Saints vs Newcastle - Postponed

[david in sweden]

1 hour ago, saintrich said:

They had 8 subs vs man utd, 2 of which were youth who haven't ever played so dont technically meet guidelines if they wish to call off and 2 gk. So of 19 players, it makes 16 really. Minus 2 injuries of ASM and Wilson makes 14. (13 +1 spare gk) meaning the game 'could' go ahead. So would have had to have at least one new covid case.

....and what's the betting that they won't be able to find at least one new Covid case before Sunday ?.

It's a long way from Newcastle and not an very attractive fixture directly after New Year's Day, and with the  

possibility of avoiding the loss of  another 3 points  before the Arab gentleman spends his first £100 million 

to bolster up Eddie Howe's squad in the coming week(s).     Looks like another postponement on the cards. 

 

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

6 hours ago, Teddeer said:

Wonder whether they'd be trying to call games off if Wilson and ASM had not picked up injuries and they'd gone on to beat Man Utd as they should have done. Eddie Howe would have been crowing and they'd have been chomping at the bit to play the next games whether they had a few out through covid or not. Smacks of cheating the system.

They’d have 2 more fit players Einstein 

[Lord Duckhunter]

I’m struggling to understand the “big team bias” when Brentford had their game called off and Chelsea didn’t. Then there’s posts stating the league haven’t got much of a clue and are being played,  with others stating Chelsea played a full side after being denied a cancellation. Surely that’s proof that the league do in fact know what they’re doing. 
 

 

[danjosaint]

2 hours ago, saintrich said:

They had 8 subs vs man utd, 2 of which were youth who haven't ever played so dont technically meet guidelines if they wish to call off and 2 gk. So of 19 players, it makes 16 really. Minus 2 injuries of ASM and Wilson makes 14. (13 +1 spare gk) meaning the game 'could' go ahead. So would have had to have at least one new covid case.

They also have hayden back from his ban 

[VectisSaint]

3 hours ago, saintrich said:

They had 8 subs vs man utd, 2 of which were youth who haven't ever played so dont technically meet guidelines if they wish to call off and 2 gk. So of 19 players, it makes 16 really. Minus 2 injuries of ASM and Wilson makes 14. (13 +1 spare gk) meaning the game 'could' go ahead. So would have had to have at least one new covid case.

They also had 2 keepers on the bench, so they had 15 outfield. Lost 2 to injury so that would be 13 (yes I know Hayden will be back) so to be fair to them they are pretty close to the limit, only needs a couple more Covids. Not saying it's right, just pointing out where they appear to be at. 

[Matthew Le God]

24 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

They also had 2 keepers on the bench, so they had 15 outfield. Lost 2 to injury so that would be 13 (yes I know Hayden will be back) so to be fair to them they are pretty close to the limit, only needs a couple more Covids. Not saying it's right, just pointing out where they appear to be at. 

Even if they miss the Everton game, Newcastle players with Covid who missed their Man Utd match should be out of self isolating before the game on 2nd January at St Mary’s. 

[Teddeer]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

They’d have 2 more fit players Einstein 

Thanks for stating the bleeding obvious and I was aware of that 🙂

On another note, as far as I recall, Newcastle finished the game against Man Utd with 11 men. So they only need to find another 2 plus a goalkeeper who have played for the first team. All I can say is there must be an epidemic of covid in their squad if they can't meet that criteria. Funny that this coincides with injuries to their two star players plus the imminent opening of the transfer window when they are set to splash the cash so if they get our game called off they won't play again in the league until mid Jan when they are due to face Watford. I'm in agreement with Ralph that only covid cases should count not injuries. Nobody cared when we were down to the bare bones in the second half of last season so why should Newcastle get the sympathy vote. 

[tajjuk]

Does seem very suspicious to me, two best players injured, desperately waiting for the Window to open to splash the cash and suddenly they don't have enough players?

Looking at Leicester's team last night they must have had a lot out, but they just played two games in 48 hours. They had at least 4 U23 players making up their squad. 

[fanimal]

Assuming we do play Sunday then

Forster

Tino Jan Lyanco Perraud 

Stu JWP Romeu Tella

Adams Broja 

[Sarisbury Saint]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

Even if they miss the Everton game, Newcastle players with Covid who missed their Man Utd match should be out of self isolating before the game on 2nd January at St Mary’s. 

What’s the betting they’re find more cases?

