Palace 2-2 Saints - Match Thread

[TWar]

1 minute ago, suewhistle said:

Well, didn't bother with dodgy streams tonight and went down a village pub and had a few pints and a bit of banter from the Portsmouth supporting locals. Just had a look at the early part of the thread and they say women get hysterical and over the top..:

"Game over. Took two minutes. Bye Ralph. 

Going to be a thrashing isn't it ..

fucking hopeless

Game over

Fucking hilarious. 
how shite are we. 
another battering on the cards. 

I cannot believe what I’m watching. A team absolutely not playing for their manager"

.. and so forth. There are legitimate grounds for criticising the players and the manager but this shrieking, pearl clutching hysteria is frankly embarrassing.

Incidentally, any one else think Caballero's distribution a lot better than our regular keepers? Smallbone had a decent game considering how long he has been out. The draw doesn't surprise me but another disappointment when all is said and done.

 

Yes absolutely. I think he was poor for the first goal but in general he was much much better today. Made some good stops with his feet, stood up to Eduoard well 1v1, and his little tip to take it off the head of Benteke was superb.

[austsaint]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

That was a good old ding dong

 

Thought so too - rollicking end-to-end match with mistakes thrown in and two quality goals from Broja and WP.   I can understand why Ralph replaced Broja and Tella with Long and Walcott (saving them for Saturday) - but once he did, you had the feeling that holding on for a draw was our only hope.   I've been a bit meh with Tella, but he grew on me tonight, great pace, tenacious in defence and the press, just lacking that first touch and end product.   Livramento was better tonight though it is still frustrating to see a quality RB (KWP) being forced to play out of position.

 

[DT]

5 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

Well, didn't bother with dodgy streams tonight and went down a village pub and had a few pints and a bit of banter from the Portsmouth supporting locals. Just had a look at the early part of the thread and they say women get hysterical and over the top..:

"Game over. Took two minutes. Bye Ralph. 

Going to be a thrashing isn't it ..

fucking hopeless

Game over

Fucking hilarious. 
how shite are we. 
another battering on the cards. 

I cannot believe what I’m watching. A team absolutely not playing for their manager"

.. and so forth. There are legitimate grounds for criticising the players and the manager but this shrieking, pearl clutching hysteria is frankly embarrassing.

Incidentally, any one else think Caballero's distribution a lot better than our regular keepers? Smallbone had a decent game considering how long he has been out. The draw doesn't surprise me but another disappointment when all is said and done.

 

Another supporter who didn’t watch

[64saint]

Ralph seemed to be checking his mobile phone when JWP scored , think maybe his Mrs was asking him to pop in and get some milk on the way home, and he completely missed the strike.   Pleased with the point, not easy place Selhurst Park.

[S-Clarke]

28 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

Well, didn't bother with dodgy streams tonight and went down a village pub and had a few pints and a bit of banter from the Portsmouth supporting locals. Just had a look at the early part of the thread and they say women get hysterical and over the top..:

"Game over. Took two minutes. Bye Ralph. 

Going to be a thrashing isn't it ..

fucking hopeless

Game over

Fucking hilarious. 
how shite are we. 
another battering on the cards. 

I cannot believe what I’m watching. A team absolutely not playing for their manager"

.. and so forth. There are legitimate grounds for criticising the players and the manager but this shrieking, pearl clutching hysteria is frankly embarrassing.

Incidentally, any one else think Caballero's distribution a lot better than our regular keepers? Smallbone had a decent game considering how long he has been out. The draw doesn't surprise me but another disappointment when all is said and done.

 

Good point raised about the goal keeping distribution, certainly something I've noticed as well. Seems to be playing a lot more long, which are more accurate - as opposed to McCarthy's which just went out of play.

[badgerx16]

35 minutes ago, TWar said:

Doubt it, very difficult to score from such an acute angle.

Not against our keepers.

[suewhistle]

26 minutes ago, DT said:

Another supporter who didn’t watch

What _are_ you on about? I may have had a few pints watching down the pub but you have obviously not taken your meds.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

Not against our keepers.

Willy actually did alright from acute angles today, repelled one from Tomkins, one from Edouard, and one other I can't remember who from.

