Russia

[egg]

  On 10/10/2022 at 19:42, buctootim said:

Belarus. But its really old tech. Like equipping your missiles with an Intel pentium c1995  

 

 

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So you're claiming that China and Iran rely on Belarus for their chip tech?! Taiwan can make them, but not China proper? Come on. 

[egg]

  On 10/10/2022 at 19:41, Jimmy_D said:

In the past 2-3 weeks, Russia have lost territory that took them months to take. Any progress on the front line has been minimal to none for months. Putin has been forced to use a significant amount of domestic political capital to partially mobilise and reinforce the Russian army, with limited effect. The limited supply of precision missiles is self demonstrating by how rare events like today have been. Sanctions really have been having an effect, and that's not an assumption. Instead of using precision missiles to target Ukraine's military capability, they've used them to target highly visible targets, that don't help them in any significant military way, but that instead can be used for propoganda both domestically and internationally. That appears to be the only way they can claim any sort of success currently, hence it sends a message of weakness.

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Do you have a military background? 

[Jimmy_D]

  On 10/10/2022 at 19:44, egg said:

So you're claiming that China and Iran rely on Belarus for their chip tech?! Taiwan can make them, but not China proper? Come on. 

Expand  

China tech shares sink as U.S. export curbs raise chip sector hurdles | Reuters

[buctootim]

  On 10/10/2022 at 19:42, buctootim said:

       

 

 

Expand  

 

Edited 10 October, 2022 by buctootim
messed up the edit :(

[buctootim]

  On 10/10/2022 at 19:44, egg said:

So you're claiming that China and Iran rely on Belarus for their chip tech?! Taiwan can make them, but not China proper? Come on. 

Expand  

Its really old tech. Like equipping your missiles with an Intel pentium c1995. Its not just processor power though - its lack of accurate GPS, lack of satellite correction. They often use ground contouring but lack the ability to update it, so everytime a new bulding goes up the missile gets confused. You saw that video of supposedly high tech Kalibr missiles. Old US HIMARS missiles land within a 5m radius 95% of the time. Latest Russian kalibrs land within a claimed 50m radius but in reality it seems to be a 500m radius - ie they miss by hundreds of metres mostly .        

Edited 10 October, 2022 by buctootim

[Jimmy_D]

  On 10/10/2022 at 19:46, egg said:

Do you have a military background? 

Expand  

Not personally, no, and I've never claimed to have one. I'll always be immensely grateful to those who fight, and allow people like me to not have to.

I have been doing a lot of reading/listening to many that do have a military background, for what it's worth, over the last few months, and I've always had an interest in military history.

[aintforever]

  On 10/10/2022 at 18:59, manji said:

Most targets were military and infrastructure.

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If that’s the case why did they wait until today to hit them whilst their military have been having their asses handed to them for more than a month? Lviv hadn’t been touched since the spring until today.

It was obviously just Putin desperately trying to have something that resembles a victory to show on TV.

[buctootim]

  On 10/10/2022 at 19:44, egg said:

So you're claiming that China and Iran rely on Belarus for their chip tech?! Taiwan can make them, but not China proper? Come on. 

Expand  

You think because China makes lots of electronics they make and design the chips? Whose chips are in the smartphones they make? Whose chips are in the laptops and tvs?   They are nearly all made under licence from British and American companies. They are nothing more than contractors. Break the IP and export restrictions and they lose their manfacturing base to Vietnam, Thailand and India.     

 

https://asiatimes.com/2022/08/russias-chips-failure-coming-home-to-roost/

https://mezha.media/en/2022/06/02/processors-with-a-frequency-not-exceeding-25-mhz-russia-and-belarus-go-back-to-the-1990s/

https://www.theregister.com/2022/06/06/taiwan_chips_russia/

Edited 10 October, 2022 by buctootim

[badgerx16]

  On 10/10/2022 at 18:44, manji said:

Not on a wind up. Extreme Fascism has been embedded in Ukro since 1900s. They have been massacring Russian natives since the Maiden 2014. Ukraine has been bolstered by USA because of its decline to destabilise Europe. Fuck US hegemony how many countries have they invaded and destabilised. Hundreds.

