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whelk

By whelk
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Referendum on Moscow to officially become territory of Wales  

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  1. 1. Referendum on Moscow to officially become territory of Wales

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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 09/05/2022 at 18:39, kyle04 said:

All good points, which begs the question why allow the ceremony to take place at all (particularly now, and I assume it's an annual event?)

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They didnt. The Polish police advised against holding it but the Russian Ambassador ignored them and went anyway. 

Another overlooked point is the Putin is directly implicated in the plane crash which killed the Polish President and 94 other people. The Poles hate the Russians for many many 24 carat reasons. The depth of division this war is opening up between central Europe and the pacifist 'dont interfere with our exports to Russia and cheap gas' Germany / France axis can't be underestimated. 

 https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/polish-panel-russia-polish-leaders-plane-crash-84011174  

 

 

Edited by buctootim
kyle04

kyle04

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 09/05/2022 at 18:44, Jimmy_D said:

Apparently they cancelled the flyover portion of the parade too.

Claimed to be due to bad weather, but it seems that weather was better than last year when the flyover went ahead.

My gut feeling is that either they got some sort of intelligence that an anti-air missile attack was possible, or Putin got paranoid for some reason.

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That would have been worth the price of admission, to see a few Russian SU jets spiralling into the Kremlin!

Edited by kyle04
badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
  On 09/05/2022 at 18:38, buctootim said:

No, its correct. The maps above show what Molottov and Ribbentrop agreed and what actually happended on the ground. 

 

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Oh I know what happened with the Pact, but my argument is that it was accepted by both sides that it was a fig leaf, and bound to be broken once one or both of the megalomaniacal leaders decided to show their true intentions. There was no way that 2 such ideologically opposed powers could exist as peaceful neighbours for long.

kyle04

kyle04

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 09/05/2022 at 18:45, buctootim said:

They didnt. The Polish police advised against holding it but the Russian Ambassador ignored them and went anyway. 

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Ordered to by Putin no doubt. Well they got was was coming to them I suppose. There was a time when diplomats were untouchable, not if they're Russian it seems.

I think you're right about the European divisions becoming exposed, but you can't underestimate self interest. It's well known that Trump (of all people) called out Germany for it's reliance on Russian gas for example, and France is quite happy for others to do the dirty work, for a change. Maybe some good will emerge from this madness in time, where countries do not rely so much on rogue states for their energy neeeds and economic security.

Edited by kyle04
badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted

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Apparently yesterday, whilst the Victory Parade was taking place in Moscow, a Ukrainian armoured brigade held it's own event with a parade of captured tanks.

badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 10/05/2022 at 21:01, Jonnyboy said:

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/183040

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 So what we should have done is simply sit by and let Putin 'de-nazify' and de-militarise Ukraine, seizing as much of it's territory as he wants ? Do you think that if the West had sat idly by there would not have been the massacres of unarmed civilians, the obliteration of towns and cities, the looting and raping, nor the deportations of large numbers to Siberia ? Of course there is a bias in Western reporting, but NOBODY forced Putin's hand here., and he is solely to blame.

 Was Ukraine threatening to invade Russia ? Perhaps at some point it might have tried to take back the occupied parts that Russia had annexed, but realistically that 'frozen war' would have stretched on because no Ukrainian leader would have thought that attacking it's, ( on paper ), larger and much more powerful neighbour was a good idea.

 Looking at things dispassionately, what Putin has done is to strengthen the thing he sees as his biggest threat - NATO, beyond even it's wildest expectations. Sweden and Finland, both firmly historically neutral, are now likely to join, without any great pressure from the existing members, but as a response to Russian threats. Germany and Japan, both of whose constitutions are strictly based on self-defence within their territorial borders, are sending military aid to Ukraine, and even Switzerland looks like it is going to move from it's non-aligned neutrality.

 It is always easy to sit in our comfortable Western homes, with their security of energy and food supplies and plenty of consumer goodies, and set the World to rights; whataboutery over Yemen or some other 'distant' conflict in a hot and dusty foreign land, or wringing our hands over whether previous military interventions were "illegal" or "immoral".  The truth is that the World is imperfect, and everybody wants to look after "number one", countries define and defend their National Interests, and in the current situation things have come too uncomfortably close for the West not to act.

 

Edited by badgerx16
  • Like 1
Jimmy_D

Jimmy_D

Posted
Posted
  On 10/05/2022 at 21:01, Jonnyboy said:

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/183040

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Russia invades a soverign territory, using any means, including rape, mass murder, and torture of civilians, to attempt to force the invasion to be successful.

Said soverign territory asks for help.

Help is provided to said soverign territory, and turns out to be extremely effective.

No actions have occurred that come anywhere near justifying Russia either initiating this, or carrying it out in the way they have.