[LaptopSaint]

Atmosphere in the away end for the last fifteen mins of the first half was quality. Two goals in five mins in an evening away game in London may be as good as it gets this season. 
Broja and Tella were both excellent and Shane did his job when he came on - including a wee bit of Zaha shithousing - so I don’t quite get the hate. 
Gallagher was the best player on the pitch by a country mile though IMO. Fully expect to see him and Broja starting for Chelski next season. 
 

 

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Performance was not very good but sometimes you just need a positive result to stop the bleeding and build.  This could be that game.  I'd have taken a point at the start of the game and didn't think we'd get one after going behind.  If some confidence can come back into the team we can grab some points and keep our head above water.

Got a feeling it might be a funny season with some teams playing 4 -5 more games than others at times in the season which will make for an interesting last third of the season.  There are probably three worse teams than us but it is tight - and the takeover has to happen by the end of the season at the very latest otherwise next season is going to be very very grim.

Edited 15 December, 2021 by Lallana's Left Peg

[Teddeer]

I'd love to see Broja and Tella play a lot closer to one another. They are both strong and quick and, working as a pair in close quarters, maybe they'd be more effective. It would need work but if they could develop a decent connection then perhaps it would lead to more chances and goals and a bit more panic in opposing defences. Little give and goes, spins and interplay might set up one on ones against the keeper. It's certainly worth persevering with them after today's strong showing.

[cambsaint]

Feel a little more confident tonight that we can stay up.Team really fought after being caught cold for first goal. Second against was poor defending, but overall was pretty good. Impressed by Broja and Tella,and KWP. I just wish RH would try playing KWP at right back and Livramento as a midfielder ahead of him.Thought Caballero had a good game tonight, very impressed with his ball distribution and footwork, also noticed him shouting at defence to move out,so perhaps with his experience he can organise our defence better than incumbents. Wouldn't e too surprised to see his contract extended if he continues like tonight, and could even be taken on as a coach if he wanted. Still not confident about R H but if we are going to replace him it must be done immediately to give a new manager the Jan window imo. It does of course depend on availability and affordability, Also wish KWP would pass the ball forward sometimes, he seems totslly obsessed with the initial risk free pass that just allows the opposition too much time, but he certainly fought for every ball tonight. A bit too much head tennis at times though for my liking in the defensive midfield.

 

[Pamplemousse]

Draw was a fair result. We were awful first 15-20 mins; then we were well on top. I really wish we'd push on and make our advantage count. Under Adkins, something we were really, really good at was scoring two goals quite quickly, we'd take the lead and then get another. That's the one thing missing from our game, because I think with that 2 goal lead, our defenders would be a lot calmer.

[cloggy saint]

2 hours ago, DT said:

‘I didn’t follow the game at all’

Something something about real supporters

It's called 'life', sometimes it gets in the way.

[Pamplemousse]

Just had a look at Palace twitter comments, one person said we were the best team they've played at Selhurst this season. Think they seem happy with the point considering how the game panned out.

[Gingeletiss]

3 hours ago, Chez said:

Parraud aint better than KWP. It's up to him to impress and he hasn't done squat in games. Who knows in training.

How the hell does he get to impress, if he doesn’t get picked. Sorry but having a right back at the left back position, does not make sense, KWP is not left footed, and imho weakens us on the left.

[skintsaint]

Can't complain with an away point. The usual game of good stuff and wank stuff. Need to start winning a few games soon though. Especially while the bottom 3 are all out of form to really hit their morale. 

Two nice goals from us, Willy saved well initially for the 2nd but KWP asleep at the back post. First goal conceded was poor all round.

[Kingsland Codger]

There was also an excellent performance from the 12th man - our fans. Palace fans at Selhurst Park has a fully justified reputation for being noisy yet our band of travelling supporters were equally loud. Even the tv commentators mentioned this several times. Well done and thank you to all who were there.

[Wade Garrett]

10 hours ago, Turkish said:

Decent last 15 first 30 was shambolic 

True.

Decent in that we had a lead and scored a couple.

[The Cat]

Some more thoughts now, couldn't be bothered when I got back last night.

For their first goal, the ref put his whistle to his mouth when Romeu was tackled/fouled but then let play go on. Was a stupid goal to concede as Tella was initially in a great position on the left and for some reason didn't put a cross in, played it backwards and we eventually lost possession. 

