West Ham 2-3 Saints - Match Thread

[wadesmith]

52 minutes ago, adriansfc said:

Seriously doubt it. Only hope is Chelsea just spending silly amounts on strikers and not needing him. He's a couple of seasons away from being ready for what they want. They'll try for Haaland I'm sure. 

Our best hope is that Broja likes it enough here to choose another season over a loan elsewhere. If he knows he'll start regularly here than that could happen. Works for us too. We then have Adams and Armstrong competing for one spot and can spend the money elsewhere. 

But more realistically I think he'll get 10+ goals this season if he stays fit and there'll just be too much interest in him, or Chelsea will want a massive loan fee. 

Yeah 100%. I don’t doubt that there’s a chance Chelsea may find him surplus to requirements (possibly)..but there’s going to be a few clubs in for him if he carries on developing how he has. I think one more year is our best hope.

[Kingsland Codger]

Well done to our lads. Great result, showing great character to take back the lead after conceding - not once but twice. Wonderful stuff.

[OttawaSaint]

40 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

There's lots of goals to see on tonight's Boxing Day Match of The Day, covering all the games played today, Boxing Day. Looking forward to it, a great way to round off Boxing Day.

 

I'm giving it a miss. Apparently McCann is suspended for Villa so it's ruined for me...

[Lord Duckhunter]

Who is this fucking annoying women on motd?

[Tamesaint]

14 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Who is this fucking annoying women on motd?

What was she doing at the football? Shouldn't she have been at home tidying up after Christmas and cooking her husband's dinner?

[St. Neil]

She sounds hot!

[Kingsland Codger]

1 hour ago, nta786 said:

[Re our penalty] ... it was nice to see all the players in the refs face for once to almost put pressure on VAR to have a look.

The two most vociferous of whom were the two ‘Chelsea’ lads, Tino and Borja. Perhaps they can teach our home grown players to be a bit more demanding.

[LiberalCommunist]

So refreshing not to fuck that up. 

Brilliant result. Well deserved. Gifted them a way back, but eventually shut the door.

Massive 3 points. 

[OttawaSaint]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Who is this fucking annoying women on motd?

Sacrilege! Needs to be crusty old guys in moldy brown bell bottoms highlighting real mean scuffing with the old bill and spilling the claret of the bovva boys in the the away end terraces amidst the stench of bovril and piss...

 

[Crab Lungs]

Wow. Unexpected.

on another note, I fear Forster will soon be touted as Englands no 1 again on here soon.

His past success with previous teams here were built on how solid we were then, not because he’s any good at all.

Please Caballero next game. It’s a long shot, but it’ll be less stressful.

[Ralph Fastenbüttl]

At least in a few years time when Broja's scoring in the knock out stages of the Champions League, we'll be able to reminisce about the days he spent with us.

[CylonKing]

Have read lots of opinions on here over the years, post occasionally when something takes my fancy or if I'm feeling funny (eeeh, the mother-in-law!, Actually the mother-in-law jokes are rubbish. My mother-in-law is ace!)  Today highlights why it's the best being a Saints fan...and more controversially, why Ralph is the best manager for us right now. We NEVER beat West Ham, never, but when we do, it means something to us. Ralph is not the best manager but he is the right manager for us. He understands the fans, he understands the club and is one of us, I feel he knows the history, the ups and downs and wants to be a part of that. I personally have not felt a connection with the club/manager since Ronald, we are a great club and feel we are the best. Sometimes, it's not about winning everything, sometimes it's about living and enjoying...and do I enjoy Southampton and Southampton FC! Southerners, Southerners, Southerners...from a guy in the Midlands (orig. Winchester). Stay safe folks.

[Saint_clark]

Amazed to read in people's analysis of Forster's performance that his kicking amount to "big hoofs" and "randomly launching it forward". He played it short just as often as he played it long and one of those randomly launched hoofs started the move that got us the first goal.

