COVID and Football (Merged)

[Whitey Grandad]

45 minutes ago, JRM said:

You've digested far too much fear Grandad. "Virus breeder" my goodness. Hope you're not lucky enough to have young kids in the family who might want to spend time with you.  

I'm not afraid. Far from it. But neither do I want to take unnecessary risks. Anyone who is unvaccinated is a danger to society. I don't care if they are a danger to themselves. How do you think this infection spreads if it's not from those who are themselves infected?

And yes, I do have youngsters in the family who I am happy to spend as much time with as possible. Especially so since they are all vaccinated except for the nine year old who caught the disease a few weeks ago. He was off colour for a few hours and was then bouncing all over the furniture during his isolation period. Neither his mum, dad, 15 year old sister nor 14 year old brother caught it off him but of course, they had all been vaccinated.

[Whitey Grandad]

49 minutes ago, magnet said:

you have seen all the players collapsing from myocarditis them? Don't think they'd agree with you...

How on earth do you now it's myocarditis? You haven't got the slightest clue about their medical conditions.

[whelk]

49 minutes ago, JRM said:

Spend some time reading about various cases where Pfizer have had to pay large fines.... corner cutting, poor ethics..but sure put all your faith in them,  that's up to you, just leave other people alone. 

Absolutely happy to leave you alone and don’t agree with mandating vaccines but also don’t cry when we don’t allow you out to have fun or travel on a plane. And if you get seriously ill I’d love you to get sent the bill

[Whitey Grandad]

48 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

But this is wrong though isn't it? There is no "end" to virus for you to prolong short of the population achieving effective immunity. This virus is going to spread through the population until we develop that effective immunity, whilst in parallel the virus will mutate to be less severe. We are choosing to prolong the virus by delaying spread, seeking to minimise the chance for our populations to gain any natural immunity (despite the very high average survivability rate), and waste time and resources in an futile effort to prevent mutations - i.e. hanging our hat firmly on full vaccine dependence. That also ignores the fact that that natural immunity provides longer lasting and more effective protection compared to the vaccines.

If for example you took the opposite scenario to full vaccine dependence (which i take to be what you champion), i.e. everyone getting natural immunity, the country would get better future protection - Now obviously that scenario would mean you don't vaccinate those vulnerable to the virus, which would equate to more deaths - and isn't something people advocate obviously.

However, there is clearly an argument to be made for following an approach between the two, i.e. allowing a less severe strand (like Omicron) to spread whilst the most vulnerable are best protected by vaccines - If the main spreader groups (schoolkids/students/young professionals etc - who aren't under any real risk from covid) get natural immunity, it will serve the country far better in the long run compared to our present strategy of pure reliance on vaccines (that seemingly last 6months, offer only partial protection, and become ineffective after a few mutations/variations.) That's less debt for the country, a shorter pandemic long term, shorter waiting lists for the nhs, better education provision, less impact on services etc. It does unfortunately mean that the money currently lined up for the pockets of big pharma goes back into industries such as travel and transport, leisure and hospitality, and the plethora of businesses that serve office centres etc.

Regardless of your take on whether you pursue full vaccine dependence, the point of this thread is covid passports. For me, the vaccines don't offer a long lasting protection, - It's no worse than acquired immunity

they don't impact on viral loads for future transmission - er, yes they do

 and they don't stop people catching covid - er, yes they do. Not 100% perhaps but very efectively

. But they do reduce severe reactions which is particularly beneficial in vulnerable groups. In conclusion though, i would say that there simply isn't a strong enough argument to justify infringing civil liberties by bringing in increased digital surveillance - Where is that?

and what amounts to "compliance" controls on access work/education/entertainment  - We already have a number of restrictions on these

etc. - This isn't China and I have no interest in us adopting anything like their measures - Now... people can chose to protect themselves with the vaccines, and they can personally chose to take precautions to mitigate their risk exposure (masks  /personal hygiene measures /avoidance), but there is no, "zero covid" scenario and they can catch it just as readily off of a vaccinated person. - no they can't. That's the whole point

No one should have the right to stop other people living their lives - nobody is stopping them (and actively discriminate against them) because you don't agree with their medical choices 🤷‍♂️. The vaccine some want to force on everyone else either works or it doesn't - of cousrse it works. The evidence is there in  the hundreds of millions who have been protected

But you've got to let other people have the right to reach their own decisions, take their own risks, and live their lives. It is beyond hypocritical to take a vaccine to protect yourself, and then expect other people to follow your decision because you don't trust the vaccine 🤔 - They don't have to have the vaccine. They just have to keep away from society and nt be a danger to others
 

There are a lot of fals assumptions in there.

