Arsenal’s White Shirts (Split)

[Teddeer]

Just wondering how this 'No more red' campaign fits in with taking the knee and BLM.

[Minsk]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

I get the whole white shirts thing but I'm surprised Arsenal are allowed white numbers as well. If there's a crowded penalty area or melee of some sort, it might make it a bit tricky to book the right player.

 

31 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Just wondering how this 'No more red' campaign fits in with taking the knee and BLM.

Indeed. Good to see such a thing being highlighted, etc, but not sure they really thought this through and surprised they were allowed to do it.

1. No more red - so removed the red from their home shirt which they weren't allowed to wear anyway.

2. Apart from no numbers/names identifiable for the officials, wore the same colour shorts as the opposition.

3. The only thing of colour on the shirt was in red! (The FA Cup logo) apart from the black 'say no to racism' underneath it.....

4. Assume white kit was chosen because they believe most knife/violent crime in north London is committed by white teenagers?

5. They lost to a team wearing red!!

As for the match, Forest well deserved the win. Think they will enjoy having The Foxes on their patch too. Spence had a great game.

[whelk]

Lol at the Saintsweb gammon pulling apart a healthy initiative.

[Teddeer]

26 minutes ago, Minsk said:

 

Indeed. Good to see such a thing being highlighted, etc, but not sure they really thought this through and surprised they were allowed to do it.

1. No more red - so removed the red from their home shirt which they weren't allowed to wear anyway.

2. Apart from no numbers/names identifiable for the officials, wore the same colour shorts as the opposition.

3. The only thing of colour on the shirt was in red! (The FA Cup logo) apart from the black 'say no to racism' underneath it.....

4. Assume white kit was chosen because they believe most knife/violent crime in north London is committed by white teenagers?

5. They lost to a team wearing red!!

As for the match, Forest well deserved the win. Think they will enjoy having The Foxes on their patch too. Spence had a great game.

But my understanding is that No More Red is a campaign to reduce the number of young people being murdered in London by being stabbed. Not quite sure how you can promote that as well as taking the knee and supporting BLM. They seem to be at odds with each other to me.

Edited 9 January, 2022 by Teddeer

[whelk]

1 minute ago, Teddeer said:

But my understanding is that No More Red is a campaign to reduce the number of young people being murdered in London by being stabbed. Not quite sure how you can promote that as well as taking the knee and supporting BLM. They seem to be at odds with each other to me.

Is that because you are incredibly stupid maybe?

[Teddeer]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

Is that because you are incredibly stupid maybe?

Could be. Maybe you could point out why you think that.

[whelk]

Well why does an initiative to give kids an alternative to gang life have any conflict with the BLM movement to highlight issues black people have?

Edited 9 January, 2022 by whelk

[Teddeer]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

Well why does an initiative to give kids an alternative to gang life have any conflict with the BLM movement to highlight issues black people have?

Fair enough.

[Matthew Le God]

17 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

But my understanding is that No More Red is a campaign to reduce the number of young people being murdered in London by being stabbed. Not quite sure how you can promote that as well as taking the knee and supporting BLM. They seem to be at odds with each other to me.

Why do you think they are 'at odds with each other'?

[Teddeer]

14 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Why do you think they are 'at odds with each other'?

Listen, I hope it works and makes a difference, I really do because something needs to be done. Just have my doubts and will leave it at that.

[Matthew Le God]

3 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Listen, I hope it works and makes a difference, I really do because something needs to be done. Just have my doubts and will leave it at that.

Why do you think they are 'at odds with each other'?

[Teddeer]

Just a perception. As I said, I'll leave it at that.

[Matthew Le God]

2 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Just a perception. As I said, I'll leave it at that.

Why can't you explain it? It isn't an unreasonable question. 

One wants equality for black people, the other wants to reduce knife crime. So where is the 'being at odds with each other'?

Edited 9 January, 2022 by Matthew Le God

[whelk]

1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

Why can't you explain it? It isn't an unreasonable question. 