[Danbert]

2 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Amazed to read in people's analysis of Forster's performance that his kicking amount to "big hoofs" and "randomly launching it forward". He played it short just as often as he played it long and one of those randomly launched hoofs started the move that got us the first goal.

It was still a random hoof. His kicking was poor, I thought. His keeping at corners was some of the worst I've ever seen.

[JRM]

Brilliant result, certainly one I didn't expect based on;

Our away record

Our record v West Ham

losing points from winning positions

But miracles really do happen at Christmas, top stuff. Hopefully players are fresh enough to put in another shift tomorrow. 

[The Cat]

3 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Amazed to read in people's analysis of Forster's performance that his kicking amount to "big hoofs" and "randomly launching it forward". He played it short just as often as he played it long and one of those randomly launched hoofs started the move that got us the first goal.

He played it short far less than McCarthy does. 

Most of the time he hacks it as far up the pitch as possible. The first goal was one time he actually found a player.

If you want to see a keeper who can pass then look at Caballero. Our other 2 keepers are terrible with their feet in comparison.

[Mr X]

Just watched the highlights looked an exciting  game for a neutral,  we won and that's what ultimately counts but again our frailty when taking a lead was on full display till the third goal 

[Hatch]

Nice , unexpected 3 points,  I'll take that.

 

 

One observation, from this and the last few games,    Bednareks picking up of players in the penalty area when we get hit on the break down the flanks is diabolical

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, Danbert said:

It was still a random hoof. His kicking was poor, I thought. His keeping at corners was some of the worst I've ever seen.

I thought his kicking was good, and he was positive at corners. Nothing particularly wrong with his game yesterday, and I’m far from a fan of his. 

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, Danbert said:

It was still a random hoof. His kicking was poor, I thought. His keeping at corners was some of the worst I've ever seen.

We won. Get over it.

[Forester]

A good day out, having been a bit of a “brave” decision to go in the end.  Felt like about one in five fans stayed away, be interested to see he actually turnout figure.  The covid pass checks were non existent/ineffective.

I thought our passing game was strong yesterday, with lots of good patient build up balanced by the occasional, and well judged, hoof defensively when under pressure.  I only recall one moment when we chose the wrong ball from deep and that was Bednarek who lost concentration first half and handed them the ball with a lazy cross field pass.

I though Romeu, JWP, KWP and Broja were our best players.  I don’t get the criticism of Forster, who I though got some good punches in from set pieces first half and his distribution was fine.  Walcott didn’t really impact the game, but I would say he worked hard off the ball.  I assume we will see Stuart in for Spurs.

Having trooped out of that place many times being battered, very happy with three points and in fact four from two London trips.  Delighted to hit 20 points one game ahead of minimum requirement too.  Would bite your arm off for a point against Spurs who are flying under Conte.

[Teddeer]

1 hour ago, Hatch said:

Nice , unexpected 3 points,  I'll take that.

 

 

One observation, from this and the last few games,    Bednareks picking up of players in the penalty area when we get hit on the break down the flanks is diabolical

Agree about Bednarek. For their second goal he actually glanced over his shoulder to see where Benrahma was then chose not to bother marking him. Having said that he did score the winner with a very good header.

[Nordic Saint]

41 minutes ago, Forester said:

A good day out, having been a bit of a “brave” decision to go in the end.  Felt like about one in five fans stayed away, be interested to see he actually turnout figure.  The covid pass checks were non existent/ineffective.

I thought our passing game was strong yesterday, with lots of good patient build up balanced by the occasional, and well judged, hoof defensively when under pressure.  I only recall one moment when we chose the wrong ball from deep and that was Bednarek who lost concentration first half and handed them the ball with a lazy cross field pass.

I though Romeu, JWP, KWP and Broja were our best players.  I don’t get the criticism of Forster, who I though got some good punches in from set pieces first half and his distribution was fine.  Walcott didn’t really impact the game, but I would say he worked hard off the ball.  I assume we will see Stuart in for Spurs.

