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COVID and Football (Merged)


Chris cooper
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8 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Once delta is completely out of the picture and the anti virals are rolled out it’s time to do away with mass testing and isolation and get on with life. 

Until the next variant which is the most transmissible we’ve had yet by up to 60% honestly it is and the vaccines don’t work against it and 10000 a day will die with 3 million infections a day as its trebling every two days so get your jabs. 

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1 hour ago, East Kent Saint said:

As with all stats it depends on what criteria is used to produce them . Death rates are people who have tested positive within 28 days of death . As said on here it includes people who were on the way out before they tested positive or caught covid while being treated in hospital for other illnesses etc. So the headline stats we are being exposed to require a bit of balance and analysis which is the point of my post.

I don’t disagree with this at all. My only interest is to counter obvious misrepresentations ,from whatever direction. So the problem with some anecdotal stuff is not about questioning the particular report, but about the weight that these kind of reports are given in the press and media, when other data suggests that they might well be the exception rather than the rule. The “ 90% in hospital are unvaxxed “ stat has been used by a variety of high profile figures very recently including Hilary Jones and Dominic Raab, it hasn’t been properly challenged and it is hugely misleading, based as it is on a tiny number of very exceptional treatments.

Getting into nuance in the data is not somethingI want  to do, but happy to accept that whatever data we use is open to different interpretation to the one we might put on it. The 28 day thing is indeed arbitrary , and can lead to mis - attribution of cause of death . And this kind of issues applies throughout the data. But I do think we need to try to get the best use of the best available data that we have , and right now, the UKHSA vaccine Surveillance report is that kind of data. It does need interpretation, and in the case of the tables for cases , hospitalisations and deaths some  simple addition to obtain , for example, totals for vaxxed and unvaxxed. We are all going to disagree , to a greater or lesser extent, on interpretation.

 

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1 hour ago, East Kent Saint said:

As with all stats it depends on what criteria is used to produce them . Death rates are people who have tested positive within 28 days of death . As said on here it includes people who were on the way out before they tested positive or caught covid while being treated in hospital for other illnesses etc. So the headline stats we are being exposed to require a bit of balance and analysis which is the point of my post.

I remember there being a similar stat with the first wave about the number of people that had died with covid had actually been infected whilst in hospital.

Seems criminal that these are reported as 'covid' deaths.

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This'll be the reason why MLG got his booster...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59774795

Quote

Getting jabbed not just for themselves, for ourselves, but for friends and family and everyone we meet.

"And that, after all, is the teaching of Jesus Christ, whose birth is at the heart of this enormous festival - that we should love our neighbours as we love ourselves."

 

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The problem is that the media tends to oversimplify information.  They are ultimately just looking for headlines to get attention.

The deaths within 28 days of a covid test is actually a pretty good indicator of the impact of the pandemic.  There is another figure, which is excess deaths over what was expected.  Actuarial models can predict the number of deaths in a given period and then compare the actual numbers.  The number of deaths within 28 days of a covid test is very close to the excess deaths figure - within 10%.  In the early part of the pandemic the number of deaths recorded from Covid was actually slightly less than the excess deaths figure.  So the argument that 'they would have died anyway' doesnt really hold up.  Some may have, but others died where Covid was the primary cause without being tested.  It evens itself out.

Hope everyone has a great Christmas with family and friends and that 2022 is better than 2021.

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The other good news -  aside from the lower virulence and success of the booster surge - but not featured much in the media is that the therapeutics have come on immensely: nMABS and antivirals reducing progression to severe illness and death by large percentages and came on-stream 16th Dec. 

 

https://www.cas.mhra.gov.uk/ViewandAcknowledgment/ViewAlert.aspx?AlertID=103184

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15 minutes ago, adrian lord said:

The other good news -  aside from the lower virulence and success of the booster surge - but not featured much in the media is that the therapeutics have come on immensely: nMABS and antivirals reducing progression to severe illness and death by large percentages and came on-stream 16th Dec. 

 

https://www.cas.mhra.gov.uk/ViewandAcknowledgment/ViewAlert.aspx?AlertID=103184

The antivirals are good news, though the as yet unapproved here, Pfizer product looks better than the Merck.

The news is less good for the monoclonals which don't work well on the omicron variant.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20211220/New-study-suggests-most-monoclonal-antibody-treatments-are-ineffective-against-Omicron-SARS-CoV-2-variant.aspx

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16 minutes ago, adrian lord said:

The other good news -  aside from the lower virulence and success of the booster surge - but not featured much in the media is that the therapeutics have come on immensely: nMABS and antivirals reducing progression to severe illness and death by large percentages and came on-stream 16th Dec. 

 

https://www.cas.mhra.gov.uk/ViewandAcknowledgment/ViewAlert.aspx?AlertID=103184

It's all good. I expect once we are past this wave it wont be long before it becomes endemic and it will just be like the flu with yearly jabs for those that want it. All depends how it mutates though I suppose.

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44 minutes ago, hackedoff said:

When will this be over and we can get back to winding each other up about how crap our team/club is ?

It already is but people are shitting themselves over a cold and testing to check if they’re Ill even when they’re not

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18 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I searched through the figures in that link that you posted and could find nothing relating to the figures that you quoted.

You need to look at tables 8, 9 and 10 a and b .Look at columns 4 and 7  for vaccinated and unvaccinated and then you have to do the addition yourself , or you can look at  the age groups on their own.