[LuckyNumber7]

30 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I'm not afraid. Far from it. But neither do I want to take unnecessary risks. Anyone who is unvaccinated is a danger to society.

Prejudiced nonsense.

The vaccines help prevent serious illness, they do not stop you catching or spreading covid.

Funny how France has just closed all it's nightclubs for four weeks due to a spike in cases, despite only vaccinated people being allowed in.

[Matthew Le God]

41 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Prejudiced nonsense.

The vaccines help prevent serious illness, they do not stop you catching or spreading covid.

Public Health England say differently...

"A single dose of a coronavirus vaccine can reduce household transmission of the virus by up to half, a study shows.

Those given a first dose of either the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccines - and who became infected three weeks later - were between 38% and 49% less likely to pass the virus on than unvaccinated people, PHE found."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56904993.amp

Edited 9 December, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[JRM]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I'm not afraid. Far from it. But neither do I want to take unnecessary risks. Anyone who is unvaccinated is a danger to society. I don't care if they are a danger to themselves. How do you think this infection spreads if it's not from those who are themselves infected?

And yes, I do have youngsters in the family who I am happy to spend as much time with as possible. Especially so since they are all vaccinated except for the nine year old who caught the disease a few weeks ago. He was off colour for a few hours and was then bouncing all over the furniture during his isolation period. Neither his mum, dad, 15 year old sister nor 14 year old brother caught it off him but of course, they had all been vaccinated.

So their vaccine protected them but you don't trust yours to protect you? Plus there are loads of vaccinated people testing positive, you need to drop your danger to society rhetoric. You're more likely to be sat next to a vaccinated person with covid that a non vaccinated person. 

Edited 9 December, 2021 by JRM

[JRM]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Absolutely happy to leave you alone and don’t agree with mandating vaccines but also don’t cry when we don’t allow you out to have fun or travel on a plane. And if you get seriously ill I’d love you to get sent the bill

"When we don't allow you" falling into that trap again, us against them. Makes you feel powerful? bet you're willing the unvaccinated to get ill just to so you can grin and say I told you so. Nasty. 

[JRM]

10 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Public health England say differently...

"A single dose of a coronavirus vaccine can reduce household transmission of the virus by up to half, a study shows.

Those given a first dose of either the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccines - and who became infected three weeks later - were between 38% and 49% less likely to pass the virus on than unvaccinated people, PHE found."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56904993.amp

That's great, with so many people vaccinated we can get rid of all the restrictions as it works so well? 

What happened to AstraZeneca? Seems to have disappeared. 

[Matthew Le God]

1 hour ago, JRM said:

That's great, with so many people vaccinated we can get rid of all the restrictions as it works so well? 

That is a bizarre and fundamentally flawed line you are going with there. It helping doesn't mean it completely solves the issue to the extent where nothing else is needed. A 38% to 49% decrease in transmission after only one dose clearly makes it worthwhile getting to benefit to both yourself and the society you live in. 

Edited 9 December, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[LuckyNumber7]

6 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Public Health England say differently...

"A single dose of a coronavirus vaccine can reduce household transmission of the virus by up to half, a study shows.

Those given a first dose of either the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccines - and who became infected three weeks later - were between 38% and 49% less likely to pass the virus on than unvaccinated people, PHE found."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56904993.amp

Even if that's correct, put another way it means they are between 51% and 62% as likely to pass it on as unvaccinated, and that is three weeks after having the vaccine, when its effects are at their strongest. The numbers will wane with time.

Vaccine passports are not only an affront on our freedom, they are a complete waste of time. Vaccinated people are plenty capable of passing it on.

 

[John Boy Saint]

1 minute ago, JRM said:

That's great, with so many people vaccinated we can get rid of all the restrictions as it works so well? 

What happened to AstraZeneca? Seems to have disappeared. 

When I got my booster last week - I was told that despite having 2 lots of AZ previously, I would be having  Moderna this time mostly because the science thinks a bit of mixing boosts the system. But then they said that AZ was in shorter supply because most of it is being sent abroad due to it being the most transportable as it doesn't need to be kept super cold like Pfizer.  

[Matthew Le God]

Just now, LuckyNumber7 said:

Even if that's correct, put another way it means they are between 51% and 62% as likely to pass it on as unvaccinated, and that is three weeks after having the vaccine, when its effects are at their strongest. The numbers will wane with time.