Having trooped out of that place many times being battered, very happy with three points and in fact four from two London trips.  Delighted to hit 20 points one game ahead of minimum requirement too.  Would bite your arm off for a point against Spurs who are flying under Conte.

A lot of it is based on prejudice rather than observation of how he played. His chipped pass that started the move for our first goal was superb.

[Sarisbury Saint]

2 hours ago, Hatch said:

Nice , unexpected 3 points,  I'll take that.

 

 

One observation, from this and the last few games,    Bednareks picking up of players in the penalty area when we get hit on the break down the flanks is diabolical

It always has been. His visual awareness is shocking. Great 3 points today, but we’ve only papered over the cracks and got a away with it this time.

[DT]

A few points from yesterday. 
great result. Was convinced they would equalise, such is our frailty

good support from fans in the ground

£6.90 for a small pie is a shocker

theo looks like a pub player

Forster wound them up delightfully with his time wasting. He’s better than McCarthy and the players seem to have more trust in him

Romeu was brilliant, as were Broja and Salisu. 
ward Prowse might have done better on the cross for their first. But his pen was brilliant

most around me were saying ‘we never get these’ when it went to VAR

kevin Friend is shocking. But fair play for giving the pen

trafgic and parking around their ground is truly horrendous. Thought we’d miss the game afte an hour at standstill. 
 

thought it was a bit weird how unadventurous we were after scoring. Looked like we were holding out from minute 10

 

their fans are pretty bad

ralph needs to see tactical subs a bit earlier although I guess he’s saving Broja’s legs for Spurs

but how Theo stays on is beyond me( until he went off)

all in all an excellent three points. If hard on the nerves. 

[Saint Garrett]

What was the attendance? Can’t have been better than 30k? 

[spyinthesky]

14 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

What was the attendance? Can’t have been better than 30k? 

As an example, Brighton was shown at 30,000 but it is reckoned there were less than half as many in the ground as it is challenging  getting to the Amex and the connecting train service was not running.
Getting to the Taxpayers Stadium was also challenging.

[Lord Duckhunter]

37 minutes ago, DT said:

 

kevin Friend is shocking. But fair play for giving the pen

 

He didn’t though did he? 
 

He had to be told to rectify his fuck up. How the fuck he didn’t give it in real time was beyond me, even worse was (unless I missed it) he didn’t even show a yellow card. Appalling refereeing, he was saved by the result. 

Edited 27 December, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[sibster]

27 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

What was the attendance? Can’t have been better than 30k? 

26,041 according to sky sports

[sibster]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He didn’t though did he? 
 

He had to be told to rectify his fuck up. How the fuck he didn’t give it in real time was beyond me, even worse was (unless I missed it) he didn’t even show a yellow card. Appalling refereeing, he was saved by the result. 

I thought that about the yellow at the time but it was confirmed later on that he been booked for the challenge. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

7 minutes ago, sibster said:

I thought that about the yellow at the time but it was confirmed later on that he been booked for the challenge. 

I didn’t see it and I had my eyes on him thinking it was a borderline red (no genuine attempt at ball). Our website doesn’t show it either. Unless he showed it running from the monitor or after the penalty I’m pretty sure I’d have seen it. 
 

 

Edited 27 December, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[Billy the Kidd]

I still don’t understand how that Dawson challenge for the penalty wasn’t a red. 

It would have justified a yellow had he attempted to play the ball, which he didn’t. Red card all day long for me. 

A little like the Villa pen yesterday, at the end of the game, Konsa got yellow for going for the ball, whereas in reality he didn’t he literally only tried to take Lukaku down.

Stupid rules IMO.

 

[The Kraken]

Bbc match report also says no yellow given.

[Billy the Kidd]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I didn’t see it and I had my eyes on him thinking it was a borderline red (no genuine attempt at ball). Our website doesn’t show it either. Unless he showed it running from the monitor or after the penalty I’m pretty sure I’d have seen it. 
 

 

Yeah I’m with you, he didn’t appear to show it, and considering his smile to Antonio when he confirmed the no offside, it must have killed him giving us a penalty. 