Gallagher is absolute quality. What a player.

Caballero did well apart from diving out of the way of Zaha's shot. Some good saves and his passing is excellent, he has such smooth technique with his feet compared to our other 2 keepers. 

Good to see us being a bit more niggly. Not sure what it is about Palace that brings out our shithousing but we could do with more of that.

A lot of our problems are self inflicted. The number of times we make loose passes and concede possession is frustrating. It's not even as if these come when the players are making difficult passes, it's simple 10 yard ones that go astray and cost us dearly because of the fact we commit players, especially the full backs, forward.

Loved the atmosphere in the away end. Had quite a few of the younger lads there which helped. 

[Chris cooper]

Salisu poor last night and Lyanco very erratic and out position constantly.. dives in a lot aswell .. so the 4 cb postions at the moment are a worry going into a busy period .. good point last night .. tella was excellent 👌🏻 my motm .  Kwp good covering and was up and down all night .. marginal better 2nd period of late so taking some confidence into Saturday.. let’s hope doesn’t succumb to covid .. well done saints !

[Wurzel]

10 hours ago, SaintZamboni said:

Just thought I’d add my two cents.

Interesting to see, despite all the criticism to the contrary of Ralph, that he did change strategy second half.

We started with the usual defend and hang in there but after Tella’s ‘injury’ and then the Long/Djenepo substitution the high press reappeared . It didn’t yield the chances we sometimes get but it was noticeable. It did yield the wide open midfield we usually get though! Maybe that’s the adaptation we’ll now see?

Thought Tella and Broja we’re a handful because they actually applied some pace and pressure to our attack. Changing them was a good cal but only if they both continue this on Saturday.

Article in The Athletic recently pointed out how we always have a player go down around the 60 minute mark and whilst he's being treated the rest of the team grab a drink in a group whilst RH gives out new instructions. I had noticed myself we do it most games but not the coincidental timing. I had to laugh when I looked at the clock as Tella went down, he timed it to the second 🤣

[rooney]

 We still lose or give the ball away too much and some of our passing is poor. In saying that we showed more character than in the Arse game by coming back with more character. Draw a fair result and felt ok after the game.

[Alanh]

10 hours ago, Teddeer said:

I was speaking in a general sense not specifically about tonight's game. Most of the clever, really good managers/coaches are not afraid to make changes to alter the direction of a game whether that change is of a tactical nature or a substitute. Ralph doesn't seem to have this in his locker.

A few times this season RH has changed formations with subs to protect what we have.  We have gone to a back 3 a few times this season to protect what we had i.e. the win against Villa.  Against Leeds he brought on S Armstrong about 5 mins after we scored and before Leeds made any subs.  He might not get them all right but to say he isn't able to do it is wrong.

[Alan Sugarfree]

52 minutes ago, Wurzel said:

Article in The Athletic recently pointed out how we always have a player go down around the 60 minute mark and whilst he's being treated the rest of the team grab a drink in a group whilst RH gives out new instructions. I had noticed myself we do it most games but not the coincidental timing. I had to laugh when I looked at the clock as Tella went down, he timed it to the second 🤣

Are the instructions, “switch off now lads and give them a chance the last 30 here”

[Tank]

It's time somebody said this, Redmond is playing the football we all know he is capable of these days. We are slowly gravitating to where we belong this season, middle of the table.

I'll be satisfied wi' that. 

[LuckyNumber7]

I was caught out by the 7.30 ko so missed the first twelve minutes, but from when I tuned in we were the better side for the first half, aside from Edouard's chance Palace barely threatened. Second half was better than what we've become used to recently and was pretty even, so frustrating to again give up the lead but a draw was a fair result. They have better players on the whole (Gallagher is class) and their bench options were way stronger than ours and have only lost once at home this season.

Didn't think anyone played badly (well Djenepo) so a bit confused at the negativity towards some, thought Lyanco did ok (not brilliant) and Tino had his best game for a few weeks imo. Aside from the first goal Caballero was much better than the Arsenal game.

Broja is clearly our best striker right now, wish there was some way we could make his move permanent but that seems very unlikely. If he's fit he needs to start as he is a real handful for the opposition. Tella is lively but still lacking in end product.