Vaccine passports are not only an affront on our freedom, they are a complete waste of time. Vaccinated people are plenty capable of passing it on.

You clearly haven't read or understood that article. The study shows vaccinated people are significantly less likely to be causes of transmission,  not more likely. On what scientific peer reviewed evidence is your claim based?

[Matthew Le God]

9 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Vaccine passports are not only an affront on our freedom, they are a complete waste of time. Vaccinated people are plenty capable of passing it on.

What are you being prevented from doing due to not using a vaccine passport?

A negative test circumvents the need for a vaccine passport. What possible reason is there for you not to take a test? Do you really not give a shit about the society you live in?

Edited 9 December, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[LuckyNumber7]

1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

You clearly haven't read or understood that article. The study shows vaccinated people are significantly less likely to be causes of transmission,  not more likely. On what scientific peer reviewed evidence is your claim based?

My original post said the vaccine does not stop you passing covid on, your reply does not counter that.

between 38% and 49% less likely to pass the virus on than unvaccinated people, PHE found."

Unless that is 100% then they can still pass it on. It's not even close.

If every single person in the country got vaccinated covid would still circle. It is here forever and I'm afraid some people will be living in fear forever.

[Matthew Le God]

12 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

My original post said the vaccine does not stop you passing covid on, your reply does not counter that.

It does very much counter it! You said...

"The vaccines help prevent serious illness, they do not stop you catching or spreading covid."

 A reduction in transmission is a counter, and that is what the study/article shows.

Edited 9 December, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Saint_clark]

36 minutes ago, JRM said:

That's great, with so many people vaccinated we can get rid of all the restrictions as it works so well? 

What happened to AstraZeneca? Seems to have disappeared. 

As the cheapest and easiest to transport, Astrazeneca is the one we are donating to poorer countries. 

[LiberalCommunist]

Antibodies help. Why are we discounting them?

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Well that's me out for the Brentford game. Positive PCR test came back today. Self isolation for the next 10 days. Good luck everyone trying to get into St Marys!

[Saint_clark]

2 minutes ago, LiberalCommunist said:

Antibodies help. Why are we discounting them?

Vaccines create antibodies?

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Well that's me out for the Brentford game. Positive PCR test came back today. Self isolation for the next 10 days. Good luck everyone trying to get into St Marys!

When did you take test, if yesterday your isolation  run out midnight Fri. 

Edited 9 December, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[LiberalCommunist]

Getting covid, and recovering does. 

[Saint_clark]

Just now, LiberalCommunist said:

Getting covid, and recovering does. 

Indeed, but surely it's better to create antibodies from the vaccine with none of the risk from Covid, then get Covid and be safe because of the vaccine and then have more antibodies?

[whelk]

45 minutes ago, JRM said:

"When we don't allow you" falling into that trap again, us against them. Makes you feel powerful? bet you're willing the unvaccinated to get ill just to so you can grin and say I told you so. Nasty. 

Yeah brings me great joy seeing thick cunts having no fun. 

[saintmonkey1979]

2 minutes ago, LiberalCommunist said:

Getting covid, and recovering does. 

You say this, but after i caught it and recovered, despite having had the 1st vaccine 6 days before my positive test, my antibodies were surprisingly low. This was confirmed when I went to donate plasma . I didn't have enough antibodies to be able to continue donating. 

 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

3 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

When did you take test, if yesterday your isolation  run out midnight Fri. 

The text said until the 18th December, including that date

[JRM]

21 minutes ago, John Boy Saint said:

When I got my booster last week - I was told that despite having 2 lots of AZ previously, I would be having  Moderna this time mostly because the science thinks a bit of mixing boosts the system. But then they said that AZ was in shorter supply because most of it is being sent abroad due to it being the most transportable as it doesn't need to be kept super cold like Pfizer.  

It's funny as they said people who had AZ should top up with Pfizer but not the other way round, there was a point in the summer when they stopped AZ for u40s in the UK on safety grounds and its gradually disappeared since then, maybe we've done a deal and shipped it out. Not sure how'd I'd have felt as a 40 year old to have that when they wouldn't give it to someone a few months younger. 

Personally I'd never tell someone they should or shouldn't have it, same with masks do what works best for you. 

I'll tell you what I do know, Whitty, Valance etc have used what they later admitted were vastly exaggerated worst case scenario figures to justify previous lockdowns, I know the media never properly cross examined them on it, numbers are reported as fact at the Time in order to fulfill the message that the behaviour scientists want to control people. 