One wants equality for black people, the other wants to reduce knife crime. So where is the 'being at odds with each other'?

I have already answered him you plum and he has explicitly said leave it at that.

[Teddeer]

1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

Why can't you explain it? It isn't an unreasonable question. 

One wants equality for black people, the other wants to reduce knife crime. So where is the being at odds with each other?

I don't have to explain anything to you and I've said more than once that I'll leave it at that so maybe you should respect that. 

[aintforever]

Just now, Teddeer said:

I don't have to explain anything to you and I've said more than once that I'll leave it at that so maybe you should respect that. 

Why don’t you just admit you are talking bollocks.

[Matthew Le God]

9 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

I don't have to explain anything to you and I've said more than once that I'll leave it at that so maybe you should respect that. 

It is a forum... forums for discussion not just a list of statements. You said something, all I did was ask for clarification. It wasn't an unreasonable request. Puzzling why you are reticent to explaining.

[Toadhall Saint]

And this has what to do with saints exactly?

[Ex Lion Tamer]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

Lol at the Saintsweb gammon pulling apart a healthy initiative.

Reminds me of when someone put a banner over the M3 warning about the climate emergency and all the locals on Facebook were more concerned about it distracting drivers

[Saint Billy]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

It is a forum... forums for discussion not just a list of statements. You said something, all I did was ask for clarification. It wasn't an unreasonable request. Puzzling why you are reticent to explaining.

For God's sake give it a rest man. 

[tajjuk]

I read about this like a week or so ago and my reaction was 'oh ok, seems pretty cool to highlight the issue, hope it has an impact'. Then I moved on with my live and completely forgot about it, until this thread because I thought it has to be the most harmless, non-controversial thing ever to highlight a clear issue that surely everyone would be on the side of, right? 

I do honestly wonder how they get through life when their reaction to something like this is not pretty much what I said above or something similar, the people things get bothered about or worked up about or have to comment about it, it's baffling. 

I honestly feel someone could start a campaign to end child deaths due to cancer or something and some of you lot would still being taking some issue with it. 

Edited 9 January, 2022 by tajjuk

[Pamplemousse]

MLG is against this initiative by the way, the colours of the shirt names and numbers on the back didn't comply with the FA regulations about having to be a contrasting colour to aid broadcasters

[saintrich]

13 hours ago, Minsk said:

 

4. Assume white kit was chosen because they believe most knife/violent crime in north London is committed by white teenagers?

 

Probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

It's called no more red, because blood is red. 

Arsenal's traditional colours (why are you even thinking about whether they should have been in their home or away kit, that's completely not the point) are red and white, so take away the red and that leaves white. 

If you took red off one of their away kits it would probably be a little bit of piping that no one would even notice. The whole striking thing about the kit is that there is no colour. If there is no colour its white, that's just the way it is. A blank canvas is white. If I bought my son a 'paint your own TV character figurine' it would be white and he would paint colours on.

Why would it have anything to do with white teenagers. Bonkers.

[benjii]

I can explain:

Tedeer wanted to post something about blacks doing crime and about BLM being bad and any problems faced by blacks being the result of all the blacks. However, he was worried that he might be a bit of a racist.

He hoped that by hinting at this, someone would post something that would give some validation to that point and he could then post it and would have something to fall back on when people pointed out that he might be a bit of a racist.

No one did, so he's scared to post it in case his fear that he's a bit of a racist is actually true. 

[Minsk]

4 minutes ago, saintrich said:

Probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

You obviously don't read much then, certainly not on this site..... If you read my post again you will see that I mentioned it was a good initiative but not well executed. 

It's called no more red, because blood is red. 

Duh!

Arsenal's traditional colours (why are you even thinking about whether they should have been in their home or away kit, that's completely not the point) are red and white, so take away the red and that leaves white. 

To make the point more obvious they should have chosen an opportune match in which they would have worn their traditional red and white. That would make people ask why they weren't. Would have been perfect if they were the home team. As it was, before the commentators explained it (and I don't usually listen to them), I expect most people just thought it was an usual 3rd/4th strip.

