one 'thing' there but have 15 or so platonic friends / work related aquaintances. Coversely my association with Russia goes back much longer. Maybe I'm a Putin shill?       

[Jonnyboy]

  On 08/02/2023 at 11:28, badgerx16 said:

Why should Buctootim's opinion be neutral when yours isn't ?

It is simply that, opinion, and each person colours theirs with experience, preference, and prejudice.

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Of course everyone has bias, I suppose some are just far more down the rabbit hole. Supporting Ukraine seems to have become some semi-enforced patriotic duty akin to supporting your local football team. For me, I try (and often fail) to view these large political events dispassionately as if I was Switzerland or an Alien observer. 

[Jonnyboy]

  On 08/02/2023 at 11:39, buctootim said:

Haha. My "financial interest in Ukraine" consists of going there for work paid for by my UK charity employer. I had one 'thing' there but have 15 or so platonic friends / work related aquaintances. Coversely my association with Russia goes back much longer. Maybe I'm a Putin shill?       

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Obviously everyone who is even mildly critical of the Western response is a Putin shill. 

https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/02/06/the-ukraine-war-in-the-light-of-the-un-charter/

[Jimmy_D]

  On 09/02/2023 at 20:17, Jonnyboy said:

Obviously everyone who is even mildly critical of the Western response is a Putin shill. 

https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/02/06/the-ukraine-war-in-the-light-of-the-un-charter/

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Nice to see you doing your bit for recycling bringing up those old fallacies yet again. I’ve lost count of how many times they’ve demonstrably been shown to be utterly ****witted now.

[badgerx16]

  On 09/02/2023 at 20:17, Jonnyboy said:

Of course everyone has bias, I suppose some are just far more down the rabbit hole. Supporting Ukraine seems to have become some semi-enforced patriotic duty akin to supporting your local football team. For me, I try (and often fail) to view these large political events dispassionately as if I was Switzerland or an Alien observer. 

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The problem with taking a 'Swiss' position is that eventually you are isolated and criticised by both sides. ( Often whilst accumulating their loot ).

If you look beyond Ukraine, consider how the other ex-Russian Empire territories view Putin's widely published ambitions. In the current conflict he has far exceeded his stated war aim, the 'liberation' of Luhansk and Donetsk and the security of Crimea, by expanding his land grab to include the Zaporizhzhia and Kherson oblasts. If the West does not stand up to him, what is to stop him feeling empowered and enabled to start  looking to the Baltic states, the Caucasus, or even Finland - all formerly part of the Tsarist Empire which he views as his duty to restore ?

[aintforever]

  On 09/02/2023 at 20:17, Jonnyboy said:

Of course everyone has bias, I suppose some are just far more down the rabbit hole. Supporting Ukraine seems to have become some semi-enforced patriotic duty akin to supporting your local football team. For me, I try (and often fail) to view these large political events dispassionately as if I was Switzerland or an Alien observer. 

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Ah, you’re a contrarian.

Edited 9 February, 2023 by aintforever

[badgerx16]

  On 09/02/2023 at 20:17, Jonnyboy said:

Obviously everyone who is even mildly critical of the Western response is a Putin shill. 

https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/02/06/the-ukraine-war-in-the-light-of-the-un-charter/

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How about some 'selective quotations" ?

 

"He correctly condemns the violation of article 2(4) of the UN Charter by Russia and the war crimes that have ensued, for which there must be accountability. "

"...as I described in a Counterpunch article published on 4 March 2022, in which I clearly condemned the Russian invasion of Ukraine as an egregious violation of Art. 2(4) of the UN Charter."

 

The problem with intellectuals dissecting complex political situations is that they seem to think the UN is able to operate as some sort of neutral mediating body, which with the structure of the Security Council it clearly cannot be, and that UN Charters can be enforced impassivley, with legitimate strength, and without bias - which is not possible as member states will always operate in their own self-interest, or that of their politically affiliated clique. China will always oppose the US, and vice versa; most of Africa will, at least tacitly, back up Russia, as will India in most things. Israel and the Arab nations will never agree on point of principle.

Whatever the individual's view regarding "NATO expansionism", if such a policy exists, is it not Ukraine's right as an independent democratic nation to make such decisions on it's International partnerships and direction for itself ? Just as Poland, Hungary ( to an extent ), Romania, Bulgaria, Chzechia, Slovakia, almost all of the Balkan ( former Yugoslavia ) states, Moldova, Georgia, and the Baltics have done ?

Edited 10 February, 2023 by badgerx16
an 'e' for an 'a'

[buctootim]

  On 09/02/2023 at 20:17, Jonnyboy said:

Obviously everyone who is even mildly critical of the Western response is a Putin shill. 

https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/02/06/the-ukraine-war-in-the-light-of-the-un-charter/

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Is that one of Alice Donovan’s stories? You know her- the Counterpunch author who turned out to be a Russian Government employee and the organiser behind pro Russian and Bashad propaganda in Syria

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 10/02/2023 at 10:35, buctootim said:

Is that one of Alice Donovan’s stories? You know her- the Counterpunch author who turned out to be a Russian Government employee and the organiser behind pro Russian and Bashad propaganda in Syria

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It says it's by Alfred de Zayas 🤷‍♂️

[buctootim]

  On 10/02/2023 at 12:13, Weston Super Saint said:

It says it's by Alfred de Zayas 🤷‍♂️

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The point is that the magazine has a history of being used by Russia for propaganda. Yet Johnny holds it up as independent . As always he has a simplistic view of the world 

[badgerx16]

Reports that Wagner Group have had to stop recruiting from prisons as prisoners refuse to join, knowing it is effectively a death sentence.