.https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1041593/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-50.pdf

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3 hours ago, Turkish said:

It already is but people are shitting themselves over a cold and testing to check if they’re Ill even when they’re not

A virus so deadly you need to test to see if you even have it. 

The common cold is a form of coronavirus so it's not surprising symptoms of Omicron are the same ! 

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2 hours ago, teamsaint said:

You need to look at tables 8, 9 and 10 a and b .Look at columns 4 and 7  for vaccinated and unvaccinated and then you have to do the addition yourself , or you can look at  the age groups on their own.

.https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1041593/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-50.pdf

“covid attributed deaths“

They weren’t actually that, were they?

Why not refer to Table 11 where the rates of death for the unvaccinated are four times those of the unvaccinated?

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2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

“covid attributed deaths“

They weren’t actually that, were they?

Why not refer to Table 11 where the rates of death for the unvaccinated are four times those of the unvaccinated?


i’m not sure what you would call the numbers for deaths in tables 10 a and b, covid, or covid attributed  ? The  28 day definition, if nothing else, has been consistently used.For the purposes of this discussion  what matters is the proportion of vaxxed and unvaxxed  and in particular with reference to the claims of hospital cases being 90% unvaccinated.

As regards rates of cases and deaths that you refer to  in table 11, as opposed to the absolute numbers in the tables 8 to 10, there is , as the interpretation makes clear I think , a lot of debate among experts  about the number of unvaxxed in the population, making the rates open to very wide interpretation. 
 

Anyway, Happy  Xmas, and lets hope we can forget about this stuff in 2022.

 

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8 hours ago, Turkish said:

With games getting called off all over the place and clubs moaning endlessly it was good to see Leicester players enjoying themselves at the darts. Presumably they won’t be asking for any postponements

I know many have caught covid without being irresponsible but suspect many footballer are the least cautious..Add that to their dreadful vaccination rate and subsequent requirement to self isolate no wonder so many games are called off.

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10 hours ago, Turkish said:

With games getting called off all over the place and clubs moaning endlessly it was good to see Leicester players enjoying themselves at the darts. Presumably they won’t be asking for any postponements

Linking this with the annoying players thread I can only presume it was Vardy or Maddison that Gerwyn Price was asking to be kicked out the crowd for being a prick.

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1 hour ago, The Cat said:

Linking this with the annoying players thread I can only presume it was Vardy or Maddison that Gerwyn Price was asking to be kicked out the crowd for being a prick.

Maddison does come across as a massive prick unfortunately, which is a shame as he is the sort of player I enjoy watching. 

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1 hour ago, redkeith said:

Just seen Liverpool have had a massive Covid outbreak at the same time that their 2 star forwards are of at the AFCON.

Are the two issues related ?????

Their match v Arsenal tomorrow is off but their game v Shrewsbury on sunday goes ahead. So they can field a team for a cup game against a lower league side but cant for a cup game against one in the same division 🤔

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1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Their match v Arsenal tomorrow is off but their game v Shrewsbury on sunday goes ahead. So they can field a team for a cup game against a lower league side but cant for a cup game against one in the same division 🤔

Bit of a piss take when they have fielded a second string eleven for all the previous rounds. Sniff of a cup and suddenly Klopp is all over it

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2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Their match v Arsenal tomorrow is off but their game v Shrewsbury on sunday goes ahead. So they can field a team for a cup game against a lower league side but cant for a cup game against one in the same division 🤔

I guess we’ll see what happens with the game against the Shrews. What I found interesting about calling this one off was this quote from the EFL. We had injuries contributing to our game being called off against Newcastle, now the health of regular club staff and it’s supporters gets assessed on whether a match should go ahead. The system is ripe for abuse.

"Having now fully reviewed the circumstances involved, the League has accepted Liverpool's request after determining, albeit reluctantly, that a postponement was the only option as the club looks to mitigate against the further risk of infection amongst its squad and staff alongside ensuring public health was protected by not travelling from Liverpool to London."

 

Edited by The Kraken
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4 hours ago, East Kent Saint said:

Just seen if you are a tennis No1 you don’t need a vaccine at all , just a doctors note excusing you from the Plebs rules , who’d of thought it , multimillionaire has their own rules …..

He basically told them if you want me to play you let me in, fair play to him, world no. 1 , doesn't need the money so can stick to his principles. 

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4 hours ago, Turkish said:

Their match v Arsenal tomorrow is off but their game v Shrewsbury on sunday goes ahead. So they can field a team for a cup game against a lower league side but cant for a cup game against one in the same division 🤔

When Klopp was moaning about losing Mane and Salah to AFCON I would have bet my house on them having an outbreak tragically during the tournament. 

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2 hours ago, JRM said:

He basically told them if you want me to play you let me in, fair play to him, world no. 1 , doesn't need the money so can stick to his principles. 

Yeah and they rightfully told him to fuck off.

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16 hours ago, East Kent Saint said:

Just seen if you are a tennis No1 you don’t need a vaccine at all , just a doctors note excusing you from the Plebs rules , who’d of thought it , multimillionaire has their own rules …..

It is a shame they never refused entry/deported our cricket team.  There is still time, right?

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9 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Posted this is the Coronavirus thread; Super League are considering a rule whereby teams that cannot fulfil a fixture due to Covid forfeit it as 48-0.

That would certainly start skewing the goal difference if the same approach was taken in football.

What if both teams cannot fulfil the fixture, a 48-48 draw?

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