If you took red off one of their away kits it would probably be a little bit of piping that no one would even notice. The whole striking thing about the kit is that there is no colour. If there is no colour its white, that's just the way it is. A blank canvas is white. If I bought my son a 'paint your own TV character figurine' it would be white and he would paint colours on.

1. Of course no one would notice if you took the red off of their away kit. Same as many wouldn't have noticed have noticed because they couldn't wear a red kit anyway. 2. But there was red on it - the FA Cup logo. Again, detracted from the message. Baffling why the FA would agree to the kit (even though it meant flouting the rules about clash of shorts colour) and then refuse to remove the red from their own logo. In fact itkind of puts 2 fingers up to it. 3. Your colour point is wrong. White is all the colours being reflected back. If there is no colour at all you get black. Hence why the night sky is black and not white. 4. Whilst white is the 'traditional' colour of a blank canvass they can be bought in many different colours. You chose to buy your son a white one, probably because they are easier to find.

Why would it have anything to do with white teenagers. Bonkers.

Whoosh!!  I know it had nothing to do with white teenagers. It was a piss-take comment. 

See above

[st alex]

13 hours ago, Teddeer said:

I don't have to explain anything to you and I've said more than once that I'll leave it at that so maybe you should respect that. 

You started a thread about something you don't want to talk about?

[sadoldgit]

11 hours ago, tajjuk said:

I read about this like a week or so ago and my reaction was 'oh ok, seems pretty cool to highlight the issue, hope it has an impact'. Then I moved on with my live and completely forgot about it, until this thread because I thought it has to be the most harmless, non-controversial thing ever to highlight a clear issue that surely everyone would be on the side of, right? 

I do honestly wonder how they get through life when their reaction to something like this is not pretty much what I said above or something similar, the people things get bothered about or worked up about or have to comment about it, it's baffling. 

I honestly feel someone could start a campaign to end child deaths due to cancer or something and some of you lot would still being taking some issue with it. 

I was thinking the same. It was strange enough to read pages of posts from people who say they aren’t racist complaining about other non racists highlighting the issue of racism, but who on earth could have an issue about raising awareness of knife crime? We hear a lot about how football has sold its soul and that players are just a load of pampered wusses, but when the likes of Rashford tries to do some good for underprivileged kids, or players make a gesture in support of anti racism or a club does something to raise awareness about the problems of knife crime, some find the need to take issue with it. What goes on in some people’s minds that makes what people try and do about things like hungry children, racism or teenagers sticking knives in each other more of an issue then the issues themselves? No doubt I will get stick from some quarters for posting this (which kind of proves my point).

[Minsk]

11 hours ago, tajjuk said:

I read about this like a week or so ago and my reaction was 'oh ok, seems pretty cool to highlight the issue, hope it has an impact'. Then I moved on with my live and completely forgot about it, until this thread because I thought it has to be the most harmless, non-controversial thing ever to highlight a clear issue that surely everyone would be on the side of, right? 

I do honestly wonder how they get through life when their reaction to something like this is not pretty much what I said above or something similar, the people things get bothered about or worked up about or have to comment about it, it's baffling. 

I honestly feel someone could start a campaign to end child deaths due to cancer or something and some of you lot would still being taking some issue with it. 

 

9 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I was thinking the same. It was strange enough to read pages of posts from people who say they aren’t racist complaining about other non racists highlighting the issue of racism, but who on earth could have an issue about raising awareness of knife crime? We hear a lot about how football has sold its soul and that players are just a load of pampered wusses, but when the likes of Rashford tries to do some good for underprivileged kids, or players make a gesture in support of anti racism or a club does something to raise awareness about the problems of knife crime, some find the need to take issue with it. What goes on in some people’s minds that makes what people try and do about things like hungry children, racism or teenagers sticking knives in each other more of an issue then the issues themselves? No doubt I will get stick from some quarters for posting this (which kind of proves my point).

I haven't seen anyone say it's a bad idea. My post was about it being badly executed. It would have had more impact with more thought/better planning.

