Saints 2-1 Coventry - Match Thread

[captainchris]

1 hour ago, Teddeer said:

Felt sorry for the lad. He was given a start but in a team so weak that he had little opportunity to show what he can do and got hooked at half time before the better players came on. Wouldn't judge him on today and don't think Ralph did him any favours. You might say it's up to him to shine but he got zero service.

This summary of his performance works well in isolation, however Adam Armstrong has looked way off the required quality all season in fairness.

We cannot afford to pick him too often now, he clearly needs to go out on loan or play for the reserves to regain some form/quality. 

[StrangelyBrown]

1 minute ago, captainchris said:

This summary of his performance works well in isolation, however Adam Armstrong has looked way off the required quality all season in fairness.

We cannot afford to pick him too often now, he clearly needs to go out on loan or play for the reserves to regain some form/quality. 

I can't help but think AA's problem is that he can't think quickly enough for the premier league - his decision making seems to be way too slow and I can't see this being improved by playing at a lower level. He needs a decent run of games which I can only see will only happen if we are safe with a good number of games to go or a really bad run of injuries.

From what I've seen he won't ever be good enough, but I thought that about Che...

[Saints foreva]

15 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Broja, Livramento, Salisu, Stuart Armstrong, Diallo, KWP and Adams says it isn't.

No clubs get their transfers 100% spot on. Leicester signed Vestergaard and Bertrand yet people say they have great scouting.

If you spend £15m on a player, he should be starting for us and providing a return, that is our mentality. Same applies for Diallo, 3rd choice behind Romeu who really isn't all that but we have a fanbase that's happy to accept staying in PL every year....

[farawaysaint]

12 hours ago, Saints foreva said:

If you spend £15m on a player, he should be starting for us and providing a return, that is our mentality. Same applies for Diallo, 3rd choice behind Romeu who really isn't all that but we have a fanbase that's happy to accept staying in PL every year....

Yes I am happy to accept staying in the premier league every year with the occasional cup run and European flirtation.

 

What else do you think is realistically achievable for a club of our size and financial situation? I support us for the occasional cup run and European flirtation because when we click despite not having the financial resources of the bigger teams it is a beautiful thing.

Edited 6 February, 2022 by farawaysaint

[Teddeer]

9 minutes ago, Saints foreva said:

If you spend £15m on a player, he should be starting for us and providing a return, that is our mentality. Same applies for Diallo, 3rd choice behind Romeu who really isn't all that but we have a fanbase that's happy to accept staying in PL every year....

Romeu has been a superb player for us and would start regularly at many other premier League clubs.

[MAY-Z]

34 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

Agree with some of what you’ve said about early season contribution but in answer to Woodsaint what you would see if you dug up an early Che Adams thread is frustration at composure in front of goal but admiration and respect for the number of assists, hold up play and passing eg Villa game. Che is always contributing even if not scoring. I hope AA can adapt but today was important for him to make his mark and I fear RH may be losing confidence in him. 

WBU - just seen your post and I agree, Che was very nervous at Fratton but I don’t wholly agree in terms of revisionism, Che always had more about his game. AA is a very different striker, off the last shoulder but his link play before that is miles away from where it needs to be, even if the club recruits a starter quality number 10 in the summer to offer earlier delivery and through balls. 

Hoping that AA can make the transition but will need to adapt and refine his game to make the most of the reduced time and space you get in the PL.

So in the first 12 games

Scored against Everton away on debut 

scored a cracking winner against villa

Provided the assist for our goal against Man U, just the random OG interpretation stops that being official

won the penalty at Newcastle

won a penalty at man city, VAR randomness stepped in

assisted the winner at Watford

assisted the goal at Norwich 

 

Since then he has been overtaken by Broja which given what he is worth is not unsurprising  

[Dark Munster]

2 hours ago, Toadhall Saint said:

So Ralph got it wrong. Rectified it and guess what we won. 

That's true. But we probably wouldn't have needed extra time if he'd hadn't made 10 changes and started with bloody Walcott, Long and AArmstrong up front, and 3rd/4th/5th choices at the back. Some players rested for sure, but not to that extent. Also, we were very, very lucky not to lose.

[The Left Back]

7 hours ago, Saint86 said:

If Broja and Lyanco are out long term it really doesn't justify that spectacular error of a team selection.

Plus we will be knackered for 2 tough games in a week.

Ralph had a mare today.

This makes absolutely no sense. 

7 hours ago, hackedoff said:

Hollow victory.