Ukraine has been prodding Russia with a stick for years. They are getting their just deserts.

sickened by western propaganda sucked too amazing how many airheads are lapping it up. 
Many examples Daily Mail said Russia was running out of missiles well their were 300 missile strikes today.

Expand  

Ah, I see you managed to pull your head out of Putin's arse long enough to post your daily dose of tripe.

[badgerx16]

  On 10/10/2022 at 18:59, manji said:

Most targets were military and infrastructure.

Expand  

 

  On 10/10/2022 at 19:22, Sheaf Saint said:

If you're so certain of this then would you be so good as to share your sources with us? Cheers.

Expand  

Manji is right, ( shock horror ); most targets were military and infrastructure. However, most targets were missed.

[egg]

  On 10/10/2022 at 19:53, Jimmy_D said:

Not personally, no, and I've never claimed to have one. I'll always be immensely grateful to those who fight, and allow people like me to not have to.

I have been doing a lot of reading/listening to many that do have a military background, for what it's worth, over the last few months, and I've always had an interest in military history.

Expand  

I share your gratitude, and although I appreciate you've not made claims, I  asked as you've talked about this war as if from a position of knowledge. Others have done similar. Seems that none of us know what we're talking about, just relying on what we're fed/assume/hope.

[buctootim]

  On 10/10/2022 at 20:00, egg said:

 Seems that none of us know what we're talking about, just relying on what we're fed/assume/hope.

Expand  

Nope. I dont make claims that Im not absolutely sure are true and accurate. The problem is you dont read the threads and simply jump in half baked. 

[egg]

  On 10/10/2022 at 19:55, buctootim said:

https://asiatimes.com/2022/08/russias-chips-failure-coming-home-to-roost/

https://mezha.media/en/2022/06/02/processors-with-a-frequency-not-exceeding-25-mhz-russia-and-belarus-go-back-to-the-1990s/

https://www.theregister.com/2022/06/06/taiwan_chips_russia/

Expand  

Iran and China have precision drones and weaponry. Who supplies them their parts? It won't be any if the countries you listed as the apparent only suppliers. If they can source them, ditto North Korea, then Russia can. 

[egg]

  On 10/10/2022 at 20:02, buctootim said:

Nope. I dont make claims that Im not absolutely sure are true and accurate. The problem is you dont read the threads and simply jump in half baked. 

Expand  

Forgive me, but you and others give the impression that you're armed with facts but you have as little actual knowledge as the rest of us!

[Jimmy_D]

  On 10/10/2022 at 20:03, egg said:

Iran and China have precision drones and weaponry. Who supplies them their parts? It won't be any if the countries you listed as the apparent only suppliers. If they can source them, ditto North Korea, then Russia can. 

Expand  

China in particular don't want to risk breaking sanctions and losing US trade. It's possible they're being circumvented to a certain extent, but if Chinese components were showing up regularly in exploded ordinance that's been fired at Ukraine, we'd know about it.

[buctootim]

  On 10/10/2022 at 20:06, egg said:

Forgive me, but you and others give the impression that you're armed with facts but you have as little actual knowledge as me

Expand  

Dont try and mitgate your ignorance by denigrating others.   

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 10/10/2022 at 18:59, manji said:

Limited 😂 you’ll believe anything. Most targets were military and infrastructure.

The vast majority of Neo-cons on here are going to get a nasty shock.

Expand  

If those were the targets then they’re not very good at hitting them.

[buctootim]

  On 10/10/2022 at 20:09, Jimmy_D said:

China in particular don't want to risk breaking sanctions and losing US trade. It's possible they're being circumvented to a certain extent, but if Chinese components were showing up regularly in exploded ordinance that's been fired at Ukraine, we'd know about it.

Expand  

Exactly. China wont do it because they have too much to lose. Thats why Russia is reduced to sourcing whatever it can from Iran and North korea - who both have very little of other trade to lose. 