[Matthew Le God]

8 minutes ago, fanimal said:

Assuming we do play Sunday then

Forster

Tino Jan Lyanco Perraud 

Stu JWP Romeu Tella

Adams Broja 

Adams missed the Spurs game due to testing positive on Monday evening, so he won't be available for any game on Sunday.

Edited 29 December, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[JRM]

From a Newcastle perspective, I still don't buy the lack of use of the u23s, they are professional footballers employed by the football club, its pathetic and they are manipulating the situation in my opinion as they don't fancy the game without best players. Many games last season we only had kids on the bench. 

 

https://www.themag.co.uk/2021/12/southampton-already-moaning-as-newcastle-united-match-set-to-be-called-off-potentially-ralph-hasenhuttl/

Edited 29 December, 2021 by JRM

[alehouseboys]

33 minutes ago, JRM said:

From a Newcastle perspective, I still don't buy the lack of use of the u23s, they are professional footballers employed by the football club, its pathetic and they are manipulating the situation in my opinion as they don't fancy the game without best players. Many games last season we only had kids on the bench. 

 

https://www.themag.co.uk/2021/12/southampton-already-moaning-as-newcastle-united-match-set-to-be-called-off-potentially-ralph-hasenhuttl/

Tbf, the comments following the article are reasonable, more concern for fans travelling to the other end of the country left in limbo.

Reminds me of a Newcastle v Saints game way back when it was called off at the last minute despite it snowing heavily that weekend. They delayed a decision to the last minute as it was live on SKY that Sunday afternoon. I remember the local OB made a statement that around 800 Southampton fans had already arrived in the city with more on their way but they were completely disregarded. Most having to immediately turn round after a near 350 mile road trip and do the same back in bleak weather.

[AlexLaw76]

 

[niceandfriendly]

5 minutes ago, alehouseboys said:

Reminds me of a Newcastle v Saints game way back when it was called off at the last minute despite it snowing heavily that weekend. They delayed a decision to the last minute as it was live on SKY that Sunday afternoon. I remember the local OB made a statement that around 800 Southampton fans had already arrived in the city with more on their way but they were completely disregarded. Most having to immediately turn round after a near 350 mile road trip and do the same back in bleak weather.

That was a painful one. We were drinking in a nearby pub with Geordies when the cancellation was announced. Must have been only about an hour or so before kick off when we heard the news.

[JRM]

11 minutes ago, alehouseboys said:

Tbf, the comments following the article are reasonable, more concern for fans travelling to the other end of the country left in limbo.

Reminds me of a Newcastle v Saints game way back when it was called off at the last minute despite it snowing heavily that weekend. They delayed a decision to the last minute as it was live on SKY that Sunday afternoon. I remember the local OB made a statement that around 800 Southampton fans had already arrived in the city with more on their way but they were completely disregarded. Most having to immediately turn round after a near 350 mile road trip and do the same back in bleak weather.

Of course, I have a lot if sympathy for the fans, Newcastle have sold out 3330 for a Sunday 2pm game just after New Year, top effort that. I was up in Newcastle that year, we'd got the train up Saturday and did the night out, woke up Sunday morning to see snow everywhere game wasn't called off until after lunch! 

[Harry_SFC]

3 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

They also had 2 keepers on the bench, so they had 15 outfield. Lost 2 to injury so that would be 13 (yes I know Hayden will be back) so to be fair to them they are pretty close to the limit, only needs a couple more Covids. Not saying it's right, just pointing out where they appear to be at. 

Don't forget the 3/4 players who did have covid should be back on Sunday providing they test negative.

[fanimal]

Che only has to wait 7 days from Monday so ..oh yeah Monday earliest then Armstrong or Redmond up top instead 

[eurosaint]

This whole thing smacks to me of the Hamilton/ Verstappen fiasco the other week !

The authorities are making up new rules on the hoof !

Since when were injuries a reason to call off matches ?? Every team gets them all the time so where do you stop ?

Only positive covid cases should be taken into account (and should be proven) !

Howe immediately went into sympathy mode as soon as his two top attackers got injured and it stinks….

The match should be played !

[Teddeer]

10 minutes ago, eurosaint said:

This whole thing smacks to me of the Hamilton/ Verstappen fiasco the other week !

The authorities are making up new rules on the hoof !

Since when were injuries a reason to call off matches ?? Every team gets them all the time so where do you stop ?