Nor does this. Fcuk me when we won the thing in 76 was it hollow cos we scraped past Villa and Bradford and got a lucky semi final draw? Hollow victory - what does that even mean? 

[Hayling Saint]

2 hours ago, farawaysaint said:

Yes I am happy to accept staying on the premier league every year with the occasional cup run and European flirtation.

 

What else do you think is realistically achievable for a club of our size and financial situation? I support us for the occasional cup run and European flirtation because when we click despite not having the financial resources of the bigger teams it is a beautiful thing.

Totally agree with this.

[JRM]

Pleaded to get through and avoid the banana skin but starting line up was a mess , first half poor you could tell Coventry were a well organised team used to playing together whereas we were sloppy and disjointed. 

Small was particularly poor , shame as was looking forward to seeing him play, big lad for a left back, Walcott is finished offers nothing now is he out of contract soon?

Much better 2nd half , brilliant goal by Armstrong. 

Fingers crossed for a good draw this morning 

[JRM]

Coventry support was impressive as well, reminded me of some of our away followings when coming back through the leagues 

[hypochondriac]

30 minutes ago, JRM said:

Pleaded to get through and avoid the banana skin but starting line up was a mess , first half poor you could tell Coventry were a well organised team used to playing together whereas we were sloppy and disjointed. 

Small was particularlay poor , shame as was looking forward to seeing him play, big lad for a left back, Walcott is finished offers nothing now is he out of contract soon?

Much better 2nd half , brilliant goal by Armstrong. 

Fingers crossed for a good draw this morning 

Yep sums it up. Overall though we won and went through which is what matters. Weird from some on here being all negative. We won't get relegated and still in the cup! Happy days. 

[rallyboy]

As we're limited with the quality of our fringe players, looking at it on paper we've managed the cup well so far.

It didn't feel like it in that first half yesterday, but we did enough at Swansea, and got the job done yesterday against a decent team with great support.

But it certainly highlighted who is up to first team football and who isn't...no need to name them, it was obvious.

And whoever had the idea at the design stage of giving away the Northam to all FA Cup visitors, didn't think it through.

[JRM]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Yep sums it up. Overall though we won and went through which is what matters. Weird from some on here being all negative. We won't get relegated and still in the cup! Happy days. 

I'm not a fan of the cup draw on a Sunday morning either, should be after all the games have been played , hopefully we get one of the championship teams still in 

[Toadhall Saint]

8 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

That's true. But we probably wouldn't have needed extra time if he'd hadn't made 10 changes and started with bloody Walcott, Long and AArmstrong up front, and 3rd/4th/5th choices at the back. Some players rested for sure, but not to that extent. Also, we were very, very lucky not to lose.

My point remains.

[Chez]

9 hours ago, MAY-Z said:

So in the first 12 games

Scored against Everton away on debut 

scored a cracking winner against villa

Provided the assist for our goal against Man U, just the random OG interpretation stops that being official

won the penalty at Newcastle

won a penalty at man city, VAR randomness stepped in

assisted the winner at Watford

assisted the goal at Norwich 

 

Since then he has been overtaken by Broja which given what he is worth is not unsurprising  

good point. He started brightly, but had a few poor games and obviously lost his place. The cameos since have not been good and as a result he has clearly lost that fluidity and confidence he had when scoring for fun i the Championship. There is still a half decent player in there and there is still time for him to turn things around.

[LuckyNumber7]

I didn't like the starting lineup, expected two or three changes but wholesale changes like that were always likely to make it difficult for us. Haven't read the whole thread yet  but people blaming Ralph for players getting injured is one of the most stupid things I've seen on this forum. Seems Lyanco could be out a while which is a shame but thankfully Broja's doesn't sound too bad.

Although we were poor, you have to give Coventry credit, they were well up for it and played some nice football at times. Could easily have won on another day.

On Small - I didn't think he was as bad as some are making out, looked nervy early on but grew into the game and made some nice forward runs. What annoyed me though was his laziness at tracking back, a lack of effort is unacceptable. He's a young kid though, he'll learn and improve and he certainly looks to have the tools to become a very good player.

Biggest disappointments for me were Arma, I really want him to do well but he just looks so far off the required quality sadly. When he has the ball it's like a hot potato as he seems to have no control over it. Not writing him off yet, his confidence must be very low but he desperately needs a goal or two. The other was Redmond who was really poor imo. He's having a better season but was back to his old self yesterday.

Shout out to Caballero for some very good saves. And Stuey for that incredible goal which I can't stop watching, that swerve was Roberto Carlos esque!