[whelk]

I believe this

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-russian-forces-will-soon-be-down-to-last-supplies-of-fuel-after-kerch-bridge-attack-analysts-say-12717563

[buctootim]

  On 10/10/2022 at 20:19, whelk said:

I believe this

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-russian-forces-will-soon-be-down-to-last-supplies-of-fuel-after-kerch-bridge-attack-analysts-say-12717563

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No apparently Russia will win because other countries will smuggle fuel to them  

[egg]

  On 10/10/2022 at 20:10, buctootim said:

Dont try and mitgate your ignorance by denigrating others.   

Expand  

That's a crap response. You've given a definitive list of your belief of suppliers of parts for precision machinery, but swerved the issue of where china and Iran get them from. The truth is that i don't pretend to know details that aren't in the public domain, and I find it amazing that people with no greater knowledge try to pretend they know more than they do. 

[whelk]

  On 10/10/2022 at 20:26, egg said:

That's a crap response. You've given a definitive list of your belief of suppliers of parts for precision machinery, but swerved the issue of where china and Iran get them from. The truth is that i don't pretend to know details that aren't in the public domain, and I find it amazing that people with no greater knowledge try to pretend they know more than they do. 

Expand  

TBF some of the posters on here seem pretty clued up. Manji for example works at the Pentagon

[buctootim]

  On 10/10/2022 at 20:26, egg said:

That's a crap response. You've given a definitive list of your belief of suppliers of parts for precision machinery, but swerved the issue of where china and Iran get them from. The truth is that i don't pretend to know details that aren't in the public domain, and I find it amazing that people with no greater knowledge try to pretend they know more than they do. 

Expand  

I didnt swerve it you failed to read, again, as well as ignoring my questions about who produces the processors for China's smartphones and laptops and tvs - and why thats the case if their high tech industry is so great.   You dont need to know anything that isnt in the public domain, you simply need to read technical trade publications in addition to mainstream media  

Edited 10 October, 2022 by buctootim

[buctootim]

China's own media discussing something Egg insists isnt happening. 

 

 

Edited 10 October, 2022 by buctootim

[Dman]

  On 10/10/2022 at 18:44, manji said:

Not on a wind up. Extreme Fascism has been embedded in Ukro since 1900s. They have been massacring Russian natives since the Maiden 2014. Ukraine has been bolstered by USA because of its decline to destabilise Europe. Fuck US hegemony how many countries have they invaded and destabilised. Hundreds.

Ukraine has been prodding Russia with a stick for years. They are getting their just deserts.

sickened by western propaganda sucked too amazing how many airheads are lapping it up. 
Many examples Daily Mail said Russia was running out of missiles well their were 300 missile strikes today.

Expand  

Yes, the Russians who’ve a history of acting like a big bully (for example state backed assassination’s on British soil), are the innocent party here… 

You’re unwell manji son. Let’s hope MI5 have a track on your internet history, because based on the shit the dribble on about on here, fuck knows what your capable of.

[egg]

  On 10/10/2022 at 20:27, whelk said:

TBF some of the posters on here seem pretty clued up. Manji for example works at the Pentagon

Expand  

Fair point!! 

[egg]

  On 10/10/2022 at 20:35, buctootim said:

China's own media discussing something Egg insists isnt happening. 

 

 

Expand  

I'll ask again. If China can't supply their own chips, who does? It ain't Taiwan. 

[buctootim]

  On 10/10/2022 at 20:39, egg said:

I'll ask again. If China can't supply their own chips, who does? It ain't Taiwan. 

Expand  

It been answered already, try reading. China is allowed to manufacture some mainstream chips under licence - such as from ARM in the UK and Intel in the US. That enables them to mass manufacture high tech goods. We get cheap smartphones they get jobs. What they do not get access to are the more advanced and sophistcated chips used in civil avionics and arms.  Although China is trying to develop its own semiconductor industries they are still a decade or more behind. In any event even if they had them they will not jeopardise hundreds of billions of trade with the US and Europe for a few hundred million dollars worth of sales to Russia.  