Only positive covid cases should be taken into account (and should be proven) !

Howe immediately went into sympathy mode as soon as his two top attackers got injured and it stinks….

The match should be played !

Agree

[suewhistle]

42 minutes ago, eurosaint said:

Only positive covid cases of vaccinated players should be taken into account (and should be proven) !

I've edited for you..

Incidentally, we had two players on our bench yesterday who have never played for the first team: Small and Simeu..

[eurosaint]

17 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

I've edited for you..

Incidentally, we had two players on our bench yesterday who have never played for the first team: Small and Simeu..

🤙

[whelk]

26 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

I've edited for you..

Incidentally, we had two players on our bench yesterday who have never played for the first team: Small and Simeu..

Did you hear Moyes banging on about respecting diversity as a smokescreen for not listing vaccination status? Every PL manager seems to have become a twat. So these prima donnas refuse the vaccine and then have to isolate and everyone else takes the consequences. Should be total transparency against every squad  member ie are they fit to play, are they injured, have covid, or just isolating as not vaccinated. Should be simple to see if clubs have less than 13 players

Edited 29 December, 2021 by whelk

[HarvSFC]

We played Newcastle last season with Jack Stephens at right-back and a bench containing Ramsay, Finnigan, Watts, Chauke and N'Lundulu. KWP, Armstrong, Smallbone, Diallo and Walcott were all missing from the match squad. 

I cannot recall the Newcastle fans believing that match should've been postponed and played at a later date when we had everybody fit. 

The top comment on that post is "It would be a welcome break and give us time to tie 1-2 signings.
This team needs some fresh faces in all areas."

That will be exactly Eddie Howe's thinking as well, he'll see us as a winnable match with reinforcements. Clubs who were previously in a dire situation, like Newcastle currently are (1 win in 19) have tried to use COVID to gain an advantage and call for the season to null and void, and that's what's happening here. They lost their two best players to injury on Monday evening and all of a sudden they cannot play anymore, within 24 hours of playing previously. You'd expect Manchester United to now get a tonne of COVID cases, right?

[LiberalCommunist]

We need transparency. Any games that are called off need to be open about the figures involved. We cannot limp on with doubt over all the fixtures. 

 

Edited 29 December, 2021 by LiberalCommunist

[Toadhall Saint]

Tell you what - NCFC can have the game called off - just forfeit the points. If you don’t want to forfeit the points then field a side even if it means calling in your U23’s. 

Edited 29 December, 2021 by Toadhall Saint

[Ken Tone]

Seems to me the fair thing would be to say OK postpone it if you can show you really have lots out of action, but you can't play any newly signed players in the rearranged game.

[JRM]

2 hours ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Tell you what - NCFC can have the game called off - just forfeit the points. If you don’t want to forfeit the points then field a side even if it means calling in your U23’s. 

Exactly,  we'll soon find out who really has an issue. 

[JRM]

3 hours ago, whelk said:

Did you hear Moyes banging on about respecting diversity as a smokescreen for not listing vaccination status? Every PL manager seems to have become a twat. So these prima donnas refuse the vaccine and then have to isolate and everyone else takes the consequences. Should be total transparency against every squad  member ie are they fit to play, are they injured, have covid, or just isolating as not vaccinated. Should be simple to see if clubs have less than 13 players

Bullshit, blame the stupid govt restrictions that a perfectly healthy person has to isolate even when testing negative, don't blame the players or managers. 

[Whitey Grandad]

16 minutes ago, JRM said:

Bullshit, blame the stupid govt restrictions that a perfectly healthy person has to isolate even when testing negative, don't blame the players or managers. 

Only if they’re not vaccinated. You can blame the club and players for that.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I don’t recall too many people getting so upset when the first game was called off , now because it’s Newcastle everyone is up in arms. A precedent has been set and we’re now nearly 20 postponed games in. Had it been us proposing a postponed game and the league said “fuck off and play otherwise we’d deduct 3 points”: everyone would be up in arms, citing the normal anti saints agenda of everyone. The way this things spreading, it probably will be us in a couple of weeks wanting games off. Then as now it’s up to the league to decide, not a one eyed supporters forum. You can’t bet your life the posts will be slightly different when it is us. 

[64saint]

12 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

. Then as now it’s up to the league to decide, not a one eyed supporters forum. You can’t bet your life the posts will be slightly different when it is us. 