Into the next round which is all that matters but hopefully some lessons learned by Ralph.

Also why the hell did the lino take so long to flag for their offside goal? It wasn't even close!

Edited 6 February, 2022 by LuckyNumber7

[Chez]

13 hours ago, Covkid19 said:

Had to watch the game on TV today. You played against us like we play against most other championship sides. Dominated possession without to much threat .

We can reach the playoffs in the championship , still, but we are away off , doing that week after week. 

So thanks for the lesson, we will definitely learn.

thought you gave us a lesson to be honest. Created the best chances, looked dangerous on the break and defended really well. Pretty much the ideal display by an away team. You should have won really and but for a wonder goal by Stu, you probably would have. Hard luck. 

 

[Give it to Ron]

10 hours ago, Saints foreva said:

If you spend £15m on a player, he should be starting for us and providing a return, that is our mentality. Same applies for Diallo, 3rd choice behind Romeu who really isn't all that but we have a fanbase that's happy to accept staying in PL every year....

Your either a Skate on a wind up or totally bonkers

[badgerx16]

I think starting with 3 at the back and the wing backs pushed high was as much the cause of the first half shambles as the 10 changes. Valery is not, and will never be a Centre Back, Tino looks good bursting forward from FB but there seemed to be less room for him positioned wide in a congested midfield, other players seemed to not quite understand where they were meant to be or what their team mates were supposed to be doing.

Maybe Ralph was trying to be too clever, and overlooked the FACup effect of a lower division team playing away at a higher division one, and raising their game to bully the 'big shots'.

[Roo1976]

11 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

What has that got to do with players getting injured?

Probably some are upset that the depth of squad and choices of players that played were just not good enough to see the game plan through.After all, yes we won but

it was so like watching Saints play in the bad old days of recent seasons failure in front of goal  too slow in thought plenty of possession but no movement or threat on goal.

As for players getting injured seems like its part and parcel of the game.

[Saint Billy]

We were lucky but, 

We've scored some outrageous and stunning goals this season😳

[HarvSFC]

Could the break have played a part? Yes, I know, the break that all professionals wanted could have actually had a negative impact? Imagine that. You've got two teams coming up against each other. One has been in training as normal every day, playing matches and keeping sharp. Whereas the other one has been in light training and had a small holiday. So, you get results like Middlesbrough knocking out United, Chelsea and West Ham going to extra time against Plymouth and Kidderminster and us needing extra time against Coventry.

[JRM]

36 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

I think starting with 3 at the back and the wing backs pushed high was as much the cause of the first half shambles as the 10 changes. Valery is not, and will never be a Centre Back, Tino looks good bursting forward from FB but there seemed to be less room for him positioned wide in a congested midfield, other players seemed to not quite understand where they were meant to be or what their team mates were supposed to be doing.

Maybe Ralph was trying to be too clever, and overlooked the FACup effect of a lower division team playing away at a higher division one, and raising their game to bully the 'big shots'.

I don't think Ralph can claim to he surprised by the game, was quite similar to Sheffield United and Swansea this season, two other Championship sides we also failed to beat in 90 mins. Coventry were best of the three though. 

[Secret Site Agent]

13 hours ago, Teddeer said:

Presumably that was done in the privacy of the dressing room 🙂

At his last place they only have him an orange.

[JRM]

1 hour ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

I didn't like the starting lineup, expected two or three changes but wholesale changes like that were always likely to make it difficult for us. Haven't read the whole thread yet  but people blaming Ralph for players getting injured is one of the most stupid things I've seen on this forum. Seems Lyanco could be out a while which is a shame but thankfully Broja's doesn't sound too bad.

Although we were poor, you have to give Coventry credit, they were well up for it and played some nice football at times. Could easily have won on another day.

On Small - I didn't think he was as bad as some are making out, looked nervy early on but grew into the game and made some nice forward runs. What annoyed me though was his laziness at tracking back, a lack of effort is unacceptable. He's a young kid though, he'll learn and improve and he certainly looks to have the tools to become a very good player.

Biggest disappointments for me were Arma, I really want him to do well but he just looks so far off the required quality sadly. When he has the ball it's like a hot potato as he seems to have no control over it. Not writing him off yet, his confidence must be very low but he desperately needs a goal or two. The other was Redmond who was really poor imo. He's having a better season but was back to his old self yesterday.

Shout out to Caballero for some very good saves. And Stuey for that incredible goal which I can't stop watching, that swerve was Roberto Carlos esque!

Into the next round which is all that matters but hopefully some lessons learned by Ralph.