Edited 10 October, 2022 by buctootim

[egg]

  On 10/10/2022 at 20:45, buctootim said:

It been answered already, try reading. China is allowed to manufacture some mainstream chips under licence - such as from ARM in the UK and Intel in the US. That enables them to mass manufacture high tech goods. We get cheap smartphones they get jobs. What they do not get access to are the more advanced and sophistcated chips used in civil avionics and arms.  Although China is trying to develop its own semiconductor industries they are still a decade or more behind. In any event even if they had them they will not jeopardise hundreds of billions of trade with the US and Europe for a few hundred million dollars wotrth of sales to Russia.  

Expand  

So your definitive list of chip suppliers which didn't include China wasn't a definitive list. Gotcha. 

As for China, the western world is more fucked without their products and production than it is without Russian oil and gas. 

I'll leave it here mate. Knock yourself out if you want the last word. 

[buctootim]

  On 10/10/2022 at 20:51, egg said:

So your definitive list of chip suppliers which didn't include China wasn't a definitive list. Gotcha. 

As for China, the western world is more fucked without their products and production than it is without Russian oil and gas. 

I'll leave it here mate. Knock yourself out if you want the last word. 

Expand  

I see you've joined the tedious wanker grouping. I used to think better of you 

[egg]

  On 10/10/2022 at 20:52, buctootim said:

I see you've joined the tedious wanker grouping. I used to think better of you 

Expand  

At last word that was credible I'd let you have, but nonsense bollox like that I won't. Let's face it mate, you pretend to know what you're talking about when you don't. Don't squinny when you get called out. 

[buctootim]

The temperatures on the Crimea bridge got hot enough to melt steel, and Russia reckon 'nah its safe enough to use' 

 

[moonraker]

  On 10/10/2022 at 20:00, egg said:

I share your gratitude, and although I appreciate you've not made claims, I  asked as you've talked about this war as if from a position of knowledge. Others have done similar. Seems that none of us know what we're talking about, just relying on what we're fed/assume/hope.

Expand  

I do have a military/defence background.  Some of the most knowledgeable analysts of military capability have no military background but do have a deep understanding of military campaigns, doctrine and what works.  As I said above logistics are critical to a successful military campaign.  But you also have to be fully prepared.  Whilst the Russians started with some well trained troops these cannot be replaced by conscription.  The very minimum training required for a half decent infantry soldier is 6 months, other combat troops, artillery, armour etc. take longer to train  and that assumes you have sufficient equipment, supplies and experienced trainers.  You then need capable and experienced NCOs and junior officers to lead them in the field.  Russian doctrine is top down command with little if any autonomy for commanders at the operational and tactical levels.  When you add to this the questionable quality of their maintenance, reliability, and operation of their combat systems, they have a serious problem that I contend their military and political culture is incapable of fixing, certainly not within the time frame of “The Special Military Operation”.  A final caveat, there is never certainty in war, but if I were a betting man I know where my money would go.

Edited 10 October, 2022 by moonraker

[cloggy saint]

  On 10/10/2022 at 21:10, buctootim said:

The temperatures on the Crimea bridge got hot enough to melt steel, and Russia reckon 'nah its safe enough to use' 

 

Expand  

 

[AlexLaw76]

  On 10/10/2022 at 21:31, moonraker said:

I do have a military/defence background.  Some of the most knowledgeable analysts of military capability have no military background but do have a deep understanding of military campaigns, doctrine and what works.  As I said above logistics are critical to a successful military campaign.  But you also have to be fully prepared.  Whilst the Russians started with some well trained troops these cannot be replaced by conscription.  The very minimum training required for a half decent infantry soldier is 6 months, other combat troops, artillery, armour etc. take longer to train  and that assumes you have sufficient equipment, supplies and experienced trainers.  You then need capable and experienced NCOs and junior officers to lead them in the field.  Russian doctrine is top down command with little if any autonomy for commanders at the operational and tactical levels.  When you add to this the questionable quality of their maintenance, reliability, and operation of their combat systems, they have a serious problem that I contend their military and political culture is incapable of fixing, certainly not within the time frame of “The Special Military Operation”.  A final caveat, there is never certainty in war, but if I were a betting man I know where my money would go.

Expand  

Which they mitigate against with sheer weight in numbers and playing the long(er) game.  The numbers they have (in every aspect) dwarfs anything we could even contemplate (well, not the USA, but NATO is the USA in a real war).