NATO isn't committing any crime by seeking to allow new countries to join, nor are countries committing a crime by seeking to join NATO.

Russian paranoia, leading to threats to soverign countries not to do something, that they are perfectly entited to do, in no way justifies it.

This has backfired on Russia in almost every way it's possible to backfire.

Countries are more justified than in ever in seeking to join the protection that NATO provides, and NATO is now stronger and more unified than it's ever been.

Russia's army has gone from something that invoked a certain level of apprehension, respect, even fear, to being a source of ridicule, derision, and utter disgust.

Russia is now more isolated than it's ever been. It's accelerated its biggest market in it's efforts to move away from carbon based energy, and Russia biggest source of wealth. That will never return for them, and it will take decades for Russia to get back just to where they were before they invaded.

  • Like 2
  • Confused 1
kyle04

kyle04

Posted
Posted
  On 11/05/2022 at 16:12, buctootim said:

Spectacular Russian tank turrent launch captured by Chinese tv. Got to be 250 feet up. 

 

 

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That's a fucking beaut ! It's rare to see one actually detonate like that, it explains the condition of the many destroyed T72/80 tanks with pictures taken long after they've burnt out. Russia's lost about a third of it's entire active tank inventory already.

  • Haha 1
kyle04

kyle04

Posted
Posted
  On 11/05/2022 at 16:37, badgerx16 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/11/ukraine-refugees-who-enter-uk-via-ireland-may-be-sent-to-rwanda-mps-told

 

 

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Ain't gonna happen, the outcry would be too great even for this bunch of talentless bastards we call a government. BJ's very publicly stuck his neck out for Ukraine, he can't very well sanction sending the victims of the war half way round the world because our civil service are dragging their heels dealing with visa applications.

Jimmy_D

Jimmy_D

Posted
Posted

See that the UK has signed Joint Security Agreements with Sweden and Finland today.

That'll have a twofold effect in terms of them joining NATO, which now looks inevitible.

Firstly it'll provide the UK's military as security during the period that they've applied to NATO but before they join. 

Secondly that security makes any application to NATO likely to run much smoother. It's far less likely they'll be drawn into a conflict as a result, and vastly reduces one of the possible objections that there could have been to slow down any application.

aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted
  On 11/05/2022 at 17:27, kyle04 said:

Ain't gonna happen, the outcry would be too great even for this bunch of talentless bastards we call a government. BJ's very publicly stuck his neck out for Ukraine, he can't very well sanction sending the victims of the war half way round the world because our civil service are dragging their heels dealing with visa applications.

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What’s the difference between someone fleeing a war zone in Ukraine and someone fleeing Syria. Surely they all have to be treated the same?

  • Like 2
Millbrook Saint

Millbrook Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 11/05/2022 at 21:31, aintforever said:

What’s the difference between someone fleeing a war zone in Ukraine and someone fleeing Syria. Surely they all have to be treated the same?

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Think Ricky Gervais summed it up rather nicely in his standup when he said how he loves to help refugees and in fact even went to Dover to help out, as the first boat arrived he called out woman and children first..... oh, just you young men is it.

I see the biggest difference being the men of Ukraine have stayed behind to fight for their country, whilst ensuring their women and children are taken to safety, the people fleeing Syria just seem to be young guys who have left because they want a better life, I don't blame them one little bit, but at the same time I don't have the same sympathy for people who have just abandoned their families so they can improve their lives.

I got a friend who has applied to take in a Ukrainian family, mother and 2 children, he was speaking to them over zoom whilst they were still in Ukraine, on speaking to the father, the father misunderstood him and thought my friend said he's looking forward to them staying with him, the father replied, 'oh no, I stay and fight the invaders, you look after my family and when the invaders are dead I drive to England and get my family.  That is someone I respect and want to give refuge to.

  • Like 1
kyle04

kyle04

Posted
Posted
  On 11/05/2022 at 21:31, aintforever said:

What’s the difference between someone fleeing a war zone in Ukraine and someone fleeing Syria. Surely they all have to be treated the same?

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I never cited a comparison, but the Ukraine conflict is at the forefront of the west's attentions. If you think desperate Ukrainian woman and children, not knowing if their husbands/fathers have been killed defending their country can be likened to mainly young men fleeing their country without their family then you either haven't thought this through or you're just a bit dense.

Jimmy_D

Jimmy_D

Posted
Posted

Oh... that's a huge shift in Ukraine's favour...

China has apparently recognised all of Ukraine, including Donbas, Donetsk, and Crimea as Ukrainian.

aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted
  On 11/05/2022 at 22:21, kyle04 said:

I never cited a comparison, but the Ukraine conflict is at the forefront of the west's attentions. If you think desperate Ukrainian woman and children, not knowing if their husbands/fathers have been killed defending their country can be likened to mainly young men fleeing their country without their family then you either haven't thought this through or you're just a bit dense.