[badgerx16]

Just watched a video of Ukrainian troops dropping rolls of bin bags on the Russian trenches from drones, with notes attached asking the Russians to tidy their rubbish.

[Jonnyboy]

  On 09/02/2023 at 20:48, badgerx16 said:

The problem with taking a 'Swiss' position is that eventually you are isolated and criticised by both sides. ( Often whilst accumulating their loot ).

If you look beyond Ukraine, consider how the other ex-Russian Empire territories view Putin's widely published ambitions. In the current conflict he has far exceeded his stated war aim, the 'liberation' of Luhansk and Donetsk and the security of Crimea, by expanding his land grab to include the Zaporizhzhia and Kherson oblasts. If the West does not stand up to him, what is to stop him feeling empowered and enabled to start  looking to the Baltic states, the Caucasus, or even Finland - all formerly part of the Tsarist Empire which he views as his duty to restore ?

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The media like to portray Putin as insane. He would be insane to directly attack a NATO country and I reckon the chances of that are zero.

Trying to take Kiev at the start was sensible (cut the head off the snake). His aims after that failure are unknown but if the Western rhetoric is true it's a bloody drawn out war for years until pre 2014 borders are restored.

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 12/02/2023 at 22:57, Jonnyboy said:

The media like to portray Putin as insane. He would be insane to directly attack a NATO country and I reckon the chances of that are zero.

Trying to take Kiev at the start was sensible (cut the head off the snake). His aims after that failure are unknown but if the Western rhetoric is true it's a bloody drawn out war for years until pre 2014 borders are restored.

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Isn't doing the same thing over and over again the definition of insanity?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64616099

  Quote

Russian soldiers are dying in greater numbers in Ukraine this month than at any time since the first week of the invasion, according to Ukrainian data.

The Ukrainian data shows 824 Russian soldiers dying per day in February.

The figures were highlighted by the UK's Ministry of Defence. The figures cannot be verified - but the UK says the trends are "likely accurate".

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[egg]

  On 13/02/2023 at 07:40, Weston Super Saint said:

Isn't doing the same thing over and over again the definition of insanity?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64616099

 

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Surely inaccurate, unverified figures provided by Ukraine are as reliable as inaccurate, unverified figures provided by Russia? 

We're fed spin, ditto the Russian people. The truth will be somewhere in between.  

[badgerx16]

  On 13/02/2023 at 08:27, egg said:

Surely inaccurate, unverified figures provided by Ukraine are as reliable as inaccurate, unverified figures provided by Russia? 

We're fed spin, ditto the Russian people. The truth will be somewhere in between.  

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Russia's last official acknowledged KIA was just over 5k, given in September. Whilst Ukraine will almost certainly be over estimating Russian casualties, there is plenty of pictorial and video evidence from which bodies can be counted and reasonably extrapolated, and the total will be much closer to Ukraine's figure than anything the Kremlin might choose to publish.

[badgerx16]

Whatever the true casualty figures are, these 2 pages give a clear idea of the scale, ( these counts are of only visually verified and geo-located equipment losses );

Russia : https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html?m=1

Ukraine : https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html?m=1

 

[badgerx16]

  On 12/02/2023 at 22:57, Jonnyboy said:

The media like to portray Putin as insane. He would be insane to directly attack a NATO country and I reckon the chances of that are zero.

Trying to take Kiev at the start was sensible (cut the head off the snake). His aims after that failure are unknown but if the Western rhetoric is true it's a bloody drawn out war for years until pre 2014 borders are restored.

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What about his plans for Moldova ?

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/ukrainian-intelligence-helps-prevent-an-overthrow-in-moldova/

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 13/02/2023 at 08:27, egg said:

Surely inaccurate, unverified figures provided by Ukraine are as reliable as inaccurate, unverified figures provided by Russia? 

We're fed spin, ditto the Russian people. The truth will be somewhere in between.  

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No idea how accurate or reliable they are.

The intriguing bit for me is that these numbers were allegedly highlighted by the MoD and said to be 'likely accurate' 🤷‍♀️

[AlexLaw76]

Russia will run out of ammunition any time now, right?

This article really refers to the non-US nations....

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/west-running-out-ammunition-putin-ukraine-war-nato/

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 15/02/2023 at 03:33, AlexLaw76 said:

Russia will run out of ammunition any time now, right?

This article really refers to the non-US nations....

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/west-running-out-ammunition-putin-ukraine-war-nato/

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What an absolutely horseshit article.

The main quote seems to be :

  Quote

Both Ukraine and NATO are in danger of running out of ammunition and spare parts for heavy weapons, Jens Stoltenberg said.

 

He added that Western allies needed to stock up their own armouries while ensuring Kyiv received the weapons it needed “to win this war”

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You may as well add "man with log burning stove 'in danger' of running out of logs in the winter (unless of course he gets some more logs)".

What the article doesn't say is that whilst 'stocking up their own armouries', the Western allies will still have access to the microchips needed to make them work before they go bang, unlike Russia.