One other thing I noticed a few times yesterday was when we had two or three players around the ball having won back possession and they all left it for one another and WHU got the ball. I think their second goal came from one of these. I can’t for one second believe Keane or Viera leaving the ball just sat their list we just daintily waited for someone to take control. 

[sibster]

13 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I didn’t see it and I had my eyes on him thinking it was a borderline red (no genuine attempt at ball). Our website doesn’t show it either. Unless he showed it running from the monitor or after the penalty I’m pretty sure I’d have seen it. 
 

 

That's odd, I was going by the commentator on the stream who said that he had been booked for the challenge. Very odd if he wasn't as there was a fairly good argument for a red as he didn't relly attempt to play the ball at all! 

 

EDIT: Sky sports are saying that Dawson received a yellow but the PL website isn't so it seems that he "Got away with one" and Sky are incorrect! 

Edited 27 December, 2021 by sibster
Extra information

[HarvSFC]

I don’t know if I’m just being bias, but I thought the penalty was stonewall in real time, and then the replays confirmed it. However, I noticed that Broja was trending on Twitter yesterday, had a look to see if opposition were starting to clock onto how good he is. But, oh no. It’s just West Ham fans thinking the decision for the penalty was one of the worst they’ve seen this season. See replies:

Had a look at their forum, turns out the VAR thread is active, like ours is on occasion and instantly see this: “As far as I’m concerned another incompetent or bent VAR /refereeing collusion has cost us today.”

So, finally I go to see if David Moyes has said anything/moaned about it… Nothing interesting, but the West Ham website reports the incident as: “However, Southampton went back in front through James Ward-Prowse after Kevin Friend awarded a controversial penalty after viewing the pitchside screen on VAR Craig Pawson’s recommendation, penalising Craig Dawson for a foul on Armando Broja when the initial contact appeared yards outside the penalty area.”

Which can be seen here: https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2021/december/26-december/david-moyes-lots-things-didnt-go-well-wed-have-liked

In my view, the only thing controversial about it was that Friend needed a second look to award it. 
 

Weird. 🤷‍♂️

[Lord Duckhunter]

21 minutes ago, HarvSFC said:

I don’t know if I’m just being bias, but I thought the penalty was stonewall in real time, and then the replays confirmed it. However, I noticed that Broja was trending on Twitter yesterday, had a look to see if opposition were starting to clock onto how good he is. But, oh no. It’s just West Ham fans thinking the decision for the penalty was one of the worst they’ve seen this season. See replies:

Had a look at their forum, turns out the VAR thread is active, like ours is on occasion and instantly see this: “As far as I’m concerned another incompetent or bent VAR /refereeing collusion has cost us today.”

So, finally I go to see if David Moyes has said anything/moaned about it… Nothing interesting, but the West Ham website reports the incident as: “However, Southampton went back in front through James Ward-Prowse after Kevin Friend awarded a controversial penalty after viewing the pitchside screen on VAR Craig Pawson’s recommendation, penalising Craig Dawson for a foul on Armando Broja when the initial contact appeared yards outside the penalty area.”

Which can be seen here: https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2021/december/26-december/david-moyes-lots-things-didnt-go-well-wed-have-liked

In my view, the only thing controversial about it was that Friend needed a second look to award it. 
 

Weird. 🤷‍♂️

They’re right, the initial contact was outside the box. However they need to learn the rules. If a foul starts outside the box and continues inside, it’s a penalty and If there are two fouls, one outside and one inside then the referee, who has played advantage after the first offence, should award a penalty. either way it was a stonewall. Lucky to stay on, and even luckier not to receive a yellow. 

[Teddeer]

2 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Bbc match report also says no yellow given.

Should have been a red.

Edited 27 December, 2021 by Teddeer

[Whitey Grandad]

29 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Should have been a red.