There is a reason NATO (the USA) did not stop this back in March with a bit of shock and awe, and we have given the Black Sea a total 'wide berth'.........

Whilst we laugh at Russia apparently running low on munitions.  It was war-gamed fairly recently and the UK (not NATO) would have likely run out of things that go bang (our entire conventional inventory) after about 8 days in a similar conflict.  8 friggin days!  

 

 

Edited 11 October, 2022 by AlexLaw76

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 10/10/2022 at 20:39, egg said:

I'll ask again. If China can't supply their own chips, who does? It ain't Taiwan. 

Expand  

China can and do make their own chips.  They then put them in the 'fake' iPhones that they make.  Have you ever used one of them?  Not very good are they?

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 11/10/2022 at 04:58, AlexLaw76 said:

Which they mitigate against with sheer weight in numbers and playing the long(er) game.  The numbers they have (in every aspect) dwarfs anything we could even contemplate (well, not the USA, but NATO is the USA in a real war).

There is a reason NATO (the USA) did not stop this back in March with a bit of shock and awe, and we have given the Black Sea a total 'wide berth'.........

Whilst we laugh at Russia apparently running low on munitions.  It was war-gamed fairly recently and the UK (not NATO) would have likely run out of things that go bang (our entire conventional inventory) after about 8 days in a similar conflict.  8 friggin days!  

 

 

Expand  

Things are looking up.  It used to be a weekend. A friggin weekend.

[Weston Super Saint]

Manji's military targets 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-63208576

 

[egg]

  On 11/10/2022 at 06:08, Weston Super Saint said:

China can and do make their own chips.  They then put them in the 'fake' iPhones that they make.  Have you ever used one of them?  Not very good are they?

Expand  

Indeed they do. Although their chips may not be top of the tech charts, we seem to agree that they make them. 

[badgerx16]

  On 11/10/2022 at 04:58, AlexLaw76 said:

 

There is a reason NATO (the USA) did not stop this back in March with a bit of shock and awe,

 

 

Expand  

That reason is that NATO is a DEFENSIVE alliance, and if they had done that it would have kicked off WW3.

[AlexLaw76]

  On 11/10/2022 at 06:42, badgerx16 said:

That reason is that NATO is a DEFENSIVE alliance, and if they had done that it would have kicked off WW3.

Expand  

Defensive alliance that likes to take the fight across the world

Edited 11 October, 2022 by AlexLaw76

[badgerx16]

  On 11/10/2022 at 08:49, AlexLaw76 said:

Defensive alliance that like to take the right across the world

Expand  

So what should they have done ?

1) What they are currently doing

2) Pile in full bore, as you put it "shock and awe", against Russia

3) Sit back and twiddle their thumbs whilst Ukraine gets crushed

[Lighthouse]

  On 11/10/2022 at 04:58, AlexLaw76 said:

Whilst we laugh at Russia apparently running low on munitions.  It was war-gamed fairly recently and the UK (not NATO) would have likely run out of things that go bang (our entire conventional inventory) after about 8 days in a similar conflict.  8 friggin days!  

Expand  

Well that's alright then, we'd have wiped out most of their military in about four.

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 11/10/2022 at 06:41, egg said:

Indeed they do. Although their chips may not be top of the tech charts, we seem to agree that they make them. 

Expand  

I don’t think you understand the range of complexities involved. It’s one thing to be able to make these things, quite another to be able to design a complex one.

[moonraker]

  On 11/10/2022 at 04:58, AlexLaw76 said:

Which they mitigate against with sheer weight in numbers and playing the long(er) game.  The numbers they have (in every aspect) dwarfs anything we could even contemplate (well, not the USA, but NATO is the USA in a real war).

There is a reason NATO (the USA) did not stop this back in March with a bit of shock and awe, and we have given the Black Sea a total 'wide berth'.........

Whilst we laugh at Russia apparently running low on munitions.  It was war-gamed fairly recently and the UK (not NATO) would have likely run out of things that go bang (our entire conventional inventory) after about 8 days in a similar conflict.  8 friggin days!  