Also, it was a mod who created this thread by removing some 'off topic' comments in a thread that is usually taken off topic and just left to run its course.

[aintforever]

6 minutes ago, Minsk said:

 

I haven't seen anyone say it's a bad idea. My post was about it being badly executed. It would have had more impact with more thought/better planning.

How exactly would you have executed it?

[Turkish]

Just now, aintforever said:

How exactly would you have executed it?

Choosing a game where they didn't have to wear a change strip anyway would have been a good place to start.

[Minsk]

4 minutes ago, aintforever said:

How exactly would you have executed it?

I have already posted how it could have been better executed.

[Minsk]

4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Choosing a game where they didn't have to wear a change strip anyway would have been a good place to start.

Spot on!!

[aintforever]

1 minute ago, Minsk said:

I have already posted how it could have been better executed.

Would it really have made any difference to knife crime if they had done it to their home kit?

[Minsk]

7 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Would it really have made any difference to knife crime if they had done it to their home kit?

Will it really make any difference anyway? I would like to hope so.

Do you not agree it would have more effective if they would have been able to wear their home kit but wore that instead?

[aintforever]

2 minutes ago, Minsk said:

Will it really make any difference anyway? I would like to hope so.

Do you not agree it would have more effective if they would have been able to wear their home kit but wore that instead?

I expect the Premier League wouldn't let them do it so they had to do it in the cup, I understood the message, it was quite clear.

[Lighthouse]

49 minutes ago, st alex said:

You started a thread about something you don't want to talk about?

(Split) Threads are split off from other topics, in this case the 'Other Games' thread.

[TWar]

15 hours ago, Teddeer said:

But my understanding is that No More Red is a campaign to reduce the number of young people being murdered in London by being stabbed. Not quite sure how you can promote that as well as taking the knee and supporting BLM. They seem to be at odds with each other to me.

1 hour ago, benjii said:

I can explain:

Tedeer wanted to post something about blacks doing crime and about BLM being bad and any problems faced by blacks being the result of all the blacks. However, he was worried that he might be a bit of a racist.

He hoped that by hinting at this, someone would post something that would give some validation to that point and he could then post it and would have something to fall back on when people pointed out that he might be a bit of a racist.

No one did, so he's scared to post it in case his fear that he's a bit of a racist is actually true. 

 

This was my thinking too:

BLM = pro-black people

Knife crime = the fault of black people

Therefore being pro BLM and anti knife crime is internally inconsistent.

Maybe I'm being unfair with that reading but it certainly came across as pretty racist on the face of it and lack of discussion of it isn't helping.

Edited 10 January, 2022 by TWar

[Minsk]

9 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I expect the Premier League wouldn't let them do it so they had to do it in the cup, I understood the message, it was quite clear.

How did you hear about the message?

[Toadhall Saint]

3 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

(Split) Threads are split off from other topics, in this case the 'Other Games' thread.

But is this saints related?

[saintrich]

43 minutes ago, Minsk said:

See above

This particular match was chosen because it was shown on terrestrial TV so would be seen by a different audience. There was also videos on social media and time was given in the build up on TV to talk about it - Idris Elba joined the pundits to talk about knife crime and the campaign. 

All the comments on whether it was executed well are all kind of pointless given that the main idea behind the campaign is that the shirts are then auctioned off with proceeds going to a knife crime charity. Further to that Arsenal and Adidas are investing in more safe places for teenagers to go in London.

The discussion on colour - of course I'm aware you can get different colour canvases etc but generally speaking they are white and you are nitpicking - if someone said they were going to remove colour from a painting then most people would picture that as white. Arsenal arent going to remove red and then add Black and because some cynics think they should have done this campaign for a home game, again how does that in any way change the outcome of the campaign?

A few people sat in front of their TV saying "oh that's a bit stupid because I can see an Fa cup badge on the shirt" isn't a determining factor in whether the campaign was a success and could have been executed better.

 

[sadoldgit]

50 minutes ago, Minsk said:

 

I haven't seen anyone say it's a bad idea. My post was about it being badly executed. It would have had more impact with more thought/better planning.