[Lighthouse]

23 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

If every single person in the country got vaccinated covid would still circle.

That's total conjecture and based on no information at all. Just a wild assumption. The infection level has fluctuated around a similar for about 4 months now, despite 12% of adults being completely unvaccinated. If everyone WAS vaccinated, the chances are the R number would drop significantly and it may well go away, like every other disease we've successfully vaccinated against.

23 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

It is here forever and I'm afraid some people will be living in fear forever.

Complete myth. Anti vaxxers like to see themselves as some sort of freedom fighter, the only ones who are awake to the real information and willing to stand up to some sort of tyrannical government. The only people living in fear are those who are clinically vulnerable - people who's life anti-vaxxers are unwilling to help save because their 'rights' are more important.

Everyone else is bored. Bored of this virus and bored of the fact that we are facing more restrictions because hospitals are filling up with unvaccinated idiots.

[JRM]

12 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

As the cheapest and easiest to transport, Astrazeneca is the one we are donating to poorer countries. 

Nothing to do with this then? 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57021738

[Lord Duckhunter]

Just now, Lee On Solent Saint said:

The text said until the 18th December, including that date

I took my test on a Thursday and had notification on the Friday. My release was Sat at midnight, 10 days after the test rather than 10 days after the result. Maybe it’s changed, but that was defo my timescales. 
 

Good luck to you, hope it’s not too bad. 

[JRM]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

Yeah brings me great joy seeing thick cunts having no fun. 

Problem with willing ill health on others is eventually karma will catch up with you.  

[Saint_clark]

3 minutes ago, JRM said:

Nothing to do with this then? 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57021738

No, because if you actually look into it beyond the media representation there isn't much difference between the vaccines in terms of those side effects. In fact, I'd wager if you look at most people who received an injection the risk of blood clots is roughly the same.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

8 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I took my test on a Thursday and had notification on the Friday. My release was Sat at midnight, 10 days after the test rather than 10 days after the result. Maybe it’s changed, but that was defo my timescales. 
 

Good luck to you, hope it’s not too bad. 

Cheers! Not showing any symptoms yet. Will hope that continues!

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, JRM said:

So their vaccine protected them but you don't trust yours to protect you? Plus there are loads of vaccinated people testing positive, you need to drop your danger to society rhetoric. You're more likely to be sat next to a vaccinated person with covid that a non vaccinated person. 

That’s not true.

[Whitey Grandad]

11 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

No, because if you actually look into it beyond the media representation there isn't much difference between the vaccines in terms of those side effects. In fact, I'd wager if you look at most people who received an injection the risk of blood clots is roughly the same.

Any injection has a risk of blood clots. In fact, not having an injection carries a risk of blood clots.

[JRM]

13 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

No, because if you actually look into it beyond the media representation there isn't much difference between the vaccines in terms of those side effects. In fact, I'd wager if you look at most people who received an injection the risk of blood clots is roughly the same.

So why did they stop giving this one to u40s? 

[Lighthouse]

6 minutes ago, JRM said:

So why did they stop giving this one to u40s? 

Because they were being extra, extra, extra cautious because they know if there's any hint of health risks associated with the vaccine - even if they're as likely as a blood clot from eating a burger or catching a flight - people like you will use it as 'evidence' against them. 

[JRM]

13 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

That’s not true.

So the thousands of vaccinated people testing positive each day don't worry you, you'd sit next to one of them, but a healthy unvaccinated person is a "danger to society" (your words) I respect your opinion but think you've lost it on this one. 

[JRM]

5 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Because they were being extra, extra, extra cautious because they know if there's any hint of health risks associated with the vaccine - even if they're as likely as a blood clot from eating a burger or catching a flight - people like you will use it as 'evidence' against them. 

Ah of course. Nothing to see here, please move along. 

(Quick get that AZ shipped to the third world,  half price) 

[JRM]

7 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Because they were being extra, extra, extra cautious because they know if there's any hint of health risks associated with the vaccine - even if they're as likely as a blood clot from eating a burger or catching a flight - people like you will use it as 'evidence' against them. 

And "people like me" - once again I have never told anyone to not get the vaccine, its completely your choice and I sincerely hope it works well. I'm against coercion, mandates, behavioural scientists dictating govt policy, philanthropic billionaires meddling on health policy that conflicts with their own investment gains. I am in favour of less state control of peoples lives, its not warranted. The direction of travel we are going in is not a good one. 