Respect the point, but we really need a win against Brentford. That's a big game now.

[S-Clarke]

11 minutes ago, Tank said:

It's time somebody said this, Redmond is playing the football we all know he is capable of these days. We are slowly gravitating to where we belong this season, middle of the table.

I'll be satisfied wi' that. 

I thought he was fairly frustrating last night, but I'd agree in that over the course of the season he has been our best 'number 10' by an absolute mile. Granted, the standard isn't too high, but credit where it's due.

Mid-table would be a great effort, I think think we need to align our expectations to be battling relegation for most though - but hopefully have enough to pull away come the end.

[Minsk]

Fully deserved the draw and thought it was a fair result. Couple of cracking goals for us and, again, something annoying about both of theirs. For their first I thought Romeu was fouled in the build up. For their second had Willy not saved Edouard's shot with his foot and it had gone in the goal would (or should have been) chalked off as the ball hit his hand before he took the shot. That said, better defending and we stop both those goals anyway.

[Mystic Force]

Only positive I can take out of this is that Palace had the decency to equalize earlier than 90min +5

[cloggy saint]

Is this result points gained after being behind or points dropped from a winning position? This is going to confuse the hell out of some people here.

[Dellman]

1 hour ago, Tank said:

It's time somebody said this, Redmond is playing the football we all know he is capable of these days. We are slowly gravitating to where we belong this season, middle of the table.

I'll be satisfied wi' that. 

Yes, it is time someone said that. He has been maligned on this Forum, like FF before him, to such an extent that I wonder 'are these people supporters or aliens from down the road'

[Ldnsaint]

Good point, fair result.

Confident we'd have won that if we had Adams fit 

[Convict Colony]

I think all of our inside forwards are non goalscoring and I find all of them annoying as they could write a article on taking the wrong decision when in a goal scoring position.

The last one who gave me hope he could score was Armstrong but he only plays for Scotland nowadays.

So far Redmond, Moi, Tella, Walcott, Moussa have contributed 1 goal this season in the EPL.

[Charlie Wayman]

Watching Saints these days has become very unappealing, there is a boring familiarity about the way we play and the inevitability of the outcomes. It is so predictable that any hope of a change of fortunes has evaporated. So it proved again last night. 

[beancounter saint]

2 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Watching Saints these days has become very unappealing, there is a boring familiarity about the way we play and the inevitability of the outcomes. It is so predictable that any hope of a change of fortunes has evaporated. So it proved again last night. 

Obviously disappointing to go from winning to a draw in the end last night but I thought it was an entertaining game of football and Saints maintained the standard and energy levels much better than in most games this season

[sibster]

18 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Exactly. He made the initial save.

To be honest, if he hadn't saved it the goal might not have been scored as the initial shot looked like it was going wide. His save slowed the ball and laid it on a plate for Ayew. I put that down as bad luck rather than poor goalkeeping! 

[FboroSaint21]

18 hours ago, Hawkswood said:

How was it mate ? Cant beat a decent away game.

Was a great atmosphere, lost my voice, view was interesting (not a fan of the massive gantry which sits above the AW stand), trains all problematic so got home around midnight and yet again would have been good to hold out for the win but taking a point at Palace wasn't a bad result.

All in all a very successful and entertaining first away game.

As a plus - i'm still yet to see Saints lose live (lots of draws and 2 wins but no losses!)

[qwertyell]

Thought we were a bit of a rabble, to be honest. Two brilliant pieces of individual skill glossed over a very disjointed, disorganised, chaotic performance.

There was a 10-15 minute period at the back end of the first half where we looked like a side that vaguely knew what they were trying to do (after a terrible start to the game), but in the second half it was all last ditch defending, panicky clearances, no composure in possession, cheap turnovers, and waiting for the inevitable Palace equaliser. We didn't create anything.

The plan, if there was one, was to hope Tella could sprint the length of the pitch on the counter attack. Oh, and the inept long throw routine from Salisu that keeps threatening to catch our opponents out with it's comical shiteness.

Still, a point is a point regardless of how messily it came about.

We don't look like much of a team, though.

[Dellman]

1 hour ago, qwertyell said:

Thought we were a bit of a rabble, to be honest. Two brilliant pieces of individual skill glossed over a very disjointed, disorganised, chaotic performance.