Also, it was a mod who created this thread by removing some 'off topic' comments in a thread that is usually taken off topic and just left to run its course.

People are talking about it so it seems to me that it has raised awareness - which surely was the point. It’s the same with everything. No matter what people do there is always criticism of the way it is done. At least some people are trying to change things. Maybe we should spend more time supporting good causes than picking apart the way they are carried out? I’m sure you mean well and this isn’t particularly  aimed at you, but I am sure you get my point. This isn’t about how well Arsenal organised their awareness raising campaign about knife crime. It is about raising awareness about knife crime and trying to do something about it. Just once it would be great to see someone launch a campaign and for everybody to get behind it without nit-picking or finding a reason to diss it. Everything could be done better. The fact that it is being done is what we should be focussing on. 

[Turkish]

Just now, sadoldgit said:

People are talking about it so it seems to me that it has raised awareness - which surely was the point. It’s the same with everything. No matter what people do there is always criticism of the way it is done. At least some people are trying to change things. Maybe we should spend more time supporting good causes than picking apart the way they are carried out? I’m sure you mean well and this isn’t particularly  aimed at you, but I am sure you get my point. This isn’t about how well Arsenal organised their awareness raising campaign about knife crime. It is about raising awareness about knife crime and trying to do something about it. Just once it would be great to see someone launch a campaign and for everybody to get behind it without nit-picking or finding a reason to diss it. Everything could be done better. The fact that it is being done is what we should be focussing on. 

How are you personally getting behind all these causes you support? Apart from posting about it on a football forum of course.

[Minsk]

3 minutes ago, saintrich said:

This particular match was chosen because it was shown on terrestrial TV so would be seen by a different audience. There was also videos on social media and time was given in the build up on TV to talk about it - Idris Elba joined the pundits to talk about knife crime and the campaign. 

All the comments on whether it was executed well are all kind of pointless given that the main idea behind the campaign is that the shirts are then auctioned off with proceeds going to a knife crime charity. Further to that Arsenal and Adidas are investing in more safe places for teenagers to go in London.

The discussion on colour - of course I'm aware you can get different colour canvases etc but generally speaking they are white and you are nitpicking - if someone said they were going to remove colour from a painting then most people would picture that as white. Arsenal arent going to remove red and then add Black and because some cynics think they should have done this campaign for a home game, again how does that in any way change the outcome of the campaign?

A few people sat in front of their TV saying "oh that's a bit stupid because I can see an Fa cup badge on the shirt" isn't a determining factor in whether the campaign was a success and could have been executed better.

 

Don't use social media. Did watch any pre-match build up. In fact I rarely watch any football with English commentary anyway.

I never expected them to remove red and add black. Where did I say I did?

Why do you think it wouldn't have been better had they actually removed ALL the red and that from a shirt containing a lot it which they were supposed to be wearing?

Maybe they could have asked Forest to wear their away strip and then worn the all white? Maybe they did and Forest refused? Churlish of them if so. No idea. Again, had neither team worn any red it would have been more effective. Have you never seen some campaign and thought 'good idea, but would have been better if...'?

Excuse me for giving an opinion on a forum about how I think it could have been done better. Just sat here in a hospital bed, with covid and a serious lung condition, trying to find things to take my off of 'keep breathing' (not that I want to stop; I just want to do it naturally) while hoping they can do enough for me without the need for ICU.

[Toadhall Saint]

Get well soon Minsk 

[TWar]

12 minutes ago, Minsk said:

Don't use social media. Did watch any pre-match build up. In fact I rarely watch any football with English commentary anyway.

I never expected them to remove red and add black. Where did I say I did?

Why do you think it wouldn't have been better had they actually removed ALL the red and that from a shirt containing a lot it which they were supposed to be wearing?

Maybe they could have asked Forest to wear their away strip and then worn the all white? Maybe they did and Forest refused? Churlish of them if so. No idea. Again, had neither team worn any red it would have been more effective. Have you never seen some campaign and thought 'good idea, but would have been better if...'?