[East Kent Saint]

1 hour ago, John Boy Saint said:

When I got my booster last week - I was told that despite having 2 lots of AZ previously, I would be having  Moderna this time mostly because the science thinks a bit of mixing boosts the system. But then they said that AZ was in shorter supply because most of it is being sent abroad due to it being the most transportable as it doesn't need to be kept super cold like Pfizer.  

Had my booster in Nov , was offered a choice of AZ or Pfizer , chose Pfizer as apparently mixing them up gives better protection.

[Warriorsaint]

7 hours ago, JustinR said:

Then ban chips, smoking, cars and wine. 

No

[Warriorsaint]

Quite happy for the virus spreaders to be treated differently.

Much better for the obstinate few to be quarantined and let the rest of us get on with our lives.

coming to the conclusion that the tin hat wearers are prolonging this pandemic so Im quite happy fir them to mix among themselves in their own clubs, shops and offices.

Heck give them their own island, say the Isle of Wight where they can all live in their freedom utopia.

Have you noticed its always the selfish me, me, me types who shout the loudest even thought they are the tiniest minority.

Go away conspiracy nuts, get vaxxed and shut up and let the rest of us get back to normality.

[Warriorsaint]

21 minutes ago, JRM said:

So the thousands of vaccinated people testing positive each day don't worry you, you'd sit next to one of them, but a healthy unvaccinated person is a "danger to society" (your words) I respect your opinion but think you've lost it on this one. 

The unvaxed are the danger

[Whitey Grandad]

19 minutes ago, JRM said:

So the thousands of vaccinated people testing positive each day don't worry you, you'd sit next to one of them, but a healthy unvaccinated person is a "danger to society" (your words) I respect your opinion but think you've lost it on this one. 

And there I have you. I work with only one other person, and he is unvaccinated. So I am extremely unlikely to sit next to a person who is vaccinated and who has Covid.

Of the fifty thousand who are testing positive each day how many are unvaccinated?

You need to consider the numbers and the percentages.

[JRM]

1 minute ago, Warriorsaint said:

The unvaxed are the danger

 

[Billy the Kidd]

4 minutes ago, Warriorsaint said:

Quite happy for the virus spreaders to be treated differently.

Much better for the obstinate few to be quarantined and let the rest of us get on with our lives.

coming to the conclusion that the tin hat wearers are prolonging this pandemic so Im quite happy fir them to mix among themselves in their own clubs, shops and offices.

Heck give them their own island, say the Isle of Wight where they can all live in their freedom utopia.

Have you noticed its always the selfish me, me, me types who shout the loudest even thought they are the tiniest minority.

Go away conspiracy nuts, get vaxxed and shut up and let the rest of us get back to normality.

Joker 🤣

You see, i am double jabbed, and waiting for an invite for my booster.

I dont tell people not to get vaccinated.

I am not a conspiracy theorist.

But suggesting people who dont vaccinate should be treated differently is mental, inhumane, and is actually anti-life.

Doesn’t make people obstinate, just makes you come across as pious and pretty ill educated.

[Billy the Kidd]

5 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

And there I have you. I work with only one other person, and he is unvaccinated. So I am extremely unlikely to sit next to a person who is vaccinated and who has Covid.

Of the fifty thousand who are testing positive each day how many are unvaccinated?

You need to consider the numbers and the percentages.

How many of the 50k a day who are CoVid positive after a test are unwell?

Not a dig, I’m genuinely interested, as it is something I dont believe I ever have found a stat for that. Out of the positive cases each day, how many are feeling poorly, how many of them need hospital treatment. 

It just seems the only news we get fed are shock headlines, not all that much useful data.

[JRM]

7 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Joker 🤣

You see, i am double jabbed, and waiting for an invite for my booster.

I dont tell people not to get vaccinated.

I am not a conspiracy theorist.

But suggesting people who dont vaccinate should be treated differently is mental, inhumane, and is actually anti-life.

Doesn’t make people obstinate, just makes you come across as pious and pretty ill educated.

If nothing else the last two years have been a fascinating experiment in human behaviour. A global pandemic of Covid hysteria driven by a coordinated fear campaign in the media. 

[JRM]

19 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

And there I have you. I work with only one other person, and he is unvaccinated. So I am extremely unlikely to sit next to a person who is vaccinated and who has Covid.

Of the fifty thousand who are testing positive each day how many are unvaccinated?

You need to consider the numbers and the percentages.

I mean at football, not who you work with.