Also why the hell did the lino take so long to flag for their offside goal? It wasn't even close!

I thought Small looked like he had no confidence in himself, I was fairly close to the action halfway on Kingsland so could see his movement, he shook his head disappointed with himself on a few occasions needed an older player to have a word and get him focused. Coventry were finding quite a bit of space behind him. 

[Tank]

10 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

That's true. But we probably wouldn't have needed extra time if he'd hadn't made 10 changes and started with bloody Walcott, Long and AArmstrong up front, and 3rd/4th/5th choices at the back. Some players rested for sure, but not to that extent. Also, we were very, very lucky not to lose.

'spose he's thinking about Spurs on Tuesday

[Tank]

On 09/01/2022 at 11:58, TWar said:

Definitely not under Gao, I think relegation could have been the death of our club as a top flight entity for decades under him as I'm not convinced with a "sell to buy" policy we would have found it easy at all to get promoted again. He probably would have cashed out to any old chancer too, not the sort of investor who looks at premier league level teams.

With new owners, still probably not, I think if we stay a prem side for long enough we will eventually win a cup, but if we go down to the championship and don't come back up again pronto then our quality will drop dramatically, and we will never be able to seriously compete again. Also the standard of football would drop dramatically. Having said that, if we did bounce back after a year or two it would be worth it for the feeling on the day.

we beat Utd from the old 2nd div in '76

[Tank]

2 hours ago, JRM said:

I'm not a fan of the cup draw on a Sunday morning either, should be after all the games have been played , hopefully we get one of the championship teams still in 

could get Forest if they win, what a turn up, ... they will need to play in armour gainst Forest

[Billy the Kidd]

12 hours ago, Saints foreva said:

Won't be long until we loan him back down the leagues. The scouting here is awful. 

Yeah I completely agree.

I mean, who the f**k scouted Salisu, then Tino, and Broja in the summer needs shooting.

[Billy the Kidd]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

good point. He started brightly, but had a few poor games and obviously lost his place. The cameos since have not been good and as a result he has clearly lost that fluidity and confidence he had when scoring for fun i the Championship. There is still a half decent player in there and there is still time for him to turn things around.

Agree with this Chez.

Also I think we have been playing him since his better games out of position. I seem to recall when he signed there was stuff from Blackburn saying he was hopeless out wide and got far better/more goals played through the middle.

[Whitey Grandad]

12 hours ago, saintwbu said:

Plenty of revisionism on here regarding Adams. I always thought he would be good enough, but more than plenty did not so it’s not really accurate to say he looked any better than Armstrong at this stage as he didn’t. Armstrong has two goals this season, it took Che about 30 games to get his first. I also remember very clearly being at Pompey away and thinking it was Adams’ night to announce himself - he was totally anonymous, and he knew it, and looked very frustrated at the end of the game. There are lots of parallels. It’s still too early to write off Armstrong imo. 

It takes a long while for any promising player to adapt to the Premier League.  This is true of lower league players as much as it is for those coming from foreign leagues. That’s why they tend to be brought into clubs like Saints rather than those in the top of our league. These clubs will wait until the talent has been proven and developed before splashing out the cash and paying a premium for doing so. 
 

Clubs like ours are the developing grounds for the big boys.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

I didn't like the starting lineup, expected two or three changes but wholesale changes like that were always likely to make it difficult for us. Haven't read the whole thread yet  but people blaming Ralph for players getting injured is one of the most stupid things I've seen on this forum. Seems Lyanco could be out a while which is a shame but thankfully Broja's doesn't sound too bad.

Although we were poor, you have to give Coventry credit, they were well up for it and played some nice football at times. Could easily have won on another day.

On Small - I didn't think he was as bad as some are making out, looked nervy early on but grew into the game and made some nice forward runs. What annoyed me though was his laziness at tracking back, a lack of effort is unacceptable. He's a young kid though, he'll learn and improve and he certainly looks to have the tools to become a very good player.

Biggest disappointments for me were Arma, I really want him to do well but he just looks so far off the required quality sadly. When he has the ball it's like a hot potato as he seems to have no control over it. Not writing him off yet, his confidence must be very low but he desperately needs a goal or two. The other was Redmond who was really poor imo. He's having a better season but was back to his old self yesterday.

Shout out to Caballero for some very good saves. And Stuey for that incredible goal which I can't stop watching, that swerve was Roberto Carlos esque!

Into the next round which is all that matters but hopefully some lessons learned by Ralph.

Also why the hell did the lino take so long to flag for their offside goal? It wasn't even close!