 

 

Expand  

Meaningless, the U.K. has no plans to unilaterally invade one of its neighbours.  We are members of NATO for collective security, international collaboration has so many more benefits than nationalistic posturing.  I am not laughing at Russia just painting a picture of where they are.  Numbers are meaningless if you do not have the command, leadership, morale and equipment to use them. The idea the U.S. could have stopped it is absurd, no NATO country was attacked it would have meant the US declaring war on Russia.  History of warfare is littered with much larger armies being routed by smaller better motivated and equipped opponents.  The definition of madness is to continue to do the same thing even when it fails.

[egg]

  On 11/10/2022 at 09:17, Whitey Grandad said:

I don’t think you understand the range of complexities involved. It’s one thing to be able to make these things, quite another to be able to design a complex one.

Expand  

Its easy to underestimate the Chinese. There was an IT security dude on radio 4 this morning talking about the threat to the west of China and Chinese tech. Amongst what they're doing is trying to introduce their version of gps as a worldwide standard, or at least amongst much of the world. Now in use by 120 countries. He was alluding to a Russian tie in, ie assistance to developing countries ok condition of military bases, and absorbing Chinese tech with constant tracking and data gathering. 

No disrespect Whitey, but it's laughable that people think that China can't produce a chip to guide a bomb.

[spyinthesky]

I wonder what the feedback from Russia would have been if Boris/Liz Truss, aided by her swivel eyed supporters, had decided to invade Ireland on the premise that the inhabitants mainly spoke English and were under English control for centuries until the end of WW1?

[spyinthesky]

  On 11/10/2022 at 09:39, egg said:

Its easy to underestimate the Chinese. There was an IT security dude on radio 4 this morning talking about the threat to the west of China and Chinese tech. Amongst what they're doing is trying to introduce their version of gps as a worldwide standard, or at least amongst much of the world. Now in use by 120 countries. He was alluding to a Russian tie in, ie assistance to developing countries ok condition of military bases, and absorbing Chinese tech with constant tracking and data gathering. 

No disrespect Whitey, but it's laughable that people think that China can't produce a chip to guide a bomb.

Expand  

I think the Chinese have been buying up all the rare earth and other ingredients that go into chips so they are probably well ahead of the west in being able to develop and produce cutting edge technology going forward.
One of the most advanced countries who produce chips is Taiwan, which probably underscores China's ambition is taking over the country.

[Colinjb]

  On 11/10/2022 at 09:39, egg said:

Its easy to underestimate the Chinese. There was an IT security dude on radio 4 this morning talking about the threat to the west of China and Chinese tech. Amongst what they're doing is trying to introduce their version of gps as a worldwide standard, or at least amongst much of the world. Now in use by 120 countries. He was alluding to a Russian tie in, ie assistance to developing countries ok condition of military bases, and absorbing Chinese tech with constant tracking and data gathering. 

No disrespect Whitey, but it's laughable that people think that China can't produce a chip to guide a bomb.

Expand  

Strikes me that the issue isn't going be getting hold of chips, it's getting hold of the right ones. 

If the ones needed for their guided systems are specifically based on western technology/licenses then the weapon itself would need to be redesigned to cope with some still capable, but not entirely compatible chinese tech. The time/expertise needed to do that during a conflict is where Russia would struggle.

[sadoldgit]

  On 10/10/2022 at 18:44, manji said:

Not on a wind up. Extreme Fascism has been embedded in Ukro since 1900s. They have been massacring Russian natives since the Maiden 2014. Ukraine has been bolstered by USA because of its decline to destabilise Europe. Fuck US hegemony how many countries have they invaded and destabilised. Hundreds.

Ukraine has been prodding Russia with a stick for years. They are getting their just deserts.

sickened by western propaganda sucked too amazing how many airheads are lapping it up. 
Many examples Daily Mail said Russia was running out of missiles well their were 300 missile strikes today.

Expand  

Just deserts? On what planet does “prodding with a stick” justify the razing of cities, towns and villages and the butchering and raping of countless hundreds of innocent civilians? I accept that not everything is black and white and that Ukraine are not whiter than white, but your excuses for Putin’s genocidal and megalomaniac actions are, quite frankly, sickening.