Your post seems to hint of a Saints bias on this forum, surerly not.🤔😉

Edited 29 December, 2021 by 64saint

[DT]

They’ll probably have Coutinho  for the rearranged game. 
Seems a bit like a word from the multi billionaires might be enough. Funny, that. 

[CanadaSaint]

Hopefully the club is pitching a strong argument at the PL authorities rather than waiting for the chinless wonders to postpone the game without consultation.

[eurosaint]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I don’t recall too many people getting so upset when the first game was called off , now because it’s Newcastle everyone is up in arms. A precedent has been set and we’re now nearly 20 postponed games in. Had it been us proposing a postponed game and the league said “fuck off and play otherwise we’d deduct 3 points”: everyone would be up in arms, citing the normal anti saints agenda of everyone. The way this things spreading, it probably will be us in a couple of weeks wanting games off. Then as now it’s up to the league to decide, not a one eyed supporters forum. You can’t bet your life the posts will be slightly different when it is us. 

I have no problem with matches being called off for proven Covid reasons (ie. If there is a sizeable number or a danger to others) but using injuries and even suspensions to bolster the argument is not acceptable for me…

 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

5 minutes ago, eurosaint said:

I have no problem with matches being called off for proven Covid reasons (ie. If there is a sizeable number or a danger to others) but using injuries and even suspensions to bolster the argument is not acceptable for me…

 

Exactly. Aren't they also counting staff members in as well? Who gives a fuck if the data analyst can't watch the game at the ground. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, eurosaint said:

I have no problem with matches being called off for proven Covid reasons (ie. If there is a sizeable number or a danger to others) 

 

What makes you think that’s not the case? 
 

The league refused Chelsea, allowed Brentford, how does that fit with the “big club bias”. I’d imagine they’ve looked at Newcastle’s case in exactly the same basis as they looked at those 2. As I said, there’s been nearly 20 call offs so far, I doubt there’s much difference between any of them. It’s certainly not a conspiracy or a big club bias. 

[woodsaint1]

You just know that with expectations high and our fans eagerness to get this game on due to our recent good form, great PL record against Newcastle at home and Newcastles depleted team with injuries/covid.....that we'll contrive to draw, or worse still lose the game. Its the saints way. 

The memories of failing to beat the 9 men still looms large

[Vancouver Saint]

Should be total transparency against every squad  member ie are they fit to play, are they injured, have covid, or just isolating as not vaccinated. Should be simple to see if clubs have less than 13 players

This Whelk - totally agree. Why should a team with say 60% double-vaxxed players be allowed to call off a game against a team with 98% double-vaxxed? 

 

[AlexLaw76]

3 hours ago, Vancouver Saint said:

Should be total transparency against every squad  member ie are they fit to play, are they injured, have covid, or just isolating as not vaccinated. Should be simple to see if clubs have less than 13 players

This Whelk - totally agree. Why should a team with say 60% double-vaxxed players be allowed to call off a game against a team with 98% double-vaxxed? 

 

What does being vaccinated have to do with having Games called off in this scenario?

Edited 30 December, 2021 by AlexLaw76

[Convict Colony]

As everyone has said newcastle is looking for excuses to delay games now does anyone know how the league actually validate what they saying is true regarding covid cases.

Honestly agree with everyone who said injuries is not a reason, the U23 are there use them.

[eurosaint]

10 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What makes you think that’s not the case? 
 

The league refused Chelsea, allowed Brentford, how does that fit with the “big club bias”. I’d imagine they’ve looked at Newcastle’s case in exactly the same basis as they looked at those 2. As I said, there’s been nearly 20 call offs so far, I doubt there’s much difference between any of them. It’s certainly not a conspiracy or a big club bias. 

No idea why you are quoting me regarding 'big club bias' as I have never mentioned it !

As for conspiracy, the Newcastle situation is clearly unique right now as they have just lost their two best strikers and are able to get reinforcements as of next week using their new found wealth ! It is very much in their best interests to delay this fixture, certainly more than other teams in the league right now !

I have made a general point which applies to every team : ie. prove you have Covid cases because injuries / suspensions are part and parcel of the game and every club gets them !

As you say, the PL will make their own decisions but can easily be deceived by minor injuries whereas Covid is provable !

 

[macca155]

Obviously we all want the game played as Saints clearly have an edge at the moment.