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So you would send any male Ukrainian refugees to Rwanda?

  • Like 1
Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 11/05/2022 at 23:34, aintforever said:

So you would send any male Ukrainian refugees to Rwanda?

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Surely they should be sent back to Ukraine?

https://www.dw.com/en/ukrainian-men-on-conscription-laws/av-61505380#:~:text=As the Ukrainian army suffers,drafted to the front lines.

  Quote

As the Ukrainian army suffers losses in battle, more men are being called up to serve. For now, only reservists are obliged, but all men deemed eligible are banned from leaving the country and could be drafted to the front lines.

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Jimmy_D

Jimmy_D

Posted
Posted
  On 12/05/2022 at 03:44, skintsaint said:

Where did you see/read/hear that?

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https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/3228896-china-confirms-nonrecognition-of-attempted-annexation-of-crimea-and-ban-on-contacts-with-occupation-authorities.html

If it’s confirmed, sounds like it’s not so much coming out in support of Ukraine, but a combination of China recognising which way the wind is blowing in Ukraine, self interest in not wanting their stance on Crimea to undermine their their stance on Taiwan, and not wanting to get drawn into backing up Russia if Ukraine moves to liberate Crimea.

That would still be helpful for Ukraine in terms of what Putin can do.

My gut feeling, China thinks there’s a small possibility Putin would use Ukraine moving on Crimea as an excuse for escalation that they don’t want to see.

  • Haha 1
kyle04

kyle04

Posted
Posted

Isn't China's stance on Taiwan the same as Russia's stance on Crimea prior to the annexation though? Now it's saying Russia was wrong to take Crimea, as China would be to take Taiwan. The possible reclaiming of Crimea is a long way off yet though, possibly years if Russia continue their campaign by throwing more men and machines at it. They need to control the Donbas and the southern land strip first, blow the Kerch bridge then have a go at Crimea.

Jimmy_D

Jimmy_D

Posted
Posted
  On 12/05/2022 at 13:31, kyle04 said:

Isn't China's stance on Taiwan the same as Russia's stance on Crimea prior to the annexation though? Now it's saying Russia was wrong to take Crimea, as China would be to take Taiwan. The possible reclaiming of Crimea is a long way off yet though, possibly years if Russia continue their campaign by throwing more men and machines at it. They need to control the Donbas and the southern land strip first, blow the Kerch bridge then have a go at Crimea.

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The formation of Ukraine is a settled issue. Russia in effect recognised that by holding the sham vote for Crimea to break away.

Although the circumstances leading to them were very different, in effect both Crimea and Taiwan have unilaterally declared independence without ‘permission’. Supporting Russia’s claims to Crimea could undermine China’s policy that Taiwan is Chinese.

farawaysaint

farawaysaint

Posted
Posted

Given Finland’s stated intention to join Nato I for one hope with all my heart Russia invade as is their god given right to protect their borders from western aggression.

  • Confused 1
whelk

whelk

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Will this invasion be used as a case study for GCSE Military tactics as to what a completely inept bald cunt Putin is? 

badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 12/05/2022 at 18:37, whelk said:

Twats are getting battered

 

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It is reported that the battalion commander at the river crossing had kept back his recon troops as his personal bodyguard after threats were made against him by his tank crews.

Edited by badgerx16
Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted

China will never do anything other than look out for China. They know all of this is wrong but they’re ‘keeping their powder dry until they’ve figured out how to play this and which side is going to ‘win’.

whelk

whelk

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 12/05/2022 at 19:11, Lighthouse said:

China will never do anything other than look out for China. They know all of this is wrong but they’re ‘keeping their powder dry until they’ve figured out how to play this and which side is going to ‘win’.

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China are nearly as big a cunts as Russia. See Hong Kong

whelk

whelk

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 12/05/2022 at 18:52, badgerx16 said:

It is reported that the battalion commander at the river crossing had kept back his recon troops as his personal bodyguard after threats were made against him by his tank crews.

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It is only going to get worse. Morale amongst the troops must be on the floor.

farawaysaint

farawaysaint

Posted
Posted
  On 12/05/2022 at 20:33, whelk said:

China are nearly as big a cunts as Russia. See Hong Kong

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China have border disputes with literally every single one of their neighbours and that is without the “south China sea”. They are just as bad to be honest they are just more intelligent in their methods (like the method of dealing with the uighurs vs the Chechnian wars.)

Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

Posted
Posted

A lengthy thread, and I know nothing of the author so can't verify thd validity of her claims, but it's consistent with many other reports.

Things are going from bad to worse for Russia. Whatever the true objective was, there's no way they can achieve it now. 

  • Like 1

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