Excuse me for giving an opinion on a forum about how I think it could have been done better. Just sat here in a hospital bed, with covid and a serious lung condition, trying to find things to take my off of 'keep breathing' (not that I want to stop; I just want to do it naturally) while hoping they can do enough for me without the need for ICU.

Hope you get well soon

[Minsk]

17 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Get well soon Minsk 

 

9 minutes ago, TWar said:

Hope you get well soon

Thanks. I'm trying!

[saintrich]

12 minutes ago, Minsk said:

Don't use social media. Did watch any pre-match build up. In fact I rarely watch any football with English commentary anyway.

I never expected them to remove red and add black. Where did I say I did?

Why do you think it wouldn't have been better had they actually removed ALL the red and that from a shirt containing a lot it which they were supposed to be wearing?

Maybe they could have asked Forest to wear their away strip and then worn the all white? Maybe they did and Forest refused? Churlish of them if so. No idea. Again, had neither team worn any red it would have been more effective. Have you never seen some campaign and thought 'good idea, but would have been better if...'?

Excuse me for giving an opinion on a forum about how I think it could have been done better. Just sat here in a hospital bed, with covid and a serious lung condition, trying to find things to take my off of 'keep breathing' (not that I want to stop; I just want to do it naturally) while hoping they can do enough for me without the need for ICU.

I think the fact you didn't see any social media or build up to the match shows that they done well to cover all bases - social media, terrestrial tv, spoke about it on sky sports news etc so lots of different people would be aware of the campaign. I don't know for certain, but would imagine the campaign is getting extra coverage in local printed and TV media in London. Hopefully the money raised and invested makes at least some difference. 

I guess the Fa cup badge could have been white, but enough of the Arsenal badge and other sponsors, main and sleeve, being white seemed enough to suggest to me something was going on other than just a change of strip in my opinion. I do agree the Fa should have just let them do that Logo white also, but it not being white doesnt stop the campaign being a success. Sorry you're right you didn't suggest black, that's just me getting my point across poorly.

I guess my main gripe is with original thread itself and still believe the original post to be nonsense - I saw your comment about white teenagers and thought that was worse so jumped on that instead, but if you weren't being serious then theres no more for me to add, other than apologies for any misunderstanding and wishing you the best of health. 

[angelman]

It's a very worthy thing to support. Unfortunately I am not sure it will make much difference but at least it is being tried.

 

I didn't realise before the game that that what was happening, and found it nigh on impossible to read the numbers, so scratched my head and thought WTF until it was pointed out. I think clear numbers on the back of shirts is a requirement for TV and not so much for the ref. I stand to be corrected, but think it is easier to see in the flesh than on the box. 

 

As I said, very worthy thing to do. But where do you draw the line? There are lots and lots of worthy causes out there, and if you let one be supported, do you then let them all?

[Mystic Force]

For the record I am pro people not being stabbed. Before I left London I remember when my bus got diverted, when I got home I see on the news some guy had got knifed and that's why the road was closed. The next day on the way to work you could see the trail of blood from where the guy got stabbed about 150 meters down the pavement to the shops where he went to get help.

I take it saints is pro people being stabbed as our kit represents someone bleeding out?

Edited 10 January, 2022 by Mystic Force

[Turkish]

3 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

I was thinking the same. It was strange enough to read pages of posts from people who say they aren’t racist complaining about other non racists highlighting the issue of racism, but who on earth could have an issue about raising awareness of knife crime? We hear a lot about how football has sold its soul and that players are just a load of pampered wusses, but when the likes of Rashford tries to do some good for underprivileged kids, or players make a gesture in support of anti racism or a club does something to raise awareness about the problems of knife crime, some find the need to take issue with it. What goes on in some people’s minds that makes what people try and do about things like hungry children, racism or teenagers sticking knives in each other more of an issue then the issues themselves? No doubt I will get stick from some quarters for posting this (which kind of proves my point).

care to name the people you think have an issue with knife crime?