It was only a few seconds but it always seems longer when your adrenaline is flowing.

[Toussaint]

37 minutes ago, JRM said:

I thought Small looked like he had no confidence in himself, I was fairly close to the action halfway on Kingsland so could see his movement, he shook his head disappointed with himself on a few occasions needed an older player to have a word and get him focused. Coventry were finding quite a bit of space behind him. 

I think it was reckless starting him in a match like that.

[Whitey Grandad]

36 minutes ago, Tank said:

'spose he's thinking about Spurs on Tuesday

Wednesday at 19:45

[Tank]

2 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Wednesday at 19:45

dammit ... you're right

Edited 6 February, 2022 by Tank

[Toadhall Saint]

1 minute ago, Toussaint said:

I think it was reckless starting him in a match like that.

What match would you deem less reckless? He apparently had earned the start that few in here had been asking for. He’ll have learnt a lot more from that 45 mins than he would with winning at a canter over 90.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I think it was reckless starting him in a match like that.

Wouldn't quite say it was reckless. Am sure Ralph would have learned a lot about where he is in his development. From what I saw of him he was pretty heavy footed and looked a bit off the pace. Overall not a great game and think it would have been more beneficial for him if he could have been brought on with the win already secured.

[St Steve]

As MOTD was rubbish here’s my sons vlog 

 

https://youtu.be/_7bKCf9hniQ

[bpsaint]

FWIW I thought it was pretty risky to start Small in such a changed line up, he was set to fail from the whistle. If it had been say Salisu and Bednerak alongside him at CB he might have appeared more settled, as it was the team looked like a bunch of strangers until halftime.

[Toussaint]

3 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

What match would you deem less reckless? He apparently had earned the start that few in here had been asking for. He’ll have learnt a lot more from that 45 mins than he would with winning at a canter over 90.

I would have thought feeding him into the team gradually would be the better way of managing his progress, not a full debut in an FA cup game against a robust championship side, more so when you consider the weakened team fielded yesterday. 

[fanimal]

Hammers!

[CAH61]

KWP and Stuey should be the first names on the teamsheet, both of them ooze quality.

[Toussaint]

Hope we don’t give West Ham the same allocation as we Did Coventry, that would take some policing!

[Badger]

Has to be strongest team for this, 

[Toadhall Saint]

48 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I would have thought feeding him into the team gradually would be the better way of managing his progress, not a full debut in an FA cup game against a robust championship side, more so when you consider the weakened team fielded yesterday. 

What game then?

[Professor]

Not much new to add, but will back up what others have said. Ralph badly misjudged his selection.  Far too many changes from the previous match. You have to wonder how many of the starting line-up had ever played together before.  With five substitutions allowed, Ralph mishandled that as well, having used all five by the start of extra time.  If a player had needed to go off injured during the final 30 minutes, the team would have been down to 10 men.  Unacceptable when you have five substitutions permitted.

If Caballeroo hadn't gone to remonstrate with the assistant ref (linesman) when Coventry found the net at the end of extra time, the game would have been decided by the lottery and luck of penalties.  There could easily have been a very different tone to today's discussions.    

My subscription to the Ralph Fan Club, lapsed a little while ago and I'm still not inclined to renew it.

[Matthew Le God]

45 minutes ago, Professor said:

If Caballeroo hadn't gone to remonstrate with the assistant ref (linesman) when Coventry found the net at the end of extra time, the game would have been decided by the lottery and luck of penalties.  There could easily have been a very different tone to today's discussions.    

What Caballero did after the ball went in the net was irrelevant. VAR was in use yesterday and the Coventry player was clearly offside, there was no chance it was going to stand.

Edited 6 February, 2022 by Matthew Le God

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Just now, Matthew Le God said:

What Caballero did after the ball went in the net was irrelevant. VAR was in use yesterday and he was a long way offside.

I couldn't make out if it was in use or not. Didn't have any of the usual signposting to say a review was in progress. Although I appreciate there may not have been a whole load of contentious incidents 

[Red]

4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

What Caballero did after the ball went in the net was irrelevant. VAR was in use yesterday and the Coventry player was clearly offside, there was no chance it was going to stand.

This place is all about opinions so fair do's you're perfectly entitled to yours's. Mine is there is no coincidence between big club (manager and players) "screaming blue murder" and getting the "right decision".  VAR is in use today with the Liverpool game - did not even refer two contentious decisions, never mind the outcome.

Regardless of the outcome - I want our players to at least seem as they care and "die for the cause".