However as his Lordship says that really is irrelevant. Just as much as Newcastle wanting it postponed and who can blame them.

The situation is pretty unique and the league need to play a very straight bat to this, to avoid being seen as complicit.

The rules are clear Newcastle need to be able to field 13 'first team' players, including a goalie. Otherwise the game is off. 

I guess they have means of verification.

Plus, and this sticks in my throat, Newcastle's buying power is also irrelevant. They can't be treated differently.

Game could be rearranged quite soon as lots of midweek gaps coming up, so may not be an issue.

[Teddeer]

11 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What makes you think that’s not the case? 
 

The league refused Chelsea, allowed Brentford, how does that fit with the “big club bias”. I’d imagine they’ve looked at Newcastle’s case in exactly the same basis as they looked at those 2. As I said, there’s been nearly 20 call offs so far, I doubt there’s much difference between any of them. It’s certainly not a conspiracy or a big club bias. 

From what I read here people are not suggesting big club bias or an anti Saints agenda. I think it's more a distrust of Newcastle and suspicion that they are playing the system and using covid as a smokescreen to buy them time because of injuries notably to ASM and also they hope to have new signings in place by the time they play their next league match which they want to be the Watford game in mid January.

[Teddeer]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

As everyone has said newcastle is looking for excuses to delay games now does anyone know how the league actually validate what they saying is true regarding covid cases.

Honestly agree with everyone who said injuries is not a reason, the U23 are there use them.

As far as I understand they only have to count U23 players who have appeared for the first team in their list of 13 plus a goalkeeper. The rest don't count. Not making excuses for them as I agree with most that they are playing the system because postponing our game is massively to their benefit. It irks me because we went through an horrendous injury crisis last season and had to soldier on with what we had.

[benjii]

Assuming Stephens or Lyanco is available I'd be tempted to stick with a back 3 for this one. Valery did really well and I don't fancy a back 4 with Jan plus someone other than Salisu at CB.

                     Foster

Valery    Bednarek    Stephens/Lyanco 

Tino            Romeu               Perraud

              Moi        JWP

        Broja           Redmond 

I assume S Armstrong will be eased back in so might be better starting on the bench. He seemed to be slightly off his usual pace against Spurs.

Plenty of options on the bench with Armstrong x 2, Long and Tella and maybe Adams.

Edited 30 December, 2021 by benjii

[UpweySaint]

36 minutes ago, macca155 said:

Obviously we all want the game played as Saints clearly have an edge at the moment.

However as his Lordship says that really is irrelevant. Just as much as Newcastle wanting it postponed and who can blame them.

The situation is pretty unique and the league need to play a very straight bat to this, to avoid being seen as complicit.

The rules are clear Newcastle need to be able to field 13 'first team' players, including a goalie. Otherwise the game is off. 

I guess they have means of verification.

Plus, and this sticks in my throat, Newcastle's buying power is also irrelevant. They can't be treated differently.

Game could be rearranged quite soon as lots of midweek gaps coming up, so may not be an issue.

I think a lot of the bitterness comes from the lack of real clarity. While Covid is black and white injury status is vague, I think their is cynicism that teams may not be playing this with a straight bat themselves. Coupled with the fact that we've had to play our u23s a lot over the past few years (people have cited the Utd game with 9 'first team' players) while the likes of Tuchel are whinging while sitting £70mil worth of Germany international on the bench plus others ... 

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

What does being vaccinated have to do with having Games called off in this scenario?

Double vaccinated people don’t have to self-isolate after contact with a positive Covid person but unvaccinated do.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

Double vaccinated people don’t have to self-isolate after contact with a positive Covid person but unvaccinated do.

What if they have covid?

[whelk]

36 minutes ago, UpweySaint said:

I think a lot of the bitterness comes from the lack of real clarity. While Covid is black and white injury status is vague, I think their is cynicism that teams may not be playing this with a straight bat themselves. Coupled with the fact that we've had to play our u23s a lot over the past few years (people have cited the Utd game with 9 'first team' players) while the likes of Tuchel are whinging while sitting £70mil worth of Germany international on the bench plus others ... 

I think there is broad consensus that needs transparency. There will always be the gullible like LD that trust in the PL’s integrity. However if that is the case why aren’t they being clear? Tuchel whinging about 7 out with covid but only two are known. What can we not see the other 5 of otherwise easy to come to conclusion that he is full of shit.