There was a 10-15 minute period at the back end of the first half where we looked like a side that vaguely knew what they were trying to do (after a terrible start to the game), but in the second half it was all last ditch defending, panicky clearances, no composure in possession, cheap turnovers, and waiting for the inevitable Palace equaliser. We didn't create anything.

The plan, if there was one, was to hope Tella could sprint the length of the pitch on the counter attack. Oh, and the inept long throw routine from Salisu that keeps threatening to catch our opponents out with it's comical shiteness.

Still, a point is a point regardless of how messily it came about.

We don't look like much of a team, though.

Bit gloomy, not the match I saw. Palace are a good side this year and we came out of it with a lot of credit.

[SaintSteve]

1 hour ago, qwertyell said:

Thought we were a bit of a rabble, to be honest. Two brilliant pieces of individual skill glossed over a very disjointed, disorganised, chaotic performance.

There was a 10-15 minute period at the back end of the first half where we looked like a side that vaguely knew what they were trying to do (after a terrible start to the game), but in the second half it was all last ditch defending, panicky clearances, no composure in possession, cheap turnovers, and waiting for the inevitable Palace equaliser. We didn't create anything.

The plan, if there was one, was to hope Tella could sprint the length of the pitch on the counter attack. Oh, and the inept long throw routine from Salisu that keeps threatening to catch our opponents out with it's comical shiteness.

Still, a point is a point regardless of how messily it came about.

We don't look like much of a team, though.

That was my impression, albeit watching on a live stream. The first half hour was shambolic, and although we scored twice, it was through individual brilliance rather than any  great build-up. We have a major issue in the creation department, our so called No 10s don’t score or create and so the pressure is on the forwards to create from nothing. Ings was competent in that area but Armstrong/Adams will struggle.. luckily we have a short term solution in Broja.

[davefizzy14]

Very happy with the point we got from last night's game  Prowsey and Brojas goals were sublime. Broja really is the real deal, KWP,Tella, Tino and Salisu very good last night too Willy made two or three very good stops and his distribution is top draw

Edited 16 December, 2021 by davefizzy14

[saintquin]

20 hours ago, manji said:

Rubbish at corners though.

Or the rest of the players are rubbish at attacking the ball from our corners.

I'm not to sure which one is the problem though!

[Charlie Wayman]

2 hours ago, qwertyell said:

Thought we were a bit of a rabble, to be honest. Two brilliant pieces of individual skill glossed over a very disjointed, disorganised, chaotic performance.

There was a 10-15 minute period at the back end of the first half where we looked like a side that vaguely knew what they were trying to do (after a terrible start to the game), but in the second half it was all last ditch defending, panicky clearances, no composure in possession, cheap turnovers, and waiting for the inevitable Palace equaliser. We didn't create anything.

The plan, if there was one, was to hope Tella could sprint the length of the pitch on the counter attack. Oh, and the inept long throw routine from Salisu that keeps threatening to catch our opponents out with it's comical shiteness.

Still, a point is a point regardless of how messily it came about.

We don't look like much of a team, though.

Spot on. Couldn't have described last night's performance any better.

[derry]

Crystal Palace's first goal was worse than a silly pass from Salisu towards Lyanco. Run it back a bit, we had a good attack down the left, Tella and I think Redmond had good position near the corner, instead of pressing on with the attack the ball was recycled backwards into our half, Hughes upended Romeu the rest was poor. We didn't need to give up a good attacking position, worst case, attack the goal line and win a corner. We often play the ball backwards from good attacking positions invariably finding JWP who virtually always plays it further back sometimes to the goalkeeper. Does nobody realise that we are doing the oppositions defensive job for them by being obsessed with possession. We have to be braver in the final third and press attacks home to a conclusion.

Edited 16 December, 2021 by derry

[Chez]

20 hours ago, Gingeletiss said:

How the hell does he get to impress, if he doesn’t get picked. Sorry but having a right back at the left back position, does not make sense, KWP is not left footed, and imho weakens us on the left.

the manager watches the players in training every day playing attack vs defence and full 11 v 11 stuff. If he isn't dominating opponents or even preventing attackers doing their stuff (with our limited attack) then why trust him to do it on match day against better players? 