Genuine attempt to play the ball? Probably a yellow but after being advised to go to the monitor maybe he didn’t feel like being harsh

[Lord Duckhunter]

13 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Genuine attempt to play the ball? Probably a yellow but after being advised to go to the monitor maybe he didn’t feel like being harsh

You’re being generous. Personally, I think he decided it wasn’t a red, but with all the commotion forgot to give the yellow. Any other explanation beggars belief. You can’t look at that and say it’s not worthy of any card. 

[Teddeer]

15 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Genuine attempt to play the ball? Probably a yellow but after being advised to go to the monitor maybe he didn’t feel like being harsh

If that was a genuine attempt to play the ball maybe you thought you were watching rugby. Broja out-muscled and outpaced Dawson who wrestled with him over several yards culminating in his momentum causing him to tumble forward and wipe him out from behind inside the area. That was no attempt to play the ball.

[TWar]

I think he got away without the red as the original foul was outside the box and an advantage was played (therefore no red as you can't give a red when playing advantage), the second foul inside the box was accidental, he fell into Broja. Still definitely a foul and still a stonewall pen but that I suspect is why there was no red. First was an advantage hence no red, second was an accident hence no red. No idea why no yellow though, that baffles me.

[Teddeer]

2 minutes ago, TWar said:

I think he got away without the red as the original foul was outside the box and an advantage was played (therefore no red as you can't give a red when playing advantage), the second foul inside the box was accidental, he fell into Broja. Still definitely a foul and still a stonewall pen but that I suspect is why there was no red. First was an advantage hence no red, second was an accident hence no red. No idea why no yellow though, that baffles me.

But the 'accident' only happens because he was wrestling Broja and his momentum caused the stumble and foul in the box. The second foul is a direct consequence of the first so I can't see how that can be deemed as accidental.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Teddeer said:

But the 'accident' only happens because he was wrestling Broja and his momentum caused the stumble and foul in the box. The second foul is a direct consequence of the first so I can't see how that can be deemed as accidental.

Depends if you call it two seperate incidents really. If you do its one red card offence scrubbed off due to an advantage and one incident where a pen is conceded carelessly but not deliberately. If you see it as one then yeah, it's a red for me.

I personally would have given him a red, for the record, just trying to understand the logic to not doing so.

[Teddeer]

5 minutes ago, TWar said:

Depends if you call it two seperate incidents really. If you do its one red card offence scrubbed off due to an advantage and one incident where a pen is conceded carelessly but not deliberately. If you see it as one then yeah, it's a red for me.

I personally would have given him a red, for the record, just trying to understand the logic to not doing so.

I don't think Broja has received enough credit for trying to stay on his feet and finish his run with a strike at goal. Dawson was just desperate to stop him by whatever means, that was his intent so for me it has to be a red.

[Matthew Le God]

7 minutes ago, TWar said:

Depends if you call it two seperate incidents really. If you do its one red card offence scrubbed off due to an advantage and one incident where a pen is conceded carelessly but not deliberately. If you see it as one then yeah, it's a red for me.

I personally would have given him a red, for the record, just trying to understand the logic to not doing so.

I don't think that relevant to the rules, as there was no attempt to go for the ball.

[Manuel]

I doubted that it was a pen, but for me, from one angle it looked like it could have been.  When Friend went over and looked at the monitor, he got that angle.  

[Red]

On 26/12/2021 at 16:03, Sheaf Saint said:

Pretty sure he means in general over the season, not today.

Yep that's exactly what I meant - thanks

[DT]

3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He didn’t though did he? 
 

He had to be told to rectify his fuck up. How the fuck he didn’t give it in real time was beyond me, even worse was (unless I missed it) he didn’t even show a yellow card. Appalling refereeing, he was saved by the result. 

He still had to okay it at the screen. But yes, shocking that card business

[The Kraken]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

I don't think that relevant to the rules, as there was no attempt to go for the ball.

Correct, by the rules he made no attempt to play the ball either in the first passage of play (outside the box) or the second (inside) so it should be a red all day long IMO. 
 

 

 

Edited 27 December, 2021 by The Kraken