He's played games too. Has he impressed you in those games? He ain't impressed me.  Passive is how I would describe his displays so far.

Having a left footed left back is better than right footer playing there. But that doesn't mean we are better off with Perraud. KWP is the superior player, currently. Its frustrating watching him at left back though I must admit.

If Perraud is any good he will force his way into the side. If not, then questions need to be asked about our scouting.

 

[Chez]

4 hours ago, qwertyell said:

Thought we were a bit of a rabble, to be honest. Two brilliant pieces of individual skill glossed over a very disjointed, disorganised, chaotic performance.

There was a 10-15 minute period at the back end of the first half where we looked like a side that vaguely knew what they were trying to do (after a terrible start to the game), but in the second half it was all last ditch defending, panicky clearances, no composure in possession, cheap turnovers, and waiting for the inevitable Palace equaliser. We didn't create anything.

The plan, if there was one, was to hope Tella could sprint the length of the pitch on the counter attack. Oh, and the inept long throw routine from Salisu that keeps threatening to catch our opponents out with it's comical shiteness.

Still, a point is a point regardless of how messily it came about.

We don't look like much of a team, though.

pretty fair assessment. Don't score those brilliant out of nothing goals and pretty much everyone would be going stir crazy. Very happy to get a point. Not happy with the performance. There will be days when we play better and opponents will score the out of the blue goals, so will take the point and hope for better.

[Streaky]

4 minutes ago, Chez said:

the manager watches the players in training every day playing attack vs defence and full 11 v 11 stuff. If he isn't dominating opponents or even preventing attackers doing their stuff (with our limited attack) then why trust him to do it on match day against better players? 

He's played games too. Has he impressed you in those games? He ain't impressed me.  Passive is how I would describe his displays so far.

Having a left footed left back is better than right footer playing there. But that doesn't mean we are better off with Perraud. KWP is the superior player, currently. Its frustrating watching him at left back though I must admit.

If Perraud is any good he will force his way into the side. If not, then questions need to be asked about our scouting.

 

The only question needing to be asked is why hassenhuttl does see what everyone else sees. Perraud is hardly going to improve sat on the bench and has done no worse than 7 or 8 in the saints team that play every week. Kwp is ok at lb but with no left foot it's easy for the opposition when he creates no width.

Livramento has been superb but at his age even his performances are starting to deteriorate, he's tired after 60 mins every game. Perraud should at least be playing 1 in 3 games, would imagine he's quite pissed off with hardly getting a look in and its not what he was promised before he signed.

 

 

[Dellman]

1 hour ago, Streaky said:

The only question needing to be asked is why hassenhuttl does see what everyone else sees. Perraud is hardly going to improve sat on the bench and has done no worse than 7 or 8 in the saints team that play every week. Kwp is ok at lb but with no left foot it's easy for the opposition when he creates no width.

Livramento has been superb but at his age even his performances are starting to deteriorate, he's tired after 60 mins every game. Perraud should at least be playing 1 in 3 games, would imagine he's quite pissed off with hardly getting a look in and its not what he was promised before he signed.

 

 

Do we know what he was promised before he signed? He may have expected to play every match but that is a different matter.

[Teddeer]

3 hours ago, derry said:

Crystal Palace's first goal was worse than a silly pass from Salisu towards Lyanco. Run it back a bit, we had a good attack down the left, Tella and I think Redmond had good position near the corner, instead of pressing on with the attack the ball was recycled backwards into our half, Hughes upended Romeu the rest was poor. We didn't need to give up a good attacking position, worst case, attack the goal line and win a corner. We often play the ball backwards from good attacking positions invariably finding JWP who virtually always plays it further back sometimes to the goalkeeper. Does nobody realise that we are doing the oppositions defensive job for them by being obsessed with possession. We have to be braver in the final third and press attacks home to a conclusion.

Good points. It baffles me when we work a promising attacking situation and then fail to capitalise by taking the supposed safe option and playing back into our own half. Why work a good situation and then waste that attack and the ground gained by not being brave. If we're going to end up giving the ball away let's at least do it as far away from our goal as possible and, you never know, the braver option might lead to a chance or a goal. It frustrates the hell out of me because we do it time and time again. Stop recycling the ball for the sake of it and, instead, try something that just